How did the show hold up for you?

[csmoptop]

I'll also add that the reason some of us are here to comment on the show, being long time fans of the books who are devastated by what's happening in the show, is that Amazon, imdb and Rotten Tomatoes are making it very difficult to impossible for critics of the show to post about it. Rotten Tomatoes still hasn't posted my negative review from six weeks ago, even after I've edited it twice and cut most of it out. Right after I posted my Amazon review, Amazon sent me a threatening email saying that my review violates their policies and that this is my first warning. Their policies are incredibly bland, vanilla and vague. I posted nothing offensive and there is no way to query them about what they found objectionable or why I am being given threatening warnings about my review. imdb hasn't posted my review either. So thank goodness this forum exists and we can talk about our reactions to the show like reasonable adults. I've mentioned before that I've visited dragonmount many times over the past dozen years or so, but never posted before because I was here for information and had nothing compelling to add, so didn't register to be able to comment until this show started. 

[Wassup]

I have had to watch episodes 1-5 twice each because I cannot help but watch it the first time as a book fan. It is exciting and disappointing at the same time. 

I can watch it as a second time and view it as just the show. And have been ok with it as a whole. I have not rewatched episode 6 yet. 
 

With that, here is where I am for this show. I have talked to friends and family about the books for 25 years trying to get people to read and enjoy them like I have. I have talked to friends and family about the show since early summer because I was excited and wanted someone to share it with and hoped they would start reading the books. 
 

After watching episode 6, I will not be discussing this show with anyone I know unless they ask me about it. I do not feel like pressing anyone to watch it. I would rather they read the books. 
 

My teenage daughter watched episode 1 with me. She said she wants to watch the next one. That was a week ago and she has not made any effort to watch it with me or asked about it. It does not matter to me if she does not watch it with me. I would rather have her read the books. 
 

It is not that I dislike the show. It is just the book fan in me is not happy. I will watch the show to see where it goes and see those few things from the books that are kept in the story. If they pull it together with a good finish, I will move on to season 2. As of now, I am not sure if I will. 
 

maybe I will feel different after watching episode 6 a second time. 
 

 

[fra85uk]

@csmoptop

In addition to what you wrote, the discussion of the show on reddit is impossible as any criticism bring to immediate ban in the dedicated channels

[csmoptop]

Ralph, you are right, thanks. EotW is only referenced in dreams in book 1 since it's drained and done at the end of the book. I was starting a larger point that encompassed both books, went back and narrowed it to the Eye specifically, and forgot to remove the book 2 reference. 

[csmoptop]

1 hour ago, Ralph said:

I think only once in book 1, agreed besides Aiel and Jain

 

I plan to look a bit later to confirm. If you have chapter numbers of where it appears, please send

There are quite a few references to the Eye of the World in book 1 in several chapters, before Moiraine tells them they need to go to it. Here they are:
Chapter 14, The Stag and Lion, page 202, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - “Did they tell you the Eye of the World would serve you?"
Ch 15, Strangers and Friends, pg 224, Mat, Rand & Perrin telling Thom about their dreams, Mat to Thom - "He said so many things. Crazy things. All that about Lews Therin Kinslayer, and Artur Hawkwing. And the Eye of the World.” Then Thom tells them - “As big a legend as the Horn of Valere, at least in the Borderlands. Up there, young men go hunting the Eye of the World the way young men from Illian hunt the Horn.” 

Ch 24, Flight Down the Arinelle, pg 335, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - “The Light will not help you, boy, and the Eye of the World will not serve you."

Ch. 25, The Traveling People, pg 356, Raen tells Elyas and Perin about a Far Dareis Mai's dying words - ‘Leafblighter means to blind the Eye of the World, Lost One. He means to slay the Great Serpent. Warn the People, Lost One. Sightburner comes. Tell them to stand ready for He Who Comes With the Dawn.  Then Perrin reflects on her words - "The Eye of the World. That had been in his dreams, more than once." 

Ch 27, Shelter from the Storm, pg 385, Ba'alzamon to Perrin in a dream - “The Eye of the World will consume you."

