Sealing the Bore (questions and theroies)

[Phil_Megrim]

Yanno reading through all these therioes and speculations about what may happen in AMOL there's one question that I'm not sure has been asked.  How do you seal the Bore completely?  And how can that be done when channeling at the Bore would cause serious consequences for said Aes Sedai/Asha`man.  I don't have a theory since I've scratched my brow countless times trying to come up with one though I'm not sure for the rest of you nutters out there. 

[Vambram]

I suspect it will take a sacrifice of a similar amount of aes sedai and asha'man in comparison to the 100 channlers whom were with Lews Therin when he sealed the bore of the DO's prison. I also suspect that the Chodan Kal used by one of the most powerful male channelers will also be used, and I am extremely confidant that those whom seal the bore will use all of the angreals and ter'angrals and ser'angreals that they can possibly use. Also, I would not be suprised if some Wise Ones as well as Windfinders participate in those scenes, too. Lews Therin used 100 channelers, but in MoL, we might see as many as 200 or even 400 channelers working together in various large circles of linked channelers.

[Guest silver89]

And don't forget the fact that this time around it will be both men and women trying to seal it not just men. Like it says in the books (repeatedly) the greatest feats were accomplished by men and women together. Throw in the Choedan Kal and I believe we will see some miracles and the birth of legend. :)

[Angel of Death]

Question.

 

Will Rand destroy the remaining seals first - by this I mean right before hand?

 

If so, will he create new seals (physical focal points I mean). And will they look similar to the old ones, as a symbol of unifying male and female channelers. The Fang and Flame united once more.

 

Perrin makes them, and Egwene turns them into heartstone (have no idea on the real name spelling sorry). OK thats not a serious comment, but what are your thoughts on the seals.

[Trib4l]

So far the concept has been that Rand will break the seals and then in some way manage to push the DO back through the Bore. According to some, having several of the ta'veren there may cause the Pattern to heal itself closed and essentially seal the Bore by simply being woven around the big 3 being there, or by Rand being there, etc...

 

According to RJ, the DO can be fought using the OP, so it's possible that the OP will be involved in his being pushed back through the Bore. I don't think it will be involved in the fixing of the Pattern, however, because we've seen no evidence to support that any of the 3rd age channelers even know how to find the Pattern with the OP let alone have any operating knowledge of it.

[cloglord]

Here's a loony theory that is not terribly popular, but is my bet none the less.

 

I think that the bore will be sung shut.

 

We know that the Aiel will need to be destroyed, more or less.  Further there is an Aiel prophecy to the effect that when the trollocs come out that the Aiel will take back their places of old, of course their places of old are as followers of the leaf and singers of the Song.

 

We also know that the dragon's blood will wash away the shadow.  I think that it is very possible that the reference to the dragon's blood isn't really in reference to Rand, but rather to the mass slaughter of the Aiel.

 

We certainly have a precedent for the Aiel from the AoL standing firm, singing, in the face of sure destruction, and if they are returning to their places of old.....

 

 

Beyond that, there might be some ways where Rand would be the beggining of this Song singing, as he, and possibly the wise ones and clan chiefs are the only ones to have witnesses a singing ceremony.  The male chodan kal might be of use here as well, as we know that the Nym provided a OP focus for the seed singing ceremony.  I am not sure yet if the odd ter angreal that Avhienda found that had to do with holes will come into play, but I think that it might.

 

Feel free to tear it apart, but I'm really not trying to hijack this thread with my loony theory, I've posted it elsewhere before.

 

I don't think it will be involved in the fixing of the Pattern, however, because we've seen no evidence to support that any of the 3rd age channelers even know how to find the Pattern with the OP let alone have any operating knowledge of it.

 

I'm not sure this is true.  Both women and men describe manipulating the pattern in order to travel, and the use of balefire certainly shows an ability by 3rd agers to effect the pattern in a very negative way.  I think that the talisman of growing could be said to effect the pattern as well, as it appears to create a permanent shortcut between places in the pattern, and the use of the OP to travel by portal stones seems indicative as well.  What might be more correct is to say that 3rd agers do not have the knowledge of pattern manipulation that AoL channelers had, but that at least some of that knowledge has been regained in the current age.

