Rand is Mad! ... Maybe...

[Jenkins]

Perhaps this has already been discussed, but I didn't come up with much by searching the forums. I apologize if I'm flogging a dead horse.

 

I've been thinking recently that Rand is mad but it is the madness that is saving him. Because he's schizophrenic so to speak, he's keeping that seperation between himself and LTT. This would seem a good course because in order for prophecy to be fulfilled LTT must die. It also aint a bad deal for LTT being that he wants to die.

 

I also recall Rand musing a couple of times to himself that only mad men talk to other people in their heads, or something of the like.

 

The madness of Saidin has never been described in great detail, but generally the mad men will destroy their villages, hurt loved ones, etc. It would sort of make sense that their symptoms are schizophrenic and they are battling with their alter egos for control of Saidin as Rand does with LTT. Though to Rand's advantage both he and LTT are trained where as the average sparker is not.

 

I've heard theories of body transplants at TG and I suppose that could happen, though I'm sure that somehow in the end LTT will die and Rand will still live.

[ShadowsFell]

I've actually always taken the view that LTT and Rand will "reintegrate".  Towards the end of KoD, Semirhage (sp?) even mentioned (well, implied) that reintegration was possible, if not likely.

 

Also, there's that answer that Rand got from the 'Fin, saying "The north must be tied to the East, the South to the West.  The two must be as one...".  Its usually taken to mean that the N+E & S+W must work together, but I think its possible it might mean that LTT and Rand (the two) must be as one -- the question was not only how to win the last battle, but LIVE as well.  Rand and LTT merging might also be an answer to Rand and the "other" guy merging, when one lives and the other dies.  I know there's the body swap theory, but I really think that the merging means Rand ant LTT.

[KingKastchei]

They say only the sane question their sanity, so as long as Rand keeps wondering if he's going insane, I think he'll be ok.

[Angel of Death]

Ive always thought that if your wondering if your insane, your most likely not. If your were, you wont know it.

[Guest silver89]

Ever heard the saying- "Rich people aren't mad, their eccentric."

 

With all the lands Rand controls, I'd say he was richer than RICH. So he's not mad but eccentric. ;)

[Steel Axe]

on a semi related note... is LTT insane? I mean I know he is incredibly depressed and sort of mad from grief over killing his wife... but I seem to remember Ishy removing the taint caused insanity and I dont think that has returned...

[ShadowsFell]

on a semi related note... is LTT insane? I mean I know he is incredibly depressed and sort of mad from grief over killing his wife... but I seem to remember Ishy removing the taint caused insanity and I dont think that has returned...

 

Yes, LTT is definately insane.  There's many instances in Rand's head of maniacle (sp?) laugher from LTT, and he just sounds crazy on many instances.  All Ishy did, before LTT's death, was give LTT a moment of clarity, and did not completely heal him or remove the taint.

[Jenkins]

This is kind of tricky to explain but I see it like this:

 

Rand and LTT are the same person. They aren't two seperate souls but rather two seperate manifestations of the same soul. Due to the madness of Saidin, Rand is keeping what he believes to be the old LTT from simply just integrating with his thoughts.

 

What Rand knows of LTT is that he is a mad man from the age of legends so consequentially what he is keeping seperated in his head as LTT are the maniacal laughters and depressions over a wife he did not know.

 

I don't think LTT was reborn mad, rather I think he became mad from the taint on Saidin.

 

[Steel Axe]

but that doesnt explain the knowledge he gets from LTT about the age of legends... stuff that rand wouldn't know such as the real names of the forsaken and real locations and events...

[Jenkins]

I did a college thesis on Schizophrenia. I can't say for certain that RJ was basing the madness of Saidin on any particular mental illness, but from what he describes, it most closely resembles schizophrenia.

 

Basically we all think with a voice, but we recogize it as our own. In schizophrenics there are multiple voices that they do not acknowledge as their own. I think that this perhaps could be what is happening with Rand/LTT. They aren't seperate souls, just thoughts seperated by madness.

