Slinky-slank mafia

[Clovdyx]

2 hours ago, whiskey delta said:

Last thing

 

@Clovdyx you said the only post of mine from the last two days you could see coming from town!AJ was the Hally no-claim read. In the greater context of play, can you explain how things I have done this game fit into a mafia perspective? And no - I’m not asking for a big glass of WIFOM here.
 

I’d actually ask the same of anyone who is still unsure about me. 

 

Seen, and I'll try to address it tonight.  

 

And I saw your big post, and I'll give overall thoughts layer but wanted to say I swear on my EGA I genuinely do not care how you (or anyone else) reads me.  If people think I'm scum, that's fine - it's a mafia game.  I. Have the same ability to rand maf as everyone else.  I've been scumread before, and itll happen again.   I don't even care if you vote me 

 

I care an epic F ton WHY they read me, because that gives insight to alignments, and figuring people out is really all I care about when I'm town.  If somebody explains their reasoning and it's fake as hell, that's a problem.  But if I believe they believe it, hey,  nature of the game.

 

@whiskey delta

[SinisterDeath]

8 hours ago, Hallia said:

MINUS the quote bc UGH

FYI, if the quotes are being a PITA, you can click the "share" button, and copy/paste the post url and it'll at least be a quazi-imbedded quote.

[TrippedOnReality]

4 hours ago, whiskey delta said:

Having said that, I trust you, and so if you think I am wrong about Chris I will *likewise* listen to you. He’s made a lot of content tonight with several players so whatever thoughts you have good or bad I will take into consideration

I would never claim to be good at reading Chris.  I have never successfully caught scum!Chris based solely on his own content.  I have caught him if he's subbed for someone I already had a scum read on.  That said, since I don't have Chris crucifying mafia yet to make him an easy town read, this feels more like town Chris?  When I think back to the games where Chris was mafia and I was town, there were notable cases where mafia!Chris wanted to yeet one of my town reads (darcstar in PerC house sticks out to me the most) and times where he actively tried to get in the way of an active push on a teammate (BFG in darthes game comes to mind, also him not jumping on mafia!foxes when he was clearly outted in PerC house).  Neither of those have happened so far (i realize it's still early).  I feel our reads line up a lot which is generally ~good, but also means nothing if my reads are trash.  AFAICT, he's coming a lot of the same conclusions for the same reasons as I am, and interacting with him last night I just felt like we were very much on the same page which is also ~good. if we still haven't yeeted mafia and Chris is still alive later in the game, I'll have to seriously reevaluate.

 

And I get where you're coming from with Chris's vote on leelou.  I also thought it was odd given he seemed like he felt okay about leelou, but I've also seen him vote in places that didn't necessarily make sense on the surface to get something going as town.  I knew he wasn't going to be back before EoD and there wasn't really anything happening.  So I was willing to wait and see how it panned out.  I don't think the vote itself means anything for his alignment outside of him pretty much never being teamed with leelou.

[TrippedOnReality]

4 hours ago, whiskey delta said:

SD/Leelou was one too right? Possibly Leelou/Verb. Depending on how many wolves it’s possible scum aren’t voting together so that could rule those two out automatically 

 

Is there more to your leelou/verb anti pairing or is it just based on voting?  I recall them interacting but nothing sticks out off the top of my head that would make them unlikely to be aligned.  I'll have to read back tonight when I get home from work.

[TrippedOnReality]

Cory, can you look over my pairs and see if there's any teams you'd like to eliminate as possible?  Also, am I stupid for wanting to add Chris/AJ to the probably not teamed list?

[Darthe]

4 hours ago, whiskey delta said:

AJ’s Circle of Trust: Cory, Voodoo, Tripped, Hallia?

Outer Circle: Darthe, Leelou, Clovdyx, SinisterDeath, Verbal

 

This feels better to me upon my evening reflection.

 

D2 has been a little bit of rollercoaster for my reads but I hope it will have a good impact in the long run. As we get deeper into this game it becomes more apparent to me that both my glory days are behind me and that I still suck at this game but I will try hard anyway 😆😩 perhaps this nightly recap and recount thing will become my new happy place.

