Elayne's Arc

[James71]

 

Elayne doesn't not have to listen to Egwene in matters relating to running and governing Andor (and now Cairhien). She only must follow Egwene in matters to relate to her role as Aes Sedai. I don't have the exact quotes but that was my understanding from reading Elayne's POV.

 

For example, the treaty with Perrin and the Two Rivers - The is solely an Andoran policy and Egwene would have no say in the matter. The use of Kin for Travel in Andor - I believe this one would likely fall under White Tower jurisdiction and she will probably have to clear this with Egwene in the end. But even this would have different components. Elayne's plan was to use the Traveling to bypass the land (and custom fees) that she had to cede to the Sea Folk. Egwene should have no say in this policy but she could just flat deny the use of the Kin to Elayne.

 

On paper a King or Queen maybe rule in their respective lands.

But the reputation of the WT is that it pulls the strings of Kings and Queens everywhere.

 

Elayne being both Queen of Andor and an Aes Sedai puts her strings even more surely in the sights of the WT.

The AS will generally expect Elayne to rule in such as way as to never be in conflict with the WT.

 

Minor issues, that are more administrative in nature, are not likely to be a source fo conflict to put Elayne's loyalties at risk.

 

However a big issue is Rand and the coming conflict over breaking the seals.

That has huge potential to put Elayne between Egwene and Rand.

Elayne is Rand's woman and the mother of his children. Rand is bonded to Elayne, but she cannot influence him with that bond.

 

So if Rand has a plan and it conflicts with the WT, which way will Elayne go with her armies?

Obey her Amyrlin? or follow the Dragon Reborn to the Last Battle?

 

It will likely be a dramatic conflict in the final book. But we all know that in the end Rand will get his way.

All of the armies, including Elayne's, will be put under the leadership of Mat and even Egwene will be forced to get on board with Rand's plan.

Rand will get enough females to use Saidar, to make the new seals, and it will likely be a combination of Aes Seadi, Wise Ones, Kin and Sea Folk.

 

Just my opinion.

[maradon]

I do not think that the Amyrlin has the power to order Aes Sedai, only the Hall would be able to do such a thing. If the Amyrlin orders an Aes Sedai to do something then they can turn around and say no, the idea being that the Amyrlin should not be asking such contraversial things and should have the backing of the Hall.

 

I am looking to the Fields of Merrilor episode though. Gawyn said it nicely with 'too many people with too many conflicting loyalties in too small an area for something not to kick off' -or something along those lines.

[Auld Manriva]

Mark Grayson ~

Elayne's plan was to use the Traveling to bypass the land (and custom fees) that she had to cede to the Sea Folk. Egwene should have no say in this policy but she could just flat deny the use of the Kin to Elayne.

 

Very minor points: Elayne ceded nothing to the Sea Folk that had to do with ANDOR paying customs to Sea Folk. What she did, was allow Sea Folk on that small portion of river front to do business ON that land with no customs to Andor. Look at it as Monaco to France or the old Brit deal with China over Hong Kong. So there's no need to avoid that property. Her deal with the Kin is mainly for strategic/tactical speed of movement.

Elayne cannot deny the deal with the Kin. That would be an untruth (even if she's not, so far, taken the oaths). All she needs do is be straight up about it. There is no conflict of interest inherent in that bargain unless it's perceived as "setting up a competing WT", which, if explained properly, it shouldn't be.

 

Mysty.. lol .. We'll likely not agree on this just as we don't over our views on the SeanPans. Elayne is doing for ANDOR not herself. And she's thinking and planning ahead, as any regent Should be doing. "Spoiled"? Yeah, in your view probably, I just see her as a product of her upbringing and training. Just as "the braid puller" and "the Inn Keepers daughter" are.. AND that "sawed off runt of a slave holder" Un-fortuona is.

[blazetheearth]

I do not think that the Amyrlin has the power to order Aes Sedai, only the Hall would be able to do such a thing. If the Amyrlin orders an Aes Sedai to do something then they can turn around and say no, the idea being that the Amyrlin should not be asking such contraversial things and should have the backing of the Hall.

 

I am looking to the Fields of Merrilor episode though. Gawyn said it nicely with 'too many people with too many conflicting loyalties in too small an area for something not to kick off' -or something along those lines.

 

The Amrylin doesn't have the power to order Aes Sedai???????