 

In Rands head the information transactions seem as if they are from LTT to Rand when in reality it's knowledge that Rand already has because he is LTT reborn.

[Steel Axe]

ah so in theory he would have access to all of LTT's knowledge from the age of legends as well as everything he has learned on his own if the personalities were to join? thats pretty cool... if they were to merge though what would happen with the separate personalities would it be some sort of compromise?

[Mr Ares]

I did a college thesis on Schizophrenia. I can't say for certain that RJ was basing the madness of Saidin on any particular mental illness, but from what he describes, it most closely resembles schizophrenia.

Firstly, there is no one "taint madness". We see different people suffer from different madnesses.

In Rands head the information transactions seem as if they are from LTT to Rand when in reality it's knowledge that Rand already has because he is LTT reborn.

Everyone is someone reborn, but they don't have other people floating around in their heads, nor do they have these past life memories. So what is going on? Well, if you paid attention to what Semirhage said in KOD, Rand suffers from a rare form of madness. LTT is real. That's bad. (The knowledge he provides is useful, but having him there is bad). Semi got her info from Granedal, who was an expert in madness. Now, we must take into account the possibility of her lying, but what she said matches what we know. LTT is a real person talking in Rand's head, with real memories.

[DemandredFO]

To add to what Mr. Ares said, you cannot seize saidin away from yourself.  It would be fun if when the bodyswap occurs Ishamael has Lews Therin's voice in his (Rand's bodys') head. 

[Mr Ares]

To add to what Mr. Ares said, you cannot seize saidin away from yourself.  It would be fun if when the bodyswap occurs Ishamael has Lews Therin's voice in his (Rand's bodys') head.

Good point about the saidin, and you are right about the fun of Morry and LTT having to share a head - there's a sitcom in there, somewhere. Just think - two enemies, forced to share a head. But you misspelled my name *kills DemandredFO* *Buries DemandredFO in a shallow grave* *awaits return of DemandredFO as a zombie* *While waiting, ponders why peope feel need to add extraneous full stop after Mr*

[SethLaRoth DeShawl]

As it stands after KoDs though Rand Removed the Taint on Saidin, so in other words i believe he is the only one who may actually go mad, as the others I don't will at all, with them it's just picking a side, with Rand? I think that has to be actual Madness, considering he truly does have LTT in his head.

[Mr Ares]

As it stands after KoDs though Rand Removed the Taint on Saidin, so in other words i believe he is the only one who may actually go mad, as the others I don't will at all, with them it's just picking a side, with Rand? I think that has to be actual Madness, considering he truly does have LTT in his head.

Well, before Rand Cleansed the taint, several people had gone mad already, so it would be quite hard for him to be the only one. What the Cleansing means is that no-ones madness will be getting any worse - or more accurately, the taint will not contribute further to any sort of mental instability, but mental instability already caused will remain as it was, with the same possibility for further descent into instability as anyone else - they are not immune from madness, remember, they just don't have to worry about the taint anymore.

[ignavus1223]

LTT is NOT mad.  He's depressed, suidical, etc., but not crazy.  He's someone who realizes he's killed everyone he loves and is living inside someone else's head thousands of years after he "died".  You would sound crazy too, given the circumstances.

[RobertAlexWillis]

LTT is NOT mad.  He's depressed, suidical, etc., but not crazy.

 

You would sound crazy too, given the circumstances.

 

Actually, we would probably BE crazy too, given the circumstances.  Lews Therin is assuredly insane ... that doesn't make him a bad person, but he is crazy.

[Darth_Andrea]

Myself I like LTT, his insanity makes me feel normal. I'm totaly off my rocker so reading about someone who has gone over the edge and giggles about it makes me feel all warm inside. Besides with out LTT ranting in his head look at how many times Rand would have been killed or worse without his help.

 

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]