Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[SinisterDeath]

4 minutes ago, Tiinker said:

 

It's kind of surprising. The majority of people I know liked this film. The reception seems to be all over the place and depending on who you're friends with, you're going to hear quite different things. 

Definitely. Some people I know only heard positive. I only heard the absolute worst about it. (A lot of hate from the alt-right as well)

[Niniel]

I really liked it! There were two things that I didn´t like - the "humor" and Finn´s and Rose´s adventure on the casino planet. Othere than that I liked it. Kylo Ren is a great "villain", much more interesting than usual villains. I love when he gets teenage emo. I´m more interested in him than Rey. The last scene with Luke was great and Yoda was in the film! Great Yoda is. 

[Tiinker]

28 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

Re: Hyperspace as a Weapon

Maybe it's a size/mass thing? AFAIK the ship they were using was the largest the Rebels have ever had, and while less massive then Snoke's ship, it wasn't like an X-Wing. My guess? Perhaps it was a lets see if this works + kamikaze run. (It also strikes me as a blatant rip off of the Picard Maneuver gone horribly wrong.)
Side note: No one finds it at all troubling that the Rebels employ sucide bombings, and if the ending show's us anything, Child Soldiers?

 

 

irt the last part, I feel like there was at least 3 separate occasions where suicide bombing was the answer.

 

1. opening scene where she drops the bombs and destroys her own ship.

2. commander going to suicide into the imperial ship to save the remainder of the fleet after they'd run out of gas.

3. finn trying to blow up the battering ram.

[Krakalakachkn]

13 hours ago, Tyzack said:

RO was an amazing "Star Wars as a place" movie - exploring the universe with throw away characters.

 

I agree that Po was functionally useless in TLJ - and personally I think he was supurfluous in TFA. Correct me if I'm wrong but he's there to take up the other half of the jedi master/amazing pilot combination which was in Luke and Anakin, and therefore it is expected that auidences like/want an amazing pilot ... basically, at this point, to CGI cool stuff? He's diposal.

 

I liked the casino planet sub-plot; leaving the spaceship on the beach makes sense for Fin, as he has no experince with "life?" outside the order; the girl could've helped. The moral statement - war makes monsters of us all - is not new, and probably could have been told better.

 

Snoke is/was the worst star wars villian in that he's built up to be more than a one-off throwaway (like maul or duko), but is way more powerful? My guess is it's done so that there are no "other threads" in the final show-down. 

 

The "what can the force do" questions raised by this are annoying because we're 40 years and 8 movies in; the world/magic system should be well established by now.

 

I still think it was a good movie.

[For the record I'm comparing it what would generically be called these days as "super-hero" movies, not to LotR, or anything ... basically because it fails the comparison to epic fantasy/sci-fi so spectacularly if you were to hold it to those standards it would be horrible]

 

@Tyzack I've always been more excited about the one-offs than the extended trilogy.  Such much room for activities!

 

He's supposed to be a new Wedge Antilles but obviously he's an idiot.

 

The local spaceport would have hailed them and said, "what you're doing is illegal, return to the course we sent you."  And yes, I have no problem with the moral sentiment itself, but as you said it could have been done a lot better and without wasting 30 minutes.  Hell, go watch Lord of War - there was an entire movie devoted to it.  

 

Nick Cage is legend

 

Lucas was never as interested in establishing a system as he was special effects and trite moral themes.  It's really unfortunate.

 

Fair enough.  The first time I saw it I walked out nodding my head and saying "cool."  The second time I was bored and annoyed.

