Accents in the Show

[Humbugged2]

On 2/7/2022 at 3:41 PM, AdamA said:

I'm not convinced they're really worrying about it. Priyanka Bose and Álvaro Morte just aren't native English speakers and I don't think they can do an accent that isn't their natural accent. Maybe they'll try to cast all Indians as Arafellins and Spanish as Ghealdanin at least for recurring characters, but not for redshirts. Deal with it. Richard Madden and Sophie Turner didn't sound much like each other. Neither did Hugo Weaving and Liv Tyler, or Sean Bean and David Wenham. Actors have limits. They didn't look much like each other, either.

Priyanka was on an ITV  show last year in The Good Karma Hospital . With the Indians a lot of who they have cast are British nationals like Eggy's mom and Meera Syal

[Gypsum]

On 2/8/2022 at 7:15 AM, EmreY said:

In all this discussion of accents, how is it that no-one mentions the Universal Translator aspect of having averyone across an entire continent speaking the same language?  Even if they all spoke the same before the Breaking, that and the wars and splintering that followed would have created far greater divergences than after, say, the fall of Western Rome (and double the time has passed since the Breaking).

 

Babel fish, clearly. Douglas Adams was on to something.

[Jsbrads2]

There are two reasons to mix existing cultures vs inventing new cultures.

1. You already know what chopsticks are so this decreases exposition.

2. Their world is our world, so it maintains continuity to keep existing cultural markers.

[notpropaganda73]

On 2/8/2022 at 10:01 PM, Andra said:

 

One of the ways Jordan minimized that effect was by having various periods throughout that 3,000 years of history where the nations were all in regular contact with each other - even having a single empire unifying the entire continent for a time.  Even at the present time, there is trade via river and ocean that spans everything from the Borderlands to the Sea of Storms.  And the effect of the White Tower would be similar.

 

In real life, it wouldn't be enough, but it would have at least some ameliorating effect.

 

Another thing would be the effect of the underlying history of the Old Tongue in every current land.  Kind of the way all the Romance languages today are at least somewhat mutually intelligible, even though they are clearly different.

 

It also wouldn't be enough in real life, but I don't think I've ever encountered a work of fantasy that handles languages realistically.  Lord of the Rings explored languages more than most, but that was Tolkien's avocation.  But even in Middle Earth, everyone could talk to each other - and they all started out different.

 

It's actually something Game of Thrones did better than others, with different lands having different languages.  And the Mother of Dragons needing an interpreter.

 

I'm a nerd for languages so it's always been a bit disappointing to me that we don't see more exploration of it in fantasy, but I know that investment in story and characters are way way WAY more important. And I know that others enjoy fantasy for the escape from the real world, but I've always loved it for how it reflects the real world and can teach us things about our world through the medium of a fantastical setting - and similarly with language and cultures, I think those differences and how the language you speak literally changes how your brain works and how you think (even how you perceive things like time), has huge scope for interesting things in fantasy - but it's insanely difficult to pull off so I don't really blame writers for leaving it well alone xD It's just the language nerd in me being selfish and wanting more ha. You're right that Tolkien was without a doubt an exception here, although I'm an Irish speaker so while I love Tolkien's works I've always been a bit sad that he didn't have a love for my language like he did for others! 

 

This article is pretty interesting: https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/4/2/18267808/pop-culture-conlangs-constructed-languages-dothraki-navi-klingon-elvish 

[Dagon Thyne]

Ofically, Illian is supposed to have a Dutch accent, but most people think it sounds more like Westcountry accents from England.

 

The Seanchan are supposed to have Texan accent.

 

The Two Rivers are supposed to have Irish accents, as are western Andor, such as Baerlon.  Though I always pictured the TR as having more of a Welsh accent, which would make it distinct like it is supposed to be in the books.  It would also play off of the fact that they are famous for their longbows, and the Welsh were the ones who created the longbow, and used ones much like the Two Rivers bows, and were famous for their skill.  

 

I always picured Tear as having Spanish accents to go with their oiled bearded and clearly spanish based culture.  They were one of the few countries that had a culture that heavily resembled an actualy real world culture.......peasents not being allowed to carry weapons....nobles can rape and steal from peasants with impunity......famous for their horses, olives/olive oil, and wine.........pretty much everything about Tear screams  Spain.  

[Elgee]

I hope they make all the Aiel speak in Australian outback accents. I can't think of anyone more suited to the Aiel Waste.

