tv show spoilers S1E2: Shadow's Waiting

[DaddyFinn]

I just noticed that when others sang of Manetheren, Rand was just trying to tap his thigh in rhythm. Nice little detail since he has not one drop of the same blood as the others.

 

Edit. Another one. In 50:21-50:22 when Mat is examining the dagger there's a quick glimpse of a figure going past the doorway behind him. Must be Fain or Mordeth. We hear a short whistling (similar to the one Fain did when he arrived to Two Rivers) just before Mat wakes up.

Edited November 19, 2021 by DaddyFinn

[Apoc81]

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:18 AM, Maximillion said:

You are being kind. It was terrible. Just a fast sprint through as much as they could cram into an episode without any development of the story. 
episode 1 was better but only because of the trolloc raid. The rest of it was the same mad rush through the story. I can’t believe non book readers will find any depth to this mess.

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Man, its not a book, of course it moves faster, the group is on the run. The last thing I want is huge dumps of information. They are doing an excellent job at showing so book readers understand, but new watchers can learn and speculate without spoiling every beat.

 

And I know two non book readers who loved the series so far when we finished this morning. They followed along just fine.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Apoc81

[Maximillion]

  On 11/19/2021 at 1:37 PM, Apoc81 said:

Man, its not a book, of course it moves faster, the group is on the run. The last thing I want is huge dumps of information. They are doing an excellent job at showing so book readers understand, but new watchers can learn and speculate without spoiling every beat.

 

And I know two non book readers who loved the series so far when we finished this morning. They followed along just fine.

 

 

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I don't doubt that there will be some who will like it, but IMHO it needs a LOT of people to like it to survive.

It's about $80m a series.  There are no free lunches.  The reaction is too mixed right now after the initial episode drop and it's getting it's fair share of people saying it's not only poor, but awful.

 

I watched the two episodes again that I watched last night - it's not just the pace it moves at (which is why I think they have the back story shorts which very few will bother with)...the story itself is not being told very well.  I did actually get more out of watching it a second time, but how many will bother with that?   It doesn't help that the sound quality seems off and the dialogue is not clear - especially Rand and Lan. That might be because I watched on a laptop, might try watching it on the big screen downstairs.  But overall the production looks and sounds poor to me at least - which I blame Rafe for.

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Maximillion

[Texas Grognard]

On the Dusty Wheel someone thought that Valda ate the Aes Sedai's roasted tongue. Valda ate a whole bird--an Ortolan Bunting. If I recall correctly this was featured prominently in Anne Rice's books. It's supposed to be a special delight, but when the French do it they cover their face with a napkin in order to hide their shame from God for engaging in such a decadent and depraved delight. Notably, Valda does NOT use a napkin, indicating that he has no shame.

 

Nice touch.

 

[Apoc81]

  On 11/19/2021 at 1:48 PM, Maximillion said:

 

I don't doubt that there will be some who will like it, but IMHO it needs a LOT of people to like it to survive.

It's about $80m a series.  There are no free lunches.  The reaction is too mixed right now after the initial episode drop and it's getting it's fair share of people saying it's not only poor, but awful.

 

I watched the two episodes again that I watched last night - it's not just the pace it moves at (which is why I think they have the back story shorts which very few will bother with)...the story itself is not being told very well.  I did actually get more out of watching it a second time, but how many will bother with that?   It doesn't help that the sound quality seems off and the dialogue is not clear - especially Rand and Lan. That might be because I watched on a laptop, might try watching it on the big screen downstairs.  But overall the production looks and sounds poor to me at least - which I blame Rafe for.

 

 

 

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I mean, hard disagree. The sound is incredible, and so is the cinematography. Watching on a laptop is a you problem.

Some of the practical effects are bad though, Trollocs looked horrible in movement. And from what I see, the public and critics enjoy it.

[Katherine]

I don't have a lot of nice things to say about this episode. The writing and directing felt more like a Senior Year at Berkley project than a high quality production. 

 

I liked the witch burning scene with Valda, but I did not like the encounter in the woods. An Aes Sedai and Warder allowed a CHild of Light to pat her down!!! Flaming unrealistic. 

 

Whoever is responsible for conceptualizing and executing Shadar Logoth and what is supposed to be mist needs to be fired because, Mother's Milk in a Cup,  that was HORRIBLE. 

 

Literally laughed when the horse disintegrated. Terrible work. 

 

 

Did they think the mist in Shadar Logoth is Machin Shin? Cuz...... it's not. 

 

 

Why? Why in the World does Ishmael look like that? That was....... I  have no words for how poorly that was done. Seriously? We can't hire quality people? 

 

That just seems low quality, and I don't understand why. They have the money and the fanbase. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Katherine

[Agitel]

I'm not sure what to say about Ishy. What they showed is a ringer for how he's described in the books. 

[DaddyFinn]

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Katherine said:

An Aes Sedai and Warder allowed a CHild of Light to pat her down!!! Flaming unrealistic. 

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Moiraine was injured and tired.

