Expectations for Combat in the series

[Daenelia]

@JaimAybara That was a wall of text, but I do get it (I really did read it).

 

And one could argue as well, on your point, that the people from the same region (or the same unit, which - if we take hired men / mercenaries into account) would need a way to recognise each other by outfit or something, because otherwise friendly fire - what is the equivalent of that term for non-fire arms units?? - would happen frequently.

 

But as an audience I also think we are the outsiders looking at the armies/units, and not being able to see what connects them. If you take fans of a team who wear the same colours, as in Ajax FC and Middlesbrough FC, I bet it would be hard for non-soccer (... football) fans to tell them apart, but the groups themselves would know without a doubt.

 

But Logain's army, we don't really know how it was built up. Did he gather just people from one region? Did they answer the call from all over the continent, like adventuring people?

 

I am counting on more details and information in future episodes ? It will be fun extrapolating things.

 

Also: for all the diversity and women, did anyone notice how many women fought with Logain's army and how that was in the books? Because I don't think I saw many. Or any?

[Elder_Haman]

15 minutes ago, Daenelia said:

But Logain's army, we don't really know how it was built up.

I also think that they are dealing with a somewhat quaint use of the word army. Especially compared to the forces that are about to be unleashed. I got the feeling that his 'army' was mostly just a rabble of disaffected folk and wasn't all that large.

[DaddyFinn]

Sooooo.. if the Blood Snow fight is the base quality for Aiel we are in for a delicious treat. It was (one of) the best close combat 1vX fights I've seen (on TV). Top tier movie quality.

[Sabio]

I am guessing the standard will be the Tarwin's Gap fight, that will be the big army vs army battle.  I'm curious how they will handle the Aiel in bigger fight scenes.  Especially if they have Aiel vs Aiel.  They have set the bar pretty high.

[king of nowhere]

I will repost here what I wrote about the blood snow fighting in the episode thread, because it's relevant here.

 

I have only watched the initial blood snow sequence, because i have to watch the episode sunday with friends and i'd rather watch it fresh. but i wanted to see the tigraine fight.

 

And I must say, it's one of the very best fight sequences I've ever seen in a movie. granted, I don't watch many movies, so it doesn't count as much.

 

but still, extremely believable. people were moving in realistic ways. extremely clear; you can understand what's happening there. the combat style, she's really dancing around. double wielding short spears is a bit unheard of, but it works magnifically for the 3 on 1 fight, allowing tigraine to block and attack multiple foes. you don't see the soldiers engaging tigraine one at a time, like you see in many witcher fights. they all go for her, and dual wielding allows her to believably face multiple attack. the combat style, jumping around a lot to avoid being surrounded and cornered, also feels very realistic for the best way to face multiple opponents.

we even see a helmet being useful in deflecting a strike - and all fatal hits are delivered on areas left uncovered, at most through the leather parts.

tigraine unveils for a reason, and - even knowing book aiels would much rather risk death than go unveiled - it does not feel wrong for her to finish fighting with her veil down.

the whole scene oozes aiel badassery, just like it should. Magnificent. if that's what they got for hiring an expert of medieval combat, the guy is well worth his salary.

 

only black spot: at 2:58, when she trips the soldier with her spears, it shows clearly that he started jumping before she started twisting her arms; not that she had the kind of leverage to actually pull that manuever in that position. that's the only move that felt staged.

[JaimAybara]

Not sure if this is the right place, but do we have any archers/bow hunters who can inform me on whether or not Rand has very few arrows in his quiver? Haha, might be a nitpick but I keep thinking, “please get more arrows. What did you do leave them at the archery range in Fal Dara?”  But I’m no expert regarding how many arrows one is supposed to have in a quiver modern or otherwise. 

[TheMountain]

24 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

Not sure if this is the right place, but do we have any archers/bow hunters who can inform me on whether or not Rand has very few arrows in his quiver? Haha, might be a nitpick but I keep thinking, “please get more arrows. What did you do leave them at the archery range in Fal Dara?”  But I’m no expert regarding how many arrows one is supposed to have in a quiver modern or otherwise. 

Have no fear, Rand's quiver will never run out, unless required by the plot ? 