[Krakalakachkn]

15 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Re: Leia;

This movie takes place 30-40+ years after Episode 6? It didn't take much suspension of belief to figure that Leia had plenty of time to pick up a few tricks from Luke, a possible connection to Luke like Rey has with Ren. (I mean.. How have people not picked that up?) and of course the ol' "The force imparted to her the knowledge of how to Force Pull/Shield her self "

 

Plus apparently space-walking has been covered in the novels, and possibly the animated series? (going off of everything I've heard)

 

Re: Hyperspace as a Weapon

Maybe it's a size/mass thing? AFAIK the ship they were using was the largest the Rebels have ever had, and while less massive then Snoke's ship, it wasn't like an X-Wing. My guess? Perhaps it was a lets see if this works + kamikaze run. (It also strikes me as a blatant rip off of the Picard Maneuver gone horribly wrong.)
Side note: No one finds it at all troubling that the Rebels employ sucide bombings, and if the ending show's us anything, Child Soldiers?

 

Re: Casino Planet

Only problem I had with this, was it took to long.

 

Re: Snoke

This was a meh factor to me. Ohh things didn't go as planned and we didn't get to hear his backstory before being killed! Surprises/Twists and what's effectively a 2 movie long Aristocrat Joke (Long winded story, boring punch line), if anything was them trolling the die-hard fans that got there panties in a twist over a black storm trooper. 

Re: Rey & Ben

The fake romance going between them is ... whatever? I mean, I don't exactly what to see Ben with no shirt on.. I don't think many ladies do either. Rey's just.. out of his league.

If anything, I'm not entirely positive what the end game was for Snoke to force-connect him to Rey. Re-create a Padme/Anakin thing maybe?


I do like the aspect that everyone's prophecies are wrong. They get the words right, but the details don't pan out how they expect them to. How will Ben's prophecies back fire? Can he single highhandedly kill an army of child-Jedi like Anakin did? Or is that something not even Ben can do?

 

So the problem is that with the new movies the people upstairs declared that all the books are no longer cannon, so while almost everything has been completely covered in the books, now that no longer matters.

 

Leia:

 

I am perfectly fine with Leia's force use because I've read the majority of star wars books written, but I guarantee 90% of viewers (who never read a book) didn't see it that way.  All of my friends are in that category and all of them poopood it.  All of them.

 

Hyperspace:

 

They addressed this in the novels and all ships are equipped with a sensor that detects objects and will automatically yank a ship out of hyperspace.  Laura Dern would have had to disengage something wired into the basic programming of the ship in approx. 1 minute.  

 

But again, the problem is that the above explanation is no longer canon, so who knows.  Honestly I'm surprised Snoke's entire ship didn't go up since a giant ass ship ripped into it faster than the speed of light.  Your size of scale argument could be valid, but what about the smaller ships getting beat up by regular old star destroyers? What's their excuse? Btw, Mon Calamari cruisers would dwarf the transport ship used in TFA.

[Krakalakachkn]

15 hours ago, Tiinker said:

I didn't really like the Force Awakens at all but at least it had some enjoyment as an action film. 

 

The story here was so bad that I couldn't even enjoy the action because the scenes leading to the action were so mind boggling ridiculous.

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Examples:

 

Stages a mutiny meanwhile all the leaders on board have a plan (which is a really bad plan. It's just use the escape pods, which the Imperial ship just won't notice for some reason, and go to a nearby planet and chill for a while.

 

Goes and finds a professional code-breaker and comes back within some hours to save the day? What did they accomplish during this whole 30-40 minute episode of the story? 

 

The pilots are speeding towards the battering ram when the base is under attack. Everyone turns back. After deliberating for 5-10 seconds Poe decides to keep on going to suicide to save the day. The girl turns back to follow him. Suddenly the girl shows up out of nowhere flying in from the SIDE to push them both out of the way. Wtf? How did she even catch up let alone fly in at a 90 degree angle? 

 

Kiss now? Kill me.

 

Luke Skywalker - arguably the most powerful jedi to ever live, the one who brought balance to the force, defeated the Sith by saving his father who tortured and killed hundreds.

 

They killed this character in this film. He's going to attempt to kill his sister's son in his sleep because he sees the dark side? Mate.

 

Then, his unwillingness to join the resistance and fix the shit that he started? 

 
 

 

 

 

I hate this film.

