WoT Season 2 Episode 6: Eyes Without Pity

[DaddyFinn]

43 minutes ago, Vartija said:

Still don't like Min's arc. Am I missing something here or are they really making her wanting to get rid of her visions the driving force for her character? Doing a deal with the "devil" so casually just irks me. 

Seems like in the show she has been used and exploited for her visions since her childhood. Must have been traumatizing. No wonder she wants to get rid of them

[SinisterDeath]

1 minute ago, DaddyFinn said:

I found it important that both Egwene and the audience now know that a Blue Sitter broke before her. Did you notice how Egwene lifted her chin up after hearing that? She still has that inner strength and just needed some.

 

Also I thought it foreshadowed nicely 

Yeah, we met that character once in season one.

 

If you skipped the preview, you would have missed that hint/reference/call back at the beginning of the episode to remind you that this might be an important detail later.

Non book fans may not know that a sitter is an important position in the tower quite yet, but they will...

[Vartija]

16 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

some of us are pretty bad at recognizing faces. i didn't recognize her until she said it, so for me it was necessary.

For me it was kind of obvious Maigan was going to be there. I thought this ever since she was dispatched to find out what was going on in the coast back in Season 1. Then she appeared in the "previously on" and was hinted at with the blue ring and "sitter being taken"-line during the episode. I just thought the final line was kind of heavy handed. It felt more like purposeful explaining rather than something she'd naturally say in that position.   

[mogi68]

I didn't remember Maigan at all tbh 🤷‍♂️ for some reason I thought the other blue sister in S1 was Anaiya

[nsmallw]

My take on episode 6 is 95% positive. 

 

As others have said, Egwene's scenes were powerful! I noted that Ms. Madden really didn't have many lines to say, it was a physical and emotional tour de force where words aren't necessary and even can interfere. 

She really nailed it. I enjoyed Rand in the dream world, Lanfear is amazing, I wanted a longer Rand/Mat reunion, and i really can't wait for Mat to push beyond his guilt and be the man we all know he truly is!

Loial treesinging section was a delightfully unexpected piece, I just wish they used him and Ingtar more to at least try and go see Egwene even if they failed. I loved how Suroth's sycophants were changing as Loial sang and how quickly Suroth put an end to it, when she noticed. I'm still unsure how Moriaine's family arc is heading, if one or both are DF. I'm eager to see the wedding and how that it all goes together. 

I'm still on the fence about Min, I see what they are doing but I really hope she gets a redemption arc this season and they don't drag it out. I want more book Min! Then there is Lan. omg, Please can we get a more worthy arc for him, like Now, not next season. But as I said overall an amazing episode and i really hope 7 and 8 knocks our socks off !!!

[Windigo]

1 hour ago, DreadLord31 said:

I think y’all give the writers too much credit. Moiraine is stilled. 

Maybe, but I actually am gaining more and more respect for the writers.  Yes there are many changes, but so far most of them are paying off and hitting major plot points and character arcs of the books.  While I agree they do not know what to do with Lan, the stoic doomed to die silent Warder has been gone they have tried but failed to create a more "human" arc for him that is not in the books, Where Moraine they are pulling from other character arcs and what is known of her history and family.  I have hopes that we will get to see more of Mat, Lan as the series progresses, there is just not enough screen time to develop all characters equally and that is true to the books too, Mat is really a non-entity flat character until after the Horn, and even later really for him to really gain any strength as a character with his own plot line. 

Liandrin looks to be replacing Alviarin. She could possibly also take on several of Galina's story arcs. 

 

[Windigo]

36 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Also I thought it foreshadowed nicely 

  Reveal hidden contents

Her becoming the Amyrlin later

 

After season 2 is done I need to re-watch from the beginning, because I am seeing more foreshadowing than I thought, part of that is I am not very good at catching or recognizing things in visual media, but the last few episodes really have shown there has been a lot more subtle foreshadowing than I caught early on. 

 

[Vartija]

BTW, I believe we got subtle confirmation on the different nature of wielding saidin and saidar in this episode. Logain said "you need to grab it" and scolded Rand for "surrendering to it." Also showed the sickness afterwards.   

