WoT Season 2 - I WATCHED ALL THE EPISODES TOPIC

[ilovezam]

2 minutes ago, Ralph said:

killing turak and his soldiers

Yep, and someone like Elayne or any random Aes Sedai could have easily done the same (assuming the Oaths are not hindering them). Rand's only unique feat in the season that demonstrated a scary amount of raw power was channeling an abnormal amount when learning from Logain.
 

2 minutes ago, Ralph said:

perrin has not shown skill with the sword, which we have already been told is coming for Rand in S3.

That's neat, I have not heard about Rand learning swordfighting in S3. Do you have a source? 
 

[Ralph]

42 minutes ago, ilovezam said:

Yep, and someone like Elayne or any random Aes Sedai could have easily done the same (assuming the Oaths are not hindering them). Rand's only unique feat in the season that demonstrated a scary amount of raw power was channeling an abnormal amount when learning from Logain.
 

 

That's neat, I have not heard about Rand learning swordfighting in S3. Do you have a source? 
 

 

I don't believe we saw anything remotely similar from any AS. Moiraine had to take out individual Trollocs at the beginning of S1. 

 

Lan mentioned in an interview that in S3 he spends time doing sword forms with "a certain other character" and Rafe said recently that they put off Rand's sword training to S3 because he was alone throughout S2. 

will try to find the links

Edited October 10, 2023 by Ralph

[Ralph]

37 minutes ago, Ralph said:

 

I don't believe we saw anything remotely similar from any AS. Moiraine had to take out individual Trollocs at the beginning of S1. 

 

Lan mentioned in an interview that in S3 he spends time doing sword forms with "a certain other character" and Rafe said recently that they put off Rand's sword training to S3 because he was alone throughout S2. 

will try to find the links

 

And Rand… there’s so much to dig into, but I want to ask about his confrontation with Turak. Instead of engaging in a swordfight with a blademaster, he uses the One Power against Turak. How did you develop this scene?

Judkins: For us, we haven’t really told the story of Rand and Lan training together yet. It is coming. But we hadn’t told it yet. But we still needed to pull off this Rand/Turak confrontation. I think it’s just one of those scenes that’s etched into your mind from the second book that we had to do.

What we tried to do is combine it with a scene in the third book with Rand where he kills all these men who are attacking him and they all fall to their knees with the One Power. It’s a very disturbing, unsettling scene in book three that puts a question mark in your mind of what path Rand is headed on and gives the audience its first real glimpse of the amount of power he wields, which I think is really important. That’s what we were trying to do with that scene. We wanted to deliver the iconic scene from the books. But Rand hasn’t had that storyline with Lan yet, so this is a way we could bring it to the show.

 

 

from https://nerdist.com/article/wheel-of-time-season-two-finale-showrunner-rafe-judkins-interview-forsaken-dragon-reborn-prophecy/

Edited October 10, 2023 by Ralph

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

*Lowers veil. Returns spear to harness.*

Surely you mean *Unbristles eyebrow, returns ears to upright, apologises for being hasty*

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

9 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Lan mentioned in an interview that in S3 he spends time doing sword forms with "a certain other character" and Rafe said recently that they put off Rand's sword training to S3 because he was alone throughout S2. 

They have provided them with a nice big round tower on which to film a training montage.

[Masha]

1 hour ago, EmreY said:

I both fully agree with Elder_Haman (apart from his comment about Alfred (and even more so Edward)), and am also not entirely sure that the Rand we're seeing is depowered in the slightest (the reverse in the fact).

 

Rand should, by rights, become even more enigmatic as time goes on.  Nearly a sort of Sauron-in-inverse, he does actually occasionally turn up, pull something out of his hat that no-one expects or blast everything into smithereens - and then disappear.  And people talk about him, right or wrong or pick up the pieces*. Until almost the very end of the books.

 

*Eg: The Cleansing.  Yes, there is some Rand there, but then everyone is off doing something too.

