The Horn of Valere

[Faroresdragn]

So is it ever confirmed anywhere (like in the companion or something) that Olver is Gaidal Cain reborn? Or is that just something that's obviously true that's just a wink-wink moment between the author and the reader?

 

Also, on the topic of reborn heroes, what WAS the horn of Valere? Like, was it a ter'angreal from the age of legends? Was it something that aes sedai actually created for some reason, even though there was no way in the AOL, or was it some ter'angreal that was created specifically for the dragons prophecies to be fulfilled, like the eye of the world, and Calandor? Or whas it some mystical object that operated outside of the OP, like dreamwalkers or mins viewings?

 

I'm guessing that it's the last option, because Birgitte always talks about how she's tied to the pattern and bound to the wheel and how the wheel chooses what heroes get added to the bunch and when they are reborn to be heroes again, and I can't see even the AOL aes sedai coming up with something THAT complex. Seems like it would take something like compulsion on the wheel of time itself to accomplish. So I'm guessing it's just some naturally occurring thing made by the pattern itself.

 

If THATS true, should there not be like a TON more heroes? Isn't there not supposed to be any beginnings to the wheel? So you're telling me there's only been a few hundred people worthy to be heroes of the horn since the beginning of endless time? When Noal just earned a place himself? They always mention that All legends fade away as the age that gave them birth comes again. So if Mat KNOWS who birgitte silverbow and gaidal Cain and all those other guys are, then they must be from this age, or maybe the AOL if they were awesome enough for their story to survive the breaking. So I'm guessing that eventually these "immortal" heros will eventually die off and be replaced by new ones? Or will those same spirits be reborn to fill the same roles in the next 3rd age? Like has hawkwing (the exact same guy reborn) taken over the world a bunch of times? I would think that would make sense within the story's lore, but birgitte mentions that she can remember her FIRST life. There's no way her memory could be THAT vast if she was born like 100 3rd ages ago.

 

Sorry for the long post. This has just been bothering me for some time now. Like usually they find some object that does a cool thing and they at least offhandedly describe what it is, like "f*ck it, this must be a ter'angreal" or "the viewings didn't use the one power. No one knew how they worked." or the occasional "even the AS in the AOL didn't understand how the portal stones worked", but the horn, the most important thing short of Calandor, we get no explaination on whatsoever.

[solarz]

1. Olver is NOT Gaidal Cain. This has been confirmed by Robert Jordan himself.

 

2. The Horn of Valere is an artifact dating from before the Age of Legends. It is, in fact, very likely to be tied to the Wheel itself and has always existed.

 

3. It is quite likely that Heroes become unbound to the Wheel just as new Heroes are bound. If a heroic life can bind a soul to the Wheel, then it stands to reason that a particularly villainous or selfish life could unbound a soul. It's also possible that Noal was a Hero all along, he just didn't know it.

[jack of shadows]

gadren grady is probably gaidal cain reborn.

[JamesBrown]

gadren grady is probably gaidal cain reborn.

 

How would that work? In The Shadow Rising, Birgitte said she knows her time to be reborn is coming soon because she can no longer find Cain in Tel'aran'rhiod. Then in The Fires of Heaven he's reborn, whereas Gadren Grady is already a grown adult with a wife and son.

[jack of shadows]

gadren grady is jur grady's son,not the other way round,post last battle he is about 5 years old.

[Faroresdragn]

Well, olver will always be gaidal in my head-cannon.

 

And is Grady's son so more likely to be gaidal than any other baby? Other than the fact that he's mentioned at the right moment?

[JamesBrown]

gadren grady is jur grady's son,not the other way round,post last battle he is about 5 years old.

 

Thanks. I got the father and son mixed up.

[rand4747]

at the last battle Gaidal Cain reborn would have been a baby. Birgitte would have been born right near the end of the last battle.

[jack of shadows]

jamesbrown post got me thinking,if gaidal cain has been reincarnated

about late summer 999NE(the fires of heaven),post last battle he would

be 1 year and 2 months old,so gadren grady is too old.

[Sabio]

The reason there is no way it could of been Olver as he was much to old.  

 

if being a hero was common the horn would be summoning fifty thousand people.  Being a hero is meant to be rare.  There are only a few people destined to lead important lives.  Even fewer live lives meant to be linked LTT/Ishy and Brigette/Gaidal for instance.  Even the heroes can lead normal lives, briggtte mentioned something about being a farmer or something once and being the most boring thing ever.  That's the reason why most the important people from Rand's age for the next LB will be different people.  Just because say Egwene did a heroic thing doesn't necessarly mean she is going to become or was a hero.  Just like the forsaken aren't destined to be forsaken every time.  Briggtte also only remembers some things from past lives since she wasn't spun back out like normal but forced back into the pattern,  also what's to say Noal/Jain wasn't a hero already.

[dexterryu]

Another thing is that it doesn't seem there were any channelers summoned by the horn. For the hundred-ish heroes only a few of them were named and none were described as able to channel. My bet is that it may just be the soul of someone who can channel already is bound to the wheel. I haven't re-read AMOL (yet) but from what I remember the horn, once blown by Olver was almost the "I win" button.

[Orderofolde]

Another thing is that it doesn't seem there were any channelers summoned by the horn. For the hundred-ish heroes only a few of them were named and none were described as able to channel. My bet is that it may just be the soul of someone who can channel already is bound to the wheel. I haven't re-read AMOL (yet) but from what I remember the horn, once blown by Olver was almost the "I win" button.

There was a vague reference to one being a channeler, can't remember the name, though.  Buad or Amerasu, or Blaes were all described as beautiful and queen-like and powerful women.  Amerasu wields a sword of the sun we know(could be like rand's power-wrought sword of flame), while Calian the Chooser represents the end of an age and destruction.  Unless their beauty was such that they could walk across the battlefield and drive men and beasts to stop fighting, they likely could use the power as most of them didn't have a weapon tied to their hero forms.  Pretty women riding horses you can find at a rodeo so I'm thinking it was more than beauty or their commanding nature and ability to gather people to them that makes them USEFUL heroes to the horn/pattern summoned at one point during battle at the sounding of the horn.  Maybe if we reread the battle at Falme we will have a hint?  I don't think we saw much of the heroes actually fighting apart from Noel and Birgitte, we just see them riding and talking to Mat catching up and only a handful of the hundred are even mentioned so its a good bet there are some channelers in there just vague references and inferences.

[solarz]

Another thing is that it doesn't seem there were any channelers summoned by the horn. For the hundred-ish heroes only a few of them were named and none were described as able to channel. My bet is that it may just be the soul of someone who can channel already is bound to the wheel. I haven't re-read AMOL (yet) but from what I remember the horn, once blown by Olver was almost the "I win" button.

 

Well, the Heroes do remember LTT, but it's hard to say if LTT could have been summoned by the Horn. Maybe LTT dwells in TAR in his off time, or maybe the Heroes just all remember LTT from the AOL, but the latter doesn't explain why they would recognize Rand.

[Sabio]

My guess is LTT and Ishy in between birth chills out like the other heroes. Since they haven't been reborn they probably have vast knowldege so they might see things differntly, then when they are reborn they forget and lead their life and when they die back to TAR.

[jack of shadows]

not only the heroes of the horn recognised rand,rand recognised each and every one

of them,robert jordan hinted(more than once)that rand/lews therin is a hero of the horn

when he is not doing his dragon duties.

[wotfan4472]

Yeah. The encounter with the Heroes at Falme not only indicates he was a hero reborn it also indicates he was their leader. He is the Creator's Champion, so he would be the commanding Hero.