 

Are we reading the same books? Elaida (as Amrylin) stripped and Aes Sedai of her rank and reduced her to Accepted. Granted she didn't have the authority to do that exactly, but that didn't keep every other Sister in the Tower from treating her like Accepted. The Amrylin rules by decree and proclamation, the Hall can balk her in some cases.

 

A better example comes from TDR when Suian Sanche as Amrylin sent a dozen Sisters and 1000 of the Tower Gaurd to hunt Mazrim Taim after his escape. That's ordering not just one AS but 12 of them. There was nothing put before the Hall in regards to this disposition of AS, Suian issued the decree through Leane (Keeper).

 

As far as conflicting loyalties at FoM, I think that there will be a convenient plot device (in the form of Rand's ta'veren-ness) that will see no blood gets shed on FoM.

 

 

Edit: Sorry, on reread I realized this might comes across as rude, but it was not meant to be rude at all. No offense intended.

[maradon]

But surely that backs up what I said, Elaida didnt have the power to strip an Aes Sedai's title. Egwene comes in and says that the Hall should have perhaps removed her for that alone. When Siuan sent the sisters to capture Mazrim Taim that was a general interest of the WT and in particular the Red Ajah, so she has a whole ajah to pick sisters from that are amenable to her wish. However If she asked for a particular AS to bond a warder for instance, a green may be amenable to doing as she wished but a red would tell her to hop it. That's a bit of a personal example though.

 

Perhaps if I refrased it as I see the Amyrlin as a figurehead for the WT, whereas I see the Hall as the law of the tower. The Amyrlin is not an absolute authority for Aes Sedai but the Hall is.

[RedRaider]

 

Elayne doesn't not have to listen to Egwene in matters relating to running and governing Andor (and now Cairhien). She only must follow Egwene in matters to relate to her role as Aes Sedai. I don't have the exact quotes but that was my understanding from reading Elayne's POV.

 

For example, the treaty with Perrin and the Two Rivers - The is solely an Andoran policy and Egwene would have no say in the matter. The use of Kin for Travel in Andor - I believe this one would likely fall under White Tower jurisdiction and she will probably have to clear this with Egwene in the end. But even this would have different components. Elayne's plan was to use the Traveling to bypass the land (and custom fees) that she had to cede to the Sea Folk. Egwene should have no say in this policy but she could just flat deny the use of the Kin to Elayne.

 

On paper a King or Queen maybe rule in their respective lands.

But the reputation of the WT is that it pulls the strings of Kings and Queens everywhere.

 

Elayne being both Queen of Andor and an Aes Sedai puts her strings even more surely in the sights of the WT.

The AS will generally expect Elayne to rule in such as way as to never be in conflict with the WT.

 

Minor issues, that are more administrative in nature, are not likely to be a source fo conflict to put Elayne's loyalties at risk.

 

However a big issue is Rand and the coming conflict over breaking the seals.

That has huge potential to put Elayne between Egwene and Rand.

Elayne is Rand's woman and the mother of his children. Rand is bonded to Elayne, but she cannot influence him with that bond.

 

So if Rand has a plan and it conflicts with the WT, which way will Elayne go with her armies?

Obey her Amyrlin? or follow the Dragon Reborn to the Last Battle?

 

It will likely be a dramatic conflict in the final book. But we all know that in the end Rand will get his way.

All of the armies, including Elayne's, will be put under the leadership of Mat and even Egwene will be forced to get on board with Rand's plan.

Rand will get enough females to use Saidar, to make the new seals, and it will likely be a combination of Aes Seadi, Wise Ones, Kin and Sea Folk.

 

Just my opinion.

 

I'm wondering if ELayne will have an army to lend. With shadowspan pouring into town from the inside and we already see the smoke from the city burning, I'd say the majority of Elayne's army will die and possibly lose the city. I think its too big a cooincidence that all the armies are camped outside Camelyn. Some of those are bound to be darkfriends. The timing just doesnt work it they arent. It does no good to spend the resources to take the city only to lose it just a quickly to the multiple armies camped just outside the walls. I'm thinking Elayne will narrowly escape and the realm will be no more, at least for a while.

[blazetheearth]

But surely that backs up what I said, Elaida didnt have the power to strip an Aes Sedai's title. Egwene comes in and says that the Hall should have perhaps removed her for that alone. When Siuan sent the sisters to capture Mazrim Taim that was a general interest of the WT and in particular the Red Ajah, so she has a whole ajah to pick sisters from that are amenable to her wish. However If she asked for a particular AS to bond a warder for instance, a green may be amenable to doing as she wished but a red would tell her to hop it. That's a bit of a personal example though.