[ShadowsFell]

Interesting theories.  I DO know for sure that Rand will smash the seals.  Why?  Fel said so.  Rand specifically asked him if there would ever be a reason to smash the seals, and Fel was like "Why?!?!".  But then, later, we get a note from Fel saying something like "have to sweep away the rubble before beginning anew", and also Fel saying the Bore was a hole in a WHOLE Dark One's prison.  The Wheel being, well, a wheel ... there has to be a time when the prison is whole, not just patched, and time needs to pass so people can forget the DO -- so the time can come again when someone bores a hole again.   So, Rand will need to completely break open the DO's prison, to "wipe away the rubble", so it can be fixed the right way.

 

The use of Singing and the Song to fix the hole makes sense -- there's really no purpose for the Song, otherwise, really.   It certainly won't be for battle, and there's nothing else big that needs fixed or grew (the Ways, maybe, but I think the Bore makes more sense).

 

You also might have something about "his blood on the rocks of SG will wash away the shadow" meaning the Aiel.  RJ has been big on prophecies not always being literal, and that would be a good reason for the Aiel to be so stoic -- they'd have to be, to Sing at the Bore while everything is trying to kill them :).

[Steel Axe]

i dont know if the bore will be healed or not this age... it will have to be at some point though (unless you believe that this is the real last battle with the dark one being defeated forever... some do), but i think rand is planning to heal it rather than seal it, and i heard a theory a while ago, it deals with the pattern healing itself...

 

the bore is unnatural and so the patern naturally wants to close, the only thing keeping it open is the seals, which explains why the seals are failing and breaking despite being made out of cuellendar (sp?) if the pattern is trying to close itself then it could be weakening the seals... if this is the case then the last battle could be rand breaking the seals and the light holding off the shadow while the pattern closes itself... as the shadow would most likely try to enlarge the bore as soon as the seals break...

 

again this this theory assumes that rand is trying to heal rather than seal the bore, and this theory seems likely based on some quotes by fel that i cant remember now... but they dealt with the circular nature of time and how the bore has to be healed rather than just patched... healing seems to come from within rather than an outside source

[cloglord]

this this theory assumes that rand is trying to heal rather than seal the bore, and this theory seems likely based on some quotes by fel that i cant remember now... but they dealt with the circular nature of time and how the bore has to be healed rather than just patched... healing seems to come from within rather than an outside source

 

The one big problem I have with the pattern healing itself is that by all accounts the pattern is not alive.  It is a function of the weaving of the wheel of time, and while the turning of the wheel is cyclical it is also monodirectional.  It does not go back and fix problems with itself, it weaves.  It would seem to me that the wheel/pattern would have to start operating under a different set of rules in order for it to fix itself, and if it is not going to fix itself then it must come from an outside source.

 

Since the OP is a part of the mechanism of the wheel/pattern system, I don't think that it is capable of "healing" the bore.  This is part of why I believe so strongly that the Song will be the mechaism of the Bore's re'weaving.  The seed song witnessed in TSR used a Nym, (A OP construct,) to focus the singing for a specific purpose, plant growth.  It might also be why the chora trees were given to the Aiel to grow.  Perhaps the Song was used to focus the OP characteristics of the Chora cuttings.  In either case, there seems to be some linkage between the Song and the OP.  They seem to compliment each other.  If the entirety of the Aiel were to sing "The Song" as a focus for the power of the remainnig Chodan Kal, I think that it would provide a neat ending for all of the hints that we have had about the Song and the end use of the Chodan Kal.  I don't think that the OP would be enough on its own.

[Steel Axe]

Well sure the pattern isnt alive... but it is... well a pattern, and as such it has a certain plan for what it is supposed to be. Thats what the ta'veren are all about, the pattern fixing itself. I guess the pattern could spin out something to fix itself, like the Song, but it could also have been trying to weave the hole closed for the last few thousand years or whatever.

