The Bodyswap Theory

[Luckers]

I've encountered some confusion over the nature of what the bodyswap theory is in a couple of threads and figured I'd repost it... sorry for those of you who have read it, just ignore this thread, lol.

 

The body swap theory is based on my attempt to address the issue of confliction of prophecy. People had come up with any number of explanations that addressed and answered individual prophecies, but the problem was that there were numerous prophecies that addressed the death of Rand. Together, they established a sequence of requirements for that incident. The complete list of those prophecies that are relevent are as follows.

 

EGWENE DREAMING: Logain, laughing, stepped across something on the ground and mounted a black stone; when she looked down, she thought it was Rand's body he had stepped over, laid out on a funeral bier with his hands crossed at his breast, but when she touched his face, it broke apart like a paper puppet. [ACOS: 10, Unseen Eyes, 202]

 

 

Which possibly connects to...

 

EGWENE DREAMING: A man lay dying in a narrow bed, and it was important that he not die, yet outside a funeral pyre was being built, and voices raised songs of joy and sadness. [ACOS: 10, Unseen Eyes, 203]

 

And maybe this too...

 

EGWENE DREAMING: Rand, wearing different masks, until suddenly one of those false faces was no longer a mask, but him. [TPOD: 15, Stronger than Written Law, 308]

 

MIN VIEWING: three woman standing over a funeral bier with him on it. [tEotW]

 

MIN VIEWING: I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't. [ACOS: 33, A Bath, 526]

 

MIN VIEWING: [Min]"Rand, I like Alivia, But she is going to kill you." [Rand replies]: "You said she was going to help me die… Those were your words." [WH: 25, Bonds, 483]

 

NICOLA FORETELLING: Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. [LOC: 14, Dreams and Nightmares, 255]

 

 

Which ties to...

 

WISE ONE DREAMING: Melaine and Bair dreamed of you [Rand] on a boat with three women whose faces they could not see and a scale tilting first one way and then the other.

 

AELFINN ANSWER: He [Rand] knew he had a chance to live, if a seemingly impossible one. If you would live, you must die. [LOC: 26, Connecting Lines, 373]

 

He had been told by those he had to believe. To live, you must die. [WH: 25, Bonds, 483]

 

PERRIN DREAMING: Mat vanished, and it was Rand. Perrin thought it was Rand. He wore rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage covered his eyes.

 

Which ties to...

 

MIN VIEWING: a beggar's staff. [tEotW]

 

 

 

In any case, individually there are answers to all. My attempt was to look at what, as a whole, they established. Too me, this sequence layed down a certain set of requirements.

 

ON RANDS DEATH.

 

1. Rand must actually die. Or, at least, some aspect of him (this ties into the definition of death in this world, which i will address later). In any case the language is fairly clear, too clear for it to be a faked death, or just people assuming he's dead in the event that he disapears. He must die.

 

2. This death must be the result of an intentional effort by himself, with Alivia's aid. Alivia will help him die. Alivia will not kill him, she will aid HIM in causing his own death.

 

3. That some aspect of himself must survive that death... and i mean that literally. It must SURVIVE, not just be resurrected or resusitated later. The language is clear, he who is dead, YET lives. The language is concurrent. He is both dead AND alive, not dead THEN alive. Note the Mat prophecy. To die and live again as a part of what was. He died, THEN he lives again. Rand dies, YET he lives. That forbids balefire too, by the way.

 

Now, death in this world is established by the death of the physical body in which a person resides. Their souls do not die at this time, yet they are still termed as dead. This has been shown many times, both in the nature of the Wheel itself, and specifically in the deaths and recycling of the Forsaken. Death=the death of the body.

 

ON THE BODY-SWAP

 

So, with those requirements in mind, lets look at some of the other prophecies, specifically those deal with Rand blending with another man, Rand putting on masks and becoming them, Rand being a beggar, and so on.

 

Now, Rand assumes that Min's viewing regarding him blending with another man refers to Lews Therin, yet at the time Min reacts with disbelief, as if something about that did not sit right with her. I suggest the possibility that it is in fact Mordin that this refers to.

