Only thing I've had a problem with so far is the interview Rosamund just did where she talked about how it was great there were more naked men than women. I'm guessing it sounded a little better in person but her quotes sound pretty terrible when you read them.

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

INTERESTING FIND
Season 2 Episode 1 has a title? 
"A Taste of Solitude"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7462410/episodes?season=2

I think this is referring to Rand feeling alone at the beginning of tGH.

I think season 1 will end much like the book did, but with more of a cliffhanger. Maybe the Aes Sedai arriving, or the horn being stolen.

1 hour ago, Beidomon said:

Not really. Look, you can justify it however you wish, but we simply know lecturing when we see it. For example, when you start changing character sexuality or deviating from the lore of the books. But not really interested in heading back down this rabbit hole. 

Yikes

20 minutes ago, Tim said:

I tend to think saidin and saidar as separate things will be kept - if only because if they junked it they'd need to concoct a replacement explanation for the taint - but it just won't be talked about much. Given the limitations on the amount of lore the writers will be able to get into in a TV show, I think all they really need to do is get across to viewers is that, as a result of the split:

 

(a) male channelers go mad due to the taint;

 

and

 

(b) female channelers cannot teach male channelers. 

 

The aspect of the saidin / saidar split that feels most old-fashioned is that men wrestle with saidin whereas women submit to saidar, but while that feeds into (b) above I think it's not necessary for it, and again without access to the characters' thoughts it just would not be something that comes up a lot.

 

I think they'll be focusing on how to effectively convey the feel of the taint for the male channelers.

It's possible they won't talk about saidin until we get to Logain. If they don't talk about it at that point, then it maybe isn't in the story, so I wonder how the cleansing would work - I guess they'd just be removing the taint from the One Power when men channel it. 

But the idea that someone can choose whether they're a male channeler or female channeler and that determines whether it's tainted and they go mad is a non-starter.

4 hours ago, Pandemonium said:

we don't know yet if the one power will even have a gender component.  are they going to have saidin or saidar or just a one power that can be universally channeled regardless of gender (which would be most non binary friendly)?  that isn't known yet as far I know.  if gender is taken out all kinds of wild things are possible, including differences in channeling based on gender preferences.  If the one power doesn't have a gender component then they probably won't be using the Lew Therin banner with the yin&yang.  

So, like I said, there is close to zero evidence so far that your concerns, born out of your assumption (which you have stated as a fact but is only an opinion) that the creators have a certain agenda, will come to fruition.

13 minutes ago, Harldin said:

There are Songs that are in the show that need to be done in English and I think when we start seeing Thom and other Gleeman in Taverns, most of it will be in English but we may also get some of the stuff we have heard so far in the Old Tongue as well. The Aiel battle chant needs to be in English and of course Jak of the Shadows.  

Yes I agree that in book songs should be in English. 

1 hour ago, JaimAybara said:

 

 

Disclaimer: ***For those who disagree please don’t pull out pitchforks or torches. I understand this is a plot device that may only be used for a few episodes or the first season to draw in more viewers. But I will dive into the idea for discussion.***
 

The alleged changes are not minute to me. Changing the entire magic system and how the men and women of the world perceive each other / experience the world is a considerable shift at the least. The Dragon was feared as a male because men go insane and kill droves of people, and subsequently reshaped the world with their chaotic and tainted power. Women don’t. Also, not sure how a woman who channels Saidar could truly figure out they are the Dragon. The only ways to me is fulfill all the prophesies which at this point are altered very heavily, or be told by forsaken or the Dark One after being approached to turn. And they might not approach them at all if they are just leading common lives. So, without the Dark One doing this there is no way for them to determine that they are because they wouldn’t have the same chance of hearing past lives talk to them because they wouldn’t be going crazy. Therefore never “meet” Lews Therin. Unless women can for some reason channel Saidin…which I don’t know about that. Didn’t care for it in the books when the Dark One did it to the forsaken, don’t know how they would do it well even if they changed it.
 

