Interviews and News Articles

[Mnemosyne]

1 hour ago, Daenelia said:

Did anyone see this article yet, in the Guardian?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/nov/17/the-wheel-of-time-is-far-from-great-for-women-amazon-prime-rosamund-pike

 

Just thought I'd share it.

 

Yeah, this article seriously annoyed me. Just nitpicking every instance of "bosom" from the series without any sense of the overall impression you get from the female characters and their arcs (they absolutely were my role models as a teenage girl!).

 

I understand the writer's criticism of gender essentialism (especially regarding the differences in how women and men channel), but to be fair to Jordan, lots of feminists of the time were firmly on that bandwagon as well.

 

The article also states "there is so much fantastic, well-written, strongly plotted fantasy out there that would have been a richer seam to mine" to which I say, great, let's mine it! It doesn't mean we can't also have a WoT show!

Edited November 18, 2021 by Mnemosyne

[CaddySedai]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

Yea, the gist of it is the books aren't great, and they'll try to watch the show.

I also have a hard time taking that author serious after this

 

Pretty sure that at the time the Books were great ABOUT and FOR women. Would it line up with today's "needs" - no. And those issues have been covered.

 

But think back to the 90's...the 2000s ... and name me a series that was more female oriented. Especially in the fantasy genre.

 

Go on, I'll wait.

[CaddySedai]

39 minutes ago, Mnemosyne said:

"bosom"

 

I mean, the TV show clearly is gonna give us mountains of Glutes by Lan™

 

It could have been more crass but they chose at least a tamer word. lol

[Agitel]

WOT has many women out and about with their own goals and politicking with other women dominating much of the story line. Sounds like this person just got digital copies of the books, did a ctrl-f search for certain terms, and left it at that. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Agitel

[CaddySedai]

3 minutes ago, Agitel said:

WOT has many women out and about with their own goals and politicking with other women dominating much of the story line. Sounds like this person just got digital copies of the books, did a ctrl-f search for certain terms, and left it at that. 

 

I love that I live in a world with people searching books for words like bosom. That's fantastic. 

[WhiteVeils]

Forbes is pretty mainstream...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2021/11/18/the-wheel-of-time-amazon-review-rosamund-pike-epic-adventure-fantasy-lackluster-design-production/?sh=168f09e32d03

[ForsakenPotato]

this one is a bit harsh https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/18/arts/television/review-wheel-of-time.html

although in some ways also leaves me hopeful. like the author complains about Moiraine saying "the wheel weaves as the wheel wills" but like...obviously she has to say that! sure it's a mouthful but it's an iconic mouthful. it also sounds like the scenery and visuals are gorgeous, and while maybe the characters need time to grow, i honestly feel that would be a fair criticism of the books as well. the characters kind of do start pretty simple, and i only found myself particularly attached to some of them after EotW.

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

I read it earlier and found it sort of irrelevant to the show. Just complained about well known issues from the books and then went on to sort of dismiss the idea that maybe the showrunners have made changes to those issues. 

 

It reads like a very superior "I'm better than anyone who enjoys this series" sort of take. 

Hell, it got lazy half way through their complaints of "bossoms", to name drop Adam Robert. and quote his essay trashing WoT for the next three quarters of that article before even mentioning the Show... And it just... Lazy.

 

1 hour ago, CaddySedai said:

But think back to the 90's...the 2000s ... and name me a series that was more female oriented. Especially in the fantasy genre.

It was also marketed by ToR and other reviewers as one of the few fantasy novels with strong female characters/leads.

[Agitel]

14 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

this one is a bit harsh https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/18/arts/television/review-wheel-of-time.html

although in some ways also leaves me hopeful. like the author complains about Moiraine saying "the wheel weaves as the wheel wills" but like...obviously she has to say that! sure it's a mouthful but it's an iconic mouthful. it also sounds like the scenery and visuals are gorgeous, and while maybe the characters need time to grow, i honestly feel that would be a fair criticism of the books as well. the characters kind of do start pretty simple, and i only found myself particularly attached to some of them after EotW.

