[Advanced] Old West Mischief Mafia - Town Wins!

dicetosser1 · February 18, 2017

I had liked dice's posts wrt liz/mc but he also posted this: "meh thats fairly typical notbob really" and hindsight is 20/20. I know I shouldn't dis him for 1 post but isn't that what we were doing to liz/mc?? and sometimes it's only one little post that does it.

I still have dice as slightly scummy. I think he may be 3p

SO, these were my two thoughts on dice, in order. mainly over his notbob post because I think he said he is a very good notbob reader. iirc. I forgot that I changed my mind about him to make him 3p. cause I kind of think that the set up could be 11/4/1 I thought it 12/4 but re analyzing. I just don't remember who I had the other mafia as...oh yeah liz/mc but I am giving them some room for now....but still watching

nope i said the exact opposite.

Wildfire Sedai · February 19, 2017

Okay, so I did my best to reread itt but realized I was running out of time. decided to try and do a reads list but decided too late. I was going to go in order then realized my best bet was to go by the ones that were more important to me. Then I got stuck in circular reasoning myself. So I am only going to have a couple. Hopefully will get up early tomorrow to finish it off or most of it, anyways.

DPR - the damn dirty pirate (DreadPirateRoberts): null/slight townie:  I don't like his harsh mouth but I do like the points he makes wrt liz/mc and eldrick. However, this quote, "No no no - I'm setting up the mislynches. I do this by using logic everyone can see, but that won't work and only I will know it because I am teh scum." makes me cringe for two reasons: 1. because I know it is probably just a joke but it's almost as bad as asking, "who are our scum partners?" which he vehemently opposed. 2. He could be telling the truth. I am going with number 1 for right now. PAFO.

Doc Cassiday - Doc by day, salon gal by night (Cass):  Calamity Sooh (Sooh) Kronos McLintock (WolfbrotherKronos) NotBob Cassidy (鲍勃不是我的名字) Darthe Wade (Darthe) Wildfire Oakley (Wildfire Sedai): TOWN QUEENIE Hallia Cogburn (Hallia)

Eldrick the Kid (Eldrick4221): null/slight scummy: I know that I had him as townie but some things have changed. For instance it has been brought up that he's not as investigatively as he usually is and what people are calling circular reasoning. I had to look it up on google but don't think its the same as the fact that he has been using the same reasons/thoughts over and over. It seems like it should be but the example they gave was: The bible is inerrant as first logic set and whatever the bible says is true as the second logic set. So I don't see that as being using the same reasoning over and over as...OKAY....now that I've written it out...I guess its the same as using the same reasons/thoughts over and over.

Cuthroat Jesse (Cuth) Rootin Tootin Seph (seph) The amazing Tiink (Tiinker) Dice - Lone Stranger (dicetosser1) Wild Bill Spoot (Spoof)

Miss Kizzy Clov (MrsClov and Lizabeth): null: The reason I have them as null even though they have been the topic of discussion for 99% of the game is because they do have some posts that clarify their reasoning for post #309. "who do you think my scummates are?" I am on the edge when it comes to them, Mainly because it is a hydra. I have found most of liz posts to be null/slightly scummy and mc's to be null/slightly townie.

Crushlove the Bacon Bandit (The Crusher)

For now cause I have OT AND PT and I might not make it to DL, I am going to [v] dricky [/v]

COLORS ARE FOR ONES ALREADY KNOWN LIKE NOT BOB AND ME AND ONES I HAVE ALREADY DONE SO FAR BUT CAN BE CHANGED. THAT'S IF THE COLORS POST, SOMETIMES THEY DON'T IF THEY DON'T POST THEN IT WILL BE JUST BOLDED ONES.

1. DPR - the damn dirty pirate (DreadPirateRoberts)

2. Doc Cassiday - Doc by day, salon gal by night (Cass): NULL/SLIGHTLY TOWNIE:  I like that cass was all over the place in asking her questions. I think she asked questions of most of the people who posted, challenging them on their posts and reads.

3. Calamity Sooh (Sooh):

4. Kronos McLintock (WolfbrotherKronos): NULL/SLIGHT TOWNIE: CHANGED FROM NULL I like that he has come into the thread and started scum hunting.

5. NotBob Cassidy (鲍勃不是我的名字)

6. Darthe Wade (Darthe): NULL??

7. Wildfire Oakley (Wildfire Sedai): TOWN QUEENIE

8. Hallia Cogburn (Hallia): NULL??

9. Eldrick the Kid (Eldrick4221) WANT TO ADD: THAT his N1 beg for doc protection and its scenario pushed him closer to scum in my eyes.

