Steel has no rust…

[Jsbrads2]

The mining of steel in the town, you can see I beams, that have no corrosion. Also, if metal objects are in such good condition, the beam is far more valuable than the metal it is made of, and if there are beams, they should be incorporated into structures, not melted in place of ore. 

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, Jsbrads2 said:

The mining of steel in the town, you can see I beams, that have no corrosion. Also, if metal objects are in such good condition, the beam is far more valuable than the metal it is made of, and if there are beams, they should be incorporated into structures, not melted in place of ore. 

I'm not sure I understand your comment.  Steel is not mined, iron is.

[SinisterDeath]

7 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

I'm not sure I understand your comment.  Steel is not mined, iron is.

In episode... 3? The village they go through, they're mining old sky scrapers.

[DojoToad]

5 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

In episode... 3? The village they go through, they're mining old sky scrapers.

Okay - I must have missed that, even though I watched it twice.

 

In that case @Jsbrads2 the beam may have been valuable, but the AoL is gone.  Society has reverted and people think smaller.  It is a lot easier to melt down beams than move hundreds of tons of rock/earth and then process the resultant ore to get less usable metal than you would from melting down nice clean beams.  It is smart to melt down the beams - less labor, more profit.  This is of course all dependent on what they are using it for.  Don't believe they are building structures with iron/steel components.  So these beams can be turned into countless tools and weapons.

 

Maybe after Rand opens all his schools the value of the beams might be realized, but until then these people are 'primitives' and looking for the easiest way to survive and profit.

[Scarloc99]

14 hours ago, Jsbrads2 said:

The mining of steel in the town, you can see I beams, that have no corrosion. Also, if metal objects are in such good condition, the beam is far more valuable than the metal it is made of, and if there are beams, they should be incorporated into structures, not melted in place of ore. 

AOL steel probably never rusts. 

[WhiteVeils]

4 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

AOL steel probably never rusts. 

 

This.  But it /can/ be bent and warped (including by the One Power during the breaking of the world), so the chunks they were digging were buried in a mountain. They're probably bent and warped and partially melted, etc, by time and by the Breaking, and the miners are digging it out to melt it to make things they can use.

[Jsbrads2]

Sir Charrid, they could have some technology we don’t, but if the AOL steel doesn’t rust, then Randland would have access to that same rustless, exceptional alloy for blades and the like, no one has mentioned anything like that yet.

 

White Veils, a warped beam can be trued up with a little blacksmithing. And while some of that metal would go to swords and the like, there would still be some Lord or Lady who can afford a dozen swords who would rather use those resources to keep the original beam and use it to hold up the roof to his ballroom… or at least the Queen of Camlyn’s throne room. We will see. 

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Jsbrads2 said:

Sir Charrid, they could have some technology we don’t, but if the AOL steel doesn’t rust, then Randland would have access to that same rustless, exceptional alloy for blades and the like, no one has mentioned anything like that yet.

 

White Veils, a warped beam can be trued up with a little blacksmithing. And while some of that metal would go to swords and the like, there would still be some Lord or Lady who can afford a dozen swords who would rather use those resources to keep the original beam and use it to hold up the roof to his ballroom… or at least the Queen of Camlyn’s throne room. We will see. 

Depending on the beam, once the damage is done, you have to reforge it.

 

Regardless, who's to say that's not exactly what was already done 1500 years ago?

 

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, Jsbrads2 said:

Sir Charrid, they could have some technology we don’t, but if the AOL steel doesn’t rust, then Randland would have access to that same rustless, exceptional alloy for blades and the like, no one has mentioned anything like that yet.

 

White Veils, a warped beam can be trued up with a little blacksmithing. And while some of that metal would go to swords and the like, there would still be some Lord or Lady who can afford a dozen swords who would rather use those resources to keep the original beam and use it to hold up the roof to his ballroom… or at least the Queen of Camlyn’s throne room. We will see. 

Warning if you have not read the books.
 

Spoiler

The AOL was full of technology we don’t have, stasis cubes, shock lancers, hover cars, the technology to clone and create living beings to create crops. The AOL was the absolute height of technology, so yes I imagine it was a fairly mundane thing to make steel that, while not truly power forged like a heron blade, was an alloy that avoided rusting. 

