Ratings: Season 2 (E01, E02, E03) lost 63% of Season 1's audience according to Nielsen

[Scarloc99]

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Time for spam watching?

My feel is Amazon won’t fall for that, they will know the same users are watching multiple times. 
 

we don’t know what Amazon’s aims are and what drives them to continue a series, might be wrong but wasn’t the expanse cancelled for to lack of viewers and Amazon took it up to finish it off. 

 

At the moment in terms of value for money Apple TV is producing by far the best original content, if Amazon and Netflix want to win the streaming war they need to be willing to commit to seeing through a long tv series like WOT or they might lose out on rights for future IP

[Samt]

2 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

At the moment in terms of value for money Apple TV is producing by far the best original content, if Amazon and Netflix want to win the streaming war they need to be willing to commit to seeing through a long tv series like WOT or they might lose out on rights for future IP

Yes. But making a good show is also important.  WoT is struggling because it isn't a well made show.  I know there are lots of reasons for that and maybe it's a difficult IP to adapt.  But that is the heart of the problem.  

[Scarloc99]

10 hours ago, Samt said:

Yes. But making a good show is also important.  WoT is struggling because it isn't a well made show.  I know there are lots of reasons for that and maybe it's a difficult IP to adapt.  But that is the heart of the problem.  

I mean you are making an assumption and offering opinion here, first is that it is struggling we have no evidence of that anywhere. We don’t know what Amazon counts as a success here so we dint know if execs are popping Champaign at these numbers or feeling glum. 
 

then your opinion is that it is badly made, when I know many many people who love it and think it is well made. In my own sphere of people I know is about 30-40 people who have watched it and all love it, that’s among work, family and friends. Then they know people who have watched it and enjoy it. In fact the only place I see any negativity about it is online. 
 

So that is 40+ people who would disagree with you. 

[books of Robert Jordan]

This is my last data from S1 (if anyone has more, please, share with us), so:

 

300 million minutes (S1) vs 147 million minutes (S2)

other numbers: Gen V (6) – 261M, Upload (19) – 156M, The Boys (24) – 150M, The Wheel of Time (16) – 147M, Bosch (65) – 81M, Wilderness (6) – 58M, Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan (30) – 66M, The Summer I Turned Pretty (15) – 44M

[TheMadTatter]

They are ruining the entire show. A season for a show such as this needed to be like shows of old and over 20 episodes long. This is a 14 book series and they have tried to shorten in so much to do them in 8 episodes that it has lost most of what makes the story good. I remember years ago wishing someone would turn these books into a TV series, and I remember how excited I was to learn that Amazon had finally decided to. Now they give it a shit show, using the excuse that they are working on other shows like the lord of the rings. From what I have seen so fat I wish they would have never taken on this mantle. This series could have destroyed game of thrones if done right. Now it's just a pathetic joke. Fire everyone that's working on the production of this show. Writes, directors, everyone. You are not fit to work with greatness. Go write and produce for amature porn or something. 

[books of Robert Jordan]

New data (Nielsen; Oct. 23-29.)

 

The Wheel of Time (16) – 143M

 

Quote

Gen V (8) – 299M, Upload (21) – 206M, The Wheel of Time (16) – 143M, Bosch (65) – 142M, The Boys (24) – 109M, Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan (30) – 57M, The Summer I Turned Pretty (15) – 41M, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel (43) – 37M

 

[FlamingDice75]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:58 AM, Samt said:

Yes. But making a good show is also important.  WoT is struggling because it isn't a well made show.  I know there are lots of reasons for that and maybe it's a difficult IP to adapt.  But that is the heart of the problem.  

Season 1 is poorly made.  Season 2 is pretty good TV, until the finale anyway.  I still greatly disagree with some choices on the adaption, but season 2 is a huge step up from season 1.  Hopefully season 3 will be another big step up.

 

I told all my WOT friend IRL to watch the show because many of them refused after how bad season 1 went.