To my inner circle:

 

Cory,

I know ultimately what happened is a bad thing but it comes with a huge weight off my shoulders I feel like. That’s selfish to say perhaps but I imagine you wished you had similar info on me right now. Having said that, it has a sobering affect that reminds me to double check myself and that’s what I am doing now. Anything you want to ask me directly, fire away.

 

Voodoo,

I can see that you are processing things as they come to you and I think that is very good thing. I think you’re starting to get the hang of this but it only gets so much worse from here, I promise. Your question and my answer to you about Darthe earlier has been on my mind so I’d just like to say to hold onto that one for now but don’t forget it if you’re sitting in a situation later on where the game is on the line and he’s still alive.

 

Tripped,

I know you don’t trust me and that’s totally fine. I still think you are town, and so I know regardless you won’t totally ignore me either. Here’s the thing. I think I get way better reads watching you and Clov together than I do reading each of you directly. That might sound weird, but I can accept I am not on par with your two robot brains. Having said that, I trust you, and so if you think I am wrong about Chris I will *likewise* listen to you. He’s made a lot of content tonight with several players so whatever thoughts you have good or bad I will take into consideration. Also, I won’t lie. I haven’t looked at your lists again but reading you and Chris talk about it was good I think. So keep that up?

 

Hallia,

I’m leap of faithing this read so I hope I’m not falling on my sword because you’re too slick of a wolf to claim under pressure  

 

but that’s the best thing I have on you that is possibly AI besides the fact I know v/v D1 wagons aren’t rare at all 

 

I don’t know if there is 2 or 3 wolves but I don’t think I’ve got any here. Hallia is the scariest one to accept but if you other three think so then I’ll roll with it. After you all have read this and if there is anything you want to ask or address or whatever, please do.

 

To the rest of you beloved misfits:

 

Darthe,

you’ve got chops, man. I said at the very beginning of the game that you are a gamer and that is still true. You could very well be Town here but I do find myself agreeing with Clov a little bit and after reflecting on my own meta reflection of you… I thought some further diligence was needed. You do seem a little bored, even after me and Clov slap fought a bit, so I was expecting more of an interest there. In regards to your play that is outside of presence and volume, and focuses more on the tangibles, your track record is getting muddier. You pressured out a PR claim and were part of that flash wagon that is now a confirmed villager. Some level of suspicion is warranted here barring one exact scenario that has yet to happen.

 

Leelou,

You helped lynch Dice. I know that doesn’t make you scum by itself but it doesn’t not make you scum either. My issue is that since he was calling you scum that basically gave you a reason to vote there. It’s understandable but now he’s dead and I gotta figure out if it was an accident or not. When you post I don’t have anything wrong per se but we are too far into the game for me to just count on tone reading you as being good enough and votes are more important to me anyway.

 

SinisterDeath,

You are a struggle this game. I have probably not given you as close a read and reflection as I should but there are a lot of players so it happens sometimes. I think you have been caught up in the irrelevant for sections of the game which makes it hard to read you and provides cover for you to be attacked. I actually don’t remember who you were voting for at the end of D1 now but I do recall Cory pointing out you were your own wagon at one point so maybe there’s hope yet lol

 

Clovdyx,

I still have more stuff to say and even though you say you don’t care I know that you really do. I maintain what I said earlier that in the tangible sense your vote could fall either way still. I question whether I believe you thought that was the best thing to do as you have stated, but only because I think “why the hell would Clov care about any of that over kicking in someone’s teeth?” which is what I think it really boils down to. Outside of the vote you look pretty good but I am not ready to shut the door on this one yet.

 

Verbal,

Where are you? Do we need to send help? You almost have your own circle outside of the outer one. By yourself. Cause you’re not here. Besides that you voted off a villager and were last seen fighting with another before they turned up dead so if the only other thing I have to cross examine that with is nothing…? please post more. Even if it’s to confirm or deny that you vigged Zander.

 

Clov called this rules lawyer-esque  but it’s the kinda thing I’ve been missing. I develop reads mostly on how people see me, and this is both internally consistent over a long period, and it’s the right amount of punchy for the transition in my play today.  Much better than clovs post about me (which btw did anyone read my reply to?).  Something that always stands out to me is if a person kept up with their offhand comments about others in the game and here you refer to them in your read development, that’s very trackable.  If somehow we get late enough into the game to warrant making big choices on that town core, don’t fail to reconsider hally.  I made a big post on her last night which helps highlight that she’s getting a lot of leeway undeservedly this game, and mostly on good tone.
 

