Slayer

[krelianzg]

When we see Slayer in Far Madding taking orders from one of the Forsaken (Moridin, I think?), he muses that the Forsaken are some of the few who know how to contact him, and that they are the only ones capable of giving him orders, while everyone else in that select group must beg for his services.

 

This makes me wonder, who else would be given the knowledge of how to get in touch with him? And what would they need his services for? It seems to me that Slayer, being the DO's assassin, provides a service that only the Forsaken would be in need of. Any ideas on who else might be included in that group?

 

At first I thought Fain might, since he was the grand-high Darkfriend for awhile, but I'd think if he knew, he would have drawn him out and killed him by now.

[dyring]

When we see Slayer in Far Madding taking orders from one of the Forsaken (Moridin, I think?), he muses that the Forsaken are some of the few who know how to contact him, and that they are the only ones capable of giving him orders, while everyone else in that select group must beg for his services.

 

This makes me wonder, who else would be given the knowledge of how to get in touch with him? And what would they need his services for? It seems to me that Slayer, being the DO's assassin, provides a service that only the Forsaken would be in need of. Any ideas on who else might be included in that group?

 

At first I thought Fain might, since he was the grand-high Darkfriend for awhile, but I'd think if he knew, he would have drawn him out and killed him by now.

Well, there are high level DF spread out around the world, who stand just below the choosen. You could ask Kadere about that, we got a pov where he thinks of how Asmo and lanfear, as Natael and Kei.. (whatever it was lanfear called herself) proved themself as standing jsut below the choosen. Quite possible that some of them would know about slayer(the df´s who actually hold that pos I mean, not asmo and lanfear:p.

 

Oh, btw, Where did you get that Fain was that high among the df´s? Sure, he filled a purpose and got to see thakan´dar, but I doubt he had any position to order otehrs about. Unless its something i´v forgotten?

 

//dyring

 

[krelianzg]

I'm not positive about Fain, but I do seem to recall it being mentioned, possibly by Fain himself in one of his POVs. Plus, we see that Alviarin, who is herself very high up, defer to him when she catches him in the Tower storeroom.

[dyring]

I'm not positive about Fain, but I do seem to recall it being mentioned, possibly by Fain himself in one of his POVs. Plus, we see that Alviarin, who is herself very high up, defer to him when she catches him in the Tower storeroom.

 

Ah, well, that part I reread yesterday, so  feel quite confident saying that she didnt really defer, just unwilling to risk pissing someone higher by stopping him. She kept him held up in flows of air the whole time.

 

He bluffed her, since very very few df´s gets to see thakan´dar, and he described it vividly. Ofcourse, if I remember right he was there only to have his memories sorted through and to change him abit to help him find Rand, but Alviarin don´t know that ofcourse.

 

//dyring

[krelianzg]

Thanks for refreshing my memory on that. I'm still convinced I read something somewhere that placed him pretty high among the DFs, but I can't rule out the possibility that it was imagined.

 

Another thing on Fain, I know he comments on how he'd be dead in a second if he ever ran into one of the Forsaken, but does he know they set Slayer to hunt him, or is he just aware that the Shadow has reason to put a price on his head now?

[Majsju]

Fain knows that Slayer has been ordered to kill him. We see his POV in TSR that he knows Isam is responsible for bringing the shadowspawn there for that very reason.

[elmis]

[small hijack]

 

I don't think it was Moridin who ordered Slayer, but someone else. Probably not a Forsaken since he or she had guarded himself from being recognized, and that from Slayer thought it must be one of them. Is there something we know from the series it's that when a character is 'sure' of something, more often than not, they're wrong. :)

 

Personal guess, Mazrim Taim.

[professorskar]

Yeah, I've found the standard line of thinking amongst most Jordan fans (at least on the internet) is that Taim was ordering Slayer that time.  A Forsaken probably wouldn't have to disguise himself (although, if they didn't want to be found out by Moridin that they were ordering Rand's death, that would give them a good reason to hide), and the fact that Jordan mentions people other than the Forsaken ordering Slayer, Taim would probably be a high enough ranked Darkfriend to be able to get away with it.