10. Cuthroat Jesse (Cuth): NULL/SLIGHT TOWNIE: I like how he tried to mediate with liza: asking her to not talk about herself for 6 hours and to not insult people in this game. He also said, thank you, as well. He is one of the few who has been trying to solve this game. He gives explanations of what he is trying to say.

11. Rootin Tootin Seph (seph): NULL/SLIGHT TOWNIE: I like how he urged liza to get answers for the questions she was asking and to post her thoughts to those answers ITT, I also like the fact that when he noticed that he was wrong, he apologized.

12. The amazing Tiink (Tiinker): NULL??

13. Dice - Lone Stranger (dicetosser1): NULL/SLIGHT SCUMMY: I had liked dice's posts wrt liz/mc but he also posted this: "meh thats fairly typical notbob really" and hindsight is 20/20. I know I shouldn't dis him for 1 post but isn't that what we were doing to liz/mc?? and sometimes it's only one little post that does it.

14. Wild Bill Spoot (Spoof) NULL???

15. Miss Kizzy Clov (MrsClov and Lizabeth) NULL/SLIGHTLY SCUMMY: CHANGED FROM NULL: Too much against them. I can't find a scenario where they would be town except maybe if dricky were town too but dricky is looking scummier as the game goes on.

16. Crushlove the Bacon Bandit (The Crusher): NULL/MEDIUM TOWNIE : I like how he confronted liz/mc about post #309 (I know its the dreaded post) However, he could have been a little nicer. I also like how he confronted seph about seph's mistake until seph corrected it. I don't think scum would do that. I like the fact that he is upfront and gets to the point.

DISCLAIMER: these reads WILL CHANGE except mine: I AM TOWN and notbobs: for obvious reasons.

I know I have a lot of nulls but that's because all that was talked about was liz/mc, dice, and eldrick. With a little bit of darthe and notbob thrown in. Everybody had the same idea, even me to a certain extent. Though I can't really say that cause we had 2 major trains and a couple of small ones.



with NO explanation??? thats weird but here goes:

Wildfire Oakley (Wildfire Sedai)

Kronos McLintock (WolfbrotherKronos)

DPR - the damn dirty pirate (DreadPirateRoberts)

Darthe Wade (Darthe)

Doc Cassiday - Doc by day, salon gal by night (Cass)

Crushlove the Bacon Bandit (The Crusher)

Lady BFG Spoot (BFG)

Hallia Cogburn (Hallia)

Rootin Tootin Seph (seph)

The amazing Tiink (Tiinker)

Miss Kizzy Clov (MrsClov and Lizabeth)

Dice - Lone Stranger (dicetosser1)

Cuthroat Jesse (Cuth)

Can you explain why Cuth/Seph/Tiink dropped?

Cuth dropped because he claimed that dricky and liz/mc were both townies w/o question. He said he would guarantee it and dricky flipped scum and liz/mc I still suss. Then he hunted down tiink. Now I don't know if that was to distance from tiink or pushing a mislynch but I find it highly questionable.

Seph dropped because I forgot where I had him tbh. I thought I had him as slight scummy cause of his defense of liz/mc but I had forgotten that I gave liz/mc a botd... :huh:

tiink I think could be the last scummate...maybe. It's rolling around in my head. though I have a couple of others that I have as nulls and even towns that might go that way....just watching and waiting. He's a yolo read.

Wildfire Sedai · February 19, 2017

I had liked dice's posts wrt liz/mc but he also posted this: "meh thats fairly typical notbob really" and hindsight is 20/20. I know I shouldn't dis him for 1 post but isn't that what we were doing to liz/mc?? and sometimes it's only one little post that does it.

I still have dice as slightly scummy. I think he may be 3p

SO, these were my two thoughts on dice, in order. mainly over his notbob post because I think he said he is a very good notbob reader. iirc. I forgot that I changed my mind about him to make him 3p. cause I kind of think that the set up could be 11/4/1 I thought it 12/4 but re analyzing. I just don't remember who I had the other mafia as...oh yeah liz/mc but I am giving them some room for now....but still watching

nope i said the exact opposite.

That's why I said "I think" and "iirc" I do apologize....I think I have to do my reads over....at least middle ones down....maybe some top ones as well...... :huh:

dicetosser1 · February 19, 2017

fair enuff wifi

BFG · February 19, 2017

I'm out for now, but should be able to start reading through tomorrow evening :)

BFG · February 19, 2017

WiFi, how does Cuth starting the train on NB, Seph pushing/voting for both Eldrick and NB Day 1 and Tiinker voting Eldrick preclaim Day 2 factor into those reads?

