How did the show hold up for you?

[WoTwasThat]

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

There is not a lot of reason to assume this.  The words Saidin and Saidar have been said.  Moiraince said the Sa'angreal was made by MEN channeling their power into it.  There is not any evidence that women would be able to use it, otherwise why didn't Moiraine use it when defending the TR.

With all this poop around, there’s gotta be a pony somewhere!!

 

It is inexcusable that they went eight hours without explaining a dichotomy that is like the single most fundamental rule to books. Important? Nah, maybe they’ll explain it next season. Check the bonus materials!

 

Really bad sign. 

[DaddyFinn]

Non-book audience should know by this point that the male magic got tainted/corrupted by the Big Bad 3000 years ago, that caused the Breaking because after corruption men who use magic go mad. They are still hunted down and either killed or the magic is taken away from them and they lose their will to live. They should also know that women who use magic do not experience any of that.

[RextheDog]

5 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

In this instance it’s not such a small inconsistency.

 

i love the internet

[Fatdog96]

I’ve read the books dozens of times.  They are my all time favorites.  The tv series let me down.  I just find it hard to swallow all of the modern opinions of the day seeping into this wonderful world that RJ created.  I understand that changes have to be made to fit this series into a show format but making Moiraine and Siuan lovers, Perrin being married and killing his wife, questions about who the Dragon actually was, leaving out pivotal characters and meetings on the journey and many other things really chaps my behind.  Can’t Hollywood just follow the books.  Like one person already said, the first 4 seasons of GoT, Harry Potter and LotR did it to much fanfare and success.  Others that have ventured out on their own are too often considered inferior or even failures.  I’m hoping season 2 will quit with the political correctness and follow the format that RJ left them.

[Gothic Flame]

29 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

 

i love the internet

Some days..  .

[Gothic Flame]

Just now, Fatdog96 said:

I’m hoping season 2 will quit with the political correctness and follow the format that RJ left them.

I'm certain it's already too late. Rafe & Co. are almost finished with the 2nd season. And it's supposed to start with  Moiraine dealing with being stilled.

[WoTwasThat]

1 hour ago, Gothic Flame said:

I'm certain it's already too late. Rafe & Co. are almost finished with the 2nd season. And it's supposed to start with  Moiraine dealing with being stilled.

Also, let’s see… Mat is in Tar Valon being hunted by the Reds. Rand is headed off into the Blight on a Spirit Quest. Perrin is… doing his Perrin thing. Loial is dead (oh but wait we were only supposed to think that for 72hrs before Rafe told us he isn’t really dead).

 

Season 2 will bear about as much resemblance to TGH as Season 1 bore to EOTW. Think “inspired by.”

[Skipp]

3 hours ago, Fatdog96 said:

Moiraine and Siuan lovers,

They were lovers in the books, just separated by the time tEotW starts. 

[fra85uk]

2 hours ago, Skipp said:

They were lovers in the books, just separated by the time tEotW starts. 

For precision: they were pillow friends dreaming of marrying a man capable to love a woman with great power.

 

But i don't mind they in this turn they decided to change this, i only mind that we had to suffer a full episode on this made up subplot with cringey scenes of oath-swearing (a 4th oath!!)

 

 

[fra85uk]

8 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Non-book audience should know by this point that the male magic got tainted/corrupted by the Big Bad 3000 years ago, that caused the Breaking because after corruption men who use magic go mad. They are still hunted down and either killed or the magic is taken away from them and they lose their will to live. They should also know that women who use magic do not experience any of that.

And at this point they should also know why.

[MasterAblar]

20 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

For precision: they were pillow friends dreaming of marrying a man capable to love a woman with great power.

 

But i don't mind they in this turn they decided to change this, i only mind that we had to suffer a full episode on this made up subplot with cringey scenes of oath-swearing (a 4th oath!!)

 

Yeah I was fine with this, it adds a layer to their relationship.

 

Although I do think it’s a shame to lose Moiraine’s “married to her quest” aspect, where she has no room for anything else.

[notpropaganda73]

I think Moiraine being married to her quest will still happen, but the relationship with Siuan makes her more relatable to the audience. It can be hard to relate to someone who is just purely driven by a high ideal, when you mix in that personal element and sacrifice it becomes easier. 

 

I'm also laughing at a post complaining about political correctness and inserting Perrin and his wife to that list. It's so PC to kill your wife for your own character development these days! (I understand this wasn't the point, it just made me laugh, please don't quote this post with a long rebuttal explaining how the show is woke etc) 

 

[Deviations]

I've been a fan of Yellowstone over the last couple of years.  I think it's a great, compelling show with solid acting and excellent casting.

 

I just started watching its prequel 1883 and it brought home to me how poorly WoT stands up.  In comparison, the acting on WoT is comical - even Rosamund Pike's.  Character development is non-existent.  Music underwhelms.  Sets underwhelm.  Casting on Wot is jarring.  My wife (who has not read WoT) rates 1883 a 10 and W0T a 3.  She's only watching it at this point because I am.  Watching WoT reminds me of the cartoon version of the hobbit.  Puke.

