S3E3:Seeds of Shadow

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/22/2025 at 6:15 AM, Mailman said:

And you still think it impossible.

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Holy cow!! Move the goalposts much?!? Your original argument was that the whole Tanchico massacre scene was bad because it was stupid for the Black Ajah to kill so many people because they would attract too much attention. This, you said, made the scene unrealistic. 
 

Now, faced with the undeniable fact that things like this happen all the time in the real world, you shift to “well it isn’t impossible because there are examples in the book of something similar happening.” 
 

You’re right. It isn’t impossible. Maybe the writers will write that it happens. The point remains that the scene wasn’t unrealistic or badly written because of some hypothetical public uproar over the consequences. 

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/22/2025 at 6:05 AM, Mailman said:

Grow up.

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I’m not the one throwing a tantrum. 

[Mailman]

  On 3/22/2025 at 6:58 AM, Elder_Haman said:

I’m not the one throwing a tantrum. 

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No you are the one hurling untrue insults.

[Mailman]

  On 3/22/2025 at 6:55 AM, Elder_Haman said:

Holy cow!! Move the goalposts much?!? Your original argument was that the whole Tanchico massacre scene was bad because it was stupid for the Black Ajah to kill so many people because they would attract too much attention. This, you said, made the scene unrealistic. 
 

Now, faced with the undeniable fact that things like this happen all the time in the real world, you shift to “well it isn’t impossible because there are examples in the book of something similar happening.” 
 

You’re right. It isn’t impossible. Maybe the writers will write that it happens. The point remains that the scene wasn’t unrealistic or badly written because of some hypothetical public uproar over the consequences. 

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You are the one moving goalposts.

 

I never said things like this did not happen in the real world. I disputed your stupid claim that no one would care. You can claim all you want that you intended it in a different manner than you expressed it. At best it is poor communication at worst it is deflection from a point you know was incorrect.

 

I claimed the BA was stupid to potentially expose themselves to discovery by the mass murder of a large chunk of a community. I claim it as bad writing because it feels obvious to me and to a number of other people that the scene was inserted to simply try and ride the coattails of another show. I claim it as bad writing because it damages the competence of the BA.

 

And you continue to argue with in book references to it's implausibility despite clear evidence to the contrary.

 

 

 

Edited March 22 by Mailman

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/22/2025 at 7:13 AM, Mailman said:

 

I claimed the BA was stupid to potentially expose themselves to discovery by the mass murder of a large chunk of a community.

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Exactly. And then when it is demonstrated that this risk is actually very low, you pretend that we are arguing about something else. 
 

But this isn’t productive or entertaining, so I’m going to stop engaging now. Enjoy the rest of your day. 

[Mailman]

  On 3/22/2025 at 6:58 AM, Elder_Haman said:

I’m not the one throwing a tantrum. 

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Nice crop on that quote BTW completely ignore the fact you for no reason accused me of being malicious.

 

  On 3/22/2025 at 7:28 AM, Elder_Haman said:

Exactly. And then when it is demonstrated that this risk is actually very low, you pretend that we are arguing about something else. 
 

But this isn’t productive or entertaining, so I’m going to stop engaging now. Enjoy the rest of your day. 

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Nothing of the sort has been proven.

At no point I have done this.

Frankly at this point I could not care how the rest of your day is considering the way you have behaved towards me.

[Scarloc99]

  On 3/13/2025 at 6:35 PM, Pandemonium said:

^{this show has officially become badass.  the choice of forsaken is interesting.  Who is the last remaining forsaken;  demandred or asmodean?  Rahvin already using compulsion on everyone is quite interesting.}  

 

^{Mat Cauthon is really making his mark.  this show was desperately missing his comedic value.  His scene with Siuan was classic--- and the fight with Galad and Gawyn was on point.  That scene alone will probably bring in new watchers once it gets posted on social.}  

 

Verin took over Sheriam's role for the post Grey man death with the girls.  I don't like that they are giving her too much suspicion already.

 

Melindra being Malkieri is probably a good way to build in the Aiel respect for Lan.  

 

Loving the Black Ajah even more now after their brutal wedding take down.  The one power weaves, compulsion weaves, ect are looking way better this season.

 

Everything about the cinematography  from the two rivers to Aiel waste is a major improvement as well. 

 

Still waiting to see what happens with the Redstone doorway in Tar Valon.  Min had the vision, so Mat's leaving party is somehow going to be steered in that direction before they depart (almost certainly next episode).  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The show needs to walk a fine line between foreshadowing Verin and making it a big reveal, in the books I know I for one was shocked when the reveal happened, which was good but many TV viewers want to feel they are in on it a little bit, want to be able to go back and see the moments that maybe gave it away. 

We know there will be more Verin moments that make her look decidedly innocent

[Sabio]

  On 3/23/2025 at 1:12 PM, Scarloc99 said:

The show needs to walk a fine line between foreshadowing Verin and making it a big reveal, in the books I know I for one was shocked when the reveal happened, which was good but many TV viewers want to feel they are in on it a little bit, want to be able to go back and see the moments that maybe gave it away. 

We know there will be more Verin moments that make her look decidedly innocent

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There were a few clues about Verin throughout the series before the big reveal.  

[DigificWriter]

I still don't think you can give Show!Verin her book arc without creating cognitve dissonance for most of the audience, but we'll see.

[Turin Turambar]

  On 3/24/2025 at 1:09 PM, DigificWriter said:

I still don't think you can give Show!Verin her book arc without creating cognitve dissonance for most of the audience, but we'll see.

