How did the show hold up for you?

[templar7]

3 hours ago, LordyLord said:

Its not an enahancement to the Nyaneve/Lan/Morainne plotline.

 

If Nynave, Lan and Morainne didnt get to do the Whitecloak rescue, thn the plot needed  them to do someting as equally epic and more importantly meaningful to plot of the Season itself

??What?? "something as equally epic and more importantly meaningful to plot of the Season itself" Did you miss episode 4? 

[RhienneAgain]

7 hours ago, Wassup said:

This is an interesting post, for me.  It is trying to look at the changes from a logical sense.  I think this is why some book fans are affected by the changes, the logic is difficult to see at the moment.

 

There was an interesting video linked somewhere, either in this forum or on reddit, where a gentleman was explaining the adaptation to tv in a way to consider some of the changes.  I did not have time to watch the whole video yet.  Briefly, he points out that we have been told there is a plan for eight seasons with eight episodes each.  That would give the production crew 64 "chapters" to tell the Wheel of Time story.  It would be adapting all fourteen books to fit this template.  So, season one is not an adaptation of TEoTW as much as it is an introduction and foundation for the series for all non-book readers.

(Here is a link to the video.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7ujwHxJx0s

 

With this perspective in mind, I can consider that the producers are playing the long game with some of these changes.  These could be changes that will make sense later in the season or later in the series.  There has to be some logic to it.  We just do not know the why and where it is going.  For some of us, that direction is not clear so it does not make sense, thus it seems illogical.

I guess it comes down to whether the showrunners/writers etc. have genuinely made changes for logical reasons purely to tell the story of WoT in the time they have available, or if the changes are due to other reasons (artistic vision, wanting to feature top billed actors, modern social norms, etc.). I think that's where the room for debate and discussion comes in as no one can say for certain and people have different views on whether the story should be changed for other reasons.

[Harldin]

On 12/15/2021 at 8:37 AM, SinisterDeath said:

From this limited set of data, we have 
2753 Book readers.

65.2%  liked it.
24% liked it enough

10.8% don't like it.

 

From this limited set of data, we have 
226 Non-Book readers.

73.4% liked it

17.3% liked it enough

9.3% didn't like it.

 

As to the quality of that data... If we are to believe people who hate the show, they have made claims that Reddit mods ban show haters for offering any criticism. Whether true or not, any data sample is gunna have flaws. ? 

I have said all along that no matter what they do between 15-20% of book fans will hate the show, so those numbers are not bad at all

[Gothic Flame]

20 minutes ago, templar7 said:

This obsession and hatred over the changes from book to screen is ridiculous. Even if it did work, why would you want the exact same, page for page copy?

You have to be joking.

They tried selling this as an "adaptation" because of a built in fanbase they wanted. Had Rafe stated that he'd replace scenes from the book and make up useless time-wasting irrelevancies I dare say some here wouldn't have even bothered with it...certainly there'd be less defending it.

[templar7]

5 minutes ago, RhienneAgain said:

I guess it comes down to whether the showrunners/writers etc. have genuinely made changes for logical reasons purely to tell the story of WoT in the time they have available, or if the changes are due to other reasons (artistic vision, wanting to feature top billed actors, modern social norms, etc.). I think that's where the room for debate and discussion comes in as no one can say for certain and people have different views on whether the story should be changed for other reasons.

I can't believe how hard this is for some folks to wrap their head around. I respect the passion for the books. I'm one of you! Ive read them 6 times, now on my 7th.. I had a conversation with the author himself about hidden story points that very few people would even know were there.  I get it!  its hard to re-imagine something so ingrained in us... but seriously... Get over it!!

[Scarloc99]

14 hours ago, Sabbaday said:

Expectations for this series was that it would respect the story that was written.   My expectation was a recreation of an amazing world, with the characters following the storyline as closely as possible.   (See, Outlander  and GOT, LOTR)  Obviously,  some changes have to be made when putting an epic saga on TV.  But,  you don't throw in ridiculous changes with no logical reason to do it.   You don't take Perrin, have him married when he's supposed to be a inexperienced teenager only to kill his wife!  I  mean, come on.  You don't add Egwene in as a possible candidate to be the Dragon Reborn.  Who's brilliant idea was that?  You don't turn Rand and Egwene's budding love into a sexually active relationship.  So many things that are so wrong.   Each episode makes it worse.   Tom's cloak is mentioned over and over again in the book.  It was part of who he was as a character.  Who decided to ignore it?  Why?    I  hate what they've done with Wheel of Time.  What could have been a truly amazing series is a poorly done embarrassment.

Again someone calling him an inexperienced teenager, in the books he is nearly 20, teenager yes, but the inexperienced makes no sense. 

[Kudzu]

9 hours ago, templar7 said:

I began these books more than 25 years ago, and after at least 6 full rereads, consider myself a hardcore book fan. Having also had both personal and public converse with Robert Jordan himself, I'm confident he would love the show as much as I do. Is it perfect? No. but its pretty damn good!