 

Perhaps if I refrased it as I see the Amyrlin as a figurehead for the WT, whereas I see the Hall as the law of the tower. The Amyrlin is not an absolute authority for Aes Sedai but the Hall is.

 

According to Egwene's PoV in ACoS there is only one law that restrict an Amrylin's power. She may not knowingly place herself in danger. It was quoted to her by Romanda and Lelaine when Eggy suggested going to Rand herself.

 

And now let us hear from the BWB:

 

The Amrylin Seat rules over the Hall from a chair of the same name and is elected for life by the Hall of the Tower. She is the supreme head of the Tower, and is a member of all Ajahs, denoted by all seven colors upon her stole, regardless of the Ajah she was raised from. At the same time, she is considered to be of no Ajah, favoring none above another. Considered equal, if not slightly superior, to any king or queen, theoretically at least she has absolute power over all the Aes Sedai. In actuality, according to sources close to the Tower, the Amyrlin must usually engage in fairly sophisticated political give and take to keep her reign strong

 

Egwene, as Amyrlin Seat, has almost absolute power over the other AS, "usually" she would have to work through the Hall, but just like Egwene raising Nyn and Elayne the Amyrlin rules by decree. Elaida should have put Sherimin's punishment to the Hall, politically, instead of decreeing her to be Accepted. And Silviana tell Egwene that if the woman had not simply taken it , Eliada couldn't have gotten away with it.

[Ataxia]

We know what would happen if Eg forced Elayne to choose between Rand and the WT. She would choose Rand just as Nynaeve would choose Lan. Shes just hoping Elayne would side with her. On that same token, If Egwene did something that would put Andor in harms way, Elayne would choose Andor over the WT. She is Aes Sedai but the books have made it clear that Andor is her first priority.

[Val Mickey]

I wonder what the Hall would make of Elayne's deal with the Kin. People would just flock to Caemlyn. Free Healing from a non-Aes Sedai?

The Yellow Ajah can just hand in their resignations, or admit that they're just waaaaaay behind the Kin.

[RedRaider]

But surely that backs up what I said, Elaida didnt have the power to strip an Aes Sedai's title. Egwene comes in and says that the Hall should have perhaps removed her for that alone. When Siuan sent the sisters to capture Mazrim Taim that was a general interest of the WT and in particular the Red Ajah, so she has a whole ajah to pick sisters from that are amenable to her wish. However If she asked for a particular AS to bond a warder for instance, a green may be amenable to doing as she wished but a red would tell her to hop it. That's a bit of a personal example though.

 

Perhaps if I refrased it as I see the Amyrlin as a figurehead for the WT, whereas I see the Hall as the law of the tower. The Amyrlin is not an absolute authority for Aes Sedai but the Hall is.

 

What was the deal that was cut? The Amyrlin deals with kings and queens and the hall controls the army or the other way around. Either way, the Amyrlin is not a figurehead. Even when Eladia broke tower law half the sisters went along with it. It seems that the sisters really have no idea who has the mojo.

 

EDIT: But I think one major point is Rand is moving to the last battle and the Aes Sedai are still playing the same games they always have. Egwene gathering support against Rand when she hasn't even heard the how or why a thing needs to be done. I am amazad at how quickly she became the typical Aes Sedai and feels the only way a thing can be done is with her guidance. Not one sister is present along the blight where we know from the first book that raids and battles are constantly fought. Those armies are fighting against impossible odds with no help from the tower. So far, I'd say that the WT is a major hinderance to any progress Rand attempts to make.

 

Elayne being Elayne and attempting to secure double thrones instead of preparing and supporting Rand. There are more important events unfolding at the moment than whats for dinner in the tower and what flag flies over the Two Rivers.

[moratcorlm]

Egwene gathering support against Rand when she hasn't even heard the how or why a thing needs to be done.

This might be the first time I've defended Egwene, but Rand gave his reasons: "mumble mumble clear away the rubble mumble".

[Mr Ares]

 

Because miss 'I'm so smart and powerful and all should bow to me now' always thinks she knows best, always is convinced she's better and stronger than others and always acts like a spoiled brat that wants her way (ever since she arrived in Andor to take the throne, I actually liked her better as Accepted). It's the same thing over and over again: arrogance. Nevermind how many lives and souls she risks, so long as she gets her way.