[books of Robert Jordan]

Nielsen, Oct 30 - Nov 05

 

The Wheel of Time (16) – 101M

 

Quote

Gen V (9) – 280M, Upload (23) – 238M, Invincible (10) – 207M, Bosch (65) – 135M, The Boys (24) – 130M, The Wheel of Time (16) – 101M, Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan (30) – 60M, Reacher (8) – 40M

 

[books of Robert Jordan]

 Nielsen, Nov 06 - Nov 12

 

The Wheel of Time (16) – 89M

 

Quote

Upload (25) – 229M, Gen V (8) – 215M, Invincible (11) – 224M, The Boys (24) – 158M, 007: Road To a Million (8) – 138M, Reacher (8) – 133M, Bosch (65) – 118M, The Wheel of Time (16) – 89M, Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan (30) – 71M

 

Correction to the previous post: Gen V has 8 episodes, not 9. Sorry!

[mogi68]

Production value on WoT s2 was pretty good. The acting is good. The primary issue is the writing and directing.

 

They have directors with little experience filming action scenes and it shows. Disappearing archers, fighters who appear out of nowhere, etc. Ciaran Donnelly is doing more episodes in S3 so hopefully the fighting scenes are a little more refined 

[books of Robert Jordan]

Nielsen, Nov 13-19

 

Wheel of Time (16) – 104M

 

Quote

Invincible (12) – 245M, Upload (25) – 170M, Gen V (8) – 117M, Reacher (8) – 114M, The Wheel of Time (16) – 104M, The Boys (24) – 91M, Bosch (65) – 75M, Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan (30) – 79M, 007: Road To a Million (8) – 64M

 

[books of Robert Jordan]

Nielsen, Nov 20-26

 

Wheel of Time (16) – 107M

 

Quote

Invincible (13) – 248M, The Boys (24) – 132M, Upload (25) – 109M, Gen V (8) – 109M, The Wheel of Time (16) – 107M, Reacher (8) – 100M, Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan (30) – 93M, Bosch (65) – 79M

 

[Jaccsen]

On 1/12/2024 at 3:33 AM, books of Robert Jordan said:

Nielsen, Nov 20-26

 

Wheel of Time (16) – 107M

 

 

 That equates to roughly 2 million households, I think.

 

That does not justify the expense of the show. 

[books of Robert Jordan]

Nielsen, Nov 27 - Dec 03

 

The Wheel of Time (16) – 72M

 

Quote

Invincible (13) – 175M, The Boys (24) – 150M, Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan (30) – 95M, Reacher (8) – 89M, Upload (25) – 76M, The Wheel of Time (16) – 72M, Gen V (8) – 61M, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel (43) – 57M

[RextheDog]

On 11/18/2023 at 2:58 AM, Samt said:

Yes. But making a good show is also important.  WoT is struggling because it isn't a well made show.  I know there are lots of reasons for that and maybe it's a difficult IP to adapt.  But that is the heart of the problem.  

 

 

i actually like the show....i love the books...i like the show....

 

its a bit hard if your trying to expand the audience to make a like for like WOT and expect great numbers in 2023...

 

that said...they could have been a lot truer to the books and just tweaked it a bit around the more 'dated' parts and still ended up with a blockbuster

[books of Robert Jordan]

Nielsen, Dec 04 – Dec 10

 

The Wheel of Time (16) – 85M

 

Quote

Reacher (8) – 211M, The Boys (24) – 165M, Invincible (13) – 136M, Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan (30) – 97M, The Wheel of Time (16) – 85M, Bosch (65) – 62M, Gen V (8) – 58M

[Maximillion]

On 11/26/2023 at 4:53 AM, TheMadTatter said:

They are ruining the entire show. A season for a show such as this needed to be like shows of old and over 20 episodes long. This is a 14 book series and they have tried to shorten in so much to do them in 8 episodes that it has lost most of what makes the story good. I remember years ago wishing someone would turn these books into a TV series, and I remember how excited I was to learn that Amazon had finally decided to. Now they give it a shit show, using the excuse that they are working on other shows like the lord of the rings. From what I have seen so fat I wish they would have never taken on this mantle. This series could have destroyed game of thrones if done right. Now it's just a pathetic joke. Fire everyone that's working on the production of this show. Writes, directors, everyone. You are not fit to work with greatness. Go write and produce for amature porn or something. 