 

Someone pointed out the other day the RJ said on his blog he would be happy with an adaptation something like Merlin. I think I only ever watched a few episodes of that show and don't remember much, but from what I do remember, if that's the bar he set he would be ecstatic with the this show.

[templar7]

10 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

You have to be joking.

They tried selling this as an "adaptation" because of a built in fanbase they wanted. Had Rafe stated that he'd replace scenes from the book and make up useless time-wasting irrelevancies I dare say some here wouldn't have even bothered with it...certainly there'd be less defending it.

I cant believe you're still bothering with it. If you hate it that much, why still watch it?

[Gothic Flame]

Just now, templar7 said:

I cant believe you're still bothering with it. If you hate it that much, why still watch it?

I'm not.

Why are telling people to "get over it?" Or is this your clever attempt to convince people to watch the show?

Maybe you should accept the fact that there are plenty of book fans that won't "get over it."

This isn't an echo chamber where everyone will simply agree...with you.

[templar7]

17 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

22 minutes ago, templar7 said:

I cant believe you're still bothering with it. If you hate it that much, why still watch it?

I'm not.

Why are telling people to "get over it?" Or is this your clever attempt to convince people to watch the show?

Maybe you should accept the fact that there are plenty of book fans that won't "get over it."

This isn't an echo chamber where everyone will simply agree...with you.

[templar7]

On 11/19/2021 at 6:56 PM, king of nowhere said:

It's good.

 

it's all a problem of expectations. as sanderson said through hoid, "give me an audience waiting to be entertained but expecting nothing special, to them i will be a king"

our own expectations were hyperinflated, that's all that's stopping us from really appreciating this show

Exactly! Perfectly put.

[templar7]

7 hours ago, TheChief said:

FWIW I watched a great Youtube video the other day that explains how TV adaption is done. It is specific to the Wheel of Time. It explains what the writers are likely doing, and why they are making certain decisions. It ends on a note of "you may disagree, but this is the rationale". For anyone either okay with / upset about the changes, it's informative. I really enjoyed learning about this process myself.

 

The channel is "A Critical Dragon" and the vid is called "The Wheel of Time TV adaption".

Thanks for this, great video!

[WOTfan51]

To tell you the truth I am rather disappointed in the series. I realize that anytime a book is made into a film or a series things will be cut and changed some. They have made some major changes that I believe totally throws off the story. Like Perrin being married at the beginning and killing his wife by accident, Thom Merillin not being with them right from the beginning. I can maybe accept that they took out the wolf bother Elyas to save some time but I kind of feel it was essential to Perrin finding out he can talk to wolves. Episode 5 really messed it up for me. Everything is all out of order. Them all meeting up at Tar Valon instead of Caemlyn where then they go from there to the borderlands and what happens there is an important part of the story. And the last thing that happens at the end of Episode 5 with Mat is crap too. To me it feels like they are trying to cram 15 books into 10 episodes and destroying the story. I will say that I like the over all look and feel of the show just not what they have done to the story line.

[LordyLord]

11 hours ago, templar7 said:

??What?? "something as equally epic and more importantly meaningful to plot of the Season itself" Did you miss episode 4? 

Please read my initial comment 

https://dragonmount.com/forums/topic/110618-how-did-the-show-hold-up-for-you/?do=findComment&comment=4005531

[Masha]

15 hours ago, Kudzu said:

 

Someone pointed out the other day the RJ said on his blog he would be happy with an adaptation something like Merlin. I think I only ever watched a few episodes of that show and don't remember much, but from what I do remember, if that's the bar he set he would be ecstatic with the this show.

I am not taking sides, but unfortunately RJ passed away before first season of GOT, and Merlin was probably the best a fantasy could hope for on television at the time. GOT and HBO set a high bar in production, quality and adaptation which all other series in both SciFi and Fantasy attempted to follow afterwards, some successfully (maybe even better) some worse. I also want to remind you that Merlin show was oriented on young adult audience /teenagers not mature adult audience that WOT and most premium fantasy/scifi shows are now designed for. Once GOT came out and showed what fantasy show could really be, Merlin barely lasted a year before being cancelled. I am sure that had RJ seen GOT he would wanted his books to have similar dedicated treatment too.

[Agitel]

I am concerned about how any battle at the Eye will look. I feel like battles with the OP will look more cheesy in live action than in animation. That's a broad, general comment about any possible live adaptation, and not specific to the show we have.