 

The actual facilitating factor of the body-swap is the mental link that Rand forms with Moridin during the incident in which their balefire streams crossed in Shadar Logoth in book 7. Since then, we have seen that link grow increasingly stronger. Moreover, we have seen that the link is apparent when Rand siezes the power. Saidin is the contributing factor of the link, which is likely why Moridin has given over its use entirely, something he never did before in all his three thousand years.

 

In any case by KoD we see that the link has grown strong enough for Rand to actively percieve Moridin, as opposed to a nauseating jumble of perceptions, or a blurry half-image. I believe that it will continue to grow. Then, during the final assault at Shayoul Ghoul, i believe that Rand and Moridin will fight each other, and that Rand will sever Moridin's connection to the dark one, as he did once before. Moridin will draw on saidin, and that will complete the link resulting in the bodyswap.

 

CONCLUSION AND TIE IN

 

Now, thats all very good, and whatnot, but whats the ultimate tie in that i suggested was the reason i constructed this theory?

 

Quite simply, it fits. After this i believe that Moridin in Rands body will escape, and the Dark One will be defeated. In the epilogue we will come to Moridin, hiding as a beggar, feeling despair, yet some hope that he may yet recover things. Alivia and Rand will approach and kill him. Rand is actually dead, in the sense that this world defines death: that his body is dead. Yet he lives, and the death and the living are concurrent. Alivia and Rand collaborated in the death. He blurred with another man, and one did live and one did die. Then there is the fact that i dont see our hero ending up as a beggar at any stage, and then there is the ongoing unhealable damage that RJ is inflicting on him.

 

I dont nessasarily like the bodyswap. I just think it is the only thing that fits all the facts, and is the most likely to occur.

 

 

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

 

"The blood of the Dragon Reborn on the rocks of Shayol Ghul will free mankind from the Shadow."

 

"His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation."

As I've said elsewhere, the Books already give us a relatively simple and straightforward way for Rand to die and live again.

 

My belief is that the manner of his death will be by Moridin ripping his soul from his body in the Pit of Doom.  Then the DO will implant Moridin's soul into Rand's body.  Simple transmigration as already practiced multiple times by the Dark.  Thus will the Shadow appear to "turn the Dragon to the Dark."  ( The moon by day... )

 

I think Rand already anticipates this because of Ba'alzamon's failed attempt to do the same thing in Tear. 

 

Thereafter, Rand/LTT's soul will be cast out of T'a'R and Bonded to keep him alive, ala Birgitte.  What body he will wear when this happens is an interesting corollary question.  My guess is he will reappear looking like LTT.

 

Subsequently, "LTT" and Alivia, working together, will "kill" the Rand body. ( ... and the Sun by night. ) ( The second dawning of the day on which his blood is shed. )

 

The problem with having it all work out this way is that first, either Rand needs to encounter Elayne and Birgitte so that he can work out how it will be possible, or subsequent to the body swap, Nynaeve will need to put it together and make it happen.

 

That Nynaeve will be the one to accomplish the 'rebirth' is the one thing I'm surest about.

 

All of this is likely to be too taxing too soon for the 'reborn' Dragon, and it seems likely that when the book ends it will be unclear whether the Dragon will survive or not.

[Luckers]

With all due respect Bob, this thread wasn't for you--it was to provide some of the newer posters with the nature of the suggested bodyswap.

 

You want to discuss your idea then I'm keen, but perhaps start a new thread on it. This one I'd like to remain informational for the bodyswap, if possible.

 

 

[RAND AL THOR]

I thank luckers for this. I never really understood why people supported the body swap idea till now. But

 

I don't like it. It makes a lot of sense. But I don't like the idea of the main character existing in the body of the Nae'blis of Evil at the end of the book. I seriously hope it doesn't come down to this. But, as Luckers said, the huge degree of damage that Rand's body has received makes it likely that that body may not be the housing of Rand in the future.

 

Bob's theory seems awfully complex and I havent seen such complex events in the books at all so far so I don't think thats RJ's style.

