That was a joke. Sorry I didn't finish with lolololololol but I have told by my lawyer I run the risk of copyright infringement. And it was Tigs honesty that cut so deeply, misrepper!

Anyway, good night guys. See you in the morning.

I suppose for Turin it would come to if Darthe anywhere mentioned NK for the role in the lead up to the game. Because given the confusion, it does seem unlikely that he got that info from the wiki. Indeed if everyone else was thinking it was the wiki role, then it would have to Turin. Except, WIFOM, the real Condemner did not want to bring it up for exactly this reason. Seems a shame though if someone is outed due to a mod slip. Though I suppose there is nothing to be done about that. It is still WIFOM however you look at it. If that makes sense.

I think we have probably exhausted the benefits to had from discussing it further. I think we are now in the "you are misrepping me, no you are misrepping me" stage of the conversation.

That is a bizarrely tangential answer. You warned me what? That you aren't mafia? Thanks for the heads up. Noted.

This is getting weird. Surely unlikely for mafia is the definition of Town leaning? Are you not also saying the converse of likely for town? I never said he should have left me alone and this is the third time I have told you this. You are arguing this rather hard and misrepping what I'm saying. I stand by my point. You are talking about me melting down or not and ignoring the super weird way DPR was going after me which did happen, the meltdown did not. Statistics. The chances of any isolated thing happening is irrelevant, it is the relative chances of something happening compared to the other possibilities that is important. I'm not refusing anything and you have got one weird way of not defending people. You have not said a single thing that was not either in his favour or deflecting towards me. Really sketching me out. Why are you even engaging on this if you think it such rubbish? I can see zero reason but to defend DPR. I don't see that you are adding anything to my thoughts, just negating them. How is it you don't think that is defending?

The post Key was quoting literally had you post quoted in it. Or maybe the post before that hut it is a total misrep to claim I am ignoring what you said.

Hey Ithi asked, I answered and Key is going through it. I'm just trying to show WiM and conviction in my theories. Trying to low key bully me off you isn't a good look, even if you mean it well. You want me to stop discussing you'll need to tell the other players to stop asking about it, otherwise I'll get accused of being mafia for not answering them.

This is the narrative I've always heard. But I was just reading the letter on the frontpage of the site released for Tom, from TOR's birthday and this is Jordan's own words about pitching the Wheel of Time. I've heard a lot of contradictory stories, such as tEotW originally being almost a LOTR fanfic trying to get permission to write in the universe. Does anyone know why there are so many different stories going about?

Because DPR is at the bottom of everything! Or well all my reads hinge around him being mafia. So if he isn't, as I have pointed out elsewhere, I both suck at this game and I have no idea what is going on either. Which would be slightly disheartening. But I have my WiM back, and I'm going to see this to the bitter end.

So why argue lying about what happened is town leaning? I don't get you. It is definitely a weird thing. I don't see it would be weirder as mafia. I just literally said I'm not talking about avoiding. I'm saying why lie about factual, easily disproven facts, and refuse to back down when other people show proof targeting someone he has repeatedly called emo. What is his motivation for doing so? I don't get why you are focusing on my actions which didn't happen instead of his actions which did. You seem very invested, no? Or are you just spit balling possibilities? So you are talking about how unlikely these things are im talking about but not offering anything that is more likely. So even if something is unlikely, if it is the most likely explanation, that is significant, no? Without alternatives, it doesn't really matter how unlikely. He claims to be the hider. Should his actions then not be consistent with that? I think they are consistent with mafia. I don't get why you seem to be defending him so strongly. Am I misreading your intention?

Playing devil's advocate, he could have known a clarification would be forthcoming so preempted it so we would all say, look Turin definitely isn't the Condemner. Everything is subject to WIFOM, no? But it is probably easier to assume he was being straightforward.

Ithi was saying she thought Marsh had pretended to defend me. That is a misunderstanding. DPR took a post from Marsh which said roughly "in an effort to be nice, I made Turin and Ithi think I was defending Heavy" but only quoted the second part. Marsh obviously meant by accident, but DPR misquoted him and made it look like he had said he had done it on purpose. Which he didn't. Straight up misquoting. Wow, a double return breaks the quote. Hope formatting stays OK. What I mean is he takes an argument and plays both sides, antagonises them both, (while also fighting with Verb), accuses everyone of being mafia. I find that sus. I don't see how it could be an effective ploy to get NKd. No way of finding it. If I come across it I'll point it out sure. I'm not talking about avoiding, I'm talking about repeatedly lying about what happened over and over again. That is weird at best, but can you imagine how frustrating that is and how suspicious it is that he was only doing it to the most emo player? Why would he do that? Was absolutely easy to confirm the truth for himself. I have no idea what it gets him. A meltdown? Complete chaos in the thread? A no smoke without fire situation where everyone feels more sus of me afterwards without anything being proved. I notice you have not offered any explanation for why he would do this under any alignment especially as a claimed hider.