 

 

@Tiinker

 

The rebel ships were shielded from the First Order's sensors, that is until Poe and Finn's plan led the only code slicer who could give the FO access to those codes directly onto Snoke's ship.  They should be executed for their incompetence at the very least, let alone their treason.

 

Rose suddenly showing up was bulls***.  Way to toss all believability out the window.  Also Finn should have died.

 

Agreed - unnecessary.

 

He went to confront him, not kill him.  The level of the dark side he found in Ben's mind caused a momentary gut reaction, much like the way you would grimace or pull away if you stuck your hand in a bag and encountered a bunch of creepy crawlies.

 

Luke acts like a baby in this movie.  It's really grating imo.  What grated even more was how everyone was praising Hamill's role as "the best of his career."  Really?  I can't see it.  I'd take Professor Arnold any day.

 

 

[Krakalakachkn]

Doing away with the jedi/sith dynamic was the right move. 

 

Unfortunately the producers, director, and writers made the wrong calls on everything else.

[SinisterDeath]

5 hours ago, Krakalakachkn said:

But again, the problem is that the above explanation is no longer canon, so who knows.  Honestly I'm surprised Snoke's entire ship didn't go up since a giant ass ship ripped into it faster than the speed of light.  Your size of scale argument could be valid, but what about the smaller ships getting beat up by regular old star destroyers? What's their excuse? Btw, Mon Calamari cruisers would dwarf the transport ship used in TFA.

Well it IS Science Fantasy after all.

Crashing even an X wing into Snokes ship at the speed of light would be more than enough to destroy it. But not in Star Wars universe.. apparently.

 

Weapon power vs shield/hull strength is what it is.. I'm sure there's graphs/stats that show X wings and Tie Fighters have some pretty powerful weapons for their size...

 

Course, if you go the Hard Sci-Fi route, swarm-fighters are pretty redundant. 
You could hit a ship from 500km away before they even knew you were there, and easily take out all those little ships before they even got close. But watching Cosmic Battle Ship isn't nearly as fun as watching top gun fighter pilot drama.

 

Quote

He went to confront him, not kill him.  The level of the dark side he found in Ben's mind caused a momentary gut reaction, much like the way you would grimace or pull away if you stuck your hand in a bag and encountered a bunch of creepy crawlies.

 

Luke acts like a baby in this movie.  It's really grating imo.  What grated even more was how everyone was praising Hamill's role as "the best of his career."  Really?  I can't see it.  I'd take Professor Arnold any day.

Hey! Hamil summoning his inner Joker was epic. Specially when he makes eye contact with Rey drinking that Green milk, asserting his dominance. Total alpha move.

[Tyzack]

22 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Definitely. Some people I know only heard positive. I only heard the absolute worst about it. (A lot of hate from the alt-right as well)

 

The siloing of movie opinions has begun...people moderate their opinions to fit in with their friends.

[Tyzack]

47 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Well it IS Science Fantasy after all.

Crashing even an X wing into Snokes ship at the speed of light would be more than enough to destroy it. But not in Star Wars universe.. apparently.

 

Weapon power vs shield/hull strength is what it is.. I'm sure there's graphs/stats that show X wings and Tie Fighters have some pretty powerful weapons for their size...

 

Course, if you go the Hard Sci-Fi route, swarm-fighters are pretty redundant. 
You could hit a ship from 500km away before they even knew you were there, and easily take out all those little ships before they even got close. But watching Cosmic Battle Ship isn't nearly as fun as watching top gun fighter pilot drama.

 

Hey! Hamil summoning his inner Joker was epic. Specially when he makes eye contact with Rey drinking that Green milk, asserting his dominance. Total alpha move.

 

Inter-universe sci-fi fights are the neridest, dumbest, and coolest things ever.

 

The power output of a warp drive is more than a death star; a galay-class star ship -could- destroy a planet, but they don't because JL-Pipes won't let them.