 

So far, I find both theories on this thread a disappointing solution to the book (despite both having many positive points). I can't help but think that RJ planned a very different but satisfying finale for us that none of us has yet worked out.

[Luckers]

I myself don't nessasarily like it, i just find it to be the only explenation that adequatly explains all the requirements in prophecy--and the only one building in the text itself, with the increasing strength of the Rand/Moridin link.

 

 

[Asmo]

Lol, the bodyswap idea is a condensed bulk of epic fail. It reminds me of a character in a show called Dragonball Z I used to watch some good five years back.

 

 

Seriously, massive fail.

 

Anyway, it makes sense, but it's horrible, and there are tons of other ways everything could work out logically. The Prophecies don't have to be taken to their literal meaning after all, according to the characters in the books themselves. That is to say, all your points are valid and all, and it would make sense in the story, but... it'd just be bad.

[Bob T Dwarf]

With all due respect Bob, this thread wasn't for you--it was to provide some of the newer posters with the nature of the suggested bodyswap.

 

You want to discuss your idea then I'm keen, but perhaps start a new thread on it. This one I'd like to remain informational for the bodyswap, if possible.

 

I don't see the 'link' between them as being necessary.  As witnessed by Osan'gar, Aran'gar, and Cyndane, they already have a reliable method of removing souls from bodies making transmigration possible that doesn't require any crossing of streams of balefire formed from different Powers.

 

IOW, it aint broke, so why would Jordan be 'fixing' it?

 

All of the prophesies speak of him dying, not moving to a new house.  So, however Moridin ultimately gets into Rand's body, Rand won't be moving into Moridin's body.

[Safia al-Maaz]

I don't like the idea that Rand would be in Moridin's body... especially considering the addiction to the True Power, though that may not be a physical addiction.

 

Also, when a person is in TAR, he appears in his most recent bodily form, so if he were ripped out, he would look like the current Rand, not LTT.

[RAND AL THOR]

Ideas about ripping out of TAR and stuff like that are unstable and don't have sufficient support. The possibility of such events is very low indeed. We can't assume that the reason Birgitte was thrust out of TAR is purely so that Rand learns of it later and something similar happens to him too. That is not very coherent.

 

 

[Lord Nik]

RAND DYING THEN MAT BLOWS THE HORN BRINGING RAND BACK AS A HERO!!!!!

[CUBAREY]

We can't assume that the reason Birgitte was thrust out of TAR is purely so that Rand learns of it later and something similar happens to him too. That is not very coherent.

 

 

It is not purely so that something similar happens to him. But its suggestive that the only to people (Nyneave and Elayne) that know how Briggete got to the Third Age are close to Egwene who has been studying about the Dream World for 5 books now.

[MatrixM]

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

 

"The blood of the Dragon Reborn on the rocks of Shayol Ghul will free mankind from the Shadow."

 

"His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation."

As I've said elsewhere, the Books already give us a relatively simple and straightforward way for Rand to die and live again.

 

My belief is that the manner of his death will be by Moridin ripping his soul from his body in the Pit of Doom.  Then the DO will implant Moridin's soul into Rand's body.  Simple transmigration as already practiced multiple times by the Dark.  Thus will the Shadow appear to "turn the Dragon to the Dark."  ( The moon by day... )

 

I think Rand already anticipates this because of Ba'alzamon's failed attempt to do the same thing in Tear. 

 

Thereafter, Rand/LTT's soul will be cast out of T'a'R and Bonded to keep him alive, ala Birgitte.  What body he will wear when this happens is an interesting corollary question.  My guess is he will reappear looking like LTT.

 

Subsequently, "LTT" and Alivia, working together, will "kill" the Rand body. ( ... and the Sun by night. ) ( The second dawning of the day on which his blood is shed. )

 

The problem with having it all work out this way is that first, either Rand needs to encounter Elayne and Birgitte so that he can work out how it will be possible, or subsequent to the body swap, Nynaeve will need to put it together and make it happen.

 

That Nynaeve will be the one to accomplish the 'rebirth' is the one thing I'm surest about.

