WoT Season 2 Episode 1: A Taste of Solitude

[Scarloc99]

3 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I don't think you're meant to. I think they very much want her to be unlikable right now.

I mean I don’t like her much from the books, I see it from Rand’s POV and she is just controlling and secretive, at least until she realises the end is coming and even then she is still frustrating. 

[Scarloc99]

2 hours ago, Mailman said:

I am not saying you are wrong but she could just be being tricky if she removed the mention of Mat from the letter then read it to him she could just be referencing the letter as it is now. It would be remarkably clumsy for her to be caught in a lie so easily when not necessary.

 

Also 12 letters delivered in a 5month period in a society that does not have any real postal service is a bit optimistic.

Maybe they have a great owl service :). 
 

But no we are going to get that reveal once she ensures everyone is sent to ishy and the Seanchan. 

[Cipher]

On 9/2/2023 at 2:17 PM, Scarloc99 said:

Liandrin, a darkfriend red who is meant to be sowing disinformation. 

I am not sure if Liandrin is a dark friend in this adaptation.  I think she will be the Amyrlin when the tower splits.  And Elaida wasn’t a dark friend.

[Scarloc99]

49 minutes ago, Cipher said:

I find it is less about politics and more about the tone and tenor of the WoT.  Rampant sexuality was not present in Jordan’s work and in my experience in polite society it is not discussed.  Good friends sure and some men just let some stuff out once in a while (usually when no woman are present), but I don’t think it improves Jordan’s work at all and it has turned away the people I wanted to enjoy the show.  

I have had this debate before but I think it is a perspective issue, for me when I read WOT it felt full of sexuality and references to sex, especially later on. In many ways as a  teenager it was one of the things that kept me going. No it isn’t overt on the page but read between the lines and RJ puts plenty of theater of the mind stuff in there. I always expected the tv series to be sexual, not GOT levels (and it isn’t) but this isn’t Harry Potter either. 
 

Certainly amongst everyone I know it hasn’t caused any issues, one friend happily lets her children watch it with her. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Scarloc99

[Scarloc99]

2 minutes ago, Cipher said:

I am not sure if Liandrin is a dark friend in this adaptation.  I think she will be the Amyrlin when the tower splits.  And Elaida wasn’t a dark friend.

No she is, there are far too many hints, and the writers are trying to hard to make her relatable. I think we will find out she was at the “social” at the start and her mission in season 2 is to see the girls and mat end up with Suroth and Ishy. Now, it might be that she isn’t outed as a black ajah in show and stays in the tower. But right now I am not convinced we are going to get the split of the tower in anything like his get it in the books.

[Cipher]

16 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

But could she see Adeleas's weaves? She reacted to them.

If she can see them, she hasn't been stilled, no?

Sometimes the weaves are for the audience and not the characters.  See S1E4 with Logain’s weaves where it almost appears that an Aes Sedai sees them.

[Cipher]

16 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

I have had this debate before but I think it is a perspective issue, for me when I read WOT it felt full of sexuality and references to sex, especially later on. In many ways as a  teenager it was one of the things that kept me going. No it isn’t overt on the page but read between the lines and RJ puts plenty of theater of the mind stuff in there. I always expected the tv series to be sexual, not GOT levels (and it isn’t) but this isn’t Harry Potter either. 
 

Certainly amongst everyone I know it hasn’t caused any issues, one friend happily lets her children watch it with her. 

Please put it back between the lines.  Where most sexuality in shows belongs.  

[Scarloc99]

1 minute ago, Cipher said:

Please put it back between the lines.  Where most sexuality in shows belongs.  

We will have to agree to disagree here, some of the shows sexuality is important, the poly relationships that are coming, in particular in Aiel society, the rape scenes that may well be part of the show (and are key moments for mat and Morgase), sex is used a lot by the forsaken and darkfriends as a form of power, cohersion and control linked with compulsion it is one of the ways RJ shows how evil the forsaken are, and how many times is a women sent to Rand’s bed to try and entice him, only to be seen off by the maidens. The Alanna scenes ensure that the audience are prepared for where the show is going, nothing has been seen on screen to any extent, in many ways it is far tamer than most tv shows, and I think it has the balance about perfect, and the chat with Egwene was funny, it made my wife giggle in amusement. But it also has a very true lesson for the characters hidden within it. 

 

We are not going to get the blatant nudity that exists throughout the books, the arches scene proves that (in the books novices are naked), so no naked sweat tents, naked Gai Shan, naked Dacovle, aes sedai stripping naked to elect an amirylian and that’s fine with me RJ did like using nudity as a way of embarrassing his main characters or showing someone was in a position of servitude, but it isn’t necessary for the story to have all that flesh on display. But sex is a part of many of the story threads in the book, and the show so far had trodden the line just about perfectly I think. 