 

I wonder if hundreds of tie fighters couldn't overwhelm their shields, though. We don't really see one-vs-numbers alot in the ST universe (DS9 has some lots vs lots battles, and the one lots vs DS9 [whose power level is ... writer dependant]. However, the suicide tactic seems to be valid in both, as it's what Riker (in BoBWp2) and Worf (in FC) try.

 

... but, back to TLJ,

 

I liked it. It worked in universe - though it got some things wrong, and had some supurflious plots and characters [Po, IMO, is useless]. I liked Luke in it, to be contraversial. 

 

His character was always more on-the-fence about things than even Lia, so I can see him retreating when his nephew tried to kill him and blows up his school. I liked Yoda's lesson; learn from your mistakes, and I liked his actions at the end.

 

Instead of hating on TLJ, I'd be much more interested in plot speculation around the last movie.

[SinisterDeath]

Well, Luke is clearly a force Ghost. He only died because he finally found peace (Remember the dual suns?) So he can clearly be in the last movie.

Rey stole the books, so Yoda Trolled Luke in burning down the tree... Ironically doing exactly what Ben said. Burn it all down. Let go of the past. To be one with the Force is about letting go. And about letting the new generations continue to grow.

Unfortunately... Child Soldiers. And hopefully a scene where Ben fights a horde of Padawons before being killed by them... reverse of how Anakin turned to the dark side.

[Krakalakachkn]

11 hours ago, Tyzack said:

Instead of hating on TLJ, I'd be much more interested in plot speculation around the last movie.

 

Heard.

 

I just can't imagine that anything I say will be right because what I want to see and what Disney/Abrams will come up with will be hella far apart.

[Krakalakachkn]

10 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Unfortunately... Child Soldiers. And hopefully a scene where Ben fights a horde of Padawons before being killed by them... reverse of how Anakin turned to the dark side.

 

You keep saying this.  What do you mean?

[Tyzack]

21 hours ago, Krakalakachkn said:

 

@Tyzack

He's supposed to be a new Wedge Antilles but obviously he's an idiot.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Nick Cage is legend

 

 

Wedge was a minor character...Po receives top-flight billing 

[Krakalakachkn]

1 hour ago, Tyzack said:

 

Wedge was a minor character...Po receives top-flight billing 

 

Wedge transcends the movies

[SinisterDeath]

9 hours ago, Krakalakachkn said:

 

You keep saying this.  What do you mean?

Anakin killed a bunch of Padawan.

I want Ben to be killed by a bunch of Padawan.

[Tiinker]

On 01/02/2018 at 8:45 AM, Krakalakachkn said:

@Tiinker

 

The rebel ships were shielded from the First Order's sensors, that is until Poe and Finn's plan led the only code slicer who could give the FO access to those codes directly onto Snoke's ship.  They should be executed for their incompetence at the very least, let alone their treason.
 

Rose suddenly showing up was bulls***.  Way to toss all believability out the window.  Also Finn should have died.

 

Agreed - unnecessary.

 

He went to confront him, not kill him.  The level of the dark side he found in Ben's mind caused a momentary gut reaction, much like the way you would grimace or pull away if you stuck your hand in a bag and encountered a bunch of creepy crawlies.

 

Luke acts like a baby in this movie.  It's really grating imo.  What grated even more was how everyone was praising Hamill's role as "the best of his career."  Really?  I can't see it.  I'd take Professor Arnold any day.

 

 

 

I'll concede that there may be more logic in the script than I originally gave credit for.  The gut reaction to draw your weapon to kill your sisters child still seems incredibly unbecoming of the world's saviour and dedicating 30-40 minutes of the film to Finn and Rose going to casino-island which serves no real purpose beyond screwing the good guys is just a very strange choice of writing.

 

What I DO want to see in the next film, if I get round to seeing it, is some explanation of what on earth the First Order even is. Do they have an agenda or a philosophy? What are their key bases? I'm stumped on how the whole of TFA ends in destroying some jumbo death star (that we're led to believe is supposed to be a crippling blow to the FO) leads to their being like a few hundred rebels left at the beginning of TLJ. 

