Rand after the Last Battle

[Stephen Hawkwing]

When a channeler looses his ability to, well, channel, then he dies of sadness because he has nothing to live for without the joy the one source brings. Rand, not being able to feel Saidin and without a purpose in the world, should feel the same way, shouldn't he? Yet it is stated that Rand felt "limitless relief" as he realized he couldn't channel anymore. Why? Shouldn't he, like, cry out in pain?

Edited October 19, 2017 by BFG

[wotfan4472]

No. The outcome you are thinking of is gentling, when someone severs or cuts the ability. The result is that the inability to channel after this is short lived because it is abrupt and unnatural, causing the effects you are thinking of. What happened with Rand is he used his channelling abilities above what he could handle, so lost the channelling. The difference here is that it is a result of naturally pushing past the body and soul's tolerance to handle such vast levels of the Powers he was using, so does not suffer the after effects of gentling because it is a natural result of using to much.

Edited October 15, 2017 by wotfan4472

[Stephen Hawkwing]

But didn't Aes Sedai like Setalle Anan struggle to survive even though they lost their ability through natural circumstances as well? And isn't what kills the channeler the loss of his/her will to live, not some inner wound (according to Siuan Sanche)?

[Sabio]

They do, even being burnt out can make one simply want to give up.  A main reason why so few new weaves wre discovered because no Aes Sedai is willing to risk burning herself out experimenting.  

[Stephen Hawkwing]

Exactly. So Rand should experience the same despair and grief as other victims do? Or does Rand's newfound ability to control the pattern to a certain degree also grant the ability to change someone's soul so he can channel again, judging from the assumption that Rand didn't just burn out but had his ability taken away by the Creator (When Rand woke up in his new body, he was described as "Rand al'Thor, only Rand" which means there is no part of Lews Therin left in him, not even his soul and the ability to channel comes, as Lanfear explained, from the soul.)

[jack of shadows]

@stephen hawkwing,

 

"rand al'thor only rand which means there is no part of lews therin left in him.."

no,the correct quote is "rand al'thor--JUST rand al'thor--",meaning,the person who

woke up is not the dragon nor the king of illian etc anymore,he is just rand al'thor.

 

by the way,rand didn't feel limitless relief,if you're quoting someone,do it properly,

"he paused,then smiled and felt an enormous relief."

Edited October 15, 2017 by jack of shadows

[Sabio]

Rand channled so much power he was going to kill himself, not just burn himself out.  COuld be something associated with the body swap.

[Shad_]

Sorry for popping in with nothing of value to contribute, but could you alter the thread title? As someone who hasn't finished the series yet, I don't like spoilers staring me down every time I click View New Posts. 

[Stephen Hawkwing]

I will try to quote properly but I'll have to translate from german since I don't own the english version.. It may vary from the original but all that counts is the meaning behind the words. Rand feels relief. He is not Lews Therin anymore.

But back to the question: How did Rand loose his powers? By accident or because the Creator wanted him to have a normal life?

[dexterryu]

I didn't get that Rand burned himself out/was severed. I think that it had to do with whatever he did manipulating the pattern and/or the body swap. So it wasn't like he was truly severed. He was just unable to channel any longer... and given his new pattern manipulation ability he probably doesn't need to.

[Orderofolde]

Rand basically wove creation itself, and as we see with the pipe at the end he can manipulate and change reality itself, so basically he was upgraded in his abilities and doesn't need to channel.  This is something we see hinted at with his children's abilities to not even embrace saidin or saidar, as they are in a constant state of a sort of "Oneness" with the power.

[Stephen Hawkwing]

The body swap shouldn't change anything (as said, the ability to channel comes from the soul) and he was still able to channel and use the one force to rebuild the DO's dungeon even after he wove the pattern.

What if the ability was taken from him hy the creator to grant him a new life in peace without Asha'man constantly searching for the powerful channeler that doesn't seem to need any training?

As for his children's abilities, I don't know if that was special in any way. Selene stated that Rand might be able to stay in the oneness forever (it was also hinted that Rhavin did the same thing so it is probable that every channeler could do this is he/she was skilled enough).

[dexterryu]

The body swap shouldn't change anything (as said, the ability to channel comes from the soul) and he was still able to channel and use the one force to rebuild the DO's dungeon even after he wove the pattern.

What if the ability was taken from him hy the creator to grant him a new life in peace without Asha'man constantly searching for the powerful channeler that doesn't seem to need any training?