*also, of note here for anyone reading this, AJ went out of his way to address each person instead of addressing an audience the way I’m doing here to highlight the difference.  That used to be a hard meta line between t and w AJ, so this is a really good look.

[TrippedOnReality]

@Hallia, can you explain your thought process on why you thought your yeet would have been better than anyalightment!dice?

 

It was the one post you had near EoD I had any issue with, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out why you'd think/say that as any alignment.

[TrippedOnReality]

I have to run to work, but I'll try to check in at lunch.

[Darthe]

Chris and I had almost perfect x post mindmelds at the start of this game.  If this is a wolf game of his, it’s a really good one.  The thing is, I’m kinda betting on it being one. The dudes a great player, and I can see WolfChris making the right reads/statements but lacking the conviction to chase them down in this environment.  

[SinisterDeath]

Query:
If a Doc saves someone, is it typical for the person saved to be notified that they were saved?
Are they typically notified that they're protected, even if wolves or vig didn't try to off them in the night?

Last game was atypical on Doc saves/lynches because things went in the opposite order.
Meaning in the last game (fireball) Mod decided on a light majority over a hard majority in the middle of night phase, after I summited my save, and dice submitted his kill... resulting in my save still going through and then getting lynched. (Hence Dice's saltiness towards last game, and VooDoo backing me as much as he did early game)

 

[Darthe]

I’ve completely lost track of where I am on sinister.  I’ll reread that later, but those of you with a town read on the slot, plz let me know if it’s for anything beyond the interactions he and I had d1.

[Darthe]

9 minutes ago, TrippedOnReality said:

Cory, can you look over my pairs and see if there's any teams you'd like to eliminate as possible?  Also, am I stupid for wanting to add Chris/AJ to the probably not teamed list?

That’s absolutely not a team imo

[Darthe]

You can add darthe/anyone if you’re feeling cheeky

[Darthe]

4 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Query:
If a Doc saves someone, is it typical for the person saved to be notified that they were saved?
Are they typically notified that they're protected, even if wolves or vig didn't try to off them in the night?

Last game was atypical on Doc saves/lynches because things went in the opposite order.
Meaning in the last game (fireball) Mod decided on a light majority over a hard majority in the middle of night phase, after I summited my save, and dice submitted his kill... resulting in my save still going through and then getting lynched. (Hence Dice's saltiness towards last game, and VooDoo backing me as much as he did early game)

 

Lol this is a sick x post.

 

typically no the doc target doesn’t get informed of anything.  
 

I know you’re newer but can you Walk me through your rationale for your dice anti-vote?  I don’t follow that at all.

[whiskey delta]

25 minutes ago, TrippedOnReality said:

I would never claim to be good at reading Chris.  I have never successfully caught scum!Chris based solely on his own content.  I have caught him if he's subbed for someone I already had a scum read on.  That said, since I don't have Chris crucifying mafia yet to make him an easy town read, this feels more like town Chris?  When I think back to the games where Chris was mafia and I was town, there were notable cases where mafia!Chris wanted to yeet one of my town reads (darcstar in PerC house sticks out to me the most) and times where he actively tried to get in the way of an active push on a teammate (BFG in darthes game comes to mind, also him not jumping on mafia!foxes when he was clearly outted in PerC house).  Neither of those have happened so far (i realize it's still early).  I feel our reads line up a lot which is generally ~good, but also means nothing if my reads are trash.  AFAICT, he's coming a lot of the same conclusions for the same reasons as I am, and interacting with him last night I just felt like we were very much on the same page which is also ~good. if we still haven't yeeted mafia and Chris is still alive later in the game, I'll have to seriously reevaluate.

 

And I get where you're coming from with Chris's vote on leelou.  I also thought it was odd given he seemed like he felt okay about leelou, but I've also seen him vote in places that didn't necessarily make sense on the surface to get something going as town.  I knew he wasn't going to be back before EoD and there wasn't really anything happening.  So I was willing to wait and see how it panned out.  I don't think the vote itself means anything for his alignment outside of him pretty much never being teamed with leelou.

thank you for answering.

