what's up with Noal (thread revival)

[Phiotr AlManera]

Just reread aCoS, where Noal appears first. This guy always intrigued me cause I couldn't figure him out. The first scene wich mentions him

Noal Charin POV - He is watching a white three-story house where two Aes Sedai are staying. It is the home of a goldsmith. The two thugs Arnin and Nad are there. He has missing memories. He is the old guy Mat spotted who followed Lady Shiaine from the racetrack. He has had two long knives over thirty years. He knows there is something important that he has to remember.

(from http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/, ACoS: Chapter 17)

doesn't mention his name nor what he is doing there or how he got there. Noal doesn't introduce himself until tPoD.

[edit] and here's a discussion on this

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.2_rest-chars/2.2.3_barrel-man.html

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.4_yore/2.4.04_j-farstrider.html

So, I looked a bit further and found that most people agree that Noal Charin is Jain Charin. I hadn't figured this one out. Here's some more info:

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/characters/n/noal_charin.html

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/characters/j/jain_charin.html

 

There have been other threads about this

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1429&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=noal+charin&start=15

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3660&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=noal&start=15

but it has been a while, so I decided to bring this back (once more)

 

Here are the questions.

What's up with Noal? What's he doing there? How did he get there? Is he a DF? What is his goal?

[Telcar]

Jain Farstrider vanished in 981 NE

 

what year is it now?

[Phiotr AlManera]

It's 2007 AD man!

 

Serious now,

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/history/timeline.html

Late Spring - Mid Summer 998 NE

The Eye of the World

 

Spring 1000 NE

A Memory of Light

[Elwinn Taron]

If I remember correctly, Ishmael screwed with Jain's mind, and made him do something he didn't want to do. I believe he is the man that came to Loil's stedding so ill 20 years before TEoTW, that warned of a threat to the Eye of the World. It's the effects of Ishmael's compulsion/torture that has put holes in his memory, and made him rather vague. I don't think he's a DF at all, and the POV that he has something to do, and enough time for that, is that the pattern has woven him in place to help. Whether that is just to help Mat, or to specifically help Mat rescue Moiraine, I don't have an opinion.

[Sila Darklover]

Did anyone else think Noal was Fain at first, or am I just insane?

[Luckers]

Actually its 2007CE, ph'iotr. The Lord God Political Correctness strikes again.

 

But no, Noal is Jain. Our first inkling is the name, Charin. Then we have the damage to his memory, the damage to his hands. We have his accurate knowledge of Shara, a place Jain Farstrider is famous for going to. Then we have the bitterness with which he talks about Jain leaving his wife to die--clearly not the words of a cousin. We have his intention to join Mat and his comments about the Tower of Genjei, both the words of an adventurer like Farstrider.

 

Altogether it paints a pretty clear picture.

[Phiotr AlManera]

Yeah but, is he a DF?

And how did he know of the DF's in Ebo Dar, Carridin and the two black sisters?

[Luckers]

He isn't. Ishamael would never have needed to torture him, nor release him in the manner he did, if he were a darkfriend. And i imagine he learnt of the darkfriends through investigation. He was said to be good at that.

[Sila Darklover]

Yeah, it was obvious after Far Madding that he couldn't be Fain. But I was taken in at first by the description of a bony old man with a "long knife" who looked vaguely familiar to Mat. I kept waiting for him to kill or maim somebody. Glad to hear he's evidently someone very different.

[grump]

Aren't you talking about 2 different old guys. Mat talks to the guy at the house and he talks to Noal I thought the guy at the house was Old Culley that they were talking about inside at the time ?? Educate me Please?

[Infestra]

Aren't you talking about 2 different old guys. Mat talks to the guy at the house and he talks to Noal I thought the guy at the house was Old Culley that they were talking about inside at the time ?? Educate me Please?

 

I was thinking that it was old culley or Sammael in disguise just before he went to check up on the whitecloak Carridin?

 

Peace! Could be I need to read again though. :)

[Guest Barmacral]

Do you really think that Sammael would EVER disguise himself as a begger?

[Infestra]

Do you really think that Sammael would EVER disguise himself as a begger?

 

Nah. Momentary lapse.

 

Call it a brain fart if you will. LOL :lol:

 

When Jaichim informed Sammael that Mat was in town, he appeared to not have known and placed killing him as secondary on the list in comparison to finding the stash in Ebou Dar.

 

Peace! Thanks for the reminder to give my head a shake.

[Luckers]

Some have suggested that Old Cully is Graendal's old man, but other then that no one really knows who he is.

[Phiotr AlManera]

Some have suggested that Noal is Graendal's old man.

[Luckers]

I dont see how thats overly tenable after KoD

[Myyrth]

This is actually totally mind blowing, but completely amazing news!

 

I never put it together. TY so much. Noal is Jain Farstrider... astounding and wonderful.

 

I am so happy right now :D

[World_of_Wheel_of_Time]

This is amazing, according to Noal in KoD he's a cousin? Or maybe it was another book, thank you for clearing everything up.

 

Noal asks Mat if he's related to Farstrider, we don't know who Mat is, spouting crazy Old

Tongue and stuff, he might be some lord's descendent that could be related.

 

That would that Mat and Noal are distantly related, this is a bit of a stretch, but it would be very cool

[Guest Dreadlord]

Noal, at some point im sure, gets angry one time when talking of Jain. He says something like "Jain let himself be used as a tool by-" and then cuts off as if he realized he was going to say "-Ishamael." I reckon hes a darkfriend

[Daedallus]

I reckon Noal is a conflicted Darkfriend. As Jain he let himself be used and saw no way out, he "lost" himself in Ebou Dar. Even darkfriends can regret thier choices. Now a Ta'veren has swept through, and hes been brought back into the spotlight, and hes trying to figure out where his loyalties lie.

 

 

[Chel Vanin]

I reckon Noal is a conflicted Darkfriend. As Jain he let himself be used and saw no way out, he "lost" himself in Ebou Dar. Even darkfriends can regret thier choices. Now a Ta'veren has swept through, and hes been brought back into the spotlight, and hes trying to figure out where his loyalties lie.

 

 

 

I don't think so... I remember Ishy saying "...I painted Jain Farstrider as a fool..." which sounds to me more like he manipulated Jain more than turned him. Also Noal/Jain's hands are pretty messed up i think he was tortured in some way. He may have given info to the shadow but i don't think he became a DF by giving oaths to the DO.

[Majsju]

I reckon Noal is a conflicted Darkfriend. As Jain he let himself be used and saw no way out, he "lost" himself in Ebou Dar. Even darkfriends can regret thier choices. Now a Ta'veren has swept through, and hes been brought back into the spotlight, and hes trying to figure out where his loyalties lie.

 

That could have worked if it was not for Ingtar. What you suggest is quite similar to how Ingtar regretted his choices, and strived to come back to the Light.

[professorskar]

He isn't. Ishamael would never have needed to torture him, nor release him in the manner he did, if he were a darkfriend.

 

Although I agree that Noal isn't a Darkfriend...I don't think Padan Fain would agree with your reasoning. ;D

[Guest leebarr]

Noal is Jain. He is just trying to forget his past and the lost of his wife.