 

I understand that a western is a different animal and that the cost structure is different.  We've had 100 years to perfect that genre on film and 70 years to master it on television.  Still, 1883 is excellent TV and WoT is not.

 

Even though I've been an outspoken bookcloak on this forum, I've not personally attacked Rafe.  I will say I wonder what this would have looked like with Taylor Sheridan as the show runner.  

[DojoToad]

23 hours ago, ashi said:

 

Surely the poll results only serve to confirm EmreY's point? At the time of writing, 37% of the voters in this poll have stated that they either love or like the show, and presumably at least some of them are book readers. Consequently (unless bizarrely we are to suppose that the voters are untruthful), this poll shows that there are people who love/like the show, despite having read the books.

And 50% dislike or hate it, so what is your point?

[DojoToad]

22 hours ago, EmreY said:

 

Verily, I have.  266 responses so far.  99 like or love; 131 dislike or loathe.  

 

This is supposed to mean something?

Yes, that more people that voted in the poll dislike it than like it.

 

Are you suggesting it means nothing?

[DojoToad]

11 hours ago, Fatdog96 said:

I’ve read the books dozens of times.  They are my all time favorites.  The tv series let me down.  I just find it hard to swallow all of the modern opinions of the day seeping into this wonderful world that RJ created.  I understand that changes have to be made to fit this series into a show format but making Moiraine and Siuan lovers, Perrin being married and killing his wife, questions about who the Dragon actually was, leaving out pivotal characters and meetings on the journey and many other things really chaps my behind.  Can’t Hollywood just follow the books.  Like one person already said, the first 4 seasons of GoT, Harry Potter and LotR did it to much fanfare and success.  Others that have ventured out on their own are too often considered inferior or even failures.  I’m hoping season 2 will quit with the political correctness and follow the format that RJ left them.

Don't count on it.  They made the show they wanted and will continue down that road to ultimate success or failure.  The die have been cast.  ?

[Fatdog96]

2 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

I think Moiraine being married to her quest will still happen, but the relationship with Siuan makes her more relatable to the audience. It can be hard to relate to someone who is just purely driven by a high ideal, when you mix in that personal element and sacrifice it becomes easier. 

 

I'm also laughing at a post complaining about political correctness and inserting Perrin and his wife to that list. It's so PC to kill your wife for your own character development these days! (I understand this wasn't the point, it just made me laugh, please don't quote this post with a long rebuttal explaining how the show is woke etc) 

 

You are correct.  I didn’t add them for the PC comment only that I don’t like it because who knows how it will play out down the line when Faile comes in the picture.  I just simply don’t understand why they add things like this when the original way was superior.

[ashi]

41 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

And 50% dislike or hate it, so what is your point?

Read the backlog of what you are commenting on, before commenting, please. If you do, it should be obvious (I mean, it is quoted in the post you are responding to, after all).

 

EmreY responded to Dew21: "I think that the only way that you could possibly like this show is if you DIDN'T read the books.", with EmreY: "All you have to do is look across the forums to see that this is not the case." [I.e., it is not the case that the only way to to like the show if you have not read the books].

 

Then EduardoEnriqueGonzalez responded to EmreY: "Have you seen the poll results in this very thread?"

 

The point is that the very thing that EduardoEnriqueGonzalez tried to direct attention to, serves to prove EmreY's point, that "I think that the only way that you could possibly like this show is if you DIDN'T read the books" is not the case, since the poll proves that there exist people [presumably having read the books] that like the show.

 

Note that nothing was said about more people liking the show than not, nor was any other qualitative judgement made.

 

But again, this should be obvious.

Edited January 5, 2022 by ashi

[DojoToad]

3 minutes ago, ashi said:

Read the backlog of what you are commenting on, before commenting, please. If you do, it should be obvious.

 

EmreY responded to Dew21: "I think that the only way that you could possibly like this show is if you DIDN'T read the books.", with EmreY. "All you have to do is look across the forums to see that this is not the case." [I.e., it is not the case that the only way to to like the show if you have not read the books].

 

Then EduardoEnriqueGonzalez responded to EmreY: "Have you seen the poll results in this very thread?"

 

The point is that the very thing that EduardoEnriqueGonzalez tried to direct attention to, serves to prove EmreY's point, that "I think that the only way that you could possibly like this show is if you DIDN'T read the books" is not the case, since the poll proves that there exist people [presumably having read the books] that like the show.

 

Note that nothing was said about more people liking the show than not, nor was any other qualitative judgement made.

 

But again, this should be obvious.

Should be obvious - maybe.  Not everyone's brain works the same and I don't always make connections that are obvious to others.  Thanks for taking the time to do that for me.

 

Agreed that some people who have read the books like/love the show.

[ashi]

Just now, DojoToad said:

Should be obvious - maybe.  Not everyone's brain works the same and I don't always make connections that are obvious to others.  Thanks for taking the time to do that for me.

