Which Forsaken make the cut?

[Skipp]

She nearly broke Rand with the male a'dam.

[DermidAjala]

If we get Sammael but no Rahvin or Be'lal I suppose Sammael may become influential in the Caemlyn plot along with his later roles and Tear will then become solely about Ishy and that resolution which does tidy that all up and allow it to be dealt with a bit quicker.

 

Alternatively you could give Sammael the south coast so he has a bit of relevance early, fades into the background and then comes back again which would allow you to use Demandred in Caemlyn before he goes off to Shara and maybe solves the problem of him basically being off-screen if he's not Taim.

Edited December 3, 2021 by DermidAjala

[Skipp]

Honestly you could possible give Sammael Be'lal's, and Rahvin's role in both Camelyn and Tear in addition to Illian.  How hard would it be for a Forsaken to rule 3 countries at once.

[LordyLord]

For Male I would have Ishmael, Rahvin, Demandred, Asmodean.

Rahvin will be the Inventor of Shadowspawn(with Aginor getting cut)

Demandred will be taking Sammaels role(and that allows us to introduce him earlier)

 

For Females I would have Lanfear, Mesanna, Moghedien and Graendal.

Controversially I would have Lanfear take Semirhage’s role. I feel Lanfear needs more to do

[Jaysen Gore]

you could definitely beef up the on camera roles of Semi and Mesaana, depending on whether you want to emphasize the Seanchan or WT storylines more, but I also think there's only so much time to go around. So they'll probably pick one of the two to roll with.  And given the relative importance, I think Mesaana's role in the tower will get beefed up.

[DermidAjala]

3 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Honestly you could possible give Sammael Be'lal's, and Rahvin's role in both Camelyn and Tear in addition to Illian.  How hard would it be for a Forsaken to rule 3 countries at once.

 

I did think about this, but I just think it gets a bit lame because you basically have Sammael in very similar ways where he has a role in a city, the good guys show up and he's toasted and runs to the next. I think you can get away with it twice before people stop caring.

 

1 minute ago, LordyLord said:

For Male I would have Ishmael, Rahvin, Demandred, Asmodean.

Rahvin will be the Inventor of Shadowspawn(with Aginor getting cut)

Demandred will be taking Sammaels role(and that allows us to introduce him earlier)

 

For Females I would have Lanfear, Mesanna, Moghedien and Graendal.

Controversially I would have Lanfear take Semirhage’s role. I feel Lanfear needs more to do

 

Demandred taking Sammael's role is an interesting take and would work quite smoothly. Again you could have him do all of the south so he pops up around Tear but perhaps chooses to leave Ishy to his fate or something

[Masha]

I think Aran'gar has to be there, perhaps revised to avoid cringy parts. Because him infiltrating Aes Sedai, manipulating and murdering them and them being completely unable to recognize what is happening and being left helpless due to them being hidebound, their rigidity of belief and inability to think beyond gender bound roles of One Power is a great storyline. And then Aran'gar attacking and killing one of Rand's Asha'man is such a shock to the system and change of paradigm... I'd hate to lose it.

[Theseus78]

I can easily see setting up Forsaken to rule multiple countries through puppets vs direct rule.

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, Skipp said:

She nearly broke Rand with the male a'dam.

I'd say she did break Rand. That break led to him becoming the Kwisatz Haderach Rand

[Meskell]

1 hour ago, Masha said:

I think Aran'gar has to be there, perhaps revised to avoid cringy parts. Because him infiltrating Aes Sedai, manipulating and murdering them and them being completely unable to recognize what is happening and being left helpless due to them being hidebound, their rigidity of belief and inability to think beyond gender bound roles of One Power is a great storyline. And then Aran'gar attacking and killing one of Rand's Asha'man is such a shock to the system and change of paradigm... I'd hate to lose it.

I don’t think they can possibly have the stories only representation of a transgender (I know it isn’t but it’s the closest in the story) person be evil and a serial killer, it just will not sit well in the modern world. 

[AusLeviathan]

It's possible they merge Liandrin with Mesaana and Taim with Demandred and have them be made chosen (and given those names) as a reward for bringing so many channelers to the shadow.

 

I really do want to see Aginor because I think you can have a lot of fun with a brilliant scientist who's forced out of his comfort zone and has to make do in a world where his specialization is useless.

Edited December 4, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Jaysen Gore]

1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

It's possible they merge Liandrin with Mesaana and Taim with Demandred and have them be made chosen (and given those names) as a reward for bringing so many channelers to the shadow.

 

I really do want to see Aginor because I think you can have a lot of fun with a brilliant scientist who's forced out of his comfort zone and has to make do in a world where his specialization is useless.