 

And since we can't get to Rand's head, most likely the series will show how he looks from outside based on books description from POV of Egwene, Mat and other secondary characters - stone unfeeling face, eyes cold as ice, with random moments of rage. Why do all characters, other than Min, Perrin, and Nynaeve assume he is full of himself, unfeeling? And then add madness instability in later seasons (constant muttering and rages from book will work too). And then complete break down with all exposed at Dragonmount.

[Ralph]

37 minutes ago, Ralph said:

 

I don't believe we saw anything remotely similar from any AS. Moiraine had to take out individual Trollocs at the beginning of S1. 

 

Lan mentioned in an interview that in S3 he spends time doing sword forms with "a certain other character" and Rafe said recently that they put off Rand's sword training to S3 because he was alone throughout S2. 

will try to find the links

 

lan interview 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Ralph

[Yamezt]

9 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

7-11 are some of my fav books as well, in fact my love of the series is a bell curve, book 1 for me is one of the weakest, followed then by Sandersons 3, then 2 and 3 so yes the 6 books that bookend the series for me are the weakest of the series, and yest I keep coming back lol. 

I agree with you! 

 

I think 1 is the poorest, though 13 ties very close to poorest. I understand that BS is not RJ and he was trying to finish someone else's book and I don't hold it against him. I enjoy the books BS writes - they entertain me. But one thing that BS loves that bleeds through too much in WOT are characters wise-cracking (which I think is also common in a lot of American action shows than say British) - characters laughing in the face of danger cuz oh how cool and calm as a cucumber the heroes are. Now not all his characters does that in his books (before anyone brings out the scythe), but it is a trait he uses a lot - and I notice quite common in a lot of the English fantasy webnovels on Royal Road or Wattpad - possibly influenced by the action shows. It is fine in his series since you get use to the setting, but it was so jarring having a whole book of Matt wisecracking. 

 

Then i think next poorest was 14 and a close tie between 2/12.

 

What i really enjoyed about 2 were the WT scenes and watching the dynamic of the AS unfold. I also love intro of the Seanchan (horrifying as they were). I didn't like most of the Portal Stones scenes. It was strange to introduce yet another travelling device, with a dream sequence alternate reality thing similar to the arches as well. It felt like RJ suddenly felt that all his characters need to live through VR to drive home how they are no longer farmers/blacksmit/wisdom.

 

I must admit, I have not re-read WoT since AMoL (did tonnes of re-read at the release of each book from 7-14. This in itself is unusual - I do not like re-reading stuff. WoT will always hold a special place in my heart. I am still surprised after 10 years how much I remember from WoT compared to other books I've read. Really strange details linger including some minor charc scene.

 

The TV series have been a fun way to re-live the series. It isn't perfect, but it is fun to recall events and watch how they try to adapt them to screen - and ponder why certain tweaks were made - some more obvious than others.

 

Also, it has been fun going through WoT forum! - I have not done that in a long long time (especially since I use to lurk in a lot of those forums in my long lost younger years)

 

I don't know if I can make myself wade through book 1 again - If I ever re-read, I'll probably jump to 2, but it feels like cheating!

Edited October 10, 2023 by Yamezt

[EmreY]

3 hours ago, Masha said:

And since we can't get to Rand's head, most likely the series will show how he looks from outside based on books description from POV of Egwene, Mat and other secondary characters - stone unfeeling face, eyes cold as ice, with random moments of rage. Why do all characters, other than Min, Perrin, and Nynaeve assume he is full of himself, unfeeling? And then add madness instability in later seasons (constant muttering and rages from book will work too). And then complete break down with all exposed at Dragonmount.

 

Yep, pretty much.  However, even though I think I could cope with that, I am also on record as saying that if Rand doesn't do something Big at the end of the third series, I shall be very upset.

 

If they don't show Rand the same care as they did to Nynaeve and Egwene, I'm afraid that people's attention may waver - including mine.  So I think or I hope we shall see more of Rand, directly, interspersed with the aloof, arrogant, paranoid character he is to others.

[EmreY]

Plus if all Josha's asked to do for 7 years is to make stoic or angry faces, he's going to end up like Henry Cavill. 🙂

[bojesphob]

7 hours ago, ilovezam said:

Strange. Here's the content of that page:

 

It's a little strange to me. It really is not all about Rand. He very much needed help from others and his character arc concludes with that realization. That does not mean he suddenly isn't the Dragon Reborn, the most powerful channeler of all time, the prophesized saviour and destroyer of the world, in both the show and the books.