 

Sorry, but that's misreading how her character is written. She's doing what she sees as her duty and getting precious little enjoyment out of it.

 

She's a major character in the battle for all of existence. Everything she does or does not do risks lives and souls. The decisions she makes, those she defers, all kill people at this point.

I disagree. The battle for existence has begun and she still plays games to secure her position as queen.

That would be because she has to. If she is secure in her position, she marches to the Last Battle with armies at her back. If she isn't, she marches alone. Which is more useful? Of course, she does have plans for beyond TG, about the future of the nations she rules, but I see that as a good thing, provided it doesn't detract from preparations for TG, and as far as I can see they don't.

I do have a question though. Since she's now full Aes Sedai do Egwane rule Andor? Elayne has to bow to Egwane, so even though shes the queen she can be over ruled.

I agree with what others have said on this issue: while Egwene might be superior to Elayne, that is a matter of AS hierarchy and has no bearing on matters outside of it such as rule in Andor, and whatever supreme authority she has in theory will be tempered in practice, by the Hall, Elayne herself, and any ruler who doesn't much like the idea of the WT trying so overtly to take charge.

 

I wonder what the Hall would make of Elayne's deal with the Kin. People would just flock to Caemlyn. Free Healing from a non-Aes Sedai?

The Yellow Ajah can just hand in their resignations, or admit that they're just waaaaaay behind the Kin.

Well, in a lot of cases, there would just be no point in going to Caemlyn - even for a lot of Andorans it would be too far to be considered practical. So there is still a need for the Yellows, although perhaps this move will shame them into doing more.

 

 

Egwene gathering support against Rand when she hasn't even heard the how or why a thing needs to be done.

She asked, Rand refused to present his reasons. Egwene has good reason to think Rand might be jumping the gun a little with his plan, so is quite right to oppose him.

 

Elayne being Elayne and attempting to secure double thrones instead of preparing and supporting Rand.

You think she can't support Rand by showing up at TG with the armies of Andor (including the TR), Cairhien, Ghealdan, Mayene and the Whitecloaks at her back?

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

Quote

Elayne being Elayne and attempting to secure double thrones instead of preparing and supporting Rand.

You think she can't support Rand by showing up at TG with the armies of Andor (including the TR), Cairhien, Ghealdan, Mayene and the Whitecloaks at her back?

 

Elayne wont have TR, ghealdan, Mayene or the Whitecloaks. If i remember rightly Perrin arrives before Elayne and camps on Rands side of the field. Plus Elayne gave the Two rivers to Rand so the TR army is essentially his with control given totally to Perrin.

 

So Elayne turns up with Cairhien and Andoran Armies. Only to have her City Sacked (Caemlyn) because she came at Egwenes beck and call.

 

Rand didn't ask her to come or to bring her armies, Rand didn't ask ANYONE to bring their armies, and has expressed (to the borderlanders) at least a desire that they not move their armies.

[moratcorlm]

So Elayne turns up with Cairhien and Andoran Armies. Only to have her City Sacked (Caemlyn) because she came at Egwenes beck and call.

Wait, was there some way Caemlyn was not going to be attacked?

[David Selig]

The Borderlanders armies came with Rand to Merrilor, in the Epilogue he was sleeping in their camp there.

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

So Elayne turns up with Cairhien and Andoran Armies. Only to have her City Sacked (Caemlyn) because she came at Egwenes beck and call.

Wait, was there some way Caemlyn was not going to be attacked?

 

Well if her armies were still in the city, then yes it's likely that the attack could be preempted possibly. especially if she bothered to actually double check all the things she felt were secure. at least more likely then it is now with her away from the city.

[moratcorlm]

How large a garrison do you think is ordinarily "in the city"?

[anotherfingolfin]

How large a garrison do you think is ordinarily "in the city"?

I think more than just the size, which however small, would almost certainly be bigger than what it is during the FoM, it is the response times that matter. Every minute unchecked greatly increases the havoc and overall tactical advantage that the trollocs gain.

[Mr Ares]

Quote

Elayne being Elayne and attempting to secure double thrones instead of preparing and supporting Rand.

You think she can't support Rand by showing up at TG with the armies of Andor (including the TR), Cairhien, Ghealdan, Mayene and the Whitecloaks at her back?