 

All of this is likely to be too taxing too soon for the 'reborn' Dragon, and it seems likely that when the book ends it will be unclear whether the Dragon will survive or not.

Why does Moridin want Rand alive, then?

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

With all due respect Bob, this thread wasn't for you--it was to provide some of the newer posters with the nature of the suggested bodyswap.

 

You want to discuss your idea then I'm keen, but perhaps start a new thread on it. This one I'd like to remain informational for the bodyswap, if possible

UNQUOTE

 

In other words, dont comment on this theory unless your going to back it up. Never thought Id see a post like that from a moderator.

 

Anyway, I DO agree with the theory, I posted a similar one before the Dragonmount site was remade (I was called Rimran then, or Lews Therin Telamon) and I posted that the link would bring about Rand and Moridin switching bodies. Although I didnt realise just how much there is to point towards it until now

[Mutsumi]

Yeah, see there's a difference between not wanting a debate or discussion and not  wanting to have it in a certain place. You do note that in the part you quoted Luckers did suggest a discussion on the subject, just in a different thread ;) The reason being, I'm assuming, was that this thread was created purely for informational purposes where the people not informed on the details of the theory could ask about them and that the debate about the validity of differing theories should be had in another thread. Reasoning being that new people would not have to trudge through 98 pages of debate to get some tidbit information they need.

 

Also, first post!

[Luckers]

Absolutely not Dreadlord--I stated that this thread should remain on the topic of the bodyswap--negative, or positive, it should stick to topic, and that is forum policy. Stating new theories, ever related theories, as Bob did in the second post (the post to which i was responding in your quotation) should be done in new, seperate threads.

 

I have no problems with comments that don't agree with the bodyswap, but alternative theories should go in new threads. End of story.

 

 

Also, Welcome Matsumi!

 

Anyway, it makes sense, but it's horrible, and there are tons of other ways everything could work out logically. The Prophecies don't have to be taken to their literal meaning after all, according to the characters in the books themselves. That is to say, all your points are valid and all, and it would make sense in the story, but... it'd just be bad.

 

Well, thats precisely the issue isn't it--there are not tons of other ways that answer all of the requirements that are set down by prophecy about Rand's death--the balefire scenario comes close, but faces problems in Egwene's dream of the corpse crumbling and Niccola's foretelling of Rand being dead and alive at the same time. In effect, there is not a single other explanation that addresses all the requirements BUT the bodyswap. At least not yet, perhaps someone will come up with a new theory soon.

 

I don't see the 'link' between them as being necessary.  As witnessed by Osan'gar, Aran'gar, and Cyndane, they already have a reliable method of removing souls from bodies making transmigration possible that doesn't require any crossing of streams of balefire formed from different Powers.

 

IOW, it aint broke, so why would Jordan be 'fixing' it?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at Bob--what would Jordan be fixing, and what is broken? The Dark Ones method of soul transmigration is hardly the only method in the world--we've seen dreamers souls leave their bodies, and pull other peoples souls out of their bodies. We've seen Machin Shin eat souls, and Mordeth's soul survive thousands of years to implant itself in Fain. We've seen ter'angreal steal souls and imprison them, seen shadowspawn eat them, seen dead souls ripped back into the real world by the one power....

 

The state of the world is that soul manipulation is a relatively common reality--there is nothing broken there. It's simply the state of reality. Shai'tain based soul manipulation is merely another in a long line.

 

All of the prophesies speak of him dying, not moving to a new house.  So, however Moridin ultimately gets into Rand's body, Rand won't be moving into Moridin's body.

 

I addressed that in the post Bob--'death' in this world is linked to the death of the physical body--in the case, the death described is the death of Moridin in Rand's body at the hands of Rand-in-Moridin and Alivia. Look back to the initial post for the full details.

 

I don't like the idea that Rand would be in Moridin's body... especially considering the addiction to the True Power, though that may not be a physical addiction.

 

Even if it is a physical addicition, which given the saa seems likely, Rand will simply have to deal with it. He'll hardly be able to go down to a street corner and score some True Power.