So, here’s the rub. 1) Even if they were The Dragon Reborn they would have to alter so much that it’s not even telling the same story. 2) Even if it was only hypothesized… I don’t understand how the Aes Sedai could reach this conclusion nor how it would function in the grand scheme of things. Maybe the White Ajah suggested just to prepare for it and therefore bring them along. (Which as aforementioned in my disclaimer is what I think it is.) But the whole point of the Dragon is redemption for their past actions and taking away their insanity severely diminishes that plot point because now they are not suffering from their past actions in a martyr/savior way to the same degree. She wouldn’t be bearing the weight of the world to the same degree nor in a way to comprehend what they did to the world in the past fully. Do Aes Sedai even have historical examples of body swap reincarnations in the books or rewrites? If not, why would they think it? Also, she would be trained as a wise one not a clan chief. Not clan chief not Car’a’carn. Not Car’a’carn don’t fulfill further prophesy. (Unless they change even more) To me it creates a cascade effect of issues moving forward.

 

Honestly, from the teasers and trailers the character that seems the most faithful to their written form in my opinion is Nynaeve, which is why I’m more excited to see her at the moment. (Subject to change along with all my hot takes after watching the show) Not all of these alleged changes are confirmed truly, but have been talked about a lot. I personally don’t see how if they do change them as speculated to be, why these changes are “more beneficial.” They could’ve included Logain as another potential true dragon instead and they would have four suspects which is essentially the same amount and it wouldn’t mess with lore and operating systems at all, while pushing the mystery to a similar level. 
 

In the end we will have to wait and see if the gamble to make these changes pays off or not. “Time to roll the dice.” 

It doesn't change the magic system at all. It potentially changes behavior and attitudes. You're getting into a lot of what if a woman was the DR stuff here. I think the question is how Nynaeve and Egwene would be impacted if they thought they could be the DR. I think what you're talking about is interesting to think about, but is almost a different topic.

delete

1 hour ago, Pandemonium said:

It really could get wild if they go in that direction that's why  I am somewhat concerned about it.  Halima was one thing, but this could get real crazy real fast if they going down that road

There's no evidence that the things you're concerned about it (e.g. choosing between saidar/saidin) have more than a 0.1% chance of happening.

2 hours ago, Rhyagelle said:

 

I didn't say they were difficult just because they don't agree. I just said there have been very difficult people to deal with since this show started to pop off, that's all. There's such a thing called "toxic positivity" and it's a rampant problem just as much as toxic negativity. 

And no, that's not entirely true at all. As many flaws as there were in the Lord of the Rings, it is still an incredible adaptation for example. It changed a lot, certainly, but nothing so fundamental to the story in comparison to say tDR and how the Power works in Wheel of Time. A more recent example of a great adaptation? Dune. Was it 1:1? No. Was it incredible? Yes. Because it didn't alter and or remove the core pieces of how the world operates and whilst cutting and slightly re-arranging things, still told the same story with ease.

 

No one was or is expecting a carbon copy of Wheel of Time, and pointing out that because no adaptation will ever be 100% does nothing for the conversation at hand as to why it's "bad" to do what they are doing with WoT for so many fans. All because it operates under the assumption we expected only perfection and thus are being unreasonable because we dare to be upset about crucial changes. 

EDIT

Also... no one is upset just over a "few" minutes of teasers. That's ignoring what's being said to hyper-reduce opposing views about the show. People are upset because now even the book consultant for the show admitted drastic changes to the show lore, including for tDR, One Power etc etc. 

It's subjective whether she "admitted" to "drastic" changes, and I don't agree with that notion. You are kind of going off of a few minutes now, yet comparing it to LotR where there were a lot of changes and we already know all of the information. It isn't toxic positivity to think people should watch a few episodes and then have at it, instead of making all of these negative assumptions so readily. I'm not assuming the show is going to be great. I'm just hoping it is and reserving judgement for when I actually see it. There are a lot of people who are assuming it's going to suck, saying things like they aren't even going to watch it, before they've seen it, and that is really nonsensical to me.

24 minutes ago, Rhyagelle said:

 

So, someone finds something odd/disagreeable, and they think the first course of action is to be difficult? And somehow, that's acceptable? ?

And it's as I said; if the leaks are true and crucial lore has been changed, that's just not something that I can enjoy as a book fan. At all. Because I'm not interested in AU or anything like that, I was interested in the books being (as) faithfully adapted as possible. Did I expect a carbon copy of the books? No, no sane person could, but to have the most crucial part of the world's working disregarded immediately from the start is a terrible sign for me.

 

There's nothing wrong with saying that at all and if someone reacts to that in any form of hostility, it's a problem. On their end, not mine.

 

  

 

Yes, exactly. I'm sure they can tell their altered story very well, but it's not actually Wheel of Time, and certainly not part of the world I had fallen in love with and had been excited about.