[Raal Gurniss]

On 5/2/2022 at 1:24 PM, Elgee said:

I hope they make all the Aiel speak in Australian outback accents. I can't think of anyone more suited to the Aiel Waste.

Seems unlikely given the lack of any regional accents so far.

[Humbugged2]

14 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

Seems unlikely given the lack of any regional accents so far.

 

 2 Scots in the cast using a Scots accent with another one to come (and that one with a Dundee accent which will be a hoot  eh ). 2 Spaniards playing Ghealdani's

Edited May 4, 2022 by Humbugged2

[WhiteVeils]

They have said specifically that the accents for each area have been set up around the the accent of the primary actor or actress who is in that area, in general.  So Ghaeldan accent is what it is because Morte's accent is Spanish. Smaller actors in the area (like the King of Ghealdan) then adapt to the regional accent.

[Raal Gurniss]

17 hours ago, Humbugged2 said:

 

 2 Scots in the cast using a Scots accent with another one to come (and that one with a Dundee accent which will be a hoot  eh ). 2 Spaniards playing Ghealdani's

 

....No Scotland though...No Spain...

 

And 2 people with shared accent does not a region make...Wouldn't Two Rivers Folk share a distinct different accent to Morraine, Lan, Fain, the Aes Sedai as a whole? Or Tar Valon population?  
 

It is what it is...Not saying it's bad, not saying it's good I'm just saying there is little to no regional accent or any real cultural difference...Certainly been no wide eyed wonder from a group of sheltered young adults whose lives have been spent in a small rural village.

[DojoToad]

Accents wouldn't matter to me unless it was super obvious - Welsh, Jamaican, and Russian in the same isolated village.  Otherwise I could probably roll okay.  I'm generally the same with music.

[Humbugged2]

5 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

They have said specifically that the accents for each area have been set up around the the accent of the primary actor or actress who is in that area, in general.  So Ghaeldan accent is what it is because Morte's accent is Spanish. Smaller actors in the area (like the King of Ghealdan) then adapt to the regional accent.

Miguel Álvarez ( the King) is also Spanish

[Andra]

3 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

 

....No Scotland though...No Spain...

 

And 2 people with shared accent does not a region make...Wouldn't Two Rivers Folk share a distinct different accent to Morraine, Lan, Fain, the Aes Sedai as a whole? Or Tar Valon population?  
 

It is what it is...Not saying it's bad, not saying it's good I'm just saying there is little to no regional accent or any real cultural difference...Certainly been no wide eyed wonder from a group of sheltered young adults whose lives have been spent in a small rural village.

Actually, the city of Ghealdan was filmed in Spain.  Segovia, specifically.  So Logain and the King's accents work there.

 

Ayoola Smart is actually Irish, and had a distinct accent in the stuff of hers that I've seen.  So some mix of Scots/Irish/Welsh/etc. might work for the various Aiel characters.

[Humbugged2]

3 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

 

....No Scotland though...No Spain...

 

And 2 people with shared accent does not a region make...Wouldn't Two Rivers Folk share a distinct different accent to Morraine, Lan, Fain, the Aes Sedai as a whole? Or Tar Valon population?  
 

It is what it is...Not saying it's bad, not saying it's good I'm just saying there is little to no regional accent or any real cultural difference...Certainly been no wide eyed wonder from a group of sheltered young adults whose lives have been spent in a small rural village.

Ghealdan is credited as being Spain .

 

Tar Valon has a mixed population same as the Sisters so we have 4 English - 1 who went to school at a posh West Country school,1 from the Midlands,1 who studied at RADA,and 1 from Saath of the river  , 1 Indian at the minute and now 2 Scots from different places in Scotland ,Moraine's Sitter is from Galashields and Katie Lueng but both trained in Edinburgh , notice the difference between Katie and Rose Leslie who she grew up 60 miles away but Rose was sent to a  posh school in France and the deep West Country and Katie went to the private school in my home town (used to be a techer training college and Gianni Capaldi went there too) and grew up 3 miles from me . And Zuki Hoyle was a Weegie like me (sort of ) . Accents can change across a short distance in the UK . 10 miles away from me reaaaaly different accents

 

 

The Tinkers are mainly Irish (and so are New Mat and Avi) and there has been a load of Scandis playing roles

 

So unless you were going to hire all the Two Rivers from 1 tiny,tiny area they were never going to sound alike . Rosumund/Clair Perkins come from 10 miles apart but class in a thing in the UK, so the daughter of two opera singer sound different than an actress from south of the river  . But all speak English and in Oz/ NZ they teach the acting pupils to do RP ,and the rest are from England except Eggys dad who is Oz as well  ,Rand who is Dutch where they all speak English and Mat mother who is from the States

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Humbugged2

[Humbugged2]

4 minutes ago, Andra said:

Actually, the city of Ghealdan was filmed in Spain.  Segovia, specifically.  So Logain and the King's accents work there.