 

My question is, just what exactly IS Slayer.  I know he's both Luc and Isam, but I got the impression that, unlike Fain, who is both an amalgam of Mordeth and Fain, that both personalities were still present in Slayer depending on which form he chooses.  But the question is, what happened to Luc and Isam that led them to be combined into Slayer?  Why is he able to move about T'A'R and the real world in the flesh so easily?  Why does he seem to specifically kill wolves in the dream world?  Did the Dark One just give him these powers or what?

 

I think if Jordan were still alive, he'd probably give me a big fat RAFO...in other words, I doubt there's enough information in the books to answer all those questions.

 

But what do you guys think?

[dreago]

Personally, I think Slayer was/is a, err, "wolfbrother", like Perrin, but turned by the Darkhounds(I think the wolves described it as having his heart devoured or something?). That would explain his TAR abilities, and I think Perrin even asked about a "Wolfbrother" being turned by Darkhounds.

[Tyrell]

Why don't we work out what slayer is by elimination? I'll start:

 

Slayer is NOT :

 

a small bightly colored potatoe

a fork

a chicken

a clok

a biscuit

[dreago]

Lol, I don't know maybe he is a potato.

 

But seriously, him being a Shadow-wolfbrother would explain a lot, from his, uh, wolf obsession, to his TAR abilities.

 

Two questions. 1: Does Slayer dream like Perrin, or does he Somehow enter TAR in the flesh? I think that there is a part in one of the books that he leaves TAR into a house or something(when Lan kills a blademaster and Fain tries to kill Rand, and Rand thinks that Lan danced the dance better or something like that). 2: Does he use one body in the real world and the other in TAR? I mean Luc in the real world and Isam in TAR, or vice versa. My rambling is done now.

[dyring]

[small hijack]

 

I don't think it was Moridin who ordered Slayer, but someone else. Probably not a Forsaken since he or she had guarded himself from being recognized, and that from Slayer thought it must be one of them. Is there something we know from the series it's that when a character is 'sure' of something, more often than not, they're wrong. :)

 

Personal guess, Mazrim Taim.

 

Now, I don´t remember the exakt wording or the exakt book, but I´m pretty sure someone will correkt me if I´m wrong ;)

There is a pov where moridin either thinks, or sais to someone "wether Isam manages to kill ... (don´t remember what insulting word he used.) And Moridin is thought to mean Fain.

Anyone around to help me out with what book I remember that from maybe? ;)

 

//dyring

[Mr Ares]

Two questions. 1: Does Slayer dream like Perrin, or does he Somehow enter TAR in the flesh? I think that there is a part in one of the books that he leaves TAR into a house or something(when Lan kills a blademaster and Fain tries to kill Rand, and Rand thinks that Lan danced the dance better or something like that). 2: Does he use one body in the real world and the other in TAR? I mean Luc in the real world and Isam in TAR, or vice versa. My rambling is done now.

Firstly, Slayer's abilities are, at least in party, gifts from Shai'tan (BBHN). Secondly, Slayer can certainly enter T'A'R in the flesh, and it seems he can Dream as well (when Perrin injures Isam in TSR, and Luc runs off injured, seems more likely that Slayer was Dreaming then, rather than went back to camp, stepped out of T'A'R, and then ran off). Thirdly, he can be either body in either world, but he can only transition between bodies when entering or leaving T'A'R.

[Spool]

Can someone explain to me WHO is Isam?  :) I have read the whole series and BWB but I cant remember any place where it explains who Isam is. Thanks

[elmis]

Isam Mandragoran is Lan's cousin, and one of the halves that make up Slayer. Luc Mantear on the other hand is Rands uncle and makes up the other half. How the 'merge' was made is unclear at best, but at least they met some place in the Mountains of Dhoom.

 

Read more about Isam here.

Read more about Luc here.

[Spool]

Thanks. That clears it to me.  :)

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Now, I don´t remember the exakt wording or the exakt book, but I´m pretty sure someone will correkt me if I´m wrong Wink

There is a pov where moridin either thinks, or sais to someone "wether Isam manages to kill ... (don´t remember what insulting word he used.) And Moridin is thought to mean Fain.

Anyone around to help me out with what book I remember that from maybe?

UNQUOTE

 

Moridin refers to Fain as the Renegade. I remember that bit.