Ch 33, The Dark Awaits, pg 461, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - "The Eye of the World will never serve you."

Ch 42, Remembrance of Dreams, pg 593, a few references. First, Loial to Moiraine, Lan and all the Emonds Fielders about a man who came to Stedding Shangtai - "...he told a curious tale which he said he meant to carry to Tar Valon. He said the Dark One intended to blind the Eye of the World, and slay the Great Serpent, kill time itself." And then Perrin tells them what the Tinkers told them about the Eye. And Rand, Mat and Perrin tell them what they dreamed about the Eye. 

And then, pg 596, after all that foreshadowing, Moiraine tells them all - "And just at this point we hear of a threat to the Eye of the World, not from one source, but three, each seeming independent of the others. The Pattern is forcing our path. The Pattern still weaves itself around you three, but what hand now sets the warp, and what hand controls the shuttle? Has the Dark One’s prison weakened enough for him to exert that much control?”

She goes on to discuss this further say they need to get to the Eye quickly, which is all we get in the show. Just one of many things handled very sloppily.

[Ralph]

8 minutes ago, csmoptop said:

There are quite a few references to the Eye of the World in book 1 in several chapters, before Moiraine tells them they need to go to it. Here they are:
Chapter 14, The Stag and Lion, page 202, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - “Did they tell you the Eye of the World would serve you?"
Ch 15, Strangers and Friends, pg 224, Mat, Rand & Perrin telling Thom about their dreams, Mat to Thom - "He said so many things. Crazy things. All that about Lews Therin Kinslayer, and Artur Hawkwing. And the Eye of the World.” Then Thom tells them - “As big a legend as the Horn of Valere, at least in the Borderlands. Up there, young men go hunting the Eye of the World the way young men from Illian hunt the Horn.” 

Ch 24, Flight Down the Arinelle, pg 335, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - “The Light will not help you, boy, and the Eye of the World will not serve you."

Ch. 25, The Traveling People, pg 356, Raen tells Elyas and Perin about a Far Dareis Mai's dying words - ‘Leafblighter means to blind the Eye of the World, Lost One. He means to slay the Great Serpent. Warn the People, Lost One. Sightburner comes. Tell them to stand ready for He Who Comes With the Dawn.  Then Perrin reflects on her words - "The Eye of the World. That had been in his dreams, more than once." 

Ch 27, Shelter from the Storm, pg 385, Ba'alzamon to Perrin in a dream - “The Eye of the World will consume you."

Ch 33, The Dark Awaits, pg 461, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - "The Eye of the World will never serve you."

Ch 42, Remembrance of Dreams, pg 593, a few references. First, Loial to Moiraine, Lan and all the Emonds Fielders about a man who came to Stedding Shangtai - "...he told a curious tale which he said he meant to carry to Tar Valon. He said the Dark One intended to blind the Eye of the World, and slay the Great Serpent, kill time itself." And then Perrin tells them what the Tinkers told them about the Eye. And Rand, Mat and Perrin tell them what they dreamed about the Eye. 

And then, pg 596, after all that foreshadowing, Moiraine tells them all - "And just at this point we hear of a threat to the Eye of the World, not from one source, but three, each seeming independent of the others. The Pattern is forcing our path. The Pattern still weaves itself around you three, but what hand now sets the warp, and what hand controls the shuttle? Has the Dark One’s prison weakened enough for him to exert that much control?”

She goes on to discuss this further say they need to get to the Eye quickly, which is all we get in the show. Just one of many things handled very sloppily.

Thank you. I read it quite recently, and still did not remember it was in so many dreams. 

 

But I still found it very sudden in the books. 