[Chivalry]

On 8/31/2023 at 10:47 PM, Jsbrads2 said:

Nynaeve is ten times stronger than Egwene???

Yup, bad math. 

[nsmallw]

I really enjoyed this episode. I am happy they've improved over season one. But I just was woken up with an odd thought. Perrin is writing a letter to Egwene and Nynaeve...a letter? I didn't know the Westlands had a postal service lol. However did he get the letter from Arad Doman to Tar Valon? It just seems sloppy writing to me .   I really hope they either explain the process or stop doing it.  Am I being ridiculous about this ? I'd love to know if anyone was confused as me about this. Thanks,otherwise a good starting episode.

[nsmallw]

On 9/2/2023 at 4:55 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I’m going way off topic here to get back on topic and simply want to comment on my thoughts about S2E1.  I’m still on board with the show, I don’t take the changes personally. Having said that, plus the fact that I’ve only watched the first episode, here is my main observations. Did I miss something or did loial and co go from real dead in the last episode to overtly quite not dead in this episode with no courtesy explanation? If it’s addressed in later episodes, then please disregard my confusion. Also it’s hard to reconcile my next question within the many opinions based on the premise that moiraine is stilled. However, imo, unless I missed the mark I thought we were seeing her attempt to access the OP on more than one occasion. Did I misinterpret? I thought she kept trying to access the OP which doesn’t make sense if someone knows they’ve been stilled. 

I also was struck by the writers ignoring Loial being stabbed in EP 8 of season 1 and him magically all healed. I think they are just trying to move forward much like how mat is a different actor and they didn't bother to try and explain why. At least that's my theory.

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 9/2/2023 at 7:27 AM, DigificWriter said:

 

They weren't dead, but the show did skip over their being found and healed.

Yeah I knew they weren’t actually dead, but I thought it looked like they were in dire enough condition to require a mention of some sort to explain how they were healed in time when the women who could channel and heal them were all occupied at the time. Oh well, it all worked out!

[DreadLord31]

6 hours ago, Cipher said:

 

On 9/2/2023 at 4:17 PM, Scarloc99 said:

Liandrin, a darkfriend red who is meant to be sowing disinformation. 

I am not sure if Liandrin is a dark friend in this adaptation.  I think she will be the Amyrlin when the tower splits.  And Elaida wasn’t a dark friend.

 

No, we’re going to get Elaida in S3. Rafe has said in an interview that Elaida is one of his favorite characters. And this is really “the WT show” (quoting Bookborn). 
 

Also, they took the time in the cold open of S2 to show a black Aes Sedai ring; so we’re definitely going to get a reveal in THIS season. 
 

So your options are: 

Spoiler

A) it’s Liandrin as she delivers the girls to the Seanchan and Ishy

 

B) Sheriam delivers the girls instead? 
 

or C) they’re gonna reveal Verin WAY to soon! IMO 

 

I think it most likely we see Liandrin’s true colors in this Season

There will be other DF reveals too. Last season was the mystery of the Dragon, this season is the mystery of the Darkfriends. But they are delivering this season much better. And who knows, maybe they switch things up and it doesn’t follow who were darkfriends in the book. I would sure be surprised if all the sudden…WHAT?! Elayne’s a Darkfriend!!! (J/K it was a fake-out)! 

[DreadLord31]

8 hours ago, Cipher said:

Moiraine is definitely stilled.  This obviously will be resolved when Nynaeve  restores her and may be Logain.

 

 

Moiraine is not definitely stilled. 
Even though the Aes Sedai know about shielding, they’ve never been shielded by a male Forsaken. 
 

Moiraine has a convo with Lan in Ep2 where she says, “You have no conception of the power they wield.” (Go to that scene and listen to it carefully.) 

 

If Moiraine was stilled, they wouldn’t be so careful in all their interviews with the wording of “Moiraine has been ‘cut off’ from the power.” 
 

It’s way too soon for Nyn to have the power to heal stilling/gentling, we’ll get that later (S3 I would bet). 
 

Now — to your credit — you might be right (even though I really don’t think so) and the show is majorly, majorly fast-tracking plot lines. And, in that case, then we’ll see a stilled Moiraine 

Spoiler

Tackle Lanfear through the arch-way at the end of S3 

& they figure out a way to keep majorly deviating from the books to keep a powerless Moiraine and an impotent Lan interesting. 
 

i reallllllly hope that’s NOT the case

 

[Elder_Haman]

7 hours ago, Cipher said:

Sometimes the weaves are for the audience and not the characters.  See S1E4 with Logain’s weaves where it almost appears that an Aes Sedai sees them.