 

I think it's far more problematic that some fans react to other fans not enjoying altered lore to be worth freaking out on them over (not saying that happened here of course). And I certainly doubt waiting to see the altered content is going to make me love that they disregarded it in the first place. The problem wasn't that I didn't think they could tell a fun story, far from it. It was that they weren't telling THE Wheel of Time story. 

I doubt anyone is being difficult because they don't agree with something. It's probably because the show is about to come out and there are people mad already over a few minutes of scenes, and it seems ridiculous.

If that's the case no TV or movie adaptation is actually the story it's adapting.

8 minutes ago, Lurker_Fan said:

Hmm, one concept is Eggy discovering a new weave. It requires 69 sisters to link. It will switch the target’s gender and switch to the other half of the power. Brilliant right?

Yes

1 hour ago, Pandemonium said:

you are saying it is horse shit that they aren't going to address transgender issues and channeling? this is a post asking how they are going to address saidin and saidar and the connection to gender.  The post started as a question so clearly it just speculative.  But this show is going to be LGBTQ friendly so it is highly likely they will touch on the element of non binary souls/transgender souls and their connection to the One Power.  I have no idea how they will approach but I don't know why you are so offended that the show would try to address this.  It is already changing the gender norms so none of this should be news.

 

The only question is how they will do it and hopefully not so such a direct soapbox way to the current politics of this day and age. b

You have no idea whether addressing these things is an agenda they have. Of course I'm not offended that they would address it. I think you have no idea that it's their agenda. There is source material directly in the books that addresses some of it. For example there are gay characters and it's not a big deal. But what you're focusing on is transgender. What you are suggesting with letting people choose saidar or saidin is a crazy huge leap. For one thing, they don't have modern medicine to change genders physically. That being the case, why would they have the ability to change between saidin and saidar? If that were the case all men would change to saidar so they don't go mad and it would mess up the entire story.

41 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 Don’t think it extremely odd at all.

 This story is one that has captured millions and in my view is one of the rare examples where the reader is really transported into the world created and the characters within it come to life in a way that few do.  The hope that this would ever be realised on screen had pretty much faded, so I think it is understandable that some are very upset with the changes to the story we’ve seen leaked and in trailers.

 Like getting a last chance and realising it wasn’t really a chance. 
The show could be great, but it isn’t going to be the story many fell in love with. It’s already been confirmed it’s a different turning of the wheel, so it’s more if a series based in the world of WoT rather than the WoT we know.

 

As to why the story needed to be different… that is the question. Maybe it was felt that with the outcome known from the books it needed to be to hold interest, maybe it was something else.

 For me I am still interested in what they do, but have very little hope that the writers are even close to the talent of RJ and this I am not expecting much… probably something more formulaic to capture eyeballs.

Judging the show and getting super negative based off of some trailers and interviews when we are getting full episodes soon isn't odd? Really not seeing how it isn't. Waiting and giving it a chance and some context doesn't deny you the chance to complain about it afterwards.

2 hours ago, Elgee said:

 

I'm with you on those two things. I'm still extremely exited to see the show, but I'm 50/50 on whether or not it's going to be awesome or make me mad. Changing things to make it better for screen I'm all for, but not because of other reasons (I can't begin to understand why "hollywood" does what it does, sometimes).

 

One more thing that's bothering me, is the soundtrack. So far everything I hear seems to be in the Old Tongue? Why? It doesn't mean anything to new viewers, they won't understand it, and quite frankly neither will most of the reader fandom. I hope further songs we here will be in English at least.

I don't think songs with English would have been a good idea. I think with a fantasy adaptation you either go all instrumental or you have a language very few people understand so it sounds like background noise that blends with the instruments. I like the music so far.

11 hours ago, Skipp said:

While I get the snark aren't Trolloc's only afraid of crossing running water?  Could be wrong, been a long time since I have thought about it.

The trolloc may be hesitant in the scene, and it may be part of why Nynaeve was able to kill it.

50 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

I agree that since they're probably not gonna bring up the lore that contradicts the change it ends up not being an issue. What little they might need to bring up (such as the prophecies and Gitara's foretelling), they can modify so it doesn't contradict Moiraine's statements. Since Rand will be revealed as the Dragon Reborn relatively quickly, the whole question can be put behind just as quickly.