I'd buy this if the book had done anything like this, but it didn't. I'm not saying #nochanges, but in this case, yeah. Bite it, Aginor

 

Liandrin  / Alviarin seems a possible thing, (especially with Siuan coming back from Camelyn, perhaps with Elaida. And Taimandred would avoid a big foreshadowing issue they had in the books (Shara? Seriously?) but I like Taim as a modern Chosen.

[ManetherenTaveren]

On 12/3/2021 at 2:17 PM, Meskell said:

I don’t think they can possibly have the stories only representation of a transgender (I know it isn’t but it’s the closest in the story) person be evil and a serial killer, it just will not sit well in the modern world. 

I think the (paraphrased) statements that "male channelers make the one power filthy", that women "protect the world", that the dark one will corrupt all balance and existence, and that souls (especially forsaken souls) are reconstituted, makes the very concept and probability of "Halima" inevitable, regardless of modern sensibilities. Put those parameters in a capable writer's hands and quite an intriguing and gorgeously deranged infiltration plotline could be developed, imho.

 

How could the showrunner resist that? Given the many changes/adaptations already apparent in the show, I could see one of the male Forsaken/Chosen initially breaking free of the sealed prison and voluntarily using a facade talent to impersonate a female. That would avoid the "stigma" of being reconstituted by the Dark One as a female as a form of punishment.    

[Sabio]

I always found the put a male soul in female to be rather smart.  But I could see that plotline getting snipped since time is already short for everything they need to do, so I could see the match to Tar Valon getting shortened alot.  

[Dreamwalker]

I think they'll either merge Mesaana and Semi or Graendal and Semi.

Graendal in the books is all about pleasure/hedonism and controls others absolutely with Compulsion to meet her every whim, she also was the psychologist right? I think they could easily combine her with the torture/sadism aspects of Semi, as another of her hedonistic vices, and can just be another means of her breaking/controlling people (or she could do more psychological torture).

 

On the male side, merge Rahvin and Sammael if you want to keep their plots at all, cut Be'lal and have it be Sammael in Tear at the Stone. And I hope the show makes Taimandred show canon.

[Ryan al'Thor]

Keep:

Ishy

Lanfear

Asmodean

Greandal

Semirhage

Moghedian

Demandred (combine with Taim)

Rahvin (combine with Sammael)

 

[Ryan al'Thor]

12 hours ago, Dreamwalker said:

I think they'll either merge Mesaana and Semi or Graendal and Semi.

Graendal in the books is all about pleasure/hedonism and controls others absolutely with Compulsion to meet her every whim, she also was the psychologist right? I think they could easily combine her with the torture/sadism aspects of Semi, as another of her hedonistic vices, and can just be another means of her breaking/controlling people (or she could do more psychological torture).

 

On the male side, merge Rahvin and Sammael if you want to keep their plots at all, cut Be'lal and have it be Sammael in Tear at the Stone. And I hope the show makes Taimandred show canon.

Without Rahvin Im not sure how you get the battle of Caemlyn, one of the best scenes with Nynaeve/Mog and Rand balefiring Rahvin. 

[ManetherenTaveren]

3 minutes ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

Without Rahvin Im not sure how you get the battle of Caemlyn, one of the best scenes with Nynaeve/Mog and Rand balefiring Rahvin. 

I think the real question is...Will the showrunner actually save/resurrect the lives/plotlines of several key characters through the use of balefire? It could be interesting, and one could argue that Nynaeve's medical talent "leap" came close to mortal resurrection, but how will death be further teased in this adaptation?    

[Spiritweaver1]

I don't want to bring reality to this thread but clearly non of the Forsaken appear in S1 since none have been cast.  Chew on them rocks.  Technically Balzamon  has appeared in S1 but he is, I guess, only a dream character and poor CGI doesn't get an actor yet.  I looked at an off site (IMDB ) cast list which included Elayne but saw nothing about Lanfear who does appear in TGH as Selene.   As I recall there were a couple of women cast who the show was keeping their roles a secret.  

 

My bold take so far is that Lanfear doesn't make the cut. Keeping her in the plot means our lead actress has to go out relatively early in the story say late season 2 or early season 3 at the rate they go.

 

That cast list was very interesting since theoretically they are shooting TGH as we speak.  Missing some players large and small.  Perhaps IMDB isn't keeping up the cast list as it should.  This site could also update the cast list for season 2. 