[nashdude]

I tend to agree, the Song is definitely part of permanently sealing the Bore. RJ planted too many hints concerning the Song and its importance. Also, he placed great significance on the Chora tree. It seems---and has seemed, from the "singing" scene during Age of Legends to the Da'shain Aiel's commission to keep the Chora alive, and on down to today---to be very important, but RJ never expressed WHY it's important. I think, in some way, the Chora will play a vital role in sealing the Bore.

 

On a hunch, I did a little digging on the Chora tree, and this is what I found...

 

1) The Chora leaf is a trefoil, which also happens to be the symbol of the Godhead in Christianity---Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Other notable trefoils include the three-leaf clover and the trefoil knot (the simplest nontrivial knot in the branch of mathematics called Knot Theory)

 

2) Avendesora, the last Chora tree, seems to exude a calming and healing atmosphere, which would seem to lend to "healing" the Bore. At the time of the Bore's opening, the world apparently had many Choras. Some saplings survived with the Da'shain Aiel. Now, as the DO touches the world in greater and greater ways, Avendesora is the only Chora left. Is there a connection?

 

Yes, I believe that the OP will be critical in TG. But for some reason, I just can't shake the feeling that the Chora and the Song will as well.

[cloglord]

I'm not sure about the Chora tree, maybe its because I have an alternate answer.

 

From the seed singing ceremony in TSR we know that there are three elements in the aiel seed singing ceremony.  Aiel, Ogier, and a Nym.  Now it could be as easy as bringing these three things together and singing the bore shut, but there are some problems with this idea.  First, if it were that simple, it seems likely that the philosophers of the AoL would have come up with a plan to re-weave the bore using the song.  Secondly, to all appearances the last of the Nym died at the end of the first book.  Simply, if it were that easy the Aol'ers probably would have tried it, and it is currently impossible to exactly re-create the seed singing ceremony.  HOwever, I think that the ceremony can give us some important clues as to how the bore will be re-woven.

 

Lets start with the Aiel.  It seems likely from the different times that Rand has been in the presence of Lioal's treesinging, that at least Rand has the Singing ability.  He is drawn into Lioal's songs and almost hypnotized by him.    Besides this, he has witnessed the seed singing ceremony in his trip throught the Rhuidean Ter Angreal.  Rand, it seems will be a part of any Song Singing that takes place.  There are other clues that indicate that the Aiel will be involved as well.  The most telling is that Male Aiel don't sing at all except for dirges for the dead.  This seems like a random cultural phenomenon, unless you consider that the wise ones and the clan chiefs all know about the history of the Aiel and their peaceful, singing, heritage.  By trying to deny their heritage, they have hidden the ability of the Aiel to Sing, and that abilities power to heal/grow/whatever. 

 

The tinkes may have a part to play here as well.  But given their tradition of actively searching for the song, and their propensity for singing at the drop of the hat, I have to assume that the Singing ability has been bred out of the Tinkers over the millennia.  The healing of the schizm between the tinkers and the Aiel might be a metaphorical healing that returns the Aiel to their places of old, or it might just be that the Tinkers have to reteach the Aiel the way of the leaf, it could be that all of this would happen after TG with the remnant of the remnant.  I'm not really sure how the tinkers could/would fit into the equation, but they seem linked somehow.

 

Now on to the Ogier.  There are three things that point to Loial as being pivotal to this theory.  One, he has been with Rand since nearly the beggining, and with the exception of running around for a book trying to close waygates, he hasn't done much.  Two, he is one of the most talented treesingers of his generation.  Three, he promised Rand that whatever happened he would be with him at TG, and we all know how oxymoronic an Ogier Oathbreaker is.  What remains to be seen is if Loial is charismatic enough, or Taveren enough, to bring the Ogier with him into the fray.  It seems likely that for the duration of TG Loial will be a sort of defacto leader for the Randland Ogier and would be able to bring the ogier with him possibly to be with Rand specifically.

 

The third aspect of this equation if we are taking clues from the seed singing ceremony would be the Nym.  There are several thing sthat we could discuss here.  It might be wise however to categorizes this section differently.  Instead of calling the Nym the third portion, lets instead call the Nym a OP focus.