 

I feel like in order to save this film series there really needs to be some sort of *purpose* beyond "this is an inherently good thing to do" and "this is an inherently bad thing to do".  In the previous films you had a notion of these philosophies which came from the concept of the Force. In these latest films it feels like the writers seem to have just decided that the Force and magic are literally the same thing. 

 

 

 

[Tyzack]

9 hours ago, Krakalakachkn said:

 

Wedge transcends the movies

 

How? Did I totally miss something? He's a wingman with, what, 10 lines a movie? Mostly being an in-battle hypeman for Luke?

 

I don't see how he's important. 

 

I thought that Po was being created as a higher level character (plot mover/key character) but asides from "is a really good pilot (who, btw, is totes down with mutany)" what does he bring to the table? I'd rather him be a Wedge-level bit character.

[Gentled Ben]

On 2/2/2018 at 5:19 AM, SinisterDeath said:

Anakin killed a bunch of Padawan.

I want Ben to be killed by a bunch of Padawan.

[dicetosser1]

On 1/31/2018 at 3:42 PM, Krakalakachkn said:

@Gentled Ben I thought Rogue One was the best Star Wars film since Phantom Menace.  I won't know which one I prefer until I see how RO ages.

 

 

 

 

1. Hyperspace as a Weapon
   1. I didn't have a real problem with Laura Dern in her role, the problem I had was with the use of hyperspace to destroy Snoke's ship.  Yes it was awesome.  But now every person must ask themselves, "if this was always an option, why in the everloving hell didn't someone do this to the death star or any other ship ever?"  If they want to debut it as "new tech" then again, they need to offer an explanation
   2. The new movies also disregard planetary gravity wells which bothers me.  Like how they jump to hyperspace while 50ft off the ground of that jedi planet. 

 

 

 

On 2/1/2018 at 7:33 PM, Krakalakachkn said:

 

So the problem is that with the new movies the people upstairs declared that all the books are no longer cannon, so while almost everything has been completely covered in the books, now that no longer matters.

 

 

 

Hyperspace:

 

They addressed this in the novels and all ships are equipped with a sensor that detects objects and will automatically yank a ship out of hyperspace.  Laura Dern would have had to disengage something wired into the basic programming of the ship in approx. 1 minute.  

 

But again, the problem is that the above explanation is no longer canon, so who knows.  Honestly I'm surprised Snoke's entire ship didn't go up since a giant ass ship ripped into it faster than the speed of light.  Your size of scale argument could be valid, but what about the smaller ships getting beat up by regular old star destroyers? What's their excuse? Btw, Mon Calamari cruisers would dwarf the transport ship used in TFA.

 

 

Krak hit the nail on the head but i will add this

 

 

if they could do this why didnt they just evacuate like 2 small ships and send THEM blasting thru rather then let what?? 20?? ships full of people die? They DO have Tacticians....HELL they had ACKBAR for a while!!

 

re Leia Poppins moment   ive read most of the books too and onmce i got past my initial OMG they KILLED her??!!!!  reaction....I hated it. i cant remember any jedi being able to do that

[Krakalakachkn]

On ‎2018‎년 ‎2‎월 ‎2‎일 at 11:51 PM, Tyzack said:

 

How? Did I totally miss something? He's a wingman with, what, 10 lines a movie? Mostly being an in-battle hypeman for Luke?

 

I thought that Po was being created as a higher level character (plot mover/key character) but asides from "is a really good pilot (who, btw, is totes down with mutany)" what does he bring to the table? I'd rather him be a Wedge-level bit character.

 

Wedge is all up in the books.  Like all up in them.  He is the man.

 

But yeah, in the movies he's really nothing.  You see him briefly in 4 and 6.  I mean, we could extrapolate that he's a badass because he's still alive, but they don't give you anything else.