[Chivalry]

1 hour ago, csmoptop said:

I'll also add that the reason some of us are here to comment on the show, being long time fans of the books who are devastated by what's happening in the show, is that Amazon, imdb and Rotten Tomatoes are making it very difficult to impossible for critics of the show to post about it. Rotten Tomatoes still hasn't posted my negative review from six weeks ago, even after I've edited it twice and cut most of it out. Right after I posted my Amazon review, Amazon sent me a threatening email saying that my review violates their policies and that this is my first warning. Their policies are incredibly bland, vanilla and vague. I posted nothing offensive and there is no way to query them about what they found objectionable or why I am being given threatening warnings about my review. imdb hasn't posted my review either. So thank goodness this forum exists and we can talk about our reactions to the show like reasonable adults. I've mentioned before that I've visited dragonmount many times over the past dozen years or so, but never posted before because I was here for information and had nothing compelling to add, so didn't register to be able to comment until this show started. 

I'm glad this forum exists to allow fans of the books/viewers to voice their opinions on the show. Although I'm enjoying the show (mostly), I do have my issues with the adaptation. I have no doubt some members of the WOT team peruse social media and message boards (how can they not?), and I'm hopeful some of the criticism, at least, will be taken to heart. 

[notpropaganda73]

13 hours ago, Ralph said:

 

Just like in the book, you mean? 

To be honest, this frustrates me as a defence of the show. This was a huge opportunity to improve on a weak part of the books, to develop a better understanding of the Eye and reasons for going there. And as things stand, they have whiffed on it.

 

Obviously we can reassess at the end of the season having seen the full story from the show. But I just find it a bit disappointing at the moment, I really feel the show has a great chance to improve on things like this 

[Ralph]

1 minute ago, notpropaganda73 said:

To be honest, this frustrates me as a defence of the show. This was a huge opportunity to improve on a weak part of the books, to develop a better understanding of the Eye and reasons for going there. And as things stand, they have whiffed on it.

 

Obviously we can reassess at the end of the season having seen the full story from the show. But I just find it a bit disappointing at the moment, I really feel the show has a great chance to improve on things like this 

Not intended as a defence of the show. And I agree they could and should have improved on it

 

But when I see people attacking all the changes, and then also attacking this type of thing and saying this is another example, I find it difficult to understand their viewpoint. 

 

Although, as had been pointed out, it was mentioned in the book a few more times than the three I had remembered

[Wassup]

I have a couple analogies in my kind right now for this juxtaposition of book and show. 
To me, it is like enjoying Dolly Parton’s I Will Always Love You. (Tha could be the books). You want the show to be Whitney’s version. 
 

Instead, sometimes it feels like you enjoy Jaime’s Crying by Van Halen and the show is Wild Thing by Tone Loc. There are bits of the original samples in but some other artist’s vision of a song.

 

Or, you liked the book Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Willie Wonka was a great movie with some incredible acting (Gene Wilder!). I loved it. It it was different from the book. The Johnny Depp movie was atrocious to me. My kids liked it though. 

which will this series end up being like?

[jonsnow84]

You may be giving it too much credit ?

[Yojimbo]

48 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

To be honest, this frustrates me as a defence of the show. This was a huge opportunity to improve on a weak part of the books, to develop a better understanding of the Eye and reasons for going there. And as things stand, they have whiffed on it.

 

Obviously we can reassess at the end of the season having seen the full story from the show. But I just find it a bit disappointing at the moment, I really feel the show has a great chance to improve on things like this 

See,  I never found the way they ended up going to the Eye to be rushed or "coming out of nowhere". There were numerous mentions of the Eye. And, they were basically trapped in Caemelyn. They knew there were many Tollocs outside the city.   They decided to take the risk of using the Ways to escape.  Moraine, because she was a very wise woman who had been studying the prophecies and preparing for the last battle for 20 years, made an executive decision to try and steal a march on the shadow by going there.  Because of the events leading up to that point the others went with her because by that time they had bought in to some degree at last that they were important, and they were willing to risk their lives to possibly save everything they knew and loved.  

 

In some ways I find it analogous to the decision by LTT to take his hundred companions to try and re-seal the bore.  And she was right to do so in my opinion. 

[Robert Laurel]

Liandrin s a gold-plated bitch. Any man who touched her would freeze to death.