 

This is one of the more thoughtful critical reviews I've read.

[Skipp]

20 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

this one is a bit harsh https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/18/arts/television/review-wheel-of-time.html

although in some ways also leaves me hopeful. like the author complains about Moiraine saying "the wheel weaves as the wheel wills" but like...obviously she has to say that! sure it's a mouthful but it's an iconic mouthful. it also sounds like the scenery and visuals are gorgeous, and while maybe the characters need time to grow, i honestly feel that would be a fair criticism of the books as well. the characters kind of do start pretty simple, and i only found myself particularly attached to some of them after EotW.

 

This is one of the more interesting articles I have read.  The author clearly likes and understands the characters but that is the opposite from what we are hearing else where.  He makes a lot of good solid points but then really knocks the set and costume design and he absolutely blasts the Trolloc's design.  About the costumes and sets he the familiar "too clean, don't look lived in and then compares it to GoT's aesthetic. 

 

While I haven't seen the show yet the what I have seen from the trailers. previews Behind the scenes stuff I just don't track with most of that.  While yes the costumes are cleaner and more vibrant, GoT has a very serious issue of everyone wearing Black/Brown and the camera has a cold filter seemingly at all times, it is clearly a stylistic choice.  To me The Two Rivers set looks fantastic and Tar Valon is suppose to be clean so unless he is referring to other sets I am not entirely sure what he is talking about.  Even the pictures of Rand and Mat in Tar Valon's streets don't look spotless or anything like that.  Finally I apparently need to see the Trollocs for myself, every shot we have seen of them in the last month has been the spectacular and I have heard that echoed from others who watched the premier. 

 

Ultimately I just don't know but I am still really looking forward to watching it myself.

[Daenelia]

I just read a quick review in a Dutch online newspaper, which of course hastened to say that Rand is Dutch - I mean, the actor who plays Rand - and then has issues with the series not being the LotR films. Even while saying that Jordan kinda admitted to having borrowed from LotR.

 

I too am looking forwardf to making up my own mind.

 

Mind you. Remember how badly the first series of GoT was received? It wasn't all 'glory to GRR Martin' at the time, as I recall. Time will tell. ... the wheel weaves ...

[jeffreycwagner]

There is some harsh criticism for Wheel, but lest we forget, Thrones was not a mega-hit immediately, at least not with the critics:

 

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/581658/game-of-thrones-season-1-negative-reviews

 

In a few years, I assume most of the Wheel's negative reviews will be looked back on about like these for Thrones.

[Agitel]

If I can make a video game analogy... A lot of these reviewers are used to games no longer than 12 hours. WOT is like an 80 hour jRPG that's still giving you new tutorials on game mechanics 40 hours in. It takes some investment and willingness to let things develop and to get the ball rolling.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Agitel

[Reader]

One thing about the UK reviews from left leaning publications (The Guardian, the i, Independent (now a blog) & The New Statesman) is that they will all let their dislike of Amazon taint (can we still use that word?) their output. A second thing is that few people will be buying or reading the publications anyway.  Now the Metro, which is a "newspaper" given away free at railway stations, will have been read by at least 100x the number of people who bought the New Statesman this week, and it seems quite positive https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/16/the-wheel-of-time-review-rosamund-pike-fantasy-is-spectacular-journey-15612062/

[jeffreycwagner]

From the Forbes article linked by WhiteVeils :

 

Quote

Yes, I get this is all very binary (as is Dune) and we live in a world in which an increasingly non-binary understanding of gender is emerging. But this fantasy series hinges on this dichotomy, however dated it might feel, and to me it makes more sense to just stick to the original’s binary gender magic rather than, er, reinvent the wheel as it were. There are other fantasies that can be adapted that make no such distinction or that embrace a more modern understanding of gender. It’s just a story. It doesn’t have to reflect the politics of the moment.