 

Clov said he did it because he didn’t have better suspects and it could lead to something which is on that line of plausibility but still in that territory where I think it’s gray. I will say I think it’s unfair that I condemn him on the basis of a player being town that I don’t know yet so that’s where my adjustment comes in but I do agree with your conclusion on Leelou/Clov either way.

[Darthe]

14 hours ago, TrippedOnReality said:

This is what I had for notes last night anti-teams.  These are entirely independent of any reads I had on anyone and based entirely on interactions with each other:

 

voodoo/SD

AJ/hallia

hallia/leelou????

hallia/darthe

AJ/leelou??

darthe/voodoo

SD/Verb
SD/Chris?????

SD/leelou

cory/hallia??

Chris/leelou

voodoo/hallia???

 

dead anti-teams:

dice/SD
dice/hallia
zander/verb
zander/SD

 

I'm not going to explain all of them, but I'm going to explain the question mark ones and if anyone has any questions or disagrees with the others, lmk and we can talk through it.

 

I was most unsure about SD/Chris because I hate making anti-pairs on anything Chris says.  I absolutely think he could have made that post defending SD as either alignment, and probably would make that post as either alignment.  I still don't think he would let his newbie teammate be that clueless about how the game of mafia works.

 

voodoo/hallia is another one I had trouble with because I could see in a world where hallia thinks she's going to get yeeted, she tells newbie voodoo to vote there for town cred, and if she doesn't get yeeted, they look a lot less like teammates.  I do not think voodoo would probably vote there without hallia specifically telling him and I have no idea how hallia feels about bussing/being bussed.  So if someone could enlighten me on that, that'd be great.

 

hallia/leelou was odd to me because everyone thought they were teamed, but leelou dropped their first actual read on hallia as a light town read.  the number of times i've seen a teammate town read their teammate out of the gate, even a light town read, is not a ton.

 

AJ/leelou I took Chris's read to heart on AJ here where he thought it was super unlikely that AJ just throws out a townread on a teammate super early the way he did.

 

Cory/hallia was largely vote based.  Cory had no reason to move his vote to hallia, especially when a couple of people still need to place votes, and then let zander to decide where to vote.  It just seems unnecessarily risky when you have a perfectly viable misyeet in dice.

 

 

 

[SinisterDeath]

Just now, Darthe said:

Lol this is a sick x post.

 

typically no the doc target doesn’t get informed of anything.  
 

I know you’re newer but can you Walk me through your rationale for your dice anti-vote?  I don’t follow that at all.

  

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

I was anti-voting with Zander, so my vote was on Dice. 

 

Zander wanted to hammer someone, I wanted it to go Random. I didn't get in before vote count to take it off dice and put in on Hallia. 

 

I was right that Dice wasn't wolf, and I do have regrets not moving it off him earlier. 

 

As I said, Zander was dead set on hammering someone, and didn't want it to go Random.
I really wanted it to go Random. (See dice roll early on first pages)

I thought Dice was a villager, but some of ya'll made convincing enough arguments on both wagons that either Hallia or Dice could be Wolf. They could have both been Villagers.

I could have refused to vote, but I still had my suspicions (at the time) that Hallia could be wolf. Chances were, you were all going to vote dice with or without me. So I was trying to tip it in favor of Random vote, but didn't get online fast enough to switch it back to Hallia.

[Darthe]

13 hours ago, TrippedOnReality said:

my reads are something like this:

 

town:

Darthe - LDO

Cory - doc claim, plus I feel like we've been agreeing on a lot.  I also noticed the way AJ completely flipped on hallia and had a lot of the same questions he did.  

 

probably town:

Voodoo - i feel like they've been super pure this entire game, if they are somehow mafia, then lolme i guess.

SD - i hate this, but it is what it is.

 

light town:

hallia - I thought her end of day looked pretty good on reread.  she had the same tone as she did when she was getting ran up in the cat mafia game.  I also have a lot of anti pairs for her.

leelou?  - I thought leelou's tone has been pretty good today and I like that activity today. I had a town read on them earlier and even though it was waning a bit going into EoD yesterday, I feel better about them today again.

 

IDK:

Chris - I don't think he's done anything outside of his wolf range, and him not being on a wagon did not help me much.  I also understand his schedule constraints.  I have agreed with a lot of the takes he's had but that's not uncommon regardless of his alignment.  