 

[Dagon Thyne]

5 hours ago, Jsbrads2 said:

Sir Charrid, they could have some technology we don’t, but if the AOL steel doesn’t rust, then Randland would have access to that same rustless, exceptional alloy for blades and the like, no one has mentioned anything like that yet.

 

White Veils, a warped beam can be trued up with a little blacksmithing. And while some of that metal would go to swords and the like, there would still be some Lord or Lady who can afford a dozen swords who would rather use those resources to keep the original beam and use it to hold up the roof to his ballroom… or at least the Queen of Camlyn’s throne room. We will see. 

Did they ever mention anything about reforginger power wrought blades?

 

It's never mentioned in the books And so it's unclear whether or not power wraught steel from the age of legends could actually be reworked without undoing whatever created it in the 1st place.  That would explain why they don't take steel beams from buildings to reuse as weapons.  

 

It makes perfect sense for them to have used power wraught steel to construct buildings and the age religion since it could withstand the elementss but It also makes sense that the process of creating power wraught steel Doesn't allow the product to be reforged afterwards without undoing the process.  

Power waught weapons aren't like Valerian steel weapons from ASOIAF, Where the final product can be melted down and made into new weapons.  

If they tried to melt down power wraught steel beams from old skyscrapers from the age of legends, They would likely end up with regular steel and not power wraught steel.  

Edited January 8, 2023 by Dagon Thyne

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

6 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Power waught weapons aren't like Valerian steel weapons from ASOIAF, Where the final product can be melted down and made into new weapons.

The re-forging scene in GoT (and indeed the opening scene of Conan) where molten steel is poured into a mould, while looking OK on screen is not at all how steel weapons were made or would be re-worked.  If you get iron or steel hot enough to melt it will usually burn (which is oxidisation, turning the iron to rust).  The valerian steel weapons are described as being of pattern welded steel - melting them would undo the layering which (along with whatever magic is involved) makes them strong and flexible.  You would heat them to the point were they can be forged with a hammer and re-work at that heat, not melt and cast.

[Dagon Thyne]

21 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

The re-forging scene in GoT (and indeed the opening scene of Conan) where molten steel is poured into a mould, while looking OK on screen is not at all how steel weapons were made or would be re-worked.  If you get iron or steel hot enough to melt it will usually burn (which is oxidisation, turning the iron to rust).  The valerian steel weapons are described as being of pattern welded steel - melting them would undo the layering which (along with whatever magic is involved) makes them strong and flexible.  You would heat them to the point were they can be forged with a hammer and re-work at that heat, not melt and cast.

But there is still a way to reforge the weapons As it happens in the books.  

 

The same is not true of power wraught weapons in WOT.  

[Jsbrads2]

Power wrought weapons in WoT can’t be reforged, but they also can’t be damaged, so they never need it. 

if the beams were power wrought, they can’t be damaged.

when dealing with steel that can be damaged, it can also be repaired.

If beams were repaired and put to use in construction, you would see one beam supporting the center of the wine spring inn’s common room, you would other AoL items sparsely scattered around the environment as people find them and use them appropriately and inappropriately but to fill a need in their world. 

[WhiteVeils]

In many places in the world, bits of old buildings and monuments are used as building material. They just don't look much like they used to any more.   There are also just as many places that don't use old buildings as building material. It depends on what happens to be nearby.  So a new cottage near old ruins often incorporates old stones.  The bronze, gold, and other materials from past ages are, in our world, routinely taken and melted down or reused, rendered unrecognizable as they are shaped to new purpose.  Bits from past ages in Rand Land could be used just the same way.

[Scarloc99]

12 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

In many places in the world, bits of old buildings and monuments are used as building material. They just don't look much like they used to any more.   There are also just as many places that don't use old buildings as building material. It depends on what happens to be nearby.  So a new cottage near old ruins often incorporates old stones.  The bronze, gold, and other materials from past ages are, in our world, routinely taken and melted down or reused, rendered unrecognizable as they are shaped to new purpose.  Bits from past ages in Rand Land could be used just the same way.