The first book literally starts with this depiction before the first chapter even starts:

 

And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

 

I am totally cool with a more ensemble focused storytelling, but Rand still has to be the most powerful and impactful figure within the context of that ensemble. His character development depends on that on top of his his unwillingness and fear with regards to dealing with that power while needing to use it in order to do the right thing. 

 

In the books Elayne and post-damane Egwene tries to "teach" Rand how to use the Power, only to realise that they're completely bodied by Rand randomly channeling by feel. 

In the show thus far, none of his "feats" could not have been recreated by a novice like Elayne or a rando Aes Sedai like Liandrin. We are two seasons in and he knows neither how to use the sword nor channel, and it's a weird writing choice to say the least.
 

 

The thing I really like about the books, and how they've handled the show so far, is that they make it a point to say repeatedly (especially in the books) that Rand wasn't the only ta'veren, and that Perrin and Mat were both close to being as strong of one. There were even discussions about the girls being one as well, like Egwene, because of how events shifted around them. The whole "chosen one" thing here is actually a "chosen few", because without Mat, without Perrin, or Egwene, or one of the others from the Three Rivers, Rand wouldn't have been able to do what he had to do, being the Dragon and ta'veren or not. The show is pushing that a bit more, but I think it allows the show to be a little more fleshed out, as it's allowing one of the book series' more subtle subtexts to shine through. I think Rand will get his due, but by allowing the side characters the spotlight in the earlier books where Rand isn't really doing a whole heck of a lot (at least on the level of what's important for Tarmon Gaidon), it will allow them to be a little less central later, but have enough character development to keep people caring about what happens to them. One of the things I hate about some shows is that they only do character development on the main character (or maybe 2 characters) and the rest are just thrown in as script filler.

[bojesphob]

23 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Just as an aside did you see the BBC adaptation of his dark materials, I thought is was brilliantly done, so much better then the movie. 

Oh, yeah, His Dark Materials. I keep thinking it was called "His Dark Shadows", and that absolutely is not what it was called 😄

Yes, I loved the BBC adaptation! I didn't think I was going to like it at all (given how abysmal Golden Compass turned out), but they really killed it with that.

[Scarloc99]

6 hours ago, Ralph said:

 

killing turak and his soldiers

 

perrin has not shown skill with the sword, which we have already been told is coming for Rand in S3.

 

Rand has not been involved in any of the fights with multiple fighters, whereas Perrin has. and that is not unlike the books at this stage tbh

Rafe said the Turok scene was lifted from book 3 when he does a similar thing with bandits/dark friends around a fire. They all die and fall to their knees. 

So if that weave was a book 3 weave then he is about in the same place as he is in book 3. 

[Mirefox]

1 minute ago, Scarloc99 said:

Rafe said the Turok scene was lifted from book 3 when he does a similar thing with bandits/dark friends around a fire. They all die and fall to their knees. 

So if that weave was a book 3 weave then he is about in the same place as he is in book 3. 

Except at that point in book 3, isn’t Rand deep into the madness and kills them not even knowing if they are real?

 

This Rand looked like a later Rand who how power, intention, and control.  That all seemed to come out of nowhere.

[Scarloc99]

6 hours ago, ilovezam said:

Yep, and someone like Elayne or any random Aes Sedai could have easily done the same (assuming the Oaths are not hindering them). Rand's only unique feat in the season that demonstrated a scary amount of raw power was channeling an abnormal amount when learning from Logain.
 

That's neat, I have not heard about Rand learning swordfighting in S3. Do you have a source? 
 

