tv show spoilers S1E2: Shadow's Waiting

[JaimAybara]

9 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

My understanding of the practical effects, is the actors in their Trolloc getup, are running around on these.

Are you on board with the practical effects though? Is it just the CGI that you have some issues with or is it both? Just curious. Sorry if I didn’t see a previous comment regarding this. 

[SinisterDeath]

5 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

Are you on board with the practical effects though? Is it just the CGI that you have some issues with or is it both? Just curious. Sorry if I didn’t see a previous comment regarding this. 

I love the practical effects. But there's moments where the CGI does something janky and gives them a stutter step?

[JaimAybara]

3 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I love the practical effects. But there's moments where the CGI does something janky and gives them a stutter step?

Oh okay, yeah same. I honestly think they should do more practical effects if they can’t get the CGI sorted, I was truly blown away by the practical. 

[raifers]

I tried giving this episode a shot. Episode one was a huge let down for me. I stopped when they crossed on the ferry. To me it seems she already violated one of the three oaths as she used her power to kill the ferry guy. 

[JenniferL]

If you watch a few more minutes, Moiraine gets called out on that and explains that she didn’t intentionally kill him, but she didn’t attempt to save him either. As long as Moiraine believes she’s keeping to the Oaths, she’s fine. 

[Morani]

On 11/20/2021 at 1:59 PM, Akragard said:

The meeting was cool.  I thought they looked like coyotes.  Wolves are huge.  I don't know why they made them so smol.

 

Two Rivers climate sounds like that of central Europe/the Balkans, seeing as it is warm enough to make wine in regions close to it. Wolf sizes actually warries a lot and increase proportionally with latitude, it is called Bergmann's rule. So while an arctic wolf is HUGE, a wolf in central Europe where this is filmed is not. Look at Italian wolves for example (which are native to roughly the same latitude as where most of WOT has been filmed). They weigh 25-35 kg according to wiki and 50-70 cm shoulder height (I think roughly 28-20 inches then), which makes them the size as a german shepard or a labrador. 

 

Scandinavian and Siberian wolfs however can get more than twice as big as that! At least twice as heavy.

 

Sorry for the way too specific and nerdy answer ?

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Morani
Added an image of an italian wolf for reference

[DojoToad]

13 hours ago, raifers said:

I tried giving this episode a shot. Episode one was a huge let down for me. I stopped when they crossed on the ferry. To me it seems she already violated one of the three oaths as she used her power to kill the ferry guy. 

That idiot jumped into the water on his own.  What did he think he was going to do if he had swum across with all those trollocs there.  My problem with this scene was the ferryman being an imbecile.

[ArrylT]

16 hours ago, JaimAybara said:

Are you on board with the practical effects though? Is it just the CGI that you have some issues with or is it both? Just curious. Sorry if I didn’t see a previous comment regarding this. 

 

I think it will differ from person to person, and also depends on the screen it is watched upon.   Sat night I watched Journey 2 the Mysterious Island - which is about 7 years older than when they started filming S1 of WOT.   It actually has a similar budget (80m area)

 

I mention this because I felt the cgi was more obvious in this movie than in WOT.   I also believe Journey 2 was also meant to have 3D Effects.   There were moments in the movie where it just felt so obvious that it was meant to be a 3D effect and even in HD it just looked silly.  On the other hand while there have been a few moments of obvious cgi in WOT there have been more times (for me) where even scenes which I knew in my head had to be CGI simply passed the eye test.   

 

I've been actively trying to find bad production in WOT - and I am just not finding it - maybe my standards are different.  I feel that the Emonds field set was superior to Wintefell S1.   Based on the trailers, Tar Valon looks to be better than Kings Landing S1. 

 

Shadar Logoth in Ep2 looked fantastic to me.   I absolutely loved that moment when Rand & Egwene were looking over the city. I even watched Ep2 after looking at the Ep2 Behind the scenes part where they showed that the wall was total Green Screen and it simply looked good to me.  But in the end we'll all come at it from different perspectives.    

[DojoToad]

6 minutes ago, ArrylT said:

Shadar Logoth in Ep2 looked fantastic to me.   I absolutely loved that moment when Rand & Egwene were looking over the city. I even watched Ep2 after looking at the Ep2 Behind the scenes part where they showed that the wall was total Green Screen and it simply looked good to me.  But in the end we'll all come at it from different perspectives.    

I too thought Shadar Logoth looked great - though it was a lot more intact than I was expecting, not nearly as much rubble and broken domes.

[Theseus78]

I thought the matte painting of Shadar Logoth was probably the worst visual effect they've done. First one that really pulled me out of the narrative.  

 

I didn't mind them changing Mashadar to being black and running on surfaces, but I wish they had the time to give it more of that "creeping inevitability" feel instead of jump-scare fast.