BFG · February 19, 2017

Dice, can I get reads from you?

BFG · February 19, 2017

^or point me to them :)

The Crusher · February 19, 2017

Lol the hotel receptionist thinks I'm the sort of person that eats pizza with a knife and fork
Ok Im done. BFG is fine with me.
Hahawas very disappointing after all that :( thick crust, mozzarella instead of cheddar and who in their right minds adds olives to a pepperoni pizza?

I'm with you sister. Pepperoni pizza is the Gold standard. Adding anything detracts from it. If you want to get creative, go ahead, just leave the pepperoni pizza out of it. Bunch heathins I tell you.

Lizabeth · February 19, 2017

He might be a little lavish at doing so, but he's put a significant amount of work into legitimate scum hunting. He's not relying on tone and meta - he is instead questioning motives and pretty solidly sticks to them. It screams town to me.
Where did you see scumhunting? I know I might be biased, but what I've seen is tunneling. Where have you seen him actually trying to explore someone else's alignment? And I'm starting to think that I might have a different definition for "scumhunting" than a lot of you people do...
You are like a lady magician. Turn anything someone says into whatever you want it to be . You ask him why he thinks DPR is town, he answers scum hunting , you response is us people don't be knowing scum hunting like Lizabeth be knowing scum hunting. Holy hell dear are you by any chance Kin to integrity28 also known as John McClane here? He retired from mafia. I missed him deeply. I hope you never leave me.
No, my response is asking you to explain what you mean by scumhunting.It's easy to attach labels to things without definitions.Here's my definition of scumhunting:1) read the thread (that's a bit of a shout out to MrClov :P)2) take not of things that you see in the thread and think about different possibiilties for what that might mean3) ask questions about what you saw. Ask people to explain their statements and actions.4) if you dont' get a satisfactory resolution, follow up5) if you get a satisfactory resolution, move on to another issue to follow up6) collaaborate with other people to explore what they might be seeing that you're not seeing(note that you can be doing 1 through 5 simultaneously)6) don't rinse, but repeat.That's the simple answer.Okay, now your turn. What is scumhunting to you?And can I just explain that I know what you're doing? You keep criticizing the quality of my posts but you rarely respond to the content. And the effect that I assume you're hoping for (if i'm right about your alignment, which I'm increasingly thinking that I am) is taht people will disregard what I say because you keep saying it's nonsense or that I'm trying to tell other people what to think.And yet you responded to a post where I asked you very specific questions by just referencing the fluff part and calling me a poopy head. I wasn't offended, but it's an example of the pattern you've shown all game. Adn the same one that Darthe has shown all game. And that DPR was showing up until D2 when he started putting more effort into his work.

"Scumhunting to me" by Dr Crushlove

When I partake in ten mafia goodness and teh moderator gives me a pm in my inbox that says, Crushlove you is town, you win when all dem threats to the town be eliminated. I say, " to the fat cave" , " it's time to scum hunt" I hear the original theme to Batman with Adam West in my head. Then I snack. I get in thread and joke with my friends. I love my mafia friends. I hope one day you and Crushlove can be mafia friends. Then after I joke I snack. I read each post and get a rough idea of the players direction. I call this my direction list. Then I snack. I find most townies play linear in an effort to find scum. Avoid terribly complicated scenarios that add things to the threads to Muttle things. Like " what if statements" and " game mechanic talk beyond reasonable" Then I put pressure on them and go, " hey you, that's crap" if they defend well I typically give benefit. If the react by omgussing me or start a circular argument I keep on them. Sometimes I even make post to see how they react. Then I snack. After that I look at the players I feel good about and I say , " hey friend what are your reads " my friends are awesome. Some use colors, some make list and some give one word answers. I like direct one word answers. People that write long winded diatribes about how everyone else should see things I just thank them but don't read it. Shhh,, don't tell dem. K? I have exceptions though. Like the Pirate I love his long takes of mafia insanity and slanted insight because after I finish I choose key phrases. Dude can write. What can I say?

Ok. You are a little bit of a bullish player. You ask questions and if you don't like the answer you just discredit it and spin an alternative. I find bullish players very fun to play with. But Crushlove is not a fighter, I'm a lover and a snacker. This is the first time we ever played together. Hope not the last, but, you are scum this game. I see no other explanation for the way you reacted to pressure. Pretty sure most if not all of your reads are people that pressured you. Early anyhow. Have not read last few pages. To me thats scummy. I think Tinker might be first person you called out who did not pressure you first. If you are not scum then next time we play I promise to read you better. But for now. In the words of sweet sweet Boo Boo. Me likey my vote.