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Why? 

[DigificWriter]

  On 3/24/2025 at 1:36 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Why? 

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Because her actions thus far are incompatible with what most of the audience understand about the dichotomy between light and dark as presented in the show.

 

In the show, there hasn't as of yet been anyone sworn to the Shadow whose actions - however noble the motivations behind such actions might be - haven't been what most of the general audience are going to view as evil, and if you suddenly change that, it's going to cause issues.

 

BTW, this observation/statement isn't meant to be a criticism, or at least not one that is show-breaking. It's simply an analysis of things as they are.

 

 

[Turin Turambar]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:49 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

Because her actions thus far are incompatible with what most of the audience understand about the dichotomy between light and dark as presented in the show.

 

In the show, there hasn't as of yet been anyone sworn to the Shadow whose actions - however noble the motivations behind such actions might be - haven't been what most of the general audience are going to view as evil, and if you suddenly change that, it's going to cause issues.

 

BTW, this observation/statement isn't meant to be a criticism, or at least not one that is show-breaking. It's simply an analysis of things as they are.

 

 

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Well, there wasn't anyone like that in the books either. Verin herself said she got into a bad situation and then decided to make the best of it, iirc. It's never explained what that situation was and it also isn't shown all the things she did previous to her decision to go all in to root out the black ajah.

 

Even if good at the end, she has significant red in her ledger I imagine. 

 

That leads me to a question: if you saw what all she did "undercover " would you view her differently? What bad acts would it take to see her as more evil than good?

  Reveal hidden contents

Technically that's 2 questions, lol.

 

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:49 PM, DigificWriter said:

BTW, this observation/statement isn't meant to be a criticism, or at least not one that is show-breaking. It's simply an analysis of things as they are.

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Now enters the room Elaida, and several other characters who unknowingly do more to help the Shadow, while neither being Black Ajah or Darkfriend, and actively believing they are doing what is right for the light.

 

While the show's been pretty obvious on the dichotomy between who is good and who is evil, while also humanizing the evil characters... We're going to see Characters who aren't Darkfriends, who aren't sword to the shadow, doing some pretty evil stuff, because they believe they are doing what is right for the light.... And they're often doing it because of meddling from the shadow.

 

So to have a single beacon of light, pull the rug over the shadow like that? Yeah. Verin can totally work... If they play their cards right.

 

The real problem is that the Director/Writers are probably going to get way to heavy handed on their who is BA? sus right now.

[DigificWriter]

The issue of cognitive dissonance that I'm concerned about could've been solved with Ingtar, but they either couldn't do that bit because of time constraints or Rafe got told that he couldn't do it by higher-ups.

 

Either way, it's created a conundrum with a character like Verin that the show finds itself in and one that I can't see a way out of aside from not actually going in that direction.

 

Though, again, we'll see.

 

 

[Fiona_12]

  On 3/15/2025 at 4:54 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

- Lan and Melhindra. Nervous about this, especially with the Ring of the Malkieri kings handed over earlier. I expect this is going to turn the "Dark One's own luck" moment into one of a spurned lover.  And if they give Lan the blanket toss, that will be a long way out of character. Not win

 

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I have not seen this mentioned anywhere else, and I don't understand what DOOL moment you're referring to. Could you please elaborate?

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:49 PM, DigificWriter said:

In the show, there hasn't as of yet been anyone sworn to the Shadow whose actions - however noble the motivations behind such actions might be - haven't been what most of the general audience are going to view as evil

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Barthanes

[Fiona_12]

  On 3/18/2025 at 7:17 PM, Skipp said:

The same bracelet that is awkwardly brought up by Min later in the episode. Particularly what is engraved on the bracelet.

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It was obvious the bracelet is significant, but I couldn't read any inscription. What did it say?

[Skipp]

  On 4/5/2025 at 10:40 PM, Fiona_12 said:

 

It was obvious the bracelet is significant, but I couldn't read any inscription. What did it say?

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There was a snake and fox engraved on it.

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/5/2025 at 10:15 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Barthanes

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 He's not initially shown as doing anything evil, but he is going to murder Moiraine and even his mother if she gets in the way. I think most people consider that evil. His was just well disguised.

Edited April 6 by Fiona_12

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

  On 4/5/2025 at 10:10 PM, Fiona_12 said:

 

I have not seen this mentioned anywhere else, and I don't understand what DOOL moment you're referring to. Could you please elaborate?

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I think this refers to when book!Melhindra tries to kill Mat and then tells him he has the Dark One's own luck for surviving with her dying breath. Iirc, at at least. 

Edited April 6 by HeavyHalfMoonBlade

[Mailman]

  On 4/6/2025 at 9:19 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I think this refers to when book!Melhindra tries to kill Mat and then tells him he has the Dark One's own luck for surviving with her dying breath. Iirc, at at least. 

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I think some of the confusion is she actually says Great lords own luck and not the dark ones. Dool is incorrect.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 4/6/2025 at 1:08 AM, Fiona_12 said:

he is going to murder Moiraine and even his mother if she gets in the way.

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Well that is certainly what he was TOLD to do. And we know that he was on his way to TRY. What we don’t know is whether he would have gone through with it (or how hard he would have to wrestle with his conscience). 
 

 

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/6/2025 at 9:19 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I think this refers to when book!Melhindra tries to kill Mat and then tells him he has the Dark One's own luck for surviving with her dying breath. Iirc, at at least. 

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Makes sense now!