[fra85uk]

I still bet my dollar that Moraine is NOT stilled.

I go for Siuan master-"unknotter" theory...and then Siuan really get stilled but Moraine can do nothing about it (and Nyn coming to the rescue)

[Elder_Haman]

7 hours ago, Mailman said:

 

The travel issues are really starting to get to me every character seems to just have fast travel engaged all the time. From the tower to camelyn to cairhein to the farm and back and forth with no hint of time in between. It makes the world feel incredibly small.

See I’m thinking just the opposite. I’m happy with how they are depicting the pace of travel. 
 

No one just happens to end up where they are supposed to be “just because”. The only possible exception is Liandrin’s appearance in Cairhien. But I’m guessing that after speaking to Lan, Siuan immediately sent for sisters to join her in Cairhien.

[SinisterDeath]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

No one just happens to end up where they are supposed to be “just because”. The only possible exception is Liandrin’s appearance in Cairhien. But I’m guessing that after speaking to Lan, Siuan immediately sent for sisters to join her in Cairhien.

Last episode Liandrin supposedly headed for Caemlyn to "check on the girls".
But this episode we saw Liandrin in Tar Valon with her Son. (Maybe this was out of timeline? Maybe this was in T'a'R?)

[Elder_Haman]

7 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Last episode Liandrin supposedly headed for Caemlyn to "check on the girls".
But this episode we saw Liandrin in Tar Valon with her Son. (Maybe this was out of timeline? Maybe this was in T'a'R?)

I thought it clear that it was T’a’R. Given the pains to they’ve taken to demonstrate Lanfear’s mastery of T’a’R. 

 

[Vartija]

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

Seems like in the show she has been used and exploited for her visions since her childhood. Must have been traumatizing. No wonder she wants to get rid of them

She did struggle with the visions in the books as well, but I still think having her accept help from a Forsaken is kind of a big deal. Especially when it's a quid pro quo (her delivering Mat to Cairhien). She's obviously struggling with it and we know she's not a bad person but she's playing a dangerous game for her own benefit while others might suffer for it. 

 

[Windigo]

11 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

See I’m thinking just the opposite. I’m happy with how they are depicting the pace of travel. 
 

No one just happens to end up where they are supposed to be “just because”. The only possible exception is Liandrin’s appearance in Cairhien. But I’m guessing that after speaking to Lan, Siuan immediately sent for sisters to join her in Cairhien.

I mostly agree, but there are a few cases where I question the travel time, the show is being vague on days or timeline, it appears they may be shortening the time it takes in The Ways to get somewhere. 
We know Siuan and her entourage had been gone from the tower for a while, several sisters traveled with her in the books, and she may have collected more along the way, or that those she called were not coming all the way from Tar Valon, any individuals would have traveled faster than the larger entourage. 
Liandrin we know uses the Ways, and Moiraine was also aware of them, we can guess that there are other Aes Sedai that also use The Ways to get from place to place. 
We do not know how far from the Tower/Cairhien  that Allana/Lan were, or how many days Mat and Min were traveling to get to Cairhien, there are small questions but nothing so far stands out as a glaring problems with timing or travel continuity. 

[Mirefox]

Overall, I’m happier with this episode than the others.  Not bad.

 

A couple things to nitpick:

 

- I don’t totally understand why there isn’t a physical leash with the a’dam, but because they made that stylistic choice, I don’t understand why the Suldam needs to take the bracelet off when she leaves.  
 

- I don’t like drunk, morose Min.

 

- Mat is getting back in track.  I like the roguish Mat rather than the “dark” Mat.

 

- The seem to be taking some of the plot from the very start of book 2 and making Cairhien a bit like Shinear, I think.

 

And finally a question:  I seem to have gotten up for more coffee at the exact wrong time.  When Eg is channeling at the tree, do we see two weaves?  Wouldn’t this imply the Suldam is channeling, too?  If so, this is a bit of a problematic visual.  But like I said, I only kind of saw the scene from the corner of my eye.

[ilovezam]

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

I found it important that both Egwene and the audience now know that a Blue Sitter broke before her. Did you notice how Egwene lifted her chin up after hearing that?