Okay, finally read this in full. And in the spirit of positive play I will respond to it more in full than I did last night. And in part because I'm starting to see how you think a little bit more in my backread and see the potential for this war between us to be about differences in playing styles/thinking styles rather than you just throwing lots of generalized shade.

In the first part, I see that you focus on what you observe and how people react to you to tell you how to read them. But I'm wondering if you take into consideration how you're reacting to them and how that might influence the way that they read you and therefore react to you. I'm getting the sense that you genuinely do not understand what my problem has been with the way that you comment on posts, mine and MrsClov's in particular. I tend to look side-eyed at people who tend to comment more than directly engage with people - town reads or scum reads - in the thread. To me that reads as standing in the corner and poking a stick but trying to stay out of the way of direct examination directed towards them. Unfortunately I have no meta on you, so I have to try to figure out without knowing your normal style of town play whether I think that's genuine or not based only on your responses in the thread.

Secondly, you stated that you think most mafia players play the game linearly. I can assure you, if you haven't figured it out already, that I do not. Neither do most of the people from my home site (a lot of us are Ne doms there - you may or may not know what that means, but in personalitycultspeak it means we do the opposite of thinking linearly). And I'm finding it really difficult to deal with the linear thinking that seems to dominate this game, because my usual style of play is to try to look at things from as many angles as possible and to follow threads until I feel like I've reached the end of them and then reroute. It's extremely frusrtrating to me when other people maintain a narrow focus on things or keep harping on things that I believe should be resolved or avoid answering questions that I feel could resolve issues and allow me to move on. Obviously our playstlyles don't mesh together that well. I'm still learning how to play well with the more linear thinkers on my own site, but maybe I'll gain some insight here as well.

And when I write my "longwinded diatribes", it's usually out of frustration that people aren't looking at things that seem obvious to me. Like it's a "wtf, why am I having to explain this 50 different ways, how are you not understanding the words that are coming out of my mouth". I realize that from your perspective what you see is obvious and I'm the one not getting it, but understand that from my perspective you're the one who is missing the obvious. And the truth may be somewhere in between.

I could say more, but I better leave this long-winded diatribe alone and get back to reading.

dicetosser1 · February 19, 2017

Dice, can I get reads from you?

kronos

dpr scumhunter

darthe has been playing as troll darthe which i think tends to be towndarthe in my head

wifi is being wifi

seph very towny early some interactioons have me raiseing my eyebrows a little

crusher have liked what he has had to say just not quite confident enuff to put him higher

kizzy theres a large amount of tinfoil kinda based on the idea that scum wouldnt do what they did. i dont trust that idea

cuth i go back and forth on him. his unvote asking seph then being so deadset on who is town.

tinker have no real remembrance of tiink so poe

bfg you are making me nervous.

Wildfire Sedai · February 19, 2017

Wifi, how does Cuth starting the train on NB, Seph pushing/voting for both Eldrick and NB Day 1 and Tiinker voting Eldrick preclaim Day 2 factor into those reads?

They didn't until now. as you posted this so am I rearranging my reads. I am not good at wagonomics. :blush:

Wildfire Oakley (Wildfire Sedai)

Kronos McLintock (WolfbrotherKronos)

DPR - the damn dirty pirate (DreadPirateRoberts)

Darthe Wade (Darthe)

Crushlove the Bacon Bandit (The Crusher)

Rootin Tootin Seph (seph)

Cuthroat Jesse (Cuth)

The amazing Tiink (Tiinker)

Dice - Lone Stranger (dicetosser1)

Miss Kizzy Clov (MrsClov and Lizabeth)

Hallia Cogburn (Hallia)

Lady BFG Spoot (BFG) YOLO POSSIBLE 3 PLAYER

Doc Cassiday - Doc by day, salon gal by night (Cass) YOLO

Wildfire Sedai · February 19, 2017

EBWOP:

black is supposed to be pink salmon

Wildfire Sedai · February 19, 2017

on bfg

Lizabeth · February 19, 2017

Okay, still way back on page 117 (not even going to try to read all of it).

But even with the most massive bussing scheme, I can't imaginae a scum team so brazen that scum!Eldrick would actively push so hard to kill teammate!Darthe.

Didn't realize D2 was as many pages as it was...

Lizabeth · February 19, 2017

Ugh... but tink is on this wagon#feelsbadman

I'm torn right now, to be honest.

