tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[dog421]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:32 AM, Elder_Haman said:

But you don't. You don't have to watch.

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No, for better or worse, we have to watch. no choice.

[AusLeviathan]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:30 AM, Elder_Haman said:

Seems like - despite your claims - the show is giving you tons of enjoyment, even if that enjoyment is all about riling people up in online forums.

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I'm just here for the eventual reactions when everyone realizes where Rafe is headed with the show.

 

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:31 AM, SinisterDeath said:

And, contrary to what ever exists within your ficticious tv show "head cannon", we don't know what wordings they have used for the Prophecies.

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We know they're vague and apparently tell them almost nothing about where the DR was born or who they were born to at least.

 

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:31 AM, Elder_Haman said:

No he hasn't. For Pete's sake, now you're just making things up.

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Yes he has actually. Sanderson has said both those things, he was even recently on reddit reaffirming that this isn't an adaptation of the WOT books.

Edited November 30, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[DojoToad]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:31 AM, Elder_Haman said:

No he hasn't. For Pete's sake, now you're just making things up.

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I don't know if Sanderson has said that or not, but he did bring up different turning of the wheel - which I'm still not sure what he means.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:34 AM, AusLeviathan said:

I'm just here for the eventual reactions when everyone realizes where Rafe is head with the show.

 

We know they're vague and apparently tell them almost nothing about where the DR was born or who they were born to at least.

 

Yes he has actually. Sanderson has said both those things, he was even recently on reddit reaffirming that this isn't an adaptation of the WOT books.

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Prove it. Screenshot the post of Sanderson saying this isn't an adaptation of the WoT books. You will be graded on your reading comprehension.

[dog421]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:34 AM, Harad the White said:

Goodness. You don't want to be thought of a "hater." Do you? (If anyone thinks I am cherry-picking quotes, that was repeated 7 times in a post of modest length.)

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As I went through all of that, it seriously made me question whether or not I want to keep watching the show. I don't know if I will. The books were better. Way better.

[Kudzu]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:27 AM, AusLeviathan said:

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:17 AM, Kudzu said:

Also it certainly won't be happening.

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Sure it will, they're just changing stuff now to whatever they want it to be, no need to worry, it'll work out in the end.

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Well this has certainly been a debate conducted in good faith. Good day to you sir.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:35 AM, DojoToad said:

I don't know if Sanderson has said that or not, but he did bring up different turning of the wheel - which I'm still not sure what he means.

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He said (paraphrasing), that it was helpful for him to think about the show as a different turning of the wheel to help him overcome his resistance to the changes. It was a psychological ploy he used to avoid getting hung up on nits.

[SinisterDeath]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:34 AM, AusLeviathan said:

I'm just here for the eventual reactions when everyone realizes where Rafe is head with the show.

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Now I'm thinking you created a second account on DM.

 

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:34 AM, AusLeviathan said:

We know they're vague and apparently tell them almost nothing about where the DR was born or who they were born to at least.

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We don't know anything about them yet.

 

The level of speculation you're bringing is of epic proportions.

 

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:34 AM, AusLeviathan said:

Yes he has actually. Sanderson has said both those things, he was even recently on reddit reaffirming that this isn't an adaptation of the WOT books

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Negative. What you did was twist his words to confirm to what you want to believe he said.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:35 AM, dog421 said:

As I went through all of that, it seriously made me question whether or not I want to keep watching the show. I don't know if I will. The books were better. Way better.

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May you always find water and shade.

[Harad the White]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:34 AM, AusLeviathan said:

Yes he has actually. Sanderson has said both those things, he was even recently on reddit reaffirming that this isn't an adaptation of the WOT books.

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If he said that, which is doubtful, then he doesn't know what an adaptation is. Just because he's a good writer doesn't make him a genius in all things. Look at Elon Musk ;)--great at electric cars and rockets...other things--not so good. See the definition of adaptation, usefully given above by Dead Warder.

[DojoToad]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:37 AM, Elder_Haman said:

He said (paraphrasing), that it was helpful for him to think about the show as a different turning of the wheel to help him overcome his resistance to the changes. It was a psychological ploy he used to avoid getting hung up on nits.

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So if I accept the ploy, I can enjoy the show.  Excellent.

[Yojimbo]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:07 AM, AusLeviathan said:

Perhaps Egwene will be the Super DR and Nynaeve will be the Ultra DR, yes that works it's all coming together now.

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Or each of the EF5 is actually a living horcrux, and eventually they will all form a circle and combine their souls to make NEO, who is the true DR. 

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.  I am a former member of this forum from around the time it first came online, who has not been active for so long I'd forgotten my old username.  Just started lurking again a few days ago and trying to decide if I was going to bother to post. 

 

This, however is one of the major problems I have with the show.  Maybe THE major problem (although I have many).   I can live with many of the changes, but one I can't stand is the "it could be male or female" thing, and the fact that even Moraine is ignorant of who can and cannot be the DR.   I guess when Gitara Moroso made her Foretelling she used gender neutral pronouns?  And Moraine and Suian were not in the room, and can't count to 20, since Nyn and Logain and Egwene are possible Dragons even though they are the wrong age?

 

I may or may not post more of my thoughts later, but couldn't not post something after reading this thread. 