[TheAngryDruid]

If it gets better from here, I will not be a part of it. I've seen enough to know I am not enjoying it one bit. In fact, I actively dislike it. 

 

I am out. For those that can enjoy it.....good for you. 

 

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, TheAngryDruid said:

I am out. For those that can enjoy it.....good for you.

Cool. May you always find water and shade.

[JaimAybara]

I think of Star Trek in general as a bad visual but fun plot…it had terrible CGI and special effects in my opinion. Most of the Trek stuff historically is visually hilarious to be honest until the recent movies at least. Even after, it’s just a giant floating Apple Store with lasers and silly uniforms. But it’s got super fun plot and acting though. So it passes the smell test. 
 

For the WoT we have fantastic practical effects, prosthetics, and sets. I enjoyed them so much honestly just do it practical with as little cgi as possible and really really work on the script. Maybe make the clothes a little more lived in too. If they can do that they are there for me. Go in the direction of the Thing, the Blob, and Jaws for graphic violence.  Give me blood, horror, and inject as little CGI as possible surrounding monsters. Touch up only. The close ups right before Moiraine’s final hurrah in my opinion is the standard WoT prosthetic/cgi layering should be at. Have them frothing, give me spittle, more bloody smiles. I love it. Less weird CGI shots. Cut a dummy prosthetic in half. Blow it up after filling it with pig intestines. Whatever. More  tangible visuals. 
 

*I feel like practical effect heavy, especially in the foreground with a cgi background is something we’ve all recognized as a society as the best method…at least in a plurality sense, and yet they still don’t do it that way all the time and it’s frustrating. I don’t get it. Maybe it’s just me?*

Edited November 23, 2021 by JaimAybara

[Vambram]

41 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

I think of Star Trek In general as a bad visual but fun plot…it had terrible CGI and special effects in my opinion. Most of the Trek stuff historically is visually hilarious to be honest until the recent movies at least. Even after, it’s just a giant floating Apple Store with lasers and silly uniforms. But it’s got super fun plot and acting though. So it passes the smell test. 
 

For the WoT we have fantastic practical effects, prosthetics, and sets. I enjoyed them so much just honestly just do it practical with as little cgi as possible and really really work on the script. Maybe make the clothes a little more lived in too. If they can do that they are there for me. Go in the direction of the Thing, the Blob, and Jaws for graphic violence.  Give me blood, horror, and inject as little CGI as possible surrounding monsters. Touch up only. The close ups right before Moiraine’s final hurrah in my opinion is the standard WoT prosthetic/cgi layering should be at. Have them frothing, give me spittle, more bloody smiles. I love it. Less weird CGI shots. Cut a dummy prosthetic in half. Blow it up after filling it with pig intestines. Whatever. More  tangible visuals. 
 

*I feel like practical effect heavy especially in the foreground and cgi in background is something we’ve all recognized as a society as the best method historically… and yet they still don’t do it that way all around. I don’t get it. Maybe it’s just me?*

 

I'm in your camp. I greatly prefer practical special effects over cgi effects whenever it is at all possible to use practical effects that still look great. 

[mogi68]

The scene with Rand going up to that balcony in Shadar Logoth to look over the rooftops was A+

 

I like the little slow bits they add like that. That and the part where they're all on a clifftop gazing at the landscape. Hits me in the feels for some reason

[Agitel]

I'm watching the "Inside the Episode" shorts now. I didn't realize how much of Shadar Logoth was actually physically built. 

[Tim]

Watching again, Rand confronting Moiraine actually seemed well done to me, and probably about as good a compression of the various similar scenes from early in the book as they could reasonably achieve.
 

I think if we had seen Rand more from other POVs in the first few books this is almost exactly how he would have come across - I always remember the scene in TGH where Verin is counselling Rand on how to present as a lord and she says something like “if you’re as arrogant as you were when you met the Amyrlin then they’ll believe you’re a lord even if you turn up in rags”. Rand’s own POV in the scene meeting the Amyrlin doesn’t explicitly support that - but that’s mostly because he is not a totally reliable narrator with respect to his own demeanour and how it comes across to others (the other scene that really underscores this point is when Rand meets Mat in Lord of Chaos, and Mat thinks he seems totally crazy).
 

Same with Egwene - she asks Moiraine “are you going to kill us like you killed the ferryman”, but then is persuaded by Moiraine’s response. This is very on-brand for Egwene - never shy about questioning authority but also more inclined to accept it if given a sound basis to - but just compressed into a single scene.

 

Same with Mat: “I agree with you but the lady does shoot fireballs” is very much something Mat would say. It also at least hinted at a baseline for his character against which his descent into nihilism and paranoia in subsequent episodes can be measured.

 

So far, I think the show is doing a slightly better job at capturing these character dynamics than the LOTR films did, though for both the challenge is/was essentially the same: how do you compress these character dynamic developments into a short period of time and also make them explicit to the audience without internal monologues, without making the end result unbelievable. 