Watch it again and watch Moiraine’s eyes as the weaves start to form. She sees them. 

[Scarloc99]

3 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

No, we’re going to get Elaida in S3. Rafe has said in an interview that Elaida is one of his favorite characters. And this is really “the WT show” (quoting Bookborn). 
 

Also, they took the time in the cold open of S2 to show a black Aes Sedai ring; so we’re definitely going to get a reveal in THIS season. 
 

So your options are: 

  Hide contents

A) it’s Liandrin as she delivers the girls to the Seanchan and Ishy

 

B) Sheriam delivers the girls instead? 
 

or C) they’re gonna reveal Verin WAY to soon! IMO 

 

I think it most likely we see Liandrin’s true colors in this Season

There will be other DF reveals too. Last season was the mystery of the Dragon, this season is the mystery of the Darkfriends. But they are delivering this season much better. And who knows, maybe they switch things up and it doesn’t follow who were darkfriends in the book. I would sure be surprised if all the sudden…WHAT?! Elayne’s a Darkfriend!!! (J/K it was a fake-out)! 

Spoiler

I think it is Liandrin, I also think Sheriam is one as well, but that reveal will wait until late in the day, possibly as late as it is in the books. 

Verin I have no issue with the reveal of her as a darkfriend being early, for the non book audience watching her work her way through the show doing "things" knowing she is a villian, only to then have the reveal, with a callback montage much like the Rand reveal showing how all those things she did that seemed to be for the shadow where actually undermining them. That becomes a far more impactful and emotional moment for the viewer then, as happened in the books, a faint suggestion or hint that maybe she was, then a sudden reveal right at the end. I would love to see her kill her sister, and then when the big reveal happens later have that scene called back where her sister almost tells verin to sacriafice her because she knows the bigger picture. Verin then being emotional and showing that none of it has been easy. We then accept that wile she has done ultimate good, to do it her path is paved with the bodies of the innocent and so her own punishment is the right one. 

 

[DigificWriter]

As has been said several times, stating that "the Dragon Reborn could have been anyone, male or female" was not merely misdirection; it was an abject truth for the series.

 

Rand being revealed as the Dragon Reborn does not change the fact that there was a very real and concrete possibility that he wouldn't have been.

 

As someone who is a show-only fan, I'm of the opinion that there's no reason for  book fans - whether they're supportive of and positive about the adaptation or upset by and negative towards it - to think that they can guarantee that Rafe and his writing team - including consultants Sarah Nakamura and Brandon Sanderson - are going to have any character in the series fill exactly the same role in the show as they did in the novels (or that any aspect of the story will play out exactly the way it did in the novels).

Edited September 4, 2023 by DigificWriter

[Scarloc99]

27 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

As has been said several times, stating that "the Dragon Reborn could have been anyone, male or female" was not merely misdirection; it was an abject truth for the series.

 

Rand being revealed as the Dragon Reborn does not change the fact that there was a very real and concrete possibility that he wouldn't have been.

 

As someone who is a show-only fan, I'm of the opinion that there's no reason for  book fans - whether they're supportive of and positive about the adaptation or upset by and negative towards it - to think that they can guarantee that Rafe and his writing team - including consultants Sarah Nakamura and Brandon Sanderson - are going to have any character in the series fill exactly the same role in the show as they did in the novels (or that any aspect of the story will play out exactly the way it did in the novels).

Oh I agree there will be changes but, I can tell you that so far every character included has played out the same role to some extent, maybe being cut shorter then in the books, or merged with another, no character has been changed 180 degrees or had there name given to someone who does something else. 

This suggests that while there will be minor tweaks made if a character has a role to play int he book then they will play that same type of role in the TV show, meaning if they are bad they will be bad, good they will be good and a shade of grey they will stay the same. Nothing I have seen so far indicates that any of that is any different. And I do disagree with you, Rand was the Dragon Reborn, at no point in the writers room did anyone suggest it be anyone else and at no point was it remotely possible in the story that it was going to be anyone else. Saying "it could be a women" does not change this turning, as a non book reader I don't want to spoil anything but the overall lore of the turning of the wheel means absolutely that This dragon must be a man, and in the future at the next turning it could be a women that fills that similar role because the story, while being the same, could be very very very different.   

[DigificWriter]

2 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

This suggests that while there will be minor tweaks made if a character has a role to play int he book then they will play that same type of role in the TV show, meaning if they are bad they will be bad, good they will be good and a shade of grey they will stay the same. Nothing I have seen so far indicates that any of that is any different. And I do disagree with you, Rand was the Dragon Reborn, at no point in the writers room did anyone suggest it be anyone else and at no point was it remotely possible in the story that it was going to be anyone else. Saying "it could be a women" does not change this turning, as a non book reader I don't want to spoil anything but the overall lore of the turning of the wheel means absolutely that This dragon must be a man, and in the future at the next turning it could be a women that fills that similar role because the story, while being the same, could be very very very different. 