 

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Katherine said:

what is supposed to be mist needs to be fired because, Mother's Milk in a Cup,  that was HORRIBLE

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Imagine a white mist and white threads of One Power in the same scene.

 

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Katherine said:

Literally laughed when the horse disintegrated. Terrible work. 

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That could have been better.

 

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Katherine said:

Why? Why in the World does Ishmael look like that? That was....... I  have no words for how poorly that was done. Seriously? We can't hire quality people? 

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The little we saw wasn't that bad. Ishy was so cheesy in the books I could never take him seriously.

[Katherine]

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:29 PM, DaddyFinn said:

 

Imagine a white mist and white threads of One Power in the same scene

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Moraine... for some reason..... was injured, passed out, and not channeling.  So....... That wasn't the reason that changed it to a black shadow thing. 

 

And ok.... could we change it to be a black shadow thing? Sure. But it should look good.... that didn't. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Katherine

[Beidomon]

  On 11/19/2021 at 6:27 AM, Deadsy said:

If an Aes Sedai starts a forest fire and someone walks into it and burns to death an hour later did she break her oath?

(i.e. no)

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That’s a tad different than actually watching your weave kill someone as you are weaving it. She could have just as easily stopped him and sunk the ferry.

 

Not to quibble over what will amount to a throwaway scene, but it seems the writers deliberately did it to set up the explanation of the Oaths, and then didn’t even give Mo a very good explanation. Sloppy. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Beidomon

[Meskell]

  On 11/19/2021 at 5:52 AM, Beidomon said:

Thoughts in order…. (and remember I really LIKED Epi 1)

 

Whitecloaks seem menacing. Is cutting off the hands supposed to signify something? Can you not channel without hands “in this turning?”

 

Oh so that’s the title sequence. Sorry all…. that’s pretty lame. And the music is extremely meh. That’s no GOT - not even close. 

 

Trolloc effects aren’t always that good.

 

So wait did Moraine just kill the ferryman with the OP?

 

Campfire exposition was forced and lame. Man so far Epi 2 stinks.

 

Matt has a good moment with Rand. 

 

That’s how you pronounce ManETHeren? Okay. It was a fine monologue in the books but it doesn’t work here. 

 

Why’d they make the Aes Sedai rings look like something out of a crackerjack box?

 

This is Matt’s episode. He gets all the good lines.

 

Shadar Logoth was beautiful but the action sequence was extremely underwhelming. I expected so much more. It was over in a few minutes. That’s what she said. 
 

I’m not as upset about super ninja warrior Nynaeve as I thought I’d be. 

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I was expecting to be pronounced Man-e-therin. Man-eth-erin made it sound a bit, weak?

[Beidomon]

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:33 PM, Katherine said:

And ok.... could we change it to be a black shadow thing? Sure. But it should look good.... that didn't. 

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I agree it didn’t look nearly as cool as a killer fog would. But thankfully the whole Shadar Logoth set piece is over in about 17 seconds. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Beidomon

[Beidomon]

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:35 PM, Meskell said:

I was expecting to be pronounced Man-e-therin. Man-eth-erin made it sound a bit, weak?

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Yes. I’m not a pronunciation nerd and maybe that’s even the right way to say it, but it doesn’t sound nearly as good. 

[Beidomon]

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Katherine said:

I don't have a lot of nice things to say about this episode.

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Me neither. And I really like E1. 

 

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Katherine said:

I liked the witch burning scene with Valda, but I did not like the encounter in the woods. An Aes Sedai and Warder allowed a CHild of Light to pat her down!!! Flaming unrealistic.

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Can anyone explain the cut off hands thing? And Valda is an excellent creep but kind of a shit Questioner. He didn’t think to just ask “are you Aes Sedai”?

 

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Katherine said:

Whoever is responsible for conceptualizing and executing Shadar Logoth and what is supposed to be mist needs to be fired because, Mother's Milk in a Cup,  that was HORRIBLE.

 

Literally laughed when the horse disintegrated. Terrible work. 

 

Did they think the mist in Shadar Logoth is Machin Shin? Cuz...... it's not. 

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I’m pretty sure that lands on Rafe. And yes I’d support firing him. 

 

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Katherine said:

Why? Why in the World does Ishmael look like that? That was....... I  have no words for how poorly that was done. Seriously? We can't hire quality people? 

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I dunno - he might be ok. I’ll need to see more. 

[Agitel]

I have to assume that Valda thinks cutting off hands stops the channeling. Now, we know some book-Aes Sedai integrate some physical motions in their weaves. Moiraine does use her arms to cast fireballs, which we see is necessary for the way she learned but really not necessary overall. So they could do some retconning here and make that a misunderstanding on Valda's part that has coincidentally been effective. Or maybe it's just what it looks like.

 

I wish they explained stedding then and that was the real solution. Or forkroot. And the hands was just a cruel punishment. Or maybe they will later.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Agitel

[SinisterDeath]

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:35 PM, Meskell said:

Man-eth-erin made it sound a bit, weak?

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That's how I pronounce it.