[flinn]

On 11/22/2021 at 11:16 AM, DojoToad said:

That idiot jumped into the water on his own.  What did he think he was going to do if he had swum across with all those trollocs there.  My problem with this scene was the ferryman being an imbecile.

 I am going to assume you dont have kids, never held your baby in your hands, fed her, clothed her, raised her. Maybe he would rather die trying than live with himself standing there doing nothing.

[Agitel]

He was at least trying to get the ferry back so that he could cross at some point.

[Beidomon]

On 11/21/2021 at 9:37 AM, Vartija said:

Finished a rewatch yesterday and I really think this episode was a bit lacking. Felt like the saying "close but no cigar", ie. I see what they were trying to do but the execution was't quite there. I think the biggest issue was that the dialogue was kind of flat and the Rand, Egwene & Moiraine drama felt a bit hamfisted. I don't like the way they are making Rand this aggressive & difficult to be around this early. I understand the motivation behind it because Rand was the most daring in challenging Moiraine, but the way it explodes out of him in accusations ("Did you put this (the bats) in our dreams?!") feels wrong and makes him needlessly unlikeable. They really leaning into him being a this kind of moody and accusatory type. Obviously there's some of that in Rand but I feel like they're not emphasizing his better qualities enough yet.  

 

Some +/- notes:

+I complained previously about the landscape but tbh, I must have misremembered because it was pretty spot on in this episode. Lots of forests, some clearings etc. is pretty much how I would expect the road from Two Rivers to Shadar Logoth be. I think my main issue was the escape from SH where the land looks really barren and the way the river was so close to the city.

+ I like that they're including the nightmares. Perhaps they could have delved a bit deeper into the subject though? Why are they having them, how they can be warded off, who's the man in the dream etc.

+ I thought the Manetheren song & Moiraine's story about it was a bit cheesy at first watch but it worked better on rewatch.

+ Lots of necessary tidbits about the One Power, three oaths etc. Maybe not delivered in the most striking or memorable way but at least it's there. 

- I didn't like how the decision to go to Shadar Logoth was solely made by Lan. Makes him look dumber and more incompetent than necessary. Especially with the "you've killed us all" blurt from Moiraine. 

- The book version of the events in Shadar Logoth was just a lot more memorable. The way the trollocs eventually dared to enter forcing the group to leave, the misty, slower moving Mashadar blocking the way combined with trollocs hunting them and the trollocs themselves dying from Mashadar. I didn't really like the setup of the escape either with the clicheish jump from a high wall to the river. And with no trollocs hunting them outside the city it's kind of weird how they couldn't just take their time to regroup right outside the city walls. 

Agree with pretty much every bit of this - except I thought ManETHeren singalong story time was cheesy and flat (it was awesome in the book tho). 

[Beidomon]

On 11/22/2021 at 11:16 AM, DojoToad said:

That idiot jumped into the water on his own.  What did he think he was going to do if he had swum across with all those trollocs there.  My problem with this scene was the ferryman being an imbecile.

He was worried about his family. I realize the writers were trying to demonstrate… something… but they didn’t do it very well. Mo could have stopped the ferryman or stopped the whirlpool and just brought the ferry aground on their side of the river. She did neither. The scene exists for no other reason than to show she can “inadvertently” kill people with the OP without breaking the Oath, but it just wasn’t a good setup for that. 

[Beidomon]

4 hours ago, Tim said:

Same with Egwene - she asks Moiraine “are you going to kill us like you killed the ferryman”, but then is persuaded by Moiraine’s response. This is very on-brand for Egwene - never shy about questioning authority but also more inclined to accept it if given a sound basis to - but just compressed into a single scene.

Mat and Rand are being handled pretty well. They’ve definitely aged up Eg’a personality further than she was in the books at this point, and I don’t think we’ll be getting any of her early chapter silliness, which seems like a missed opportunity for growth. 

[JenniferL]

It also shows that Moiraine just does not give a flip about collateral damage on her quest. 

[DojoToad]

6 hours ago, flinn said:

 I am going to assume you dont have kids, never held your baby in your hands, fed her, clothed her, raised her. Maybe he would rather die trying than live with himself standing there doing nothing.

Wow. Those are some pretty big assumptions- and incorrect. But no problem, turn a critique of a fictional character and situation into a personal attack. I’m sure the experience was cathartic. 

[LordyLord]

Thoughts on Episode

Its better paced than Episode 1

Not a fan of a couple of my favoutite scenes being cut (Matt Old tongue scene and Most of Barelon)

The Episode isnt bad it just gives a bit of a feeling of being soooo slow.

I think this season is meant to be binged not released weekly

I also cannot believe that they sepent 10M per episode.The show looks cheaper.

 

Id rate this Episode 5/10