[notpropaganda73]

16 hours ago, Yojimbo said:

See,  I never found the way they ended up going to the Eye to be rushed or "coming out of nowhere". There were numerous mentions of the Eye. And, they were basically trapped in Caemelyn. They knew there were many Tollocs outside the city.   They decided to take the risk of using the Ways to escape.  Moraine, because she was a very wise woman who had been studying the prophecies and preparing for the last battle for 20 years, made an executive decision to try and steal a march on the shadow by going there.  Because of the events leading up to that point the others went with her because by that time they had bought in to some degree at last that they were important, and they were willing to risk their lives to possibly save everything they knew and loved.  

 

In some ways I find it analogous to the decision by LTT to take his hundred companions to try and re-seal the bore.  And she was right to do so in my opinion. 

 

I didn't say it came out of nowhere, but I do think it is a weak part of EotW that the show had an opportunity to improve upon. It always felt a bit rushed in the scene itself in Caemlyn to me - it was a real whirlwind of the gang being reunited, the healing and then the story from Loial and the dream revelations. But it has been a long time since I've read it so maybe I'm being unfair, and perhaps the whole confusion around the ending itself when I first read it is colouring the actual decision to go to the Eye.

 

Regardless, the show has a much weaker motivation for going to the Blight than the book ever did, and that's what I find really disappointing. There's no reason for the audience to care or understand any of it, and even the motivation for going is a throwaway line from Siuan that isn't really discussed or explored properly.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by notpropaganda73
more clarity

[DojoToad]

19 hours ago, csmoptop said:

In books 1 and 2, there were several dreams where the dark one says to Rand, Mat and Perrin, the Eye of the World will not serve you, implying it's some tool, object or person of great power; and that he will destroy the Eye. 

Um, we're done with the Eye before book 2.

[DojoToad]

19 hours ago, Ralph said:

Book 2 def not

 

I think only once in book 1, agreed besides Aiel and Jain

 

I plan to look a bit later to confirm. If you have chapter numbers of where it appears, please send

 

But despite all this, I personally always found the Eye very out of the blue in the book, and I think many think so also

I think others answered better than me, deleting...

Edited December 13, 2021 by DojoToad

[DojoToad]

19 hours ago, csmoptop said:

I'll also add that the reason some of us are here to comment on the show, being long time fans of the books who are devastated by what's happening in the show, is that Amazon, imdb and Rotten Tomatoes are making it very difficult to impossible for critics of the show to post about it. Rotten Tomatoes still hasn't posted my negative review from six weeks ago, even after I've edited it twice and cut most of it out. Right after I posted my Amazon review, Amazon sent me a threatening email saying that my review violates their policies and that this is my first warning. Their policies are incredibly bland, vanilla and vague. I posted nothing offensive and there is no way to query them about what they found objectionable or why I am being given threatening warnings about my review. imdb hasn't posted my review either. So thank goodness this forum exists and we can talk about our reactions to the show like reasonable adults. I've mentioned before that I've visited dragonmount many times over the past dozen years or so, but never posted before because I was here for information and had nothing compelling to add, so didn't register to be able to comment until this show started. 

The show hasn't been out for 6 weeks - why would they post a review by someone that didn't get a sneak peek?  Are you a critic that received early access?

[Vartija]

I got the impression that Moiraine's faith in the Pattern was a pretty big part of the sudden leaving for the Eye. Three different threats to the Eye combined with having three ta'veren at hand heavily influenced her decision:

 

Quote

"A curious turn, indeed. When we can neither stay nor leave by any ordinary means, I learn of a threat to the Eye, and in the same place there is one who can take us there in days. Whether it is the Creator, or fate, or even the Dark One, the Pattern has chosen our path for us."

--

"You can go to the Eye of the World, three ta'veren, three centerpoints of the Web, placed where the danger lies. Let the Pattern be woven around you there, and you may save the world from the Shadow. The choice is yours. I cannot make you go."

Come to think on it, I'm a little surprised the tv-Moiraine didn't mention their ta'vereness at all when persuading them to go. But the dynamics are a bit different already since in the show the Eye is supposed to be the Dark One's prison. ? 

 

I think a bigger question is, why no more backup? In the books this is explained by the hurry to get there:

Quote

"Whether this is a trap or a timely warning, we must do what we must, and that is to reach the Eye of the World quickly. The Green Man must know of this threat."