[Whittle]

 

Hot take: The name Ba’Alzamon

doesn't even make it into the show. Ishy calls

himself Moridin from the start when he finally starts having dream conversations with Rand instead of just horror sequences,

which won’t happen until Rand is revealed as the Dragon at the Eye. I think their only face to face confrontation before the end will be in the sky above Falme.  Rand fails to kill him and therefore he is never reincarnated. Since the show has already mentioned Ishamael as an influential dark friend/forsaken, the big reveal for non book readers later on is that this guy Moridin is actually Ishy. It’s when he is named Nae’blis and starts lording over the other forsaken. They recognize him and it’s revealed for the TV audience. To make this impactful, more of Ishy’s backstory from the age of legends will be explored.

To this end, there will be no forsaken at the Eye and the quest there will be more tied

into saving the forces at Tarwin’s Gap. And yes, the confrontation in Tear will be Sammael. Because let’s be honest, the book fight with Sammael in Shadar Logoth kinda sucked.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Whittle

[Sabio]

I will hate it if no Forsaken show up to the eye, that was sort of the big reveal that the Forsaken were back.  I suspect the Forsaken are gone, but it was the desperation of the Forsaken being there that made Rand finally fight back.

[Jaysen Gore]

3 hours ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

I don't want to bring reality to this thread but clearly non of the Forsaken appear in S1 since none have been cast.  Chew on them rocks.  Technically Balzamon  has appeared in S1 but he is, I guess, only a dream character and poor CGI doesn't get an actor yet.  I looked at an off site (IMDB ) cast list which included Elayne but saw nothing about Lanfear who does appear in TGH as Selene.   As I recall there were a couple of women cast who the show was keeping their roles a secret.  

 

My bold take so far is that Lanfear doesn't make the cut. Keeping her in the plot means our lead actress has to go out relatively early in the story say late season 2 or early season 3 at the rate they go.

 

That cast list was very interesting since theoretically they are shooting TGH as we speak.  Missing some players large and small.  Perhaps IMDB isn't keeping up the cast list as it should.  This site could also update the cast list for season 2. 

The forsaken who appear in the Eye of the World don't need press releases, given the length of time they're on camera. They could literally be stuntmen, and one of them's in a mask anyway. Hell, they could be two of our lead actors, under make up.

 

And your reason for ditching Lanfear would still happen. It has to happen. For the exact same story reasons that "Fly, you fools!" had to happen - a child does not become a man until he buries his parents.  

 

And I guarantee you that if "Who is the Dragon Reborn?" is the question that drives the first season, "Who is Selene?" is the one that will drive the second. IMDB.com will help them in keeping that question alive. It's an industry tool, not TMZ. 

[Jaysen Gore]

1 hour ago, Whittle said:

 

Hot take: The name Ba’Alzamon

doesn't even make it into the show. Ishy calls

himself Moridin from the start when he finally starts having dream conversations with Rand instead of just horror sequences,

which won’t happen until Rand is revealed as the Dragon at the Eye. I think their only face to face confrontation before the end will be in the sky above Falme.  Rand fails to kill him and therefore he is never reincarnated. Since the show has already mentioned Ishamael as an influential dark friend/forsaken, the big reveal for non book readers later on is that this guy Moridin is actually Ishy. It’s when he is named Nae’blis and starts lording over the other forsaken. They recognize him and it’s revealed for the TV audience. To make this impactful, more of Ishy’s backstory from the age of legends will be explored.

To this end, there will be no forsaken at the Eye and the quest there will be more tied

into saving the forces at Tarwin’s Gap. And yes, the confrontation in Tear will be Sammael. Because let’s be honest, the book fight with Sammael in Shadar Logoth kinda sucked.

I could see them going this way; I don't think they will, but it could happen. Mainly because of 

 

Spoiler

body in the stone of Tear, where Rand and Ishy both discover Ishy isn't Shai'tan. Be'lal isn't the threat that Fire Eyes is, so that death needs to happen so they learn "this isn't over"

 

As I've inferred before, but maybe haven't been clear on, I think they can keep all 13, and their plotlines, and still fit it in 64 episodes. Even would make it better, since we wouldn't spend 15 years wondering where the hell Demandred is

[Theseus78]

17 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

And I guarantee you that if "Who is the Dragon Reborn?" is the question that drives the first season, "Who is Selene?" is the one that will drive the second. IMDB.com will help them in keeping that question alive. It's an industry tool, not TMZ. 

It's even more an Amazon tool (since it's owned by Amazon)

[Kalen]

I think it'll swing to one of the extremes either:

1. We see very few....maybe ~5 so that they get decent screen time and development each. And the heroes defeat them, but not permanently and they return.
2. We see all 13, and they act (much like in the books) as cannon fodder for the heroes to chew through.

I think the big change we will see is with more of an ensemble,

Spoiler

we'll see more of the Forsaken getting defeated by people other than Rand.