 

Also, when a person is in TAR, he appears in his most recent bodily form, so if he were ripped out, he would look like the current Rand, not LTT.

 

Perhaps. My guess is that the physical form in TAR is more of an amalgamation of the infinite incarnations of the soul. Thus he would probably look nothing like either Rand or LTT, though he'd have similar attributes.

 

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at Bob--what would Jordan be fixing, and what is broken? The Dark Ones method of soul transmigration is hardly the only method in the world--we've seen dreamers souls leave their bodies, and pull other peoples souls out of their bodies. We've seen Machin Shin eat souls, and Mordeth's soul survive thousands of years to implant itself in Fain. We've seen ter'angreal steal souls and imprison them, seen shadowspawn eat them, seen dead souls ripped back into the real world by the one power....

 

The state of the world is that soul manipulation is a relatively common reality--there is nothing broken there. It's simply the state of reality. Shai'tain based soul manipulation is merely another in a long line.

 

Here's what lies at the heart of your theory:

 

The actual facilitating factor of the body-swap is the mental link that Rand forms with Moridin during the incident in which their balefire streams crossed in Shadar Logoth in book 7.

 

No such link is needed in order for Moridin to transplant his soul into Rand's body.  All that is required is that the body still be alive and not mortally damaged at the time of the transplant.  Adding a requirement for that link is simply a needlessly complicating factor.

 

The way the Dark already does it works just fine.  It aint broke.  There's no need for some new mystical fix.

[Luckers]

But the Dark One won't be doing this. This will result as an unpredicted accident, a result of that link, and thus is very nessasary. Were the Dark One to do this is would require complete control of the Dragon's body, and the Dark One has much greater need in turning the Dragon than in putting Moridin's soul in it's most recent incarnation. It makes no sense.

[Bob T Dwarf]

An 'unpredicted accident'?  Aren't you in fact predicting it?  Why would it be accidental? 

 

The only logical reason for why the Dark has so assiduously avoided killing Rand so far is that placing Ishamael's soul into the Dragon's body has been an ultimate goal all along.  Everything that the DO has ordered done has had the aim of getting Rand into the Pit of Doom where that transmigration can be most easily accomplished.

 

 

 

[Luckers]

An 'unpredicted accident'?  Aren't you in fact predicting it?  Why would it be accidental? 

 

Did you read the theory? I suggest it results because of both of them channeling saidin in close proximity, which is the foundation that causes the link to activate--thus accident. And unpredicted by the characters. It will result without intention.

 

The only logical reason for why the Dark has so assiduously avoided killing Rand so far is that placing Ishamael's soul into the Dragon's body has been an ultimate goal all along.  Everything that the DO has ordered done has had the aim of getting Rand into the Pit of Doom where that transmigration can be most easily accomplished.

 

Actually that is illogical. If simple elimination of the Dragon's current incarnation was the goal then Ishamael could have seen him dead or hostage a thousand times. Clearly the main direction of their efforts is at the risk of the soul itself. Attaining the alleigence of the Dragon Soul would end the ongoing cycle.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I suggest it results because of both of them channeling saidin in close proximity, which is the foundation that causes the link to activate--thus accident.

 

IIRC, you're one of those who say that Moridin has foresworn the use of saidin entirely.  So, how are they suddenly both "channeling saidin in close proximity"?

 

If such a complete switch happens, and if it is totally unforeseen by any of the characters, how do either of them adapt to the change quickly enough to accomplish anything useful?  Why would the author render both the main protagonist and the main antagonist hors de combat at the same time?

 

How does putting the Dragon soul into a different body secure the Dragon's allegiance?

 

An accidental switch doesn't work on any level.  A deliberately pre-planned and pre-prepared one does.

[RAND AL THOR]

I don't think that there is any proof yet that Moridin is not using saidin at all. ??? ::)

[Luckers]

IIRC, you're one of those who say that Moridin has foresworn the use of saidin entirely.  So, how are they suddenly both "channeling saidin in close proximity"?

 

You really did not read the initial post, did you?