 

The Nym, like the Chora trees, were OP constructs created for a specific purpose.  This in essence would make them living Ter angreal.  But instead of being terangreal that required the use of the OP, or even to be activated, they were linving terangreal that activated themselves or were always active.    If we define the nym's role in the seed singing ceremony in these terms, then there are a number of possibilities for how this portion of the ceremony could be replicated at TG.

 

My favorite theory centers on the garden in which the greenman resided.  We know that the garden that the greenman resided also housed TEotW.  It was located in the blight, an area that isn't really in phase with reality as evidenced by the fact that it can't be entered in TAR, and that need would be the key to locateing the greenman, his garden,. and TEotW.  We know that TEotW is gone, used up by Rand at the end of the book of the same name.  HOwever, there is some strong evidence that the greenman's garden, and some of the essence of the greenman remain.  Loial commented that he would not have been able to sing to the oak tree so well if something of the greenman wasn't left in it.  It was thought in the AoL's that Nym couldn't die as long as greenthings grew, and when Rand & Co. left the area of the tree, it shimmered and disapeared, indicating that something of the power of the garden remained intact.  Now if Rand, Loial, the Aiel, and the Ogier all end up at SG to do some Singing, it would seem to me that the need for a OP focus would be dire, and since the garden of the greenman is keyed to need, that the Greenmantree  could make an appearance and serve the function that the nym did in the ancient seedsinging ceremony.

 

That's just my favorite theory however.  If we are looking at the role of the Nym in the Seedsinging ceremony as a OP focus and a living Ter Angreal, then    presumably there are similar ways, using the OP or a terangreal to replicate the role of the Nym.  Obvious possibilities include the terangreal that Elayne/Avhienda found that involved holes and singing.  Or simply a massive usage of the OP by Rand using the chodan Kal.  I think that the use of the last chora tree might be possible here, but I don't know how a tree would be uprooted and brought to SG, but if TG were to take place in any great degree in or around rhuidean, it certainly could play a role.

 

To string this loony theory out even further, I believe that Rand will have to channel the song in a manner similar to channeling Saidin, and that he might even use the Chodan Kal to channel the Song.  This is all based on the  first interaction that Rand has with the Male Chodan Kal, outside Carhien.  If you re-read that passage carefully, it uses the sybolism of song to describe the hypnotic draw that Rand feels.  I know that not many people agree with me on this one, but I would encourage anyone to re-read that passage, and see for themselves if that section seems as strange to them as it does to me.  Don't forget to note that Rand draws on his Aiel heritage to fight off the urges even before he figures out that he is Aiel......

[Wayhey]

Here's a loony theory that is not terribly popular, but is my bet none the less.

 

I think that the bore will be sung shut.

 

I really like your theory.  I have had this feeling that the Way of The Leaf has to figure into it.  RJ kept dropping possible hints in the books that it was important, and it is definitely the way of life that is opposite to everything the Shadow is.  Also it keeps coming up that Loial is a treesinger.  I also like your blood on the rocks idea.  Very nice.  The Bore has to be unmade or healed rather than just sealed--Harid Fel pretty much said that.

[Mik]

I tend to agree, the Song is definitely part of permanently sealing the Bore. RJ planted too many hints concerning the Song and its importance. Also, he placed great significance on the Chora tree. It seems---and has seemed, from the "singing" scene during Age of Legends to the Da'shain Aiel's commission to keep the Chora alive, and on down to today---to be very important, but RJ never expressed WHY it's important. I think, in some way, the Chora will play a vital role in sealing the Bore.

 

On a hunch, I did a little digging on the Chora tree, and this is what I found...

 

1) The Chora leaf is a trefoil, which also happens to be the symbol of the Godhead in Christianity---Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Other notable trefoils include the three-leaf clover and the trefoil knot (the simplest nontrivial knot in the branch of mathematics called Knot Theory)

 

2) Avendesora, the last Chora tree, seems to exude a calming and healing atmosphere, which would seem to lend to "healing" the Bore. At the time of the Bore's opening, the world apparently had many Choras. Some saplings survived with the Da'shain Aiel. Now, as the DO touches the world in greater and greater ways, Avendesora is the only Chora left. Is there a connection?

 

Yes, I believe that the OP will be critical in TG. But for some reason, I just can't shake the feeling that the Chora and the Song will as well.