[Twysty]

I also tend to agree that perhaps Isam was a wolfbrother at one time.  That would explain his experience with TAR.  Also, there seems to be a a connection between Slayer and the darkhounds.  Perhaps the darkhounds were originally wolves and are not creations of the DO.  Either they were wolves they were somehow turned, or else they were "darkfriend" wolves.  Maybe evil wolves are not supposed to exist, but for thousands of years, the Black Ajah was not supposed to exist either.  Wolves end up in the world of dreams after they're physical death which may explain how Isam is still around in TAR even though he was killed in the physical world.

[Dark Justice]

Isam is still around in TAR even though he was killed in the physical world.

 

So.... When, exactly, did Isam get killed in the Physical world?  ???

 

Im gonna let you in on a little secret: Isam was not killed. Seriously. He is alive and kicking, hanging around, sharing a Souls and bodies with Luc.

 

Perhaps the darkhounds were originally wolves and are not creations of the DO.  Either they were wolves they were somehow turned, or else they were "darkfriend" wolves.

 

Well.. They were wolves. Then Funky stuff happened to them. Aginor was cool...

[Durinax]

the dark prophecy from Blood Calls Blood in TGH states

 

Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.

Isam waited in the high passes.

The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill.

One did live, and one did die, but both are.

The Time of Change has come.

Blood feeds blood.

Blood calls blood.

Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.

 

So it is obvious one died. Doesnt Slayer prefer one form in the real world and another in TAR

[Dark Justice]

neither died. They both are. They can choose either body, and their souls are merged.

[Durinax]

the prophecy states specifically that one did live and one did die. so that might mean that Isam killed Luc and then merged the souls and bodies. I could not see it being easy to merge them when they where both living

[Kaznen]

Perhaps the darkhounds were originally wolves and are not creations of the DO.  Either they were wolves they were somehow turned, or else they were "darkfriend" wolves.

 

Well.. They were wolves. Then Funky stuff happened to them. Aginor was cool...

Elayse told Perrin that Darkhounds turn wolves into new darkhounds.  If a darkhound kills a wolf and the darkhound is not killed soon after then the dead wolf becomes a darkhound in the first's pack.  That is why Hopper got scared when Perrin mentioned them in tDR and in CoT when Perrin asked the local wolves about the strange scent he smelled in TAR they wouldn't talk, when he kept pressing they shut him out.

 

I think shadowbrothers are the only shadowspawn a wolf will run away from and not try to kill, the only thing they fear.

[Muad Cheade]

Firstly, Slayer's abilities are, at least in party, gifts from Shai'tan (BBHN). Secondly, Slayer can certainly enter T'A'R in the flesh, and it seems he can Dream as well (when Perrin injures Isam in TSR, and Luc runs off injured, seems more likely that Slayer was Dreaming then, rather than went back to camp, stepped out of T'A'R, and then ran off). Thirdly, he can be either body in either world, but he can only transition between bodies when entering or leaving T'A'R.

 

I don't think Slayer can dream else I doubt he wouldn't have been given the ability to step in and out of T'A'R so easily. I think we was simply there in the flesh. It doesn't take very long to imagine yourself from that forest to the camp.

 

I think shadowbrothers are the only shadowspawn a wolf will run away from and not try to kill, the only thing they fear

 

Wolves do fear Darkhounds and the Neveerborn (Myrdraal) but they also hate them with a passion. They're willing take down a Drakhound or Myrdraal no matter what the butcher's bill is. I doubt they'd run.

 

Wolves end up in the world of dreams after they're physical death which may explain how Isam is still around in TAR even though he was killed in the physical world.

 

Yes, wolves are in the Wolf Dream after they die but the same does not go for wolfbrothers or Dreamers for that matter. Unless you're sealed to the Wheel, you won't be in T'A'R after you die.

 

I don't think Slayer is a wolfbrother because 1). Either Luc or Isam's eyes would be yellow. Perrin has seen the faces of both and they don't. 2). The wolves (and Elyas) would have known. It's been commented that when wolves hear of men that run with wolves word spreads.

 

However, Slayer does seem to have an unnatural connection to wolves and Darkhounds.

[Majsju]

 

 

However, Slayer does seem to have an unnatural connection to wolves and Darkhounds.

 

Unnatural? He enjoys killing wolves, something he sadly is far from alone in. Nothing unnatural about that.