 

Elayne wont have TR, ghealdan, Mayene or the Whitecloaks. If i remember rightly Perrin arrives before Elayne and camps on Rands side of the field. Plus Elayne gave the Two rivers to Rand so the TR army is essentially his with control given totally to Perrin.

I said TG, not the FoM. Elayne made Rand High Lord of the TR, with Perrin as his Steward, but it is still a part of her country. So TR is, ultimately, Elayne's. If Elayne calls her banners, she calls Andor and Cairhien, including the TR, and thus Perrin calls Ghealdan, and Mayene is part of their alliance, and the Whitecloaks are with them for the time being. "Perrin, as your ally and subject lord, will agree to marshall troops in your defense. He will also call upon his sworn monarchs to your allegiance." "And you would be at our head". Both quotes from ToM 47, from Faile to Elayne. Mayene and the Whitecloaks are a bit dubious, as neither agreed to join that alliance in that chapter, but the rest are all there, at her back, should she call on them. Which she is likely to do come TG.

 

So Elayne turns up with Cairhien and Andoran Armies. Only to have her City Sacked (Caemlyn) because she came at Egwenes beck and call.

Wait, was there some way Caemlyn was not going to be attacked?

Perhaps the Shadow approves of Rand's plan, and anyone that agrees with it is thus helping the Shadow, so they won't attack their inadvertant allies. Damn you, Elayne, your desire to oppose Rand's poorly explained plan that he refused to justify and that risks unleashing Shai'tan has led to many Andorans dying! Next time, maybe you'll just go along with all your boyfriend's crackpot shemes.

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

Perhaps the Shadow approves of Rand's plan, and anyone that agrees with it is thus helping the Shadow, so they won't attack their inadvertant allies. Damn you, Elayne, your desire to oppose Rand's poorly explained plan that he refused to justify and that risks unleashing Shai'tan has led to many Andorans dying! Next time, maybe you'll just go along with all your boyfriend's crackpot shemes.

 

I dont doubt the fact that Egwene and co have the right to oppose the plan, and if Elayne wants to oppose as well so be it. BUT what Egwene didn't need to do is bring all the armies into it. essentially all egwene has done is weaken the lands defenses and allowed the shadow to gain ground. It was already shown the first time in LTT's timeline that when the shadow gains ground it's difficult to take it back.

 

if egwene wanted to have a meeting, fine she could have called the leaders in with a small honor guard and people to travel back and forwards pending a potential attack. She still would have had the power, the meeting would have likely been more secure with less people to protect.

 

Elayne could have brought a small contingent from both her realms, and had plenty of kin to travel with. instead she travels with a large party slowing her movements and potential response time, simply because egwene said to.

 

*Also if it came to a choice between Perrins loyalty to Rand or his Loyalty to Elayne, im 100% certain he would side with Rand. hence Elayne would not have his armies.

[Fel]

Quote

Elayne being Elayne and attempting to secure double thrones instead of preparing and supporting Rand.

You think she can't support Rand by showing up at TG with the armies of Andor (including the TR), Cairhien, Ghealdan, Mayene and the Whitecloaks at her back?

 

Elayne wont have TR, ghealdan, Mayene or the Whitecloaks. If i remember rightly Perrin arrives before Elayne and camps on Rands side of the field. Plus Elayne gave the Two rivers to Rand so the TR army is essentially his with control given totally to Perrin.

I said TG, not the FoM. Elayne made Rand High Lord of the TR, with Perrin as his Steward, but it is still a part of her country. So TR is, ultimately, Elayne's. If Elayne calls her banners, she calls Andor and Cairhien, including the TR, and thus Perrin calls Ghealdan, and Mayene is part of their alliance, and the Whitecloaks are with them for the time being. "Perrin, as your ally and subject lord, will agree to marshall troops in your defense. He will also call upon his sworn monarchs to your allegiance." "And you would be at our head". Both quotes from ToM 47, from Faile to Elayne. Mayene and the Whitecloaks are a bit dubious, as neither agreed to join that alliance in that chapter, but the rest are all there, at her back, should she call on them. Which she is likely to do come TG.

I think the point is that all of those, except Andor, were *already* coming to TG. Perrin was bringing TR, Gheldean and the whitecloaks. Rand's stewards were bringing Cairhein. So, her taking the throne at this time was *not* to improve TG or for anything about the last battle. It was because she *could* because Rand gave them to her as his girlfriend. She is still playing politics for her personal power while the last battle approaches...a feature that everyone has routinely despised from the high lords of tear and cairhein before this.