 

*sigh* Indeed, I do state that--Moridin's forewswearence of saidin is in fact one of the points that suggests the bodyswap. Drawing on saidin is clearly what facilitates the link, thus clearly the reason that Moridin turns exclusively to the use of the true power, inspite of near to 4,000 years of using them in mixture.

 

Thus the suggestion is that Rand severs Moridin from the dark One, much as he did Ishamael, resulting in the man drawing on saidin, thus causing the bodyswap. All of this was stated in the initial post mate. Go back and read it.

 

If such a complete switch happens, and if it is totally unforeseen by any of the characters, how do either of them adapt to the change quickly enough to accomplish anything useful?  Why would the author render both the main protagonist and the main antagonist hors de combat at the same time?

 

Rand loses his hand and shrugs it off in a moment. He'll adapt. Moridin... maybe so, maybe not. I go for not, frankly. I suspect Moridin will survive Tarmon Gai'don and be killed in the epilogue, but thats just guess work--he might be killed then and there.

 

How does putting the Dragon soul into a different body secure the Dragon's allegiance?

 

It doesn't... again mate, the Dark One isn't the cause for this.

 

An accidental switch doesn't work on any level.  A deliberately pre-planned and pre-prepared one does.

 

Well, again, it does. The buildup of the link between Moridin and Rand sustains it. There is no basis for a planned swap, and beyond that, as i stated, is serves no purpose.

 

I don't think that there is any proof yet that Moridin is not using saidin at all.

 

It's commented on by the Forsaken.

[Kadere]

Now, thats all very good, and whatnot, but whats the ultimate tie in that i suggested was the reason i constructed this theory?

 

Quite simply, it fits. After this i believe that Moridin in Rands body will escape, and the Dark One will be defeated. In the epilogue we will come to Moridin, hiding as a beggar, feeling despair, yet some hope that he may yet recover things. Alivia and Rand will approach and kill him. Rand is actually dead, in the sense that this world defines death: that his body is dead. Yet he lives, and the death and the living are concurrent. Alivia and Rand collaborated in the death. He blurred with another man, and one did live and one did die. Then there is the fact that i dont see our hero ending up as a beggar at any stage, and then there is the ongoing unhealable damage that RJ is inflicting on him.

 

I dont nessasarily like the bodyswap. I just think it is the only thing that fits all the facts, and is the most likely to occur.

 

 

Ok, I for one hate this theory with the passion of a thousand firey suns, and if this is really the ending RJ was spending so much time getting to, frankly I think it was time ill-spent. But this part here I just do not believe is supported by the evidence in the series.

 

I've read in other threads about this same theory that you believe that this part where Moridin is the begger and he runs around with a staff and a blind fold is all tied back into Min's viewing of a beggar's staff and Perrin's dream vision of Rand as a beggar and yadda yadda yadda. But I can't buy that.

 

My main problem with it is Min. Why, or better yet HOW, does Min look at Rand al'Thor in EotW and forsee MORIDIN'S future as a beggar? How does this work exactly? She doesn't see the future of the body, she sees the future of the person. I mean you're asking us to believe with absolute certainty that Min is seeing Ishamael's future, as Rand, in his body, as a beggar. Why then wouldn't she see RAND'S future in Moridin's body? I mean even that would make a little more sense here since she's looking at Rand.

 

I also don't see the necessity of having Alivia around when he wacks poor pathetic Moridin. She's suppose to help him die, and by doing that she goes with him to kill his old body? Why not send anybody else, or do himself now that he's got the awesomely young and strong body of Moridin? Wouldn't it almost make more sense for her to have something to do with the actual soul swapping body swap? Provided there is one at all. Killing Moridin isn't really helping him die, it's simply making sure that no one ever discovers Moridin.

 

And then Rand as a beggar, I actually think would make perfect sense. Provided he is a beggar. The viewings and discriptions describe a beggar's staff and dress, but does that necessarily mean he is a beggar? Maybe, maybe not. Let's say it does mean he's a beggar. This series has already borrowed from The Chronicles of Dune quite a bit, and in Dune Paul ends up light sensitive, missing a hand, and as a beggar. So I think it's at least possible for Rand to as well.

