Logain EotW and Logain Salidar - Please explain to me.

[wvlr]

I am very sorry for posting this except from memory - and a very defective one at that.    Please feel free to correct any errors.

 

OK.  In EotW when the AS bring him to Caymen in a cage, Logain sees Rand up on the wall, and starts laughing.

 

Then some where in Salidar he is talking to one of the three girls and he says that he once saw someone who was going to cause much more chaos and death in the world than he (Logain) ever did.

 

Now I initially thought that he was displaying the ability to see tavern.    But now that I think back on it, it sounds more like a Min type of vision than seeing the tavern (glow).

 

Has this been discussed before?    Thoughts?

 

Again - sorry that I can't give exact quotes right now.    If you have the books handy please feel free - maybe that in itself would answer the question.

[Luckers]

Your initial thought was correct. The ability to see ta'veren comes with an inherent perception of their ability to influence events. When Logain saw Rand in Caemlyn he percieved that influence, and knew instinctively the type of effect Rand would have,

[wvlr]

Thanks Luckers,

 

I thought that I might be just "remembering" too much into his later comments but was not sure.

 

Did we ever hear if he "Lost that ability with the genteling?    Or if he gained it back with the healing?

 

Just thinking a lot about Logain lately.

 

He was there when Semi was captured and gave her 2 pence.    I wonder if that might give him some reasoning to disregard some of Rand's commands.   

 

"The guy (Rand) is nuts and it is stupid to leave Taim loose.    I need to go ahead and take care of it because he will not."

[bjclinton]

Your initial thought was correct. The ability to see ta'veren comes with an inherent perception of their ability to influence events. When Logain saw Rand in Caemlyn he percieved that influence, and knew instinctively the type of effect Rand would have,

 

 

are you just guessing Luckers, or does it say somewhere that he has the ability to see Ta'Veren?

 

 

[CUBAREY]

male AS can see each other.  somewhere Logain says something like Rand was brighter then the sun. He is not tavern (sic) he simply saw a very powerful male channeler and knew he was going to cause chaos he could only dream of causing.

[DemandredFO]

No, I am POSITIVE Luckers is correct.  No Men see a glow around each other and Logain, Taim and the Male Foresaken are all nearly as strong as Rand.  As for getting the ability back when he was healed.  Siuan could see ta'veren but when she ran into Mat in Salidar, then or after, we never got a POV where siuan says one way or the other so I'm not sure.  Luckers or RAW may know but I do not. 

[lou]

i dont know about that. logain was not close enough to "sense" rand when he was in the cage. what he saw,IMO, was taveren, a Talent that we have seen in the women. why would it be a suprise to find a man with this Talent?

[Darth_Andrea]

Siuan said something simulare about Rand blazing brighter than the sun when she saw him in Faldara in TGH. If Logain has the ability as well it would make sence that he would see the same. I won't say I have read a quote from him about it. I have only gotten through the first 5 books. but if he did say that it would make sence it would be a simulare description as what she gave.

 

 

Darth_Andrea

[Luckers]

Did we ever hear if he "Lost that ability with the genteling?    Or if he gained it back with the healing?

 

I'm guessing that he didn't, but we don't know for sure. We've never had Logain's persepctive on a ta'veren, but Siuan didn't comment on not percieving Mat--and she had the education to expect the glow--i think it likely the Talent was restored.

 

are you just guessing Luckers, or does it say somewhere that he has the ability to see Ta'Veren?

 

Not specifically, but the fact that Logain's account exactly matches the sensation of 'seeing' a ta'veren as described by both Siuan and Nicola combined with the fact that there is no other reason that Logain would see Rand glowing pretty much makes me certain.

 

male AS can see each other.  somewhere Logain says something like Rand was brighter then the sun. He is not tavern (sic) he simply saw a very powerful male channeler and knew he was going to cause chaos he could only dream of causing.

 

No, as Demandred states, male channelers do not see each other with a glow, and in truth sense very little. That is a female trait only.

 

 

[Ko´bal]

About Siuan I just wonder if she really still has her abillity since she´s much weaker in the power now. She was not totally healed as Logain or Sashelle(Red). My thought is that her other talents were lost in the stilling and that she only got the normal channeling ability now.

 

Are you Luckers saying that Logain lost his talent but Siuan regained her? Is that the right interpretation? If so I just wonder how you reason. Cause he is as strong as before and she isn´t. Couldn´t that be some indicator?

[Luckers]

Actually im saying that its unlikely that either of them lost their talent to see ta'veren.

[Ko´bal]

Okey, then I´m with you.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Actually, strength in the Power doesn't seem to affect Talents very much at all.  This seems to apply even to Talents that require active channeling.  For example, Siuan's Talent for Healing remains essentially the same as it was before her severing/restoration.

 

She could do nothing for the dead, but she could offer her ability with Healing to the others.  That was hardly her greatest skill, not very strong at all, though it seemed to have returned to her fully when Nynaeve Healed her ...

 

KoD, ch 1

 

Talents that do not require active channeling, but require the ability to channel (like seeing ta'veren, or Foretelling) do not seem to be affected by strength in the Power at all.  So, it is almost a certainty that both Logain and Siuan can see ta'veren now, with the same sensitivity that they had before being severed.

 

 

[Davian93]

Interesting thought on the ability to see ta'veren.  Do you think that they always see that glow?  It would grow rather annoying for Logain to also see Rand "glowing like the sun" especially now when he spends alot of time with him.  Is it a continual thing or do they adjust to it after they see them for the first time?

[Luckers]

Maybe thats why he's always so prissy around Rand. It's not a macho-pride-alpha-male thing, its a 'dude, like seriously would you turn off the damn lights' thing.

[Tyrell]

He's gonna flip out when rand reels in Mat and Perrin then ;)

 

I don't agree that the ability was restored when he was healed though.

 

I don't see any evidence saying that people can loose talents from being severed at all. I don't think he ever lost it. If Egwene was severed tomorrow I'm pretty sure she'd still be able to go play in T'A'R as I recall it's mentioned that several Wise One dreamwalkers can't channel, so, unless I'm wrong dreaming doesn't need channeling.

 

Obviously any talent that specifically needs channeling for it to come into effect, like healing, can't be used by people who have been severed, but I'd still maintain that they still have that talent.

 

As far as I know people (who can learn to channel) are born with talents - eg Damer Flinn was born with his healing talent, just it was never used untill he learned to channel, for obvious reasons. I would, therefore, argue that had Logain and Rand met before Logain learned he could channel, he would still have been all "'dude, like seriously would you turn off the damn lights'" to quite Luckers.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Thus saith the author:

 

Someone who sees ta'veren sees them as glowing. The more strongly ta'veren, the brighter the glow. This is a Talent, and is something that only someone who can channel can do. While she was stilled, Siuan could not see ta'veren, nor could she have if she had been burned out.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/RobertJordan/?p=27

 

Siuan, and Logain as well, did lose the ability while they could not channel.  It was restored when that ability was restored.

[Davian93]

Seems to be a pretty definitive answer to that question.  Sucks for Logain then since he gets to hang out with Mr. "glows like a torch" all day long.

[Luckers]

Yeah, good catch Robert.

[Tyrell]

Logain could obviously still see Ta'veren while shielded, could he (or suian) see Ta'veren while in a stedding? Just wondering exactly how severed you need to be before your talent stops working.. clearly just having the source potentially available is enough since he could do it while shielded, even if he had no chance of breaking the shield, but what about stedding (or far madding) where the source disapears entirely?