Just throwing this out here because it seems the best place for some of the stuff I found while researching WOT links to christianity & other beliefs.

 

Can the name Chora be derived from Chi-rho?

As a pre-Christian symbol, the Chi-ro signified good fortune. The Chi ro became an important Christian symbol when adopted by the Roman Emperor Constantine, representing the first two letters in the name of Christ

 

In Hebrew, Chi-Rho equates to Tav-Resh. The chi rho was used in hermetic alchemical texts to denote time.

 

Looks like a Wheel too..

 

Then again, I always think the Wheel of Time picture is actually derived from the Borromean Rings (the ancient Trinity sign)

 

 

Just throwing it out there as food for thought.

 

 

 

[akaliel]

I think that the Bore will be sealed in a similar way that Rand's wound was sealed.  The only way to keep it from spreading it's evil was to seal it with Fain's knife wound and have the two evils fight eachother and not Rand.

 

So I figure that if they tossed Padan Fain into the Bore and sealed him away in it.  Then his evil can fight whatever evil from the DO seeps out, and keep anything from corrupting the seals this time.

 

Until the 3rd Age comes again and Lanfear 2.0 detects a massive amount of undivided OP and drills a hole in the pattern to get it.

[Wayhey]

To know how the Bore is sealed, one has to understand the nature of the forces involved.  We don't yet know how RJ envisioned how everything is connected, but I have my theory.

 

Throughout the books, channeling appears to carry no price.  It can be dangerous, but it's still a hell of a lot of power for the lucky few (as well as very long life).  The Age of Legends appears to have been Utopia powered on limitless, clean energy.  Huh?  That isn't balanced!  Where is the bi-product?  What about the Wheel?

 

I think that the bi-product of using the True Source is the True Power, and that after an Age of heavy use, the Wheel became so unbalanced the Dark One became aware and strong enough to touch the pattern by communicating with Lanfear.  The Dark One represents Death, not just of people and animals, but also of creation itself.  The one good thing about the resulting collapse of reality is that the Creator directly comes into play again (through Rand, presumably), and the opportunity arises to remake the prison.

 

Loial and the Aiel singing could figure into this, too.  Maybe even Fain.  Due to its unbalancing role (if I'm right, anyway), I don't think that Power alone could win this.  I also think that at the end of TG the Power will have to become "buried" again, too.  In a previous Age they didn't have it either, so the Wheel turns...

 

[akaliel]

Nice theory, but there doesn't need to be a bi-product.  We've have no evidence that there is one.  It would be a mistake to try and ground any of it in reality, since well, it is "magic" afterall.

 

Also all we know is that the True Source (sensed as undivided OP) was detected, nothing about the Wheel "wobbling".  :)

 

I don't know, you could be right, but there's quite a few assumtions there :)

[cloglord]

I think that this line of discussion raises some interesting questions about the nature of the wheeel and the nature of balance, I think that you are un to something, but I see it in a slightly different way. 

 

It is pretty easy to think of the Creator and the DO in terms of good and evil, but I don't think that it is the right way to view these things.  I think that it is better to think of the creator as the force of order, and the DO as the force of chaos.  In terms of this, then the job of the pattern is to bring order to everything, to seperate out the good and the evil, and fit it together.  In this paridigm the Creator is simply cleaning up the mess of the void, and the DO is constantly trying to mess things up.  Which would explain why the creator excluded the DO from his creation, because to include the chaos of the DO, would undermine his attempts to organize and order things.

 

However, it is a philosophical argument within Randland that Good and Evil are the warp and woof of the pattern.  Perrin in particular seems disturbed by this idea of mixing the good with the bad, saying that it is like mixing pot metal with good steel.  The answer to this concern is that they are not really mixing, they are being put into their proper order.  A place for everything and everthing in its place as it were.

 

Now for how this is pertinent to your argument.  I don't think that the world became unbalanced because of too much OP and not enought TP, I think that it became too unbalanced, because the goodtimes of the AoL lessened the amount of Evil loose in the world, and there was enough evil to balance the good, therefore the pattern moved to correct this imbalance, and used Lanfear and Biedemon to turn on the Evil spicket. 