Verb - hasn't had a ton of time in the thread so I'm having a hard time getting a handle on him.  Thought his entrance and frustration with getting sussed yesterday seemed okay, but I'm going to need more.

AJ - AJ's 180 on hallia kind of threw me for a loop and I wasn't feeling particularly great about him going into EoD yesterday.  I agreed with a lot of what Cory said when he was questioning AJ about his flip on hallia earlier.  

 

 

 

 

[whiskey delta]

24 minutes ago, TrippedOnReality said:

 

Is there more to your leelou/verb anti pairing or is it just based on voting?  I recall them interacting but nothing sticks out off the top of my head that would make them unlikely to be aligned.  I'll have to read back tonight when I get home from work.

No pretty much that so it’s one of the weaker anti-team tells but worth considering later if needed. They are going to interact no matter what because we expect that from them to a degree. I think it really depends on the setup and whether this game is mountainous or not 

[Darthe]

Okay these two sinister posts are better than I thought.  To me the game is really clearing up.  I think lynch clov/hally/sinister and if the game isn’t over it’s one of leelou/verb so cop those two.

 

vote clov

[Darthe]

^these two tripped posts, not sinister posts.  The ones I quoted.

[whiskey delta]

25 minutes ago, Darthe said:

*also, of note here for anyone reading this, AJ went out of his way to address each person instead of addressing an audience the way I’m doing here to highlight the difference.  That used to be a hard meta line between t and w AJ, so this is a really good look.

This is a good read no matter your alignment. It means absolutely nothing for me to say this but I also think I’m beginning to climb out of my wolf range.

 

irt Hallia I understand your rational. The problem is that I look at her in totality and I still am not sure barring the no-claim move. I really question why Hally makes some of her D1 posts as scum but I also don’t love that method of evaluation because words are less important than action imo. Diligence is good but I would also note that I see what you are doing and in the world where you are a wolf trying to crater my town core and keep one of them on the table this raises your equity. Hally/Darthe are definitely not a team.

[Hallia]

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

FYI, if the quotes are being a PITA, you can click the "share" button, and copy/paste the post url and it'll at least be a quazi-imbedded quote.

Thank you!

29 minutes ago, TrippedOnReality said:

@Hallia, can you explain your thought process on why you thought your yeet would have been better than anyalightment!dice?

 

It was the one post you had near EoD I had any issue with, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out why you'd think/say that as any alignment.

Because of precisely what's happening now, I think mine would've given more information - p much everyone was taking stances wrt me.  Dice hasn't contributed a whole lot and I think his flip didn't give a lot of information

[Darthe]

4 minutes ago, whiskey delta said:

This is a good read no matter your alignment. It means absolutely nothing for me to say this but I also think I’m beginning to climb out of my wolf range.

 

irt Hallia I understand your rational. The problem is that I look at her in totality and I still am not sure barring the no-claim move. I really question why Hally makes some of her D1 posts as scum but I also don’t love that method of evaluation because words are less important than action imo. Diligence is good but I would also note that I see what you are doing and in the world where you are a wolf trying to crater my town core and keep one of them on the table this raises your equity. Hally/Darthe are definitely not a team.

I have the luxury of not waffling on my own slot.  It really clears the game up to do that 🙂

[whiskey delta]

24 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Query:
If a Doc saves someone, is it typical for the person saved to be notified that they were saved?
Are they typically notified that they're protected, even if wolves or vig didn't try to off them in the night?

Last game was atypical on Doc saves/lynches because things went in the opposite order.
Meaning in the last game (fireball) Mod decided on a light majority over a hard majority in the middle of night phase, after I summited my save, and dice submitted his kill... resulting in my save still going through and then getting lynched. (Hence Dice's saltiness towards last game, and VooDoo backing me as much as he did early game)

I don’t mean this the wrong way but Fireball was not the most cleanly run game. Retroactively lynching you was because of Zander getting upset that we noLimmed D1 and I think Arie was being generous granting your protection to Make up for that fact which hurt Dice in the long run.

 

The important facet here is that if Verb claIms a vig shot on Zander then it means Cory successfully blocked a scum kill on Darthe (barring an exact Darthe/Verbal team that takes this bit and runs home with it) but I also kinda doubt there’s many roles in this game. Generally speaking a person would not be informed they were protected or saved. Only the wolves know who they shot at and only the doc knows who they protected without any claims coming out.