The same Rafe interview as the one where he said the Turok scene was lifted straight from something he does in book 3, he said that in the show Rand has not yet learned to fight, that is coming and we will see him learning to use the blade. If you think about it, had RJ known when he wrote book 1 and 2 that the series would be so long I think Rand would not have been a blademaster who was super syan with the power by the end of book 3. in fact, if you really take the books in Robert jordan was very clever in instantly retconning Rands power back in book 4 onwards, he finds ways to make his sword fighting skills less impressive, he dials back his power by having him "forget" what he did or how he did things and need to learn from scratch from Asmo. All the TV show has done is put him on a more realistic curve. But by having him do something in the show that he does in book 3 then he is on the same par as his power level in book 3. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Scarloc99

[Scarloc99]

3 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Except at that point in book 3, isn’t Rand deep into the madness and kills them not even knowing if they are real?

 

This Rand looked like a later Rand who how power, intention, and control.  That all seemed to come out of nowhere.

Rand in the early books should never match Rand in the TV show, because in the early books Robert jordan thought the whole story was being wrapped up in 3-4 books, so he powered Rand up to fight the dark lord now, then he had to find ways to make his powers less, the madness, forgetting how to do things. it is a bit like a computer game I once played called prototype, the very first level you are fully powerd with all the special abilities un beatable killing everything, then, a thing happens in story and you lose all those powers and spend the rest of the game slowly powering back up. 

Rand is powered up to book 3, then RJ went, wait, I can tell this over a load more books, great, ok, now I need to depower Rand, a lot, or overpower the forsaken, a lot, I need to make him so he isn't the best swordsman in the world, ok. 

 

With the TV show we can see him slowly building his power, and then slowly going mad and building to a crescendo point, hopefully not on top of dragonmount talking to god. 

 

This amongst other reasons is why the pacing of the TV show is going to be far better then the books, there is no wibbly wobbley up again, down again power scaling needing to be done. 

 

[Scarloc99]

2 hours ago, EmreY said:

Plus if all Josha's asked to do for 7 years is to make stoic or angry faces, he's going to end up like Henry Cavill. 🙂

That hasn't exactly fared him badly lol, Witcher, and now Imagine he might be playing one of the most powerful characters in all of fiction, the emperor of Mankind or one of his sons :). 

[Rhaze]

 No RJ did not say "hey I can spread this out over 14 books, this will be fun!"

 

 He didnt know if the publishers would continue the series, so he had to write with "ending points" just in case. This has been talked about plenty. Once the books were popular enough that his books were guaranteed to continue being published he transitioned into "his" story.

[DaddyFinn]

On 10/6/2023 at 11:51 PM, bojesphob said:

Eragon.... I wish they'd redo that one... 

A series is in the works and Paolini is involved

[ilovezam]

Bookborn dropped her overall season review here:

 

 

[DaddyFinn]

About WoT being about them all.. In book 1 & S1 Min saw the vision of "sparks" being consumed by shadow and how they were more bright and numerous when the EF5 were near each other. That concept wasn't brought up often in books, though.

[Scarloc99]

4 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

A series is in the works and Paolini is involved

Please no, that is possibly the worst set of fantasy books I have ever read. I think I was probably far to old when I read them though. That is a TV show that will come across like a CW show made for kids, but pretending to be adult. 

[DaddyFinn]

7 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Please no, that is possibly the worst set of fantasy books I have ever read. I think I was probably far to old when I read them though. That is a TV show that will come across like a CW show made for kids, but pretending to be adult. 

It's a great series.

[Scarloc99]

23 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

It's a great series.

And there I will doff my cap and make my own way in the world, which I know is not the done thing, you expect me to lambast you and scream for liking something. 

 

There is a good story there, I think my issue is that the writing is that of a child writing his first real book (which I know he was) and as a result it all feels very, well, lets say shallow. Maybe if the author is involved, he will be adjusting some of the subject matter to make it more adult (not in theme, but in tone and language). 

 

but then, will he be accused of being Woke and destroying the authors work 🙂 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Scarloc99

[DaddyFinn]

2 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

And there I will doff my cap and make my own way in the world, which I know is not the done thing, you expect me to lambast you and scream for liking something. 

 

There is a good story there, I think my issue is that the writing is that of a child writing his first real book (which I know he was) and as a result it all feels very, well, lets say shallow.

He got better book by book. The story is well thought out from beginning to end. I'm very interested to see how directly it will be adapted. It's both simple and very high fantasy.