 

So Elayne turns up with Cairhien and Andoran Armies. Only to have her City Sacked (Caemlyn) because she came at Egwenes beck and call.

Wait, was there some way Caemlyn was not going to be attacked?

Perhaps the Shadow approves of Rand's plan, and anyone that agrees with it is thus helping the Shadow, so they won't attack their inadvertant allies. Damn you, Elayne, your desire to oppose Rand's poorly explained plan that he refused to justify and that risks unleashing Shai'tan has led to many Andorans dying! Next time, maybe you'll just go along with all your boyfriend's crackpot shemes.

With regards to the "crackpot scheme"...what alternative are Egwene/Elayne thinking? From what the reader can tell, they are not researching or working on any other plan, despite the best library in the world in Tar Valon and entire Ajahs dedicated to this kind of research. They are marshaling armies (for what reason exactly?!?) to oppose the plan without any other viable alternative. Note; this is more of an egwene criticism than Elayne...though I would hope that she would give Rand a little more benefit of the doubt since he *is* the "love of her life" and the father of her children.

 

I don't see how the sacking of Caemlyn is Elayne's fault...If anything, I wonder why Rand did not do something about that waygate? he seemed to have set people to booby trapped all of the ones he knew about a few books ago...why leave the one he knew for certain in Caemlyn?

[Mr Ares]

Perhaps the Shadow approves of Rand's plan, and anyone that agrees with it is thus helping the Shadow, so they won't attack their inadvertant allies. Damn you, Elayne, your desire to oppose Rand's poorly explained plan that he refused to justify and that risks unleashing Shai'tan has led to many Andorans dying! Next time, maybe you'll just go along with all your boyfriend's crackpot shemes.

 

I dont doubt the fact that Egwene and co have the right to oppose the plan, and if Elayne wants to oppose as well so be it. BUT what Egwene didn't need to do is bring all the armies into it.

Her reason for dragging armies into it is stated quite clearly - she wants as many people opposed to Rand's plan as possible, to confront him with as big a show of force as possible. Just the leaders and their honour guards might not be enough. Taking ground back from the Shadow might be tough, but shoving Shai'tan back into the Bore isn't exactly going to be a walk in the park either.

 

*Also if it came to a choice between Perrins loyalty to Rand or his Loyalty to Elayne, im 100% certain he would side with Rand. hence Elayne would not have his armies.

Well, that would be a case of civil war, Rand turning on his Queen.

 

 

Quote

Elayne being Elayne and attempting to secure double thrones instead of preparing and supporting Rand.

You think she can't support Rand by showing up at TG with the armies of Andor (including the TR), Cairhien, Ghealdan, Mayene and the Whitecloaks at her back?

 

Elayne wont have TR, ghealdan, Mayene or the Whitecloaks. If i remember rightly Perrin arrives before Elayne and camps on Rands side of the field. Plus Elayne gave the Two rivers to Rand so the TR army is essentially his with control given totally to Perrin.

I said TG, not the FoM. Elayne made Rand High Lord of the TR, with Perrin as his Steward, but it is still a part of her country. So TR is, ultimately, Elayne's. If Elayne calls her banners, she calls Andor and Cairhien, including the TR, and thus Perrin calls Ghealdan, and Mayene is part of their alliance, and the Whitecloaks are with them for the time being. "Perrin, as your ally and subject lord, will agree to marshall troops in your defense. He will also call upon his sworn monarchs to your allegiance." "And you would be at our head". Both quotes from ToM 47, from Faile to Elayne. Mayene and the Whitecloaks are a bit dubious, as neither agreed to join that alliance in that chapter, but the rest are all there, at her back, should she call on them. Which she is likely to do come TG.

Perrin was bringing TR, Gheldean and the whitecloaks. Rand's stewards were bringing Cairhein. So, her taking the throne at this time was *not* to improve TG or for anything about the last battle. It was because she *could* because Rand gave them to her as his girlfriend. She is still playing politics for her personal power while the last battle approaches...a feature that everyone has routinely despised from the high lords of tear and cairhein before this.

By playing politics, you mean she took a throne that had been held open for her? And then ordered everyone who could to take up arms - apparently that order hadn't yet been given, so there is a clear advantage to her taking the throne before TG. So she is not neglecting TG, although she has plans beyond it. That is not at all what people despised about the actions of Tairen and Cairhienin nobles, which was the neglect for TG, and working against Rand's plans.