[Krakalakachkn]

On ‎2018‎년 ‎2‎월 ‎2‎일 at 9:19 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Anakin killed a bunch of Padawan.

I want Ben to be killed by a bunch of Padawan.

aha!

[Krakalakachkn]

On ‎2018‎년 ‎2‎월 ‎2‎일 at 11:20 PM, Tiinker said:

What I DO want to see in the next film, if I get round to seeing it, is some explanation of what on earth the First Order even is. Do they have an agenda or a philosophy? What are their key bases? I'm stumped on how the whole of TFA ends in destroying some jumbo death star (that we're led to believe is supposed to be a crippling blow to the FO) leads to their being like a few hundred rebels left at the beginning of TLJ. 

 

I feel like in order to save this film series there really needs to be some sort of *purpose* beyond "this is an inherently good thing to do" and "this is an inherently bad thing to do".  In the previous films you had a notion of these philosophies which came from the concept of the Force. In these latest films it feels like the writers seem to have just decided that the Force and magic are literally the same thing. 

 

I certainly won't disagree on the casino world.

 

I agree with you concerning the FO - there's scant backstory or explanation and it's a little insulting tbh.  Instead of Rose and Finn's Excellent Adventure I would have preferred the film to delve into more of the existing political reality, namely what happened between RotJ and TFA.  Also, they could have explored other themes, like how the citizens of the Empire refused to accept the Rebellion, instead preferring the security and stability of the Empire in exchange for losing a few minor freedoms.

 

In my opinion one of the great tragedies is how Lucas mishandled the character of Anakin Skywalker (and also not casting a better actor).  This article is a good read and goes into most everything. 

"George Lucas Nearly Wrote a Perfect Prequel Trilogy. He Just Didn't Notice.

 

I honestly don't think the next movie is going to be good.  They're bringing back Abrams to cowrite and direct and while I think he can do a better job than Johnson, I just don't expect much in the way of progress.  TFA is basically a plot remake of A New Hope and TLJ was a rehash of elements from ESB with some unwelcome additions.  I can see why a thematic remake of ANH was used to open up a new chapter of the series, but in my opinion TLJ should have been a drastic departure from every other movie preceeding it.

[Krakalakachkn]

1 hour ago, dicetosser1 said:

if they could do this why didnt they just evacuate like 2 small ships and send THEM blasting thru rather then let what?? 20?? ships full of people die? They DO have Tacticians....HELL they had ACKBAR for a while!!

 

re Leia Poppins moment   ive read most of the books too and onmce i got past my initial OMG they KILLED her??!!!!  reaction....I hated it. i cant remember any jedi being able to do that

 

YUUUUP.

 

There was at least one time in one of the books where a jedi - Luke, Kyp, or Ganner come to mind - where they were jetisoned from their x wing and used the force to hold the atmosphere from their cockpit in a bubble around their body and went into a jedi trance, buying them several hours instead of a few minutes.  Or something like that.  Leia didn't have a flight suit on though, but I suppose she wasn't in space long enough to freeze since there was ostensibly atmosphere and heat still wrapped around her?  Ignoring that part, since she was in space all she had to do was pull on the ship with the force and instead of pulling it toward her she would just move toward it.

[SinisterDeath]

11 hours ago, Krakalakachkn said:

 

YUUUUP.

 

There was at least one time in one of the books where a jedi - Luke, Kyp, or Ganner come to mind - where they were jetisoned from their x wing and used the force to hold the atmosphere from their cockpit in a bubble around their body and went into a jedi trance, buying them several hours instead of a few minutes.  Or something like that.  Leia didn't have a flight suit on though, but I suppose she wasn't in space long enough to freeze since there was ostensibly atmosphere and heat still wrapped around her?  Ignoring that part, since she was in space all she had to do was pull on the ship with the force and instead of pulling it toward her she would just move toward it.

Or toot.

That would have pushed her toward the ship. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by SinisterDeath