[Elder_Haman]

19 minutes ago, Masha said:

I am not taking sides, but unfortunately RJ passed away before first season of GOT, and Merlin was probably the best a fantasy could hope for on television at the time. GOT and HBO set a high bar in production, quality and adaptation which all other series in both SciFi and Fantasy attempted to follow afterwards, some successfully (maybe even better) some worse. I also want to remind you that Merlin show was oriented on young adult audience /teenagers not mature adult audience that WOT and most premium fantasy/scifi shows are now designed for. Once GOT came out and showed what fantasy show could really be, Merlin barely lasted a year before being cancelled. I am sure that had RJ seen GOT he would wanted his books to have similar dedicated treatment too.

People need to stop putting words into RJs mouth. He is gone - light rest his soul - and the only person in the world who is qualified to speak about his desires is Harriet. 

[DaddyFinn]

4 minutes ago, Agitel said:

I am concerned about how any battle at the Eye will look. I feel like battles with the OP will look more cheesy in live action than in animation. That's a broad, general comment about any possible live adaptation, and not specific to the show we have.

I hope non Aes Sedai channelers won't spend their time with dancing and waving hands. It should be almost lighting-fast clashes of waves, explosions etc.(my head canon)

[JaimAybara]

7 hours ago, Agitel said:

I am concerned about how any battle at the Eye will look. I feel like battles with the OP will look more cheesy in live action than in animation. That's a broad, general comment about any possible live adaptation, and not specific to the show we have.

I hope they make the focal point of battles the effect being done and not the weave itself unless absolutely necessary. I actually liked the episode 4 battle, there were some things they could have done to improve it but overall, pretty decent. I want them to lean into the effects of actions. Explosions, fireballs, wind, lighting, balefire, etc. focus on the tangible action itself. 
 

*it would also be cool to get a non channeler perspective at some point.

Edited December 16, 2021 by JaimAybara

[Ralph]

An interesting quote from https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='wot film'

 

INTERVIEW: Dec 9th, 2002

Wotmania and Dragonmount Q&A

QUESTION

By far the most common question asked: What are your feelings on a movie version of your books? You've said that, to you, only the books really matter. Do you feel that a movie would do them justice though? Or do you think it might be too complex for the screen and even hurt their reputation? What about making a movie that focuses on a different time from the story you've told?

ROBERT JORDAN

My feelings about the possibility of a movie are ambivalent. It would be very nice if a movie or movies, or a series on HBO or whatever were made, but that really would be something extra. I write books. If a movie is made, good. If not, I won't cry.

I don't think that a bad movie would do the books any damage, but with any movie, the writer of the book has to give up control to someone else and trust that other person to interpret the writer's vision. (God, that sounds pompous!) I used to think that it might be impossible for a movie to really encompass any of the books, but since seeing The Lord of the Rings, I've changed my mind. In any case, Harriet says (and Plato agrees with her) that the only thing to do when you sell a book to Hollywood is to take the money, walk away very fast before they can take it back, and never, ever go to see the movie. Of course, any movie depends on someone making an offer for an option and then following through to exercise the option, and so far, that hasn't happened. The option bit did, true, but not the rest. We are now waiting, as they say. But not very anxiously.

[Ralph]

Having just spent 45 minutes searching for the Merlin quote (which I first mentioned here I think), I was on the verge of giving up and shamefacedly explaining that it seems I made it up, but I finally found it:-

 

See  what you think... 

 

Now I really have to go back to work... 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Ralph

[bongmaster]

WTF happened to Rand climbing the wall at Caemlyn to see Logain, then fall into the garden and meet Elayne and Gawyn only to have Morgase toss him out of the palace grounds?
Where did they first meet the Amerlyn? Sheinar?

It's rubbish.

[RhienneAgain]

21 hours ago, templar7 said:

I can't believe how hard this is for some folks to wrap their head around. I respect the passion for the books. I'm one of you! Ive read them 6 times, now on my 7th.. I had a conversation with the author himself about hidden story points that very few people would even know were there.  I get it!  its hard to re-imagine something so ingrained in us... but seriously... Get over it!!

I'm sorry, I'm really confused by your response to my post.  What am I struggling to wrap my head around..?  What do you want me to get over..?  Sorry, genuinely lost here!

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

5 hours ago, Ralph said:

In any case, Harriet says (and Plato agrees with her) that the only thing to do when you sell a book to Hollywood is to take the money, walk away very fast before they can take it back, and never, ever go to see the movie

I miss RJ so much... He was so down to earth and likeable. Really just a legitimately funny guy and I'm sure a delight to speak with in person.

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

"It seems like the streamer’s biggest mandate with fantasy adaptations is to make them faithful to die-hard fans. Anyone else who goes along for the ride is a welcome bonus." 

 

Read this in a review of The Witcher Season 2 today and it's really making me with WoT had been adapted by literally anyone but the suits at Amazon. 

 

Say what you like about the adaptation, but it was certainly made with a wider audience in mind first and then any book fans who weren't put off by the changes were invited to come along if they wished. 

 

Netflix's shows aren't always good or satisfactory for their fanbases (Hello, Cowboy Bebop) but it seems like they give their creatives a lot more control over there.