 

I think that the breaking, the taint on Saidin, the weakening of the seals over the last age, and ultimately TG were intended by the pattern to let in a little evil to rebalance the pattern, once enough evil is let back in, once enough people remember the DO, then the pattern can act through Rand to shut off the Evil spicket permanently, or at least until the pattern needs to rebalance.

 

That's just my take on it though.

[Wayhey]

Nice theory, but there doesn't need to be a bi-product.  We've have no evidence that there is one.  It would be a mistake to try and ground any of it in reality, since well, it is "magic" afterall.

 

Also all we know is that the True Source (sensed as undivided OP) was detected, nothing about the Wheel "wobbling".  :)

 

I don't know, you could be right, but there's quite a few assumtions there :)

 

RJ attempted to make his world very logical, even with the inclusion of "magic".  Unlike some other fantasy authors I could mention, he went to great lengths to ensure that everything makes sense, and that everything had its logical connection to the whole.  Furthermore, he had stated that he already knew the end when he wrote the beginning.  This implies that it was already a story with inherent logical symmetry.  He also frequently leaves us to figure out things based on dialogue and events without explicitly spelling everything out for us (especially after TDR), and he likes to connect the loose ends that have had lots of word-time.  Yet we really don't have any idea how the Bore will be fixed at this point except for wild guesses, unless we start looking at loose ends and things that don't quite fit anywhere.  I don't think RJ would ever wrap up this epic without dropping some hints well in advance of the last book.

 

Harid Fel (who merely happens to be a philosopher like Ishamael) is inexplicably murdered—by the gholam no less!  Judging from his dialogues with Rand we know that he was attempting to see the "big picture" surrounding the Wheel and the Dark One.  Furthermore, if Fel wasn't important, why would RJ have Min take up where Fel left off?  This is clearly something we are supposed to notice that leaves us scratching our heads.

 

Along with Fel’s and Min’s musings on the Wheel are also those other loose ideas that include Loial’s Tree-singing, the Way of the Leaf, Fain’s “different” evil, and the as-yet-unfulfilled prophesies concerning Rand and the Aiel.  (The Chora tree and even the Greenman’s Gove could still figure in there too, but they may have already played out their part.)  Look to these and how they could fit together for an idea of what happens at TG.

 

[Wayhey]

It is pretty easy to think of the Creator and the DO in terms of good and evil, but I don't think that it is the right way to view these things.  I think that it is better to think of the creator as the force of order, and the DO as the force of chaos.

 

Actually Order and Chaos are precisely how I see them, too.  These are the same forces that underly the real world, after all. "Good versus Evil" is a narrative device.

[Kaznen]

I'm going to have to go with my Divine Power theory.  The DP is the Creator's version of the TP.

 

All the forsaken have mentioned that they are unable to channel the OP at SG without the DO's permission.  That is a pretty big hurdle to overcome if it effects Rand.  However the DO has no power over the Creator.

 

And also, it has been shown that the OP can't do it.  The DO's prison needs to be rebuilt.  Remember the discussion with Master Fel in LoC.  The creator is going to have to step in during some age to complety imprison the DO, sealing him off from the world long enough so he could be forgotten. 

[Wayhey]

Nice theory, but there doesn't need to be a bi-product.  We've have no evidence that there is one.  It would be a mistake to try and ground any of it in reality, since well, it is "magic" afterall.

 

Also all we know is that the True Source (sensed as undivided OP) was detected, nothing about the Wheel "wobbling".  :)

 

I don't know, you could be right, but there's quite a few assumtions there :)

 

RJ attempted to make his world very logical, even with the inclusion of "magic".  Unlike some other fantasy authors I could mention, he went to great lengths to ensure that everything makes sense, and that everything had its logical connection to the whole.  Furthermore, he had stated that he already knew the end when he wrote the beginning.  This implies that it was already a story with inherent logical symmetry.  He also frequently leaves us to figure out things based on dialogue and events without explicitly spelling everything out for us (especially after TDR), and he likes to connect the loose ends that have had lots of word-time.  Yet we really don't have any idea how the Bore will be fixed at this point except for wild guesses, unless we start looking at loose ends and things that don't quite fit anywhere.  I don't think RJ would ever wrap up this epic without dropping some hints well in advance of the last book.