[Harad the White]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:35 AM, dog421 said:

As I went through all of that, it seriously made me question whether or not I want to keep watching the show. I don't know if I will. The books were better. Way better.

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Well, we would hate to see you go. Just be assured that your negativity will be amply represented by the N&N cadre here.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:38 AM, DojoToad said:

So if I accept the ploy, I can enjoy the show.  Excellent.

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I mean, if that's what works for you. My brain works a little more like Kvothe's alar - I can hold the novels and the show in my head at the same time and recognize them as separate entities that are both the same as one another and also different with each having individual strengths and weaknesses.

[AusLeviathan]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:35 AM, Elder_Haman said:

Prove it. Screenshot the post of Sanderson saying this isn't an adaptation of the WoT books. You will be graded on your reading comprehension.

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Edited November 30, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Harad the White]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:34 AM, dog421 said:

No, for better or worse, we have to watch. no choice.

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Omg, this sounds like a cry for an intervention. Please wink once with each eye if you are being held hostage.

[Scarloc99]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:37 AM, Elder_Haman said:

He said (paraphrasing), that it was helpful for him to think about the show as a different turning of the wheel to help him overcome his resistance to the changes. It was a psychological ploy he used to avoid getting hung up on nits.

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I think we are reading too much into this, a TV adaptation was always going to need to cut a lot of stuff out and have differences in order to appeal to a far wider audience. This is why Brandon Sanderson could not adapt this, he was too close to it as an author. 

But he also needs to be able to sit back and realise those changes need to happen as he is advising, so for him, he needed to see it as a whole new project and in his words a new turning just so he could get out of Author headspace. 

 

Brandon Sanderson has said far far more positive things then negative, he has told us he loves the series and he has told us he is happy, anyone reading anything into the couple of things he said he challenged but ultimately understands as him not being happy are seriously misunderstanding what he is saying. 

[Harad the White]

They just exhumed JRRT and he said "I hate the PJ movies. They are not an adaptation." 

Well...that changes things for me. Now, I also hate them.

[Scarloc99]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:40 AM, Yojimbo said:

Or each of the EF5 is actually a living horcrux, and eventually they will all form a circle and combine their souls to make NEO, who is the true DR. 

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.  I am a former member of this forum from around the time it first came online, who has not been active for so long I'd forgotten my old username.  Just started lurking again a few days ago and trying to decide if I was going to bother to post. 

 

This, however is one of the major problems I have with the show.  Maybe THE major problem (although I have many).   I can live with many of the changes, but one I can't stand is the "it could be male or female" thing, and the fact that even Moraine is ignorant of who can and cannot be the DR.   I guess when Gitara Moroso made her Foretelling she used gender neutral pronouns?  And Moraine and Suian were not in the room, and can't count to 20, since Nyn and Logain and Egwene are possible Dragons even though they are the wrong age?

 

I may or may not post more of my thoughts later, but couldn't not post something after reading this thread. 

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Why is this such an issue, I am really struggling to understand. No Rafe has confirmed the Dragon cant be a women, but, the Aes Sedai Don't know that because, after 3000 years, they don't know everything. This makes alot of sense, if I was the dark lord first thing I would do when I got the chance was ensure my Darkfriends tweaked things to make people believe the Dragon can be a women. 

 

I will also say, in the Eye of the World the people of Emonds Field say that the Aes Sedai broke the world, so there is already an acceptance that women who wield the power can be dangerous in the books. A misunderstanding as to what exactly happened, why is it such a stretch to think that maybe Morraine does not have all the facts up front on how the weave works. 

[dwn]

If a soul can be reborn male or female it truly puts

  Reveal hidden contents

what the DO did (will do?) with Balthamel in a different context.

 

[AusLeviathan]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:46 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

Brandon Sanderson has said far far more positive things then negative, he has told us he loves the series and he has told us he is happy

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Just not enough to attend the premiere unfortunately.

[Scarloc99]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:42 AM, AusLeviathan said:

 

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This does not back up your statement, Brandon says that for him the way he understands this and the way he can creativly work with this, but, I will also say he says he understands what Rafe is doing and, based on this explanation so do I Rafe is very very correct here, dialogue and scenes as presented in a book very rarely scan when put on the stage or a screen, it is why all books are adapted for the alternative medium, if they are not then, as he says, they end up rubbish. 

I have a strong feeling that if Rafe had done what we all want we would have had a far far far worse show, one that would have been true to the books and made people go, well there a bit rubbish aren't they. The fact that So many non book readers are loving it suggests that maybe some of them will come across, read the books and then love that interpretation as well. 

[Scarloc99]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:54 AM, AusLeviathan said:

Just not enough to attend the premiere unfortunately.

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We don't know why that was, might have been covid, might have been travel, or a scheduling clash, he is a producer on the show who acted as a consultant 

[Harad the White]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:54 AM, AusLeviathan said:

Just not enough to attend the premiere unfortunately.

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What!!! Cancel my lifetime subscription.

[Scarloc99]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:50 AM, dwn said:

If a soul can be reborn male or female it truly puts

  Reveal hidden contents

what the DO did (will do?) with Balthamel in a different context.

 

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And this is why I believe the rules have not changed. Only peoples in world understanding of them, To my mind once the Horn is found then the rules will potentially be understood, or when Bridgett is first met, when she says that she always spins out of the wheel as a women.