 

So Elayne turns up with Cairhien and Andoran Armies. Only to have her City Sacked (Caemlyn) because she came at Egwenes beck and call.

Wait, was there some way Caemlyn was not going to be attacked?

Perhaps the Shadow approves of Rand's plan, and anyone that agrees with it is thus helping the Shadow, so they won't attack their inadvertant allies. Damn you, Elayne, your desire to oppose Rand's poorly explained plan that he refused to justify and that risks unleashing Shai'tan has led to many Andorans dying! Next time, maybe you'll just go along with all your boyfriend's crackpot shemes.

With regards to the "crackpot scheme"...what alternative are Egwene/Elayne thinking?

How about 1) come up with a plan, 2) break the seals. As opposed to 1)break the seals, 2)haven't decided yet. As far as the reader can tell, it is not just Egwene who is failing to put in any thought as to what should be done. Rand's plan, as stated, is absurd - he plans to unleash Shai'tan. Opposing that is entirely reasonable. Hell, Egwene gave him the chance to explain his reasoning, and he refused. No-one has yet presented a viable plan for defeating the Shadow.

 

I don't see how the sacking of Caemlyn is Elayne's fault...If anything, I wonder why Rand did not do something about that waygate? he seemed to have set people to booby trapped all of the ones he knew about a few books ago...why leave the one he knew for certain in Caemlyn?

He did do something about the Caemlyn Waygate - he says so in KoD, and Verin's letter explicitly says it is thought to be secure.

[randsc]

"Rand turning on his Queen"

 

Absurd.

 

1. Rand no longer lives in Andor, and was never a serf bound to the land, and so is free to leave;

 

2. Rand has not accepted (or even yet been offered) the Two Rivers. Perrin and Elayne can't work out a deal that binds Rand in a fuedal relationship with Elayne without Rand accepting.

 

Elayne is not Rand's Queen.

[Mr Ares]

And TR is not in Andor. Oh, wait...

[blazetheearth]

"Rand turning on his Queen"

 

Absurd.

 

1. Rand no longer lives in Andor, and was never a serf bound to the land, and so is free to leave;

 

2. Rand has not accepted (or even yet been offered) the Two Rivers. Perrin and Elayne can't work out a deal that binds Rand in a fuedal relationship with Elayne without Rand accepting.

 

Elayne is not Rand's Queen.

 

I agree that Rand is not turning on "his Queen" nor could he, as King of Illian, be considered beholden to the sovereign of another nation without a direct Oath of Fealty such as Alliendre gave to Perrin. Rand did not give, nor even suggest that Perrin was given, the authority to speak for Rand except where Ghaldean was concerned (unlike the authority Rand gave Merana and crew in negotiating for him).

 

Granted he will likely go along with what Perrin and Elayne cooked up, but as of the end of ToM, Rand is King of Illian and has NO OTHER significant titles in the Westlands, except of course Dragon Reborn. In actuality, it comes a lot closer to being the other way around. The Dragon Reborn is not just a title. He is unique and if he does not succeed then the Shadow encompasses all,which makes him a bit more important than any King or Queen in the Westlands.

 

I completely understand and believe that Eggy did exactly as Rand intended she would, and since I think that Eggy was doing Rand's bidding (whether she knows it or not) I also believe that the results were ta'veren work.

 

Elayne knows that at least one of the Lords whose Lady opposed her for the throne of Andor is still in the field with a considerable force (Jared but I cant remember what house), but in spite of knowing this she strips Andor of it's army to take to FoM. And considering we see her thinking about this Lord and his army after she has the throne, it would seem logical for her to leave at least as many troops in Camelyn to keep from having to retake the city from Jared. The only reason I can see for her, Dylin, and Brigette to all put Jared on the back burner and carry off all of the troops to FoM is ta'veren. Rand needs her armies there, just like Perrin needed Galad so Galad took the paths he did. Even though the AS, as we see from one point of view during TPoD i think, believe that ta'veren cannot affect someone that they are not near to or who is not close by, we, as readers, know that this isn't true. Mat apparently could affect Verin from thousands of leagues away, Perrin could apparently affect Galad from miles away, so there is no reason to think that Elayne's Armies going to FoM is not Rand's ta'veren nature pulling things into plce where he needs them.