[JaimAybara]

11 minutes ago, TheMountain said:

Have no fear, Rand's quiver will never run out, unless required by the plot ? 

It has bothered me since I think episode 3 when I see them walk into the bar and he only has 3 or maybe 4?  *(in some shots it even looks like 2-3)* But again, I am not familiar with what is standard. It just reminds me of six shooters in movies that never get reloaded but end up shooting 7 or 8 people. Like I said, nitpick, but I think it could turn into a continuity error if they aren’t careful. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by JaimAybara
Rewatched for added detail

[ArrylT]

1 hour ago, JaimAybara said:

It has bothered me since I think episode 3 when I see them walk into the bar and he only has 3 or maybe 4?  *(in some shots it even looks like 2-3)* But again, I am not familiar with what is standard. It just reminds me of six shooters in movies that never get reloaded but end up shooting 7 or 8 people. Like I said, nitpick, but I think it could turn into a continuity error if they aren’t careful. 

 

Maybe more about bowhunting than you really want to know:

 

https://www.bowhunting.com/bowhunt101/how-many-arrows-do-you-need-in-the-quiver/

 

But answer seems to be 4-7 for a quiver.  

[Jaysen Gore]

Two things about the quiver - you can't have too many in there because the broadheads would rub against each other with every step dulling them . And too many and they would get hung up trying to draw them quickly, which matters when hunting for dinner.

 

I would expect someone to carry 20 or so on a packhorse if they have one, but for the most part, a person in the woods would expect to retrieve most of their arrows. Good arrows are expensive, or so some former second captain explains at the Fields of Merrilor, so you don't need many.

 

Shooting from a defensive position is a different discussion entirely, hence people running baskets of arrows at Winterfall for example.

[AdamA]

I loved that the blood snow scene showed why you usually don't want to wear a cloak in combat. I can't remember now some show or book recently that talked about this.

[TheSmurf]

1 hour ago, AdamA said:

I loved that the blood snow scene showed why you usually don't want to wear a cloak in combat. I can't remember now some show or book recently that talked about this.

 

[Jaysen Gore]

8 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

Just FYI, I'm an avid recurve bowhunter. I don't carry a sling quiver but I always have one arrow nocked and three mounted in the bow quiver. Granted I do this for hunting but I make my arrows with large fletching, typically turkey feathers, and so that is one of many reasons why I do not carry 5+ arrows... much less a sling quiver.

 

Combat field archers are more likely fitted a little differently. Garrisoned archers even more so.

While I support this position, English Yew Longbows (or Two Rivers Longbows, if you will) do not support bow mounted quivers. Hence the demonstrated 4-7 shafts in a sling quiver that are appearing in the show. assuming of course, you're not constantly nocked when you walk through the woods with no intention to shoot.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Jaysen Gore

[JaimAybara]

2 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

A very good point indeed. I failed to consider that.

To the both of you, thank you. I honestly didn’t have any expertise on the matter so this clears things up. 

[KakitaOCU]

One other thing to consider is that if you have the weapon for personal defense what is your accurate range and how many shafts can you loose before someone could sprint that.

Now I know 2R folk are accurate at long ranges, but that's in volley and I imagine there's still some misses.  So glancing at more realistic touches let's say 100 yards give or take?  I imagine someone of Rand's calibre can get off around 6-7 shafts in the time it would take someone to close.

If you haven't finished the fight at this point a bow is a poor weapon to keep going with.  So combine that with being a moderately good fletcher and making serious efforts to recover your arrows and the quiver makes plenty of sense.

[Sabio]

I also have noticed so far that few people have used shields.  None of the Companions had shields, not sure Logain's "army" had any.  Not that we have much to go on, but shields don't seem popular.

[Jaysen Gore]

9 hours ago, Sabio said:

I also have noticed so far that few people have used shields.  None of the Companions had shields, not sure Logain's "army" had any.  Not that we have much to go on, but shields don't seem popular.

There was a shield in Episode 4, but the reality is the sword forms in the books are all 2 handed. So anyone who's good won't have a shield. Our other two heroes might someday get their weapons, all 2 handed, as well. Also, I expect they'll avoid the viking axe / shield combo since there's so much out there right now.