I think it's safe to say that Eldrick isn't team mates with Darthe, Tink, Crusher, DPR, Dice, Kronos, or you at this moment. (Not saying that all of these are scum, just saying who he can't be teamed with). I'm pretty sure he can't be teamed with NB. But that doesn't mean that there's not another scum faction.

I need BFG :(

Odd post. Im probably reading it wrong. Means exactly what?

What do you mean what does it mean?

I have no idea what it means. I guess I should have checked if it was pre or post Eldrick flip. Just confusing.

At the time I was of the opinion that Eldrick couldn't be teamed with the people that I listed because of the way that they dealt with each other in the thread. It was before Eldrick's flip and after Kronos' claim that I had just woken up to. At the time I was really intent on lynching Darthe and couldn't reconcile the idea of Darthe and Eldrick being partners nor Eldrick being partners with NB.

And I said I needed BFG half facetiously because I understand the way she thinks and I wanted her insight on it. MrsClov wasn't around at the time.

Lizabeth · February 19, 2017

And Crusher, I'm going to try to avoid going in circles with you this round, and you'll get to my long-winded explanation about the problems I have with how you label things, which might be a you thing that I just don't relate to, but basically it seems like you're saying that if someone suspects you you're not allowed to suspect or question them?

No not all. It just seemed like that was the majority of what you were doing. People label that as omgussing. Im sorta past that at this point. Im starting to latch on a little bit to the way you do things. J

ust think the Hydra thing is not good for the game. Last game I play with one. Getting a read on two people is much harder than getting a read on one. Especially two players like yourself and Mrs Clove. We dont allow it at JN. Its not like each of you haven' t contributed enough to play alone.

Fair enough. We dont allow them at my site either unless it's a buddy game. Neither of us expected to post as much as we have because we're both supposed to be busy right now (I'm not even supposed to be here this weekend, but my plans got changed). I am going to try to reign in my posting though and maybe we'll just take turns posting in the thread instead of barraging y'all all at once

Or maybe I'll do Cass' Multiquote thing...except I hate the multiquote function here :(

Songstress · February 19, 2017

ALL ACTIONS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED.

INCOMING PHASE CHANGE...

Songstress · February 19, 2017

(I knowwww, 2 hours early! :ohmy: )

Lizabeth · February 19, 2017

@ . @ Anyone got some catch up notes?

I had been neglecting to take my iron pills and my anemia caught up with me.

Page 1 shows me I was right on my gut with regards to Eldrick, at least.

You too?

I'm not anemic, but I get low iron. the pills hurt my stomach though.

(sorry, no more spam posts, I promise!)

(maybe)

(i suck at keeping no spamming promises)

(sorry :( )

Songstress · February 19, 2017

At first the sheriff thought he had overslept. No, he realized, there was a bare faint light in the room, but only now did he hear a rooster crowing in the distance. There was nothing else but blessed silence.

He dressed in the dimness of his room, and decided to break his fast at the saloon instead of Sarah's boarding house. The boarding house was cleaner, but the saloon might give him a feel for what mischief may have transpired overnight, since no townsfolk had troubled his rest.

The town was just beginning to stir around him. The sheriff pushed his way through the doors of the saloon to see a handful of bleary-eyed drinkers and gamblers staggering away from their tables to pay their tab or to stumble up the stairs for a few winks in a borrowed bed. There were a few bright eyed fellows sitting in a cluster near the door, tucking into hearty platters of ham and biscuits with gravy. And was that a pirate? How very strange. The bartender was wearily mopping down the surface of the polished mahogany bar while a serving girl cleared empty glasses from the tables.

"Morning, Sam," the sheriff said as he tipped his hat to the bartender. "What's the word?"

"Quiet night," the bartender said. "Two bar fights, few broken bottles and a chair busted. One fellow sent to the drunk tank, another went home with a broken nose. What'll you have?"

"Coffee, then," the sheriff requested. "And can you have Patsy fry me up some steak and eggs? It's like to be a long day."

==========

IT IS NOW DAY 3.

Songstress · February 19, 2017

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

Not Voting: DPR, Cass, Kronos, Darthe, WiFi, Hallia, Cuth, Seph, Tiinker, Dice, BFG, Miss Kizzy Clov, Crusher

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 3 is Tuesday, 2/21/17 at 9:00 AM MST

Wildfire Sedai · February 19, 2017

oh....they didn't make a kill?????? That's weird and night done early too....so it was on purpose.....weird......

Wildfire Sedai · February 19, 2017

well now I gotta go to bed. see you all in the morning, since no ones here.....

Kaylee · February 19, 2017

Nice scene as always sis

[Advanced] Old West Mischief Mafia - Town Wins!

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