 

And then there's the viewing/foretelling/dream of Elayne, Min, and Aviendha standing around a funeral bier with Rand on it. I'm guessing in the world of this theory it means Rand's body. So wouldn't that mean that Elayne, Min, and Aviendha are all in the dark about the body swap? So they all decide to basically cry over Moridin. Why not tell them? And if it's actually Moridin's body with Rand in it, then wouldn't they see Moridin's body, not Rand's? I mean you could say that basically he decided not to tell all his girlfriends so that no one would no he's alive. But if that's the case, living was practically worthless. He's now alive in Moridin's body yet he can't interact with his girls, he can't marry them, he can't interact with his kids. He's virtually a beggar who has to stay off the grid. UNLESS the funeral bier with Moridin in Rand's body on it ACTUALLY is taking place just because they don't know about it YET! In which case, that almost makes sense, but I can't understand why it was so important to have so many foretellings/viewings/ and dreams about. The whole thing seems very very very King Arthur, in which it really is indeed King Arthur with his sisters around him taking him to Babelyon. But if it's really Moridin, who really cares if he's dead?

 

Speaking of caring if he's dead, I believe you stated in a previous thread about this same subject that you believed that Egwene's man who's dying but it's important that he doesn't die while others are building his funeral pyre was in fact Moridin in his beggar/Rand body state. But I don't get this at all. Why the heck is it at all important that Moridin doesn't die? I mean in the theory Rand and Alivia are going to go wack him anyway. So is it really important that Rand and Alivia don't do that? Cause that'll really suck when they do. And if you're actually saying it's Rand as the man a) Why didn't Egwene recognize him at all? b) Why didn't he look horribly injured from the missing hand and the light sensitivity? c) At what point is this? I mean if the man is Rand before the Last Battle and he's dying and they're already building his funeral pyre then Rand by the end of KoD really should be DYING, and he's not. If he gets worse to the point that he is DYING then how's he going to show up to Shayol Ghul at all? If it's after the last battle then by your theory it's Moridin, or it's Rand in Moridin's body, in which case a) again who cares if Moridin dies and b) if it's Rand in Moridin's body then he's already WON the Last Battle and he can croak when ever. Or, it's Rand in Moridin's body after the Last Battle and it's important he not die so that he can play bridge on sunday and see his kids. If it's Rand dying and somehow Egwene doesn't recognize him, maybe it's Rand "dying" and Alivia is there helping him into the other body.... don't know. Heck it could be someone totally different.

 

I don't know. I think it would make more sense for Rand to just DIE after Tarmon Gai'don, or maybe act as a beggar for a while and then die, but actually DIE so that he can live again in another Age, and have THAT be the damn foretelling by the Finn's and everybody. And then we can have that line that Harriet used because she'd seen that RJ was going to use it that says "He was like the wind, and like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone." And then the stuff about sensing Moridin and his connection to Moridin just be like an awareness of him so he can find him and destroy him. And the part about them going into one another and the mask becoming him, can just be how he defeats him by ripping his soul.

 

I don't know. The whole theory just doesn't work for me. I don't think it answers many of the questions we have left, and I can't wait for Brandon Sanderson to finish so we can have the darn thing already and know straight out that there won't be and never was going to be this tragicly cliche ending to a phenominal series. Might as well have it turn out it was all inside a snow globe or have Egwene wake up in New York City and it was all a dream. I'm crossing my fingers it's not this lame. I really really am.

[Andrew the Great]

Also, in Min's viewing, the two men merge, not swap. Other than that and what Kadere was saying, I have no problems with the evidence for the body swap. I personally do not agree with it, but I can see why others would.

[Razor]

RAND DYING THEN MAT BLOWS THE HORN BRINGING RAND BACK AS A HERO!!!!!

 

This is what I always thought would happen.  However, Moridin going into Rand's body and then dying is interesting given the red and black portion of the prophecy, Moridin's colors.