 

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:36 PM, Beidomon said:

I agree it didn’t look nearly as cool as a killer fog would. But thankfully the whole Shadar Logoth set piece is over in about 17 seconds. 

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Fog might have been hard to pull off.
Plus we have the "black wind" to look forward to...which I think will get the white fog treatment.

 

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:51 PM, Agitel said:

I have to assume that Valda thinks cutting off hands stops the channeling. Now, we know some book-Aes Sedai integrate some physical motions in their weaves.

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Most WT Aes Sedai do. Wise ones criticize (roast) them for it.

 

Also, it might be very difficult for a channeler to power through the literal shock of having their hands cut off, possibly a concussion from a club to the head, while they're feet are literally burning.

 

 

[Mnemosyne]

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:43 PM, Beidomon said:

And Valda is an excellent creep but kind of a shit Questioner. He didn’t think to just ask “are you Aes Sedai”?

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LOL, I thought this too, but then maybe he knows that an Aes Sedai would find a way to get around answering it...

[Meskell]

  On 11/19/2021 at 3:18 PM, Mnemosyne said:

 

LOL, I thought this too, but then maybe he knows that an Aes Sedai would find a way to get around answering it...

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You would still give it a go though wouldn’t you.

[Apoc81]

  On 11/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Katherine said:

I don't have a lot of nice things to say about this episode. The writing and directing felt more like a Senior Year at Berkley project than a high quality production. 

 

I liked the witch burning scene with Valda, but I did not like the encounter in the woods. An Aes Sedai and Warder allowed a CHild of Light to pat her down!!! Flaming unrealistic. 

 

Whoever is responsible for conceptualizing and executing Shadar Logoth and what is supposed to be mist needs to be fired because, Mother's Milk in a Cup,  that was HORRIBLE. 

 

Literally laughed when the horse disintegrated. Terrible work. 

 

 

Did they think the mist in Shadar Logoth is Machin Shin? Cuz...... it's not. 

 

 

Why? Why in the World does Ishmael look like that? That was....... I  have no words for how poorly that was done. Seriously? We can't hire quality people? 

 

That just seems low quality, and I don't understand why. They have the money and the fanbase. 

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Literally nothing about this show seems or looks low quality. That much is 100% certain. It looks incredible. Show has problems, but some of the stuff you stated is flat out untrue. 

[Apoc81]

  On 11/19/2021 at 3:21 PM, Meskell said:

You would still give it a go though wouldn’t you.

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You think he hasn't? He has 7 of their rings at his waist, clearly if the question got the answer he wanted, he would know.

[Agitel]

  On 11/19/2021 at 3:18 PM, Mnemosyne said:

 

LOL, I thought this too, but then maybe he knows that an Aes Sedai would find a way to get around answering it...

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As far as Valda is concerned they are all Darkfriends and he probably thinks the Three Oaths are a load of bollocks anyway, so why ask something a Darkfriend will obviously lie about?

[notpropaganda73]

Yeah I was ok with Valda not really questioning her, his creepy demeanour and arrogance came off really well in that scene I thought. 

 

I mentioned in the overall season 1 thread, I thought they set up Shadar Logoth very well but it was all done too quickly to really have an impact. And yes, Mashadar was... disappointing. I am a little worried they will merge it with Machin Shin. I hope they handle The Ways as a whole a lot better.

[Katherine]

  On 11/19/2021 at 3:40 PM, Apoc81 said:

Literally nothing about this show seems or looks low quality. That much is 100% certain. It looks incredible. Show has problems, but some of the stuff you stated is flat out untrue. 

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The writing, direction, and CGI are low quality. 

[Elder_Haman]

I don't know about this majority/minority thing. Because I also felt E2 was far stronger than E1. 

 

What I liked:

Perrin's initial meeting with the wolves was fantastic.

Rand blowing up at Moiraine. I'm very impressed with Josha.

Mat finding the dagger. (Was Fain whistling when he came into town? I'll have to go back and rewatch. Love Fain, by the way.)

The Whitecloaks. For all the whinging about their outfits, they were formidable. Valda in particular is wonderful.

Better character moments. I liked Egwene and Moiraine (though I felt her explanation about avoiding the oaths was poorly written).

 

What I didn't like:

They rushed Shadar Logoth. They should have built Mashadar more slowly. It was just sort of appeared and ate the horse.

Getting out of Shadar Logoth didn't make sense. Mashadar moved too quickly IMO - the escape felt very "plot armor".

 

Overall, this was a better episode than E1. 

7.5/10

 

And now, I have to hit pause because I won't get a chance to watch E3 until after work. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Elder_Haman

[Beidomon]

  On 11/19/2021 at 4:40 PM, Katherine said:

 

The writing, direction, and CGI are low quality. 

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I’d agree on some of the trolloc CGI. The magic looked pretty great.

 

I don’t know whether to call the direction low quality or not. Maybe some editing for sure. 
 

The writing - well people know my opinions on some of their choices. But I can’t say the dialogue is terrible or anything.