 

Harid Fel (who merely happens to be a philosopher like Ishamael) is inexplicably murdered—by the gholam no less!  Judging from his dialogues with Rand we know that he was attempting to see the "big picture" surrounding the Wheel and the Dark One.  Furthermore, if Fel wasn't important, why would RJ have Min take up where Fel left off?  This is clearly something we are supposed to notice that leaves us scratching our heads.

 

Along with Fel’s and Min’s musings on the Wheel are also those other loose ideas that include Loial’s Tree-singing, the Way of the Leaf, Fain’s “different” evil, and the as-yet-unfulfilled prophesies concerning Rand and the Aiel.   (The Chora tree and even the Greenman’s Gove could still figure in there too, but they may have already played out their part.)  Look to these and how they could fit together for an idea of what happens at TG.

 

 

Oh, and another reason why the Power has to go: it is a highly addictive drug.  The drug metaphor isn't a metaphor--it is literal.  The only difference is that some drugs make you feel powerful, where the Power actually does make you powerful.  I seem to remember something about power corrupting... :)

 

Well, you can't just leave that stuff around.  It's far too dangerous.  When people are on the Power, they do really sick and destructive things and don't seem to care so much--even the good guys.  Toss a firestorm into a courtyard and hope to hit your enemy?  Sure!  Destroy half of Rhuidean?  Why not?!  Try to raise the dead?  Go for it!  No wonder Aes Sedai can be turned to the Dark One.  They are already addicts. 

 

They will find an even better high with something stronger.  The True Power is the crack cocaine of Power.  You probably could raise the dead with it, considering the source.  And then go completely loopy and believe you are the Dark One.

 

[Andrew the Great]

I'm going to have to go with my Divine Power theory.  The DP is the Creator's version of the TP.

 

All the forsaken have mentioned that they are unable to channel the OP at SG without the DO's permission.  That is a pretty big hurdle to overcome if it effects Rand.  However the DO has no power over the Creator.

 

And also, it has been shown that the OP can't do it.  The DO's prison needs to be rebuilt.  Remember the discussion with Master Fel in LoC.  The creator is going to have to step in during some age to complety imprison the DO, sealing him off from the world long enough so he could be forgotten. 

 

Ummmmmmm....... as far as we can tell, the TP is the DO's version of the OP,and the Creator's version IS the one power. The Forsaken are able to channel at SG, they just don't because the DO is a paranoid control freak who will tear them to shreds if they do. Ummmmmm... When has it been shown that the OP "can't do it?" And what does this have to do with Fel? When LTT sealed the bore, it was only men that did it. I'm fairly sure that the generally accepted theory is that the bore could be completely (perfectly) sealed if both male and female channelers were to take part. As for the creator taking part, there is that whole thread about the creator speaking to Rand in EotW. Most agreed that this was the case when you hear that big voice in all caps, almost certainly not the DO, saying I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL. or something like that. I don't have the book with me. But assuming that this is the creator, then it's pretty clear that he's not gonna do anything, and it's pretty much up to Rand. 

[The winds of Time]

Ok first thing; big caps could mean the creator talking but untill there is proof many are going to be skeptical, it could be a saying by LTT for all we know kinda like the sayings of shinear (sp?) "duty is heavyer than a mountain, death is lighter than a feather" we dont know if it is the creator, the DO or LTT so that route is a treatorus one.

 

2. the theory of balance between chaos and order i feel is right on the money, in the sense of the bore where it is the "spicket" of evil to balance the good of the AoL, but think of this the Aes Sedi symbol is practiclly a yin-yang symbol, yin-yang represent balance between order and chaos. Turn your eyes to the differences of channeling Sadiar and Sadin, sadiar the female half is directing and submitting to the power and guiding it to do what you want, Sadin the male half, a bloody firestorm of ice, fire, and torrents of pure natural force that has to be manhandled by men to make them do what you want. see a simalarity, if you dont let me make it easy, Saidar=yin or order Sadin= yang or chaos. the balance between these powers made great wonders such as the white tower. so naturally it is assumed that the OP is going to be a deciding factor, the TP could be an outside source of the pattern drawn off of the DO because he is the CLOSEST one to it because he is stuck in that bore. so the TP could be tainted directly from him instead of the "oil on the water" second hand taint on Saidin, also the DO is the embodyment of chaos so thats why it was easy for him to taint Saidin at a touch.