 

Ayoola Smart is actually Irish, and had a distinct accent in the stuff of hers that I've seen.  So some mix of Scots/Irish/Welsh/etc. might work for the various Aiel characters.

 

And all the Tinkers were also Irish

[Andra]

23 minutes ago, Humbugged2 said:

 

And all the Tinkers were also Irish

Aram and Ila are Irish.  Raen is from the West Midlands.

[Raal Gurniss]

15 hours ago, Humbugged2 said:

Ghealdan is credited as being Spain .

 

Tar Valon has a mixed population same as the Sisters so we have 4 English - 1 who went to school at a posh West Country school,1 from the Midlands,1 who studied at RADA,and 1 from Saath of the river  , 1 Indian at the minute and now 2 Scots from different places in Scotland ,Moraine's Sitter is from Galashields and Katie Lueng but both trained in Edinburgh , notice the difference between Katie and Rose Leslie who she grew up 60 miles away but Rose was sent to a  posh school in France and the deep West Country and Katie went to the private school in my home town (used to be a techer training college and Gianni Capaldi went there too) and grew up 3 miles from me . And Zuki Hoyle was a Weegie like me (sort of ) . Accents can change across a short distance in the UK . 10 miles away from me reaaaaly different accents

 

 

The Tinkers are mainly Irish (and so are New Mat and Avi) and there has been a load of Scandis playing roles

 

So unless you were going to hire all the Two Rivers from 1 tiny,tiny area they were never going to sound alike . Rosumund/Clair Perkins come from 10 miles apart but class in a thing in the UK, so the daughter of two opera singer sound different than an actress from south of the river  . But all speak English and in Oz/ NZ they teach the acting pupils to do RP ,and the rest are from England except Eggys dad who is Oz as well  ,Rand who is Dutch where they all speak English and Mat mother who is from the States

 

Well...Here is the mixing of reality and fantasy though....The fictional existing nations are several thousands of years distant from the real long dead nations,  accents change within decades and given the multiple extensive turmoil English wouldn't even be a recognisable dialect anymore never mind the multitude variation of accents it has....Given the reduced level in communication such as TV and Radio and limited travel options accents would differ to a degree every days walking distance apart.

 

 

It was a choice the showrunners made, it has many benefits it's certainly cheaper, more inclusive and opens up the casting pool on the other hand it comes at a cost in verisimilitude and makes things a bit cringe worthy when they then factionalise other groups with stereotypes and accents.

 

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Accents wouldn't matter to me unless it was super obvious - Welsh, Jamaican, and Russian in the same isolated village.  Otherwise I could probably roll okay.  I'm generally the same with music.

Well point I was making was that there are little to no regional accents whatsoever anyway...Which isn't a major problem, until the subject is raised and people pretend that the show does have wide scale regional casting or accents..

 

Half the shows/movies I have watched have similar things I don't have issue watching a poorly dubbed movie/series or reading the subtitles where I wouldn't notice the variational accents or even understand the spoken language.

 

 

 

[Humbugged2]

2 hours ago, Andra said:

Aram and Ila are Irish.  Raen is from the West Midlands.

 

So him ,Liandrin,Eggy's mom , and whoever Meera is all come from a small area in England ,all with different accents

 

ETA

 

And Marcus is from the East Midlands with another completely different accent

Edited May 6, 2022 by Humbugged2

[Andra]

4 hours ago, Humbugged2 said:

 

So him ,Liandrin,Eggy's mom , and whoever Meera is all come from a small area in England ,all with different accents

 

ETA

 

And Marcus is from the East Midlands with another completely different accent

And none of those are Aiel, which was the subject of the conversation.

 

The question was, IF the Aiel have a consistent shared accent, could it be Scots or something similar?

East Midlands isn't really "something similar."  But to most non-native speakers, Irish could be.

[Humbugged2]

8 hours ago, Andra said:

And none of those are Aiel, which was the subject of the conversation.

 

The question was, IF the Aiel have a consistent shared accent, could it be Scots or something similar?

East Midlands isn't really "something similar."  But to most non-native speakers, Irish could be.