 

That being said if has so little impact then I really question why they're making the change in the first place. Hopefully they have a really good reason for it. Because if they never do anything whatsoever with the fact that the world believes the Dragon Reborn could be/could have been a woman, then I will not be pleased.

I'm not really following the logic here. The change was clearly to add intrigue and increase the mystery for people not familiar with the story. The impact they are expecting is that more people will stay glued to the story, and keep watching, and then the other elements of the story will take over and by the end of season 1 that storyline will be done with. I feel people aren't really empathetic to what the show creators need to do in order to do all of the seasons they need. Making sure they get to tell the whole story is going to be at the top of the list, and that requires viewers and revenue, but it will always be weighed with whether any changes are too impactful to the story to be worth doing.

36 minutes ago, Jackdaw_Fool said:

No, I don't agree that the change would be minute.

 

Eta: I think you're basically saying the change would be minute because they are not going to delve into the details... Well yes, you can use that reasoning for literally anything.

No, that’s not what I’m saying.

The change impacts almost nothing about the world. So yes I think it’s minute.

But it’s not minute because I think they won’t delve into the details. I’m saying the minor details it changes are not important enough to mention in the TV show. They are that insignificant. I don’t think they were ever going to be quoting prophecies left and right. I don’t think the minor changes that would have happened in WT behavior are important. I don’t think it matters that a man or a woman could use callandor. The major problem for angsty Rand when it came to facing the DO as it relates to callandor is he didn’t trust anyone. I doubt he would have trusted an Asha’man either. On top of that as they learn men and women are stronger together and they need both saidin and saidar, that is enough reason to link with them when using callandor. Literally none of these details are the kind of thing that ends up in TV and film. Rand will link with Nynaeve and Moiraine because he trusts them and thinks he needs saidar to defeat the Dark One. Although, I suppose it would be better if Rand found out it has to be used with men and women linked due to the flaw. 

10 minutes ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

Yeah I never said there was evidence. But until it is mentioned, it doesn’t exist.

You are one of the people who seens to be pretty upset about the changes, in a topic where people are upset they might not have saidin and saidar. So it seemed that way. 

Also. you could complain about literally anything using this reasoning. The season is going to be 7 hours long or whatever. Worrying about lack of mentions when we have 6 mins of content is a pretty paranoid outlook. 

Just now, Jackdaw_Fool said:

Because there are no changes to even follow through with, right? That's what I don't agree with.

You’re basically not agreeing that TV show and movie adaptations of fantasy books are light on delving into the minute details, which is incorrect. And in fact I would bet that the changed they were willing to make were ones where they never would have covered the details in the first place, and that’s why they decided it was ok to change them. 

8 minutes ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

There have been 0 references to saidar or saidin.

It’s pretty surprising people think they’re going to nerd out on the details like words no non-reader knows and confuse the shit out of people. That said it’s possible they will leave it out. But it not being mentioned yet isn’t very solid evidence. 

6 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

Here's my current guess in terms of adding more representation.

 

They won't make Egwene the Dragon, of course. That's ridiculous.

However, Egwene might be gay.  Rand loves her still, she still expects to marry Rand. Two Rivers is remote and rural and you live the way you are expected to live, no matter what you personally feel.  Rand is a nice guy, a friend, of course she would end up with him.  However, over the course of the story, Egwene could realize (as she does in the books) that she doesn't love Rand in the same way he loves her.  This happens in the books, but the fact that Egwene is not attracted in that way to men could be an additional reason.

This gives us plenty of reason to remove Gawain completely, which people have wanted to do anyway.  Or they could keep him, but they come to a relationship similar to Lan and Moiraine, rather than a sexual relationship.  That'd be good too.  It gives LGBT representation in a major character with an actual coming out arc, but it doesn't change anything practical about the story at all.  

I don’t think Egwene will be gay. In fact I don’t want her to be gay or at least for that not to have anything to do with not being with Rand. I want her to choose the White Tower over Rand just because she wants to.

2 minutes ago, Jackdaw_Fool said:

Feasibility of translating and budgetary reasons aren't being discussed here so far by me... My reply is specifically concerning making changes only for commercial success and not having the integrity to follow through with the impact of those changes on the world.  I think it's uncommon for a good show to do that, and I'm at least hoping still for a good show.

There is nothing to suggest they didn’t follow theough on that.

1 hour ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

I suspect the terms saidar and saidin are gone.

I doubt it. There is no way in hell they were going to get into a detail like that in a trailer and confuse people even more with words they’ve never heard.