As for his children's abilities, I don't know if that was special in any way. Selene stated that Rand might be able to stay in the oneness forever (it was also hinted that Rhavin did the same thing so it is probable that every channeler could do this is he/she was skilled enough).

 

My point with the body swap is that it was something unique, originating from the crossed balefire streams. So while the swap itself didn't directly cause him not be able to channel it may have had something to do with it. Maybe because Moridin/Ishamael died in the process along with Rands body? Who knows. RJ is probably the only one that could answer that question.

[BFG]

Title changed as per request, if you want it changed back again I will as we're past the spoiler time limit

[jack of shadows]

I wasn't aware that there was a spoiler time limit,what was it?three years?

[Sabio]

There was a post awhile back about so much time has passed now that spoilers were no longer an issue.

[jack of shadows]

Thank you,i probably missed it.

[Swigaro]

It might be splitting hairs, but I always assumed that Rand didn't experience any of the side effects of severing/burning out because his body wasn't severed/burned out, Moridin's was.  Demandred says earlier in AMoL that drawing the True Power through someone else (like he did to Taim and Rand and the ladies did to Moridin) was a good way to burn someone out.  Rand was protected from overdrawing by being in the link with two women.  Moridin was burned out during the sealing and then Rand body swapped into his body, which had already lost the ability to channel. Perhaps it is the act of being severed/burned out that causes the side effects.

[Sabio]

Rand's POV says the amount of the Powers he was holding would soon burn him away.  The sword was flawed so there was no buffer preventing him from drawing too much of the power.   Plus there were other ways to burn yourself out, channeling while exhausted for instance.

[Stephen Hawkwing]

Interesting theory but it has a flaw. The (in)ability to channel comes from the soul, not the body. Cyande stated this and when Nynaeve healed Logain she said the his body had no wounds (and that should mean that the wound from his servering was on the soul, I guess).

So Moridin's severing should have been swapped with his soul.

[Swigaro]

Rand's POV says the amount of the Powers he was holding would soon burn him away.  The sword was flawed so there was no buffer preventing him from drawing too much of the power.   Plus there were other ways to burn yourself out, channeling while exhausted for instance.

Yes, but Moridin was using Calandor at the time, not Rand.  Also, Rand was in a link with two women.  It wouldn't matter that there was no buffer on the sword because he was protected by the two women.  That is why Cadsuane said the only safe way to use the sword was in a link with two women.  That is absolutely what Rand was thinking at the time, but since Moirane and Nynaeve suffered no ill effects, the same should be true for Rand.  Makes no difference in the end, as Rand's body ended up dead, and Rand (in Moridin) unable to channel.  I just read that scene I referenced before between Demandred and Taim as Brandon's attempt, though a bit heavy handed, to set up post TG Rand being unable to channel.

 

 

Interesting theory but it has a flaw. The (in)ability to channel comes from the soul, not the body. Cyande stated this and when Nynaeve healed Logain she said the his body had no wounds (and that should mean that the wound from his servering was on the soul, I guess).

So Moridin's severing should have been swapped with his soul.

Again, true, but I believe the body plays a role as well.  That is why when the forsaken were getting reborn (Moridin, Cyndane, the 'Gars, etc...) not just any body would do.  I really don't know if Moridin would have been able to channel in Rand's body, post swap (assuming he'd been conscious).  I believe that there was an RJ quote at some point that said that a soul with the ability to channel didn't end up able to channel every time they are reborn.

 

As I said in my first post, it is splitting hairs, because it is clear that Rand can't channel post swap.  He is also, unquestionably as unique case.  If anyone would be able to just get over being severed, it would be Rand... 

[Stephen Hawkwing]

You're right. In the meetings of the forsaken there have been hints supporting what you just said. But that would mean that he can't just be healed by Nynaeve or Damer Flinn, does it?

[jack of shadows]

Rand doesn't care a whit about his previous power,he returned from the last battle with the ability to alter reality, his powers evolved,in my opinion,he is even more powerful now,so who needs channeling?

[BFG]

Rand doesn't care a whit about his previous power,he returned from the last battle with the ability to alter reality, his powers evolved,in my opinion,he is even more powerful now,so who needs channeling?

The only way I can like this is if I follow the theory that he's still in a ~dream reality and we didn't get the real ending ala Inception style

[BFG]

But even without the ability to alter reality I don't think Rand would care if he was 'healed' or not, he's never wanted the power and prior to the end of GS didn't know what to do with it. Since tGS I don't see him ever heading back to the farm, but nor do I see him in any leadership role. At least in the short term I see him travelling, long term I'm not so sure

Edited October 22, 2017 by BFG