 

I disagree, but to each their own. 🙂

[Cipher]

10 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

We will have to agree to disagree here, some of the shows sexuality is important, the poly relationships that are coming, in particular in Aiel society, the rape scenes that may well be part of the show (and are key moments for mat and Morgase), sex is used a lot by the forsaken and darkfriends as a form of power, cohersion and control linked with compulsion it is one of the ways RJ shows how evil the forsaken are, and how many times is a women sent to Rand’s bed to try and entice him, only to be seen off by the maidens. The Alanna scenes ensure that the audience are prepared for where the show is going, nothing has been seen on screen to any extent, in many ways it is far tamer than most tv shows, and I think it has the balance about perfect, and the chat with Egwene was funny, it made my wife giggle in amusement. But it also has a very true lesson for the characters hidden within it. 

 

We are not going to get the blatant nudity that exists throughout the books, the arches scene proves that (in the books novices are naked), so no naked sweat tents, naked Gai Shan, naked Dacovle, aes sedai stripping naked to elect an amirylian and that’s fine with me RJ did like using nudity as a way of embarrassing his main characters or showing someone was in a position of servitude, but it isn’t necessary for the story to have all that flesh on display. But sex is a part of many of the story threads in the book, and the show so far had trodden the line just about perfectly I think. 

“Most” means some are essential to the story. Alanna and her warderdoodles are definitely not essential.

 

Between the lines just means that we don’t need to see people actually rolling around in bed to know what is going on. It takes a little creativity to let audience know what is going to happen and then cut to next scene.
 

Ambiguity lets people fill in blanks never explicitly stated like Moiraine and Siune from New Spring.  Like one warded could make a comment to Lan about Alanna and her warders while rolling his eyes, but not explicitly state what is going on. People make jokes about sister wives, but never describe sexual acts in the jokes.

 

Alternatively Rafe has Loial cut with a deadly dagger and then just pretends it doesn’t exist.  That is bad story telling.

 

IMO Jordan handled sex tactfully while never describing the actual act.  Closest was:

Spoiler

Avienda and Rand hooking up in tent in Seanchan?

Morgase compulsion rape was never described on page and just referred to.  Mat and Tylin also was never explicitly described, just references to how she likes him in ribbons and nothing else and her chasing him around the room.

 

Glad the nudity from books is being removed.  I know those girls are nude in the swimming pool locker room, but it is best for me and them I don’t see it.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Cipher

[Elder_Haman]

8 minutes ago, Cipher said:

Alternatively Rafe has Loial cut with a deadly dagger and then just pretends it doesn’t exist.  That is bad story telling.

I admit this has confounded me. And it's a big enough question that part of me expects that we are going to find out what happened via flashback or something. 

[DigificWriter]

10 minutes ago, Cipher said:

Rafe has Loial cut with a deadly dagger

 

This presumes that the Shadar Logoth dagger, in the show, is deadlier than your standard knife, which has not been intimated to be the case.

[Scarloc99]

5 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I admit this has confounded me. And it's a big enough question that part of me expects that we are going to find out what happened via flashback or something. 

I will be honest I don't care, I think it was something Rafe agreed to when they had to change the story with Barney leaving, and then post with all the questions and confusion he realised it was a massive mistake so doesn't want to dwell on it because "fixing it" wastes important TV time that can be spent on more important things. Loial is alive, lets just move on and enjoy what is coming up and not hope for some handwave explanation about the dagger. I have a feeling that Fain is going to stab rand and then die much sooner in the TV show anyway, in the books he doesn't really do much post the stabby stabby other then sort out a problem for rand and try and trap him. I can see Mat killing Fain far sooner then he does in the books and it not be an issue. 

[Scarloc99]

8 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

This presumes that the Shadar Logoth dagger, in the show, is deadlier than your standard knife, which has not been intimated to be the case.

It plays a pretty no massively important part to all of the story and being as deadly relies on that being the case. What it does later on can't really be changed or removed without breaking the overall story quite dramatically. And yes, you seem to think anything can be re written but I think fellow book readers would agree that what the dagger signifies in terms of Rand making the world whole again can't be understated, and the lesson he gets from his experience with it is pretty fundamental. 

[DigificWriter]

1 minute ago, Scarloc99 said:

I can see Mat killing Fain far sooner then he does in the books

 

This presumes that Mat kills Fain in the show.

 

Based on what has transpired thus far, it feels more likely, as a show-only fan, for Perrin to kill Fain.