I loved this episode but I chuckled a little bit from that bit with the Sitter. IIRC Sitters are selected entirely for their political acumen, and I think neither the book audience or the show-only audience would know to associate Sitters with being more likely to be able to resist torture or anything of the sort.

If anything, my impression of Sitters was that they are mostly just bickering, politicking Sisters who frequently come across as petty and small-minded. They would probably be the first to break under hardship/duress if I had to guess 😛

Edited September 22, 2023 by ilovezam

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, Vartija said:

For me it was kind of obvious Maigan was going to be there. I thought this ever since she was dispatched to find out what was going on in the coast back in Season 1. Then she appeared in the "previously on" and was hinted at with the blue ring and "sitter being taken"-line during the episode. I just thought the final line was kind of heavy handed. It felt more like purposeful explaining rather than something she'd naturally say in that position.   

i mostly forgot about maigan at this point.

but what fooled me most was translation. I read the books in english, but i'm watching the show in italian - because i'm less good at listening than at reading. and in italian, they translated sitter in a strange way - it sounds more like "gatherer". so I did not recognize the sitter title, and that contributed in not recognizing maigan until she spoke her line

[SinisterDeath]

20 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I thought it clear that it was T’a’R. Given the pains to they’ve taken to demonstrate Lanfear’s mastery of T’a’R. 

 

I was going to confirm it via X-ray, but Amazon was stroking earlier and acted like it deleted all the episodes on their website.

Okay, X-Ray Confirms it took place in Tar Valon. Timing wise... This was at the beginning of the episode and could have meant to have been before she actually headed out towards Caemlyn...

 

Of course she could have lied about heading that direction, and then got a quick lift that way from a certain Lanfear...

[Vartija]

Huh, I just realized my Prime feed doesn't have the location of the scene under the X-Ray. 🤔 Did you have to change settings to get it or...?

[SinisterDeath]

1 minute ago, Vartija said:

Huh, I just realized my Prime feed doesn't have the location of the scene under the X-Ray. 🤔 Did you have to change settings to get it or...?

Nope

[DigificWriter]

The show has really leaned super hard into BDSM Dom/Sub territory with its depiction of the sul'dam/damane interaction, but also mixed in historical Master/Slave cruelty and dehumanization elements, which is both fascinating and horrifying.

 

Re: Liandrin, I don't remember her telling Verin that she was going to go to Caemlyn.

[Rhaze]

7 hours ago, fra85uk said:

Lan character is almost beyond redemption 

 

 At this point, anything less than seeing Lan's head floating at the top of a trolloc cook pot will be unsatisfying to me. I hate Lan and want to see him dying in the most horrible, demented way possible.

[SinisterDeath]

11 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

The show has really leaned super hard into BDSM Dom/Sub territory with its depiction of the sul'dam/damane interaction, but also mixed in historical Master/Slave cruelty and dehumanization elements, which is both fascinating and horrifying.

So it leaned into the books? 🤔🤪

 

Quote

Re: Liandrin, I don't remember her telling Verin that she was going to go to Caemlyn.

There was that interaction she had with Verin about investigating the supposed "attack" on the girls "caravan" heading to Caemlyn.

[Mirefox]

16 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

The show has really leaned super hard into BDSM Dom/Sub territory with its depiction of the sul'dam/damane interaction, but also mixed in historical Master/Slave cruelty and dehumanization elements, which is both fascinating and horrifying.

 

Re: Liandrin, I don't remember her telling Verin that she was going to go to Caemlyn.

I don’t know much about BDSM but isn’t is sexual in nature?  I don’t get that at all from the Sul’dam and Damane.  
 

I think the book analogy is that of a wild animal that needs to be broken.

[Vartija]

36 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

- Mat is getting back in track.  I like the roguish Mat rather than the “dark” Mat.

 

Same. I dare say season 2 has reinforced my opinion that the changes to Mat & Perrin's backgrounds and motivations in season 1 didn't work for me. I feel like both are now closer to how I would have liked to see them from the start and that's why I'm enjoying their scenes a lot more.