 

3. the song must be the key because it is such a reoccuring theme in the book, the aiel sing into battle and when accepting pain if possible, Ogrier tree singers sing to trees and harmonize with the essence of the tree to form other things, and the Tinkers seek the song which it could mean that they connect it, they are peaceful like the ogrier, and the Aiel seperated off of the tinkers out of nessesity to protect themselves and were banished to the Three fold land because the final wish of a Aes Sedi was follow the way of the leaf. now throw in channeling by both men and women (two halves of the same coin as stated by 2) to amplify the song to be strong enough to take effect. Now the big quiz time is could the song be a calling to the pattern to weave itself backtogether, or a calling to the creator himself? the song could be like a becon to awake the creator to take hand in fixing the DO's prison.

 

Overveiw of my theory: Saidin and Saidar are two sides of the power that balance each other out in terms of chaos and order, as such the two together can really pull in a play to AMoL. and the song that has been shattered and could peiced together by the Tinkers to link Ogrier tree singing to Aiel battle singing and the dragons blood prophecy is submitted by death of Aiel in the joining of the song, this maginified by the OP used by both Men and women (Yin and Yang) could possibly summon the creator from a slumber or whatever he was doing to fix the DO's prison.

[RobertAlexWillis]

On a purely philosophical note, I don't personally think that the Dark One is a balancing force in the Pattern.  The Creator made it with an inherent balance ... the two opposing halves of the Power that also work together to turn the Wheel.  The world is balanced just fine without Shai'tan ... whose influence leads not to balance, apparently, but seeks total chaos.

 

For that reason, I disagree with the idea that there is a "Divine Power" for the Light.  There is just the One Power, which the Creator has given many people access to, for use according to their own free will, just like everything else he made.

 

The "Song" is not a specific song which has been lost, but a Talent ... an ability.  And nothing in the descriptions we have of it indicates that it can be used to restore the Bore to its original condition.

 

I have stated the opinion elsewhere that the Pattern is perfectly capable of Healing itself, probably in a matter of instants, if the Dark One's influence is removed.  Small tears in the Pattern caused by Travelling gateways are fixed all the time, instantly.  The Bore can be compared to a wound in the fabric of the Pattern ... but as soon as it was opened, the Dark One stuck his "fingertip" into it, so that it could not close.  The seal could be compared to a band-aid that covered it, but didn't fix the problem ... and the didn't push the Dark One's "fingertip" out.

 

In order to push the Dark One's "fingertip" out, Rand will have to first destroy the seals (take off the band-aid), and then, probably using the One Power, push the Dark One back out of the Pattern.  I imagine this is what will kill him.  He will probably need some element of saidar in his battle ... Mierin needed both saidar and saidin to open the Bore ... which is how Alivia will "help him die": she'll link with him and give him access to saidar.

 

Once Rand has pushed the Dark One out of the way, the Pattern can probably fix itself.  If it does need some help, the presence of two other ta'veren (who pull the "threads" of the Pattern together around them) will probably do the trick.

 

Where the rediscovery of the "Song" will be pertinent and extremely useful, will be in helping the world recover after Tarmon Gai'don is over.  It is possible that Perrin will be involved in this somehow.  Not only is he personally linked to one aspect of nature (being a Wolfbrother), but he has been involved with the Tinkers (who are actively seeking the "Song" and seem to have the best temperament to be able to use it) since TEoTW, and Min has a viewing of him in which "trees are flowering all around him". (TEoTW ch 15)  This matches the descriptions of the "song" which we do have: helping things, specifically plants, to grow and flourish.

 

There is also the symbolism of Perrin choosing the Hammer over the Axe.  An axe is a symbol of destruction, and of death.  The hammer, while it can be used to kill, is a symbol of building, and of creation.