 

Agreed that some people who have read the books like/love the show.

You are right. I am sorry if/that I came across as confrontational. Thank you for this acknowledgement!

[Ralph]

2 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

I think Moiraine being married to her quest will still happen, but the relationship with Siuan makes her more relatable to the audience. It can be hard to relate to someone who is just purely driven by a high ideal, when you mix in that personal element and sacrifice it becomes easier. 

 

 

 

I think they are trying to bring this out with all the emphasis on how long it has been since M was last there. 

[EmreY]

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Yes, that more people that voted in the poll dislike it than like it.

 

Are you suggesting it means nothing?

 

Other than the comments made by @ashi above, which put the conversation in context, and quite separate from either the conversation up to that point, or the points made by ashi, there are a few issues here.

 

1. Fan sites are, well, fan sites.  It is possible (likely, I would argue) that a fan site would be more possessive of the IP, and that any deviation from the source material would be viewed as bad.  For example, I like most of the Marvel films, but I wouldn't consider myself a fan so I'm not a member of any fansite; I'm sure there are obscure discussions in some corner of the internet on whether Tom Holland's hands are the right shape for Spiderman, but, not being that hung up on things, I'm not going to go looking for a website to participate in any poll on the subject.  By contrast, Marvel fans who believe that hand shape is important to the portrayal of Superman will already have a notion (or knowledge) of what that shape should be, and some of them may say that Tom Holland is unsuited to the job for that reason.

 

I would therefore argue that this poll is unlikely to reflect the general reception of the books (readers and TV series newbies to the WoT combined).

 

2. No-one knows the breakdown of voting.  It could be that there were 100 book readers in the group of 101 that liked the TV series and 0 in the 137 that didn't.  Or the reverse.  To use it as an indicator of book readers liking or not liking the series is dangerous.  (Which is why I said that one needed to go and look at the comments.)

 

I would therefore argue that we cannot say whether book readers like the TV series or not based off the poll.  (Or whether non-book-readers do or not.)

 

I therefore take such polls with a pinch of salt.

 

3. I will broaden the scope of these types of polls further to include places like IMDB.  If there is an organised base behind the IP, and a large chunk of that base has strong feelings about the TV or film result - and I fully grant that this might indeed be the case (negatively) in this instance - then inevitably you will see a comment or three on fansites that they should vote and show 'em.  Even a semi-organised fanbase has the ability to skew polls.

 

To take a hypothetical example from American politics, for example, if the Washington Post decided to hold an online poll on whether President Biden's policy on the Antarctic Treaty was good, both the DNC and the RNC could easily skew the results (if they felt strongly enough) by encouraging their members to go and vote.  There being no I'm-OK-with-the-WoT-but-not-hugely-invested-in-or-even-hated-the-books.com, the IMDB results could again be skewed, one way or another.

 

I therefore also take votes on IMDB or reviews on Amazon etc with a pinch of salt.

 

......

 

Incidentally, none of this means that I think the TV series is the best thing since sliced bread. ? 

 

With apologies for the wall of text,

 

Signed,

 

A pedant.

Edited January 5, 2022 by EmreY

[Gothic Flame]

"Bookcloak and proud" should be a t-shirt.

[Tamal]

1 hour ago, EmreY said:

No-one knows the breakdown of voting.  It could be that there were 100 book readers in the group of 101 that liked the TV series and 0 in the 137 that didn't.  Or the reverse.  To use it as an indicator of book readers liking or not liking the series is dangerous.  (Which is why I said that one needed to go and look at the comments.)

 

I would therefore argue that we cannot say whether book readers like the TV series or not based off the poll.  (Or whether non-book-readers do or not.)

Very dubious conclusion. Logically, the overwhelming majority of people on this forum are readers of the books. To separate the two (we agree on that one), is therefore a meaningless exercise. There is absolutely no reason to expect that this poll is not reflective of a general trend on this manner.

 

Namely, that regardless of hypothetizing regarding "readership status", more people on here dislike the show than those who like it. To a significant degree. And there is absolutely no reason why we should assume that a sizeable portion of those who have voted have not read the books. 

[EmreY]

36 minutes ago, Tamal said:

Very dubious conclusion. Logically, the overwhelming majority of people on this forum are readers of the books. To separate the two (we agree on that one), is therefore a meaningless exercise. There is absolutely no reason to expect that this poll is not reflective of a general trend on this manner.

 

Namely, that regardless of hypothetizing regarding "readership status", more people on here dislike the show than those who like it. To a significant degree. And there is absolutely no reason why we should assume that a sizeable portion of those who have voted have not read the books. 

 

Very logical conclusion.  Saying we do not know is the only conclusion that is 100% error-free.  

 

While I agree that it might be likely that there are more book readers responding to this than non-book-readers, I do not know.   Nor do you know.  In addition, we haven't the foggiest idea of how the breakdown goes on the like/dislike scale.  You can make assumptions all you like, but that doesn't mean anything.

Edited January 5, 2022 by EmreY