 

Thats the only hope IMO - firing the show runner and his team and bringing in a new crew.

The problem is not really that it is 8 episodes, rather what they did with the time and the fact that it's effectively 8 episodes every 2 years. People lose patience and interest wanes.

I think they could tell this story well in 8 seasons of 8 episodes of 1hr15mins.  That's an 80hr story. if they got 8 seasons.  

Unfortunately the show runner feels the need to pack time with irrelevant nonsense like the Steppin episode in Season 1.

Right now I am skeptical that the show will get a season 4, let alone make 8.

I actually thought season 2 was better than the awful season 1, but it looks like too many people got turned away.

 

 

 

[books of Robert Jordan]

Nielsen, Dec 11 - Dec 17

 

The Wheel of Time (16) – 78M

 

Quote

Reacher (11) – 1,687Mrd, The Boys (24) – 136M, Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan (30) – 98M, The Wheel of Time (16) – 78M, Invincible (13) – 68M, Bosch (65) – 62M, Upload (20) – 53M

[Jaccsen]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:28 PM, Scarloc99 said:

I mean you are making an assumption and offering opinion here, first is that it is struggling we have no evidence of that anywhere. We don’t know what Amazon counts as a success here so we dint know if execs are popping Champaign at these numbers or feeling glum. 
 

then your opinion is that it is badly made, when I know many many people who love it and think it is well made. In my own sphere of people I know is about 30-40 people who have watched it and all love it, that’s among work, family and friends. Then they know people who have watched it and enjoy it. In fact the only place I see any negativity about it is online. 
 

So that is 40+ people who would disagree with you. 

 

Anecdotal evidence does not really determine if the show is a success. You could just have a social circle that shares your tastes. I could point to my own circle that includes a huge number of D&D players, which are predisposed to love even bad fantasy, who consider the show poor.

 

Amazon is bleeding so much money from streaming that they had to start ads and then charge more for an ad-free tier. This is not a sign that their shows are a success. 

 

These boards also seem fairly dead which also shows a lack of general engagement with the TV show.

 

S1: Roughly 8.3 million viewers

S2: Roughly 5.9 million viewers

 

That is close to a 30% drop over season 1. That is not a success and 5.9 million viewers does not justify the cost of the show.

 

 

[Elder_Haman]

7 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

These boards also seem fairly dead which also shows a lack of general engagement with the TV show.

Or it’s indicative of the fact that the show is in a hiatus right now and people are tired of rehashing the same topics. It will pick up as S3 approaches. 

 

14 minutes ago, Jaccsen said:

That is not a success and 5.9 million viewers does not justify the cost of the show.

You have literally no idea what metrics Amazon uses to determine whether the show is a “success” or what they take into account when deciding whether the cost of the show is justified. 

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

You have literally no idea what metrics Amazon uses to determine whether the show is a “success” or what they take into account when deciding whether the cost of the show is justified. 

True, but I doubt that Amazon would consider an almost 30% drop in viewership a success.

[Elder_Haman]

5 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

True, but I doubt that Amazon would consider an almost 30% drop in viewership a success.

Where’s the 30% drop number coming from? I don’t understand the math. 

[DojoToad]

19 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Where’s the 30% drop number coming from? I don’t understand the math. 

Going off of @Jaccsen's post.  Don't know if they are correct or not, but as you didn't disagree with that portion of the post I assumed that the drop was real...

[Elder_Haman]

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

Going off of @Jaccsen's post.  Don't know if they are correct or not, but as you didn't disagree with that portion of the post I assumed that the drop was real...

Yeah, I’m not sure where he is coming up with those numbers. 

[DojoToad]

34 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Yeah, I’m not sure where he is coming up with those numbers. 

Gotcha.  I never dug into the numbers myself.