--

"I cannot even risk stopping in Tar Valon for help," Moiraine continued. "Time traps us. Even if we could ride out of the city unhindered, it would take many weeks to reach the Blight, and I fear we no longer have weeks."

I do think this was a bit of a weak reason since could they not have used the Ways to go to Tar Valon first and then continued from there?

 

Of course this doesn't explain why in the show they didn't grab a bunch of Aes Sedai with them since they were already in Tar Valon. 

[DojoToad]

7 minutes ago, Vartija said:

I got the impression that Moiraine's faith in the Pattern was a pretty big part of the sudden leaving for the Eye. Three different threats to the Eye combined with having three ta'veren at hand heavily influenced her decision:

 

Come to think on it, I'm a little surprised the tv-Moiraine didn't mention their ta'vereness at all when persuading them to go. But the dynamics are a bit different already since in the show the Eye is supposed to be the Dark One's prison. ? 

 

I think a bigger question is, why no more backup? In the books this is explained by the hurry to get there:

I do think this was a bit of a weak reason since could they not have used the Ways to go to Tar Valon first and then continued from there?

 

Of course this doesn't explain why in the show they didn't grab a bunch of Aes Sedai with them since they were already in Tar Valon. 

Definitely not the strongest point of book 1, but the show made the book look good.  They had an opportunity to improve and whiffed.

[Ashaman Caleb]

I voted dislike, but I was probably more neutral when the show started. I think episode 4 really restored my hope of the show. It did a lot I didn’t like, but it also felt the most of what I expected this season to be like. But after episode 4 I feel the show just plummeted with 5 and 6 being the worst episodes yet.

 

I imagine episodes 7 and especially 8 will be good, but if this show doesn’t end on a good note I don’t know if I even want it to continue. Not that my opinion matters as season 2 is being filmed and 3 already paid for. I do find it odd that they’re this far in the show without waiting for any fan responses. I do hope they take into account a lot of the fan criticisms, because I think there is still a lot here working to turn this show around and make it good.

 

There’s a few more specific notes I’d make, but those would involve some book spoilers.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Ashaman Caleb

[LedZepMan]

Anyone else super grumpy that they all let their horses go at the way gate? As if Lan would ever let Mandarb go! 

Sheesh

[DojoToad]

14 minutes ago, Ashaman Caleb said:

I voted dislike, but I was probably more neutral when the show started. I think episode 4 really restored my hope of the show. It did a lot I didn’t like, but it also felt the most of what I expected this season to be like. But after episode 4 I feel the show just plummeted with 5 and 6 being the worst episodes yet.

 

I imagine episodes 7 and especially 8 will be good, but if this show doesn’t end on a good note I don’t know if I even want it to continue. Not that my opinion matters as season 2 is being filmed and 3 already paid for. I do find it odd that they’re this far in the show without waiting for any fan responses. I do hope they take into account a lot of the fan criticisms, because I think there is still a lot here working to turn this show around and make it good.

 

There’s a few more specific notes I’d make, but those would involve some book spoilers.

If by fan criticisms you mean book readers, they do not care (or will give less weight) - we are too small a demographic.  The big thing for them will be views on Amazon.  If those keep trending up, then they will keep going...

[DojoToad]

1 minute ago, LedZepMan said:

Anyone else super grumpy that they all let their horses go at the way gate? As if Lan would ever let Mandarb go! 

Sheesh

Budget cuts strike again.  Especially bad considering how valuable a war-trained horse could be in the Blight.  Evidently Mandarb and Bela will not even be the very minor characters they were in the books.  They will be missed, but I get it.

[TheMountain]

Datapoint: My wife stopped watching with me after episodes 5. She said it was boring ?

[jonsnow84]

For me this felt a lot more like seeing MTV take a crack at Shannara than HBO taking on Game of Thrones. At least with GOT they had the excuse of running outnof source material. Not sure what Judkins excuse is ?

Edited December 13, 2021 by jonsnow84
Typo