There are many examples of very ancient ruins, usually walls or forts, anything stone built, being reclaimed and reused for other buildings. Here in the UK there are numerous castle remains who's stone was taken to help build the town that now surrounds those remains. So this is a very viable option. 

[Jsbrads2]

The difference is, when hundreds of year old buildings incorporated stones from older construction, it wasn’t obvious. It was a stone inside a stone building.

here, those things should stick out like a sore thumb, like an I beam in middle of a stone and wood building, or a sheet of metal incorporated into a roof, wall or wagon.

[Dagon Thyne]

On 1/10/2023 at 1:16 AM, Jsbrads2 said:

Power wrought weapons in WoT can’t be reforged, but they also can’t be damaged, so they never need it. 

if the beams were power wrought, they can’t be damaged.

when dealing with steel that can be damaged, it can also be repaired.

If beams were repaired and put to use in construction, you would see one beam supporting the center of the wine spring inn’s common room, you would other AoL items sparsely scattered around the environment as people find them and use them appropriately and inappropriately but to fill a need in their world. 

If it isn't power wraught steel and can be belted dowb and reforged, then it would be more useful in repairing tools and weapons than in construction.  The Wine Spring in has been standing for hundreds of years, and I doubt they would see the need to add a steel support beam when wooden ones have always worked fine.  I would think that the people of the two rivers would put more stock in strong tools.  

[Scarloc99]

10 hours ago, Jsbrads2 said:

The difference is, when hundreds of year old buildings incorporated stones from older construction, it wasn’t obvious. It was a stone inside a stone building.

here, those things should stick out like a sore thumb, like an I beam in middle of a stone and wood building, or a sheet of metal incorporated into a roof, wall or wagon.

If an entire I beam is recovered, how and where does that get taken to be used? In our world you need a lorry and crane to move it about, would it be worth the time money and effort to have a team of ponies pull the cart it sits on to whichever lord wants it? Especially when buildings are standing up perfectly well all on their own. Far better value to melt the metal down and make things that can be transported easily. You are assuming that the village or small town near the mine has the resources and the need to buy that I beam? 

[WhiteVeils]

You don't have super hot welders either, so it would be very hard to reshape an I beam that was bent or damaged...that much metal is just to big to 'fix'.  You have to saw up the metal into chunks small enough to fit into a brick furnace to melt.

[Jsbrads2]

Fixing a bent metal beam wouldn’t be melted, it would just be heated up so they could adjust it with a hammer.

They wouldn’t remove a wooden beam and replace it with a steel beam, they would design a large room with fewer supports.

King of Cairhein was planning on moving the Male Saangreal to Cairhein, a lord can tie the front of a beam to a wagon and the back of the beam can rest on a small cart. 

[WhiteVeils]

I don't think you can get the temperatures to heat steel to the point where you adjust it with a hammer without a furnace or a blowtorch.

[Jsbrads2]

Shovel a large pile of burning coals onto the work area. Slide the work area onto a rolling anvil.

Just watched Alec Steele making chain all day, he just shoved the metal rod into coals. 

[SinisterDeath]

5 hours ago, Jsbrads2 said:

Fixing a bent metal beam wouldn’t be melted, it would just be heated up so they could adjust it with a hammer.

They wouldn’t remove a wooden beam and replace it with a steel beam, they would design a large room with fewer supports.

 

Which also messes with the strength of the steel, unless you know exactly how to heat and cool it to keep it's strength.

Granted, that's to maintain it's strength for it's original purpose.
 

Quote

King of Cairhein was planning on moving the Male Saangreal to Cairhein, a lord can tie the front of a beam to a wagon and the back of the beam can rest on a small cart. 

You would need several carts (wheels/axels) to take the load (depending on just how big the beam is), so you don't sink the wheels into the road..

[Sabio]

I always look at it as when in doubt just assume the one power was used or maybe it came from somewhere else. The tower of Ghenjei is a good example.

[Jsbrads2]

obviously I beams are better when freshly made, but in their day and age, even an compromised I beam is better than anything they have from their own day.
 

Yeah, Whitebridge is an artifact from a prior time that is still in use, but it definitely looks very magic sourced.