Dublin,Belfast,Kerry,Cork all completely different accents. In 1 case because Irish and Ullans sound nothing like each other and are a different language

Edinburgh,Glasgow,Aberdeen,Dundee all completey different accent

Nottingham accent sounds nothing like a Brummy

 

A lot of it is  class as Rose Leslie and Tunji Kasim(Nancy Drew) sound nothing alike even though they were born in the same hospital ,in the same year

 

So it goes

Gaelic    - Irish and Scottish are different

Scots      - Ullans , Dorric , Lallans all different

English  - where 10 mins away from me somebody can sound different throught   the area they live ,to class where Rosumund and OG Mat sound nothing like each other despite growing up in the same City. And NG Mat will sound nothing like Avi as one is from Dublin and the other is from Cork . Or me sounding different from a Weegie when I grew up 8 miles away

 

ETA and no the topic had went into 'Why do all the TR people sound different' and I was explaining that 1 town over from me has a different accent

Edited May 6, 2022 by Humbugged2

[Humbugged2]

14 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

Well...Here is the mixing of reality and fantasy though....The fictional existing nations are several thousands of years distant from the real long dead nations,  accents change within decades and given the multiple extensive turmoil English wouldn't even be a recognisable dialect anymore never mind the multitude variation of accents it has....Given the reduced level in communication such as TV and Radio and limited travel options accents would differ to a degree every days walking distance apart.

 

 

It was a choice the showrunners made, it has many benefits it's certainly cheaper, more inclusive and opens up the casting pool on the other hand it comes at a cost in verisimilitude and makes things a bit cringe worthy when they then factionalise other groups with stereotypes and accents.

 

 

 

 

 

Well point I was making was that there are little to no regional accents whatsoever anyway...Which isn't a major problem, until the subject is raised and people pretend that the show does have wide scale regional casting or accents..

 

Half the shows/movies I have watched have similar things I don't have issue watching a poorly dubbed movie/series or reading the subtitles where I wouldn't notice the variational accents or even understand the spoken language.

 

 

 

As I said they cast most of them are from England/Scotland/Ireland or the former colonies where actors all learn to do RP like most do in acting schools in the UK

 

And hundreds of years ago people developed their accents from 1 place to the next ,where Weegies sound nothing like me but I grew up 8 miles from Tollcross , the English ones grew up in the Midland where Brummies sound nothing like people from Stoke or Stratford-Upon-Avon . All this without TV's

[Raal Gurniss]

1 hour ago, Humbugged2 said:

As I said they cast most of them are from England/Scotland/Ireland or the former colonies where actors all learn to do RP like most do in acting schools in the UK

 

And hundreds of years ago people developed their accents from 1 place to the next ,where Weegies sound nothing like me but I grew up 8 miles from Tollcross , the English ones grew up in the Midland where Brummies sound nothing like people from Stoke or Stratford-Upon-Avon . All this without TV's

Which reinforces what I say surely? 
 

There should be a massive divide in language and custom in reality, in Jordans books this is toned down but still noticeable, in the show its not really a thing.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Raal Gurniss
Typo.

[Humbugged2]

28 minutes ago, Raal Gurniss said:

Which reinforces what I say surely? 
 

There should be a massive divide in language and custom in reality, in Jordans books this is toned down but still noticeable, in the show its not really a thing.

 

Not really people got their accents before TV it would have made no difference .

 

Unless you cast from a reaaaly small micro area is was always going to be the case. Like I said 3 miles way from me it's a very different accent.

 

And all the NZ/Aus/Indian/Brit/Irish actors speak RP anyway if the were taught in an Acting School so anywhere you go they are all speaking the same to begin with ,as it is how they are trained

Edited May 6, 2022 by Humbugged2

[CaddySedai]

In many ways I am glad they are not attempting a wide variety of accents. Far too often have I heard absolute terrible accent attempts by actors in tv and film. So much so I had to call the police because I was witnessing a murder.

[Humbugged2]

6 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

In many ways I am glad they are not attempting a wide variety of accents. Far too often have I heard absolute terrible accent attempts by actors in tv and film. So much so I had to call the police because I was witnessing a murder.

Sometimes it works but mostly it does not . I give you Christophe Lambear (Highlander) and Jessica Lange (Rob Roy) terrible ,most of Outlander where you had Dutch,Irish,English actors trying to do an Inverness accent

 

Or Chris Pine /Aaron T-Johnson in Outlaw King where they gave it a good shot