 

This sums up my thoughts pretty well.  I know this has been beaten beyond death and I get the "keep the Dragon identity secret, helps with the girls, blah, blah, blah" BUT, you could still have the Dragon secret amongst 3 and keep the core un"tainted" - it is just a story after all. 

 

I suppose it probably will not affect the story or my enjoyment too much, but it does irk me!

Edited November 18, 2021 by jeffreycwagner

[CaddySedai]

24 minutes ago, Skipp said:

 

He makes a lot of good solid points but then really knocks the set and costume design and he absolutely blasts the Trolloc's design.  About the costumes and sets he the familiar "too clean, don't look lived in and then compares it to GoT's aesthetic. 

 

 

Well look at the 89 batman versus like Dark Knight and beyond.

 

Both are dark but TDK is the extreme. The issue with "dark and dirty" is that it isnt supposed to be that. Nowhere does RJ ever say that everyone but nobility is clean. lol

 

Point is I LOVED the 89 Batman...it may be my favorite of all of them. You can be balanced between Dark and Clean looking. 

[ForsakenPotato]

30 minutes ago, jeffreycwagner said:

There is some harsh criticism for Wheel, but lest we forget, Thrones was not a mega-hit immediately, at least not with the critics:

 

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/581658/game-of-thrones-season-1-negative-reviews

 

In a few years, I assume most of the Wheel's negative reviews will be looked back on about like these for Thrones.

Oh my gosh, that sort of makes the NYT article I posted funnier. The whole first few paragraphs are about how it's not as good as Game of Thrones, while in actuality their review of the start of Game of Thrones actually appears to be far harsher than the WoT review. Classic!

[Agitel]

29 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

Oh my gosh, that sort of makes the NYT article I posted funnier. The whole first few paragraphs are about how it's not as good as Game of Thrones, while in actuality their review of the start of Game of Thrones actually appears to be far harsher than the WoT review. Classic!

 

Oh, yeah, NYT was very harsh on the first two or three seasons of GOT. By seasons 6 and 7 they were all YAAAAAAS QUEEN GO KHALEESI STICK 'EM WITH THE POINTY END ARYA. 

[Vambram]

1 hour ago, WhiteVeils said:

Forbes is pretty mainstream...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2021/11/18/the-wheel-of-time-amazon-review-rosamund-pike-epic-adventure-fantasy-lackluster-design-production/?sh=168f09e32d03

 

 

That is a pretty good review from a mainstream source and a critic who has previously only read The Eye of the World.  

[Calembel]

I don't even bother reading reviews anymore. There are so many shows/movies that I loved that got trashed by reviews and others that I hated that got praised by them.

[themann1086]

2 minutes ago, Calembel said:

I don't even bother reading reviews anymore. There are so many shows/movies that I loved that got trashed by reviews and others that I hated that got praised by them.

I've curated a group of reviewers whose tastes tend to overlap mine. If most of them like it, I definitely will. If only some of them do I probably will. If none of them do...

[CaddySedai]

10 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

Oh, yeah, NYT was very harsh on the first two or three seasons of GOT. By seasons 6 and 7 they were all YAAAAAAS QUEEN GO KHALEESI STICK 'EM WITH THE POINTY END ARYA. 

 

And then we were treated to a masterclass in how to destroy all positive goodwill in one season or less lol.

[jeffreycwagner]

8 minutes ago, themann1086 said:

I've curated a group of reviewers whose tastes tend to overlap mine. If most of them like it, I definitely will. If only some of them do I probably will. If none of them do...

 

How do your curated group of reviews feel about WoT?!?!

[TheMountain]

I want more reviews by people who have read all the books!

 

It would be really interesting to hear some critical takes on how the decisions the show is making now might work based on an understanding of the whole.

Edited November 18, 2021 by TheMountain

[themann1086]

5 minutes ago, jeffreycwagner said:

 

How do your curated group of reviews feel about WoT?!?!

Sadly they're all movie reviewers primarily and none have posted or uploaded about WoT yet. I was going to watch this no matter what so it's kind of a moot point haha