Have to agree with Nyn, if TurMarsh were the Condemner would this not be not in their interests but it would be in town's, so that seems like a good catch by Nyn.

Ithi already checked the timestamps. Turin posted before Darthe with the results of his PM, then Darthe confirmed itt.

@TigraineYeah sorry actually I missed you post completely. It must have been when I was also posting and I didn't scroll back up far enough to see your vote. Definitely I get your point, not sure if it is worth an elimination

Ah that slip. Sorry I was glazing over more talk about the Condemner. I thought the rules were that the mod would never confirm anything about PMs. So there is nothing sus about Turin claiming this unless his info was inaccurate. Or do you mean his PM means he is likely the Condemner? But if he was he would not need to pm Darthe... Though I suppose... Don't think this is very condemning (see what I did there?).

I feel everyone is perhaps missing an important point about the carnal goings on in dreams. The slight ambiguouty as to quite what is happening, who is in charge, how much influence does Lanfear have, how much Rand views it as a dream, how much is it really just like being in a physical place, means that we can all interpret what is happening as your headcanon is most comfortable with. One could say this is even excellent writing to give viewers this moral wriggle space. Though people that use this ambiguouty to imagine the most uncomfortable interpretation to them possible have me scratching my head. Why would you do that?

Sorry what was Turin's slip? Did I miss something?

That hurts 😭 I said your take that he was scummy while saving the cop claimee was weird. And I stand by that. And your claim it was how he did it that was important, strong disagree. And hindsight backs me up. And I'm whining? There is no need so brutally honest. You could tone it down a bit. And i'm not casing you I just finally got around to answer your claim I was misrepping you. I wasn't, I was paraphrasing and I absolutely stand by that paraphrasing as accurate. I admit you were/are high on my reads but that is massively influenced by your interactions with DPR that I was 100% sure was mafia, and then he claimed... So... *shrugs*

We're in harmony so I think we should be fine with pressing on.

Also can I draw attention to DPR's style of posting about the Condemner? He just kept quoting it and saying here it is. And then at one point he said it was the word random that bothered him and then at another point that it was that it was a NK. He was deliberately obtuse and vague to make people make their own take and then muddy the waters hugely by everyone talking at Cross purposes and each person reading it is not clear on what he was saying. That cannot be anything other than deliberate. Why would the hider do that? I don't have a clue.

Right, gone back to look in the horse's mouth. Still think this stinks. Hindsight of Rand being the Doc does not make it any better. You are totally overplaying the "obvious" nature of the hints. You are focusing on details to accuse the person that saved the cop claimee of being scummy ignoring that scummy would have strung them up, and definitely we know now that there was no collusion - one of the many situations suggested by DPR. I stand wholly by my summary of this being a totally weird take on the EoD. Your claim that I never read your posts makes no sense. I did not remember wrong.

My views based on DPR are that he misquoted Marsh and got him eliminated. Not the same as misunderstanding him. He accused me of having too much info despite me serving him with quotes proving this was not the case. He managed to aggravate and accuse of being scummy both Dice and Rand in their argument. He has clouded the water at every point, but also kept posting with absolutely certainty things that have happened. Then change his mind or deny it (like him absolutely sure Dice is false claiming, but then claiming that Heavy and Rand were the people claiming that Dice was mafia). He has been chaos incarnate, and has not read well what people have been posting, admitting for example he was not reading what Rand was posting in the middle of their argument, but then this ignorance of what they have said causes more confusion. See how long it took him to admit that he had made a mistake about the Condemner. He should have been there as soon as a posted a reply if he had somehow missed what had been discussed the day before, and we can see from Tigs that he has still left some people confused about what happened. And also why was he "pushing" (ie lying about happened) to such an emo player? Don't you think that is a bit calculated to trigger a meltdown? Why would the hider want one of those? I cannot see anyway he is not mafia. It just does not make any sense unless he is. But he isn't CCd. So I don't have a clue, I literally have no answer. But if he isn't a wolf why did he not immediately accept your receipts of the TMI thing? Why didn't he get it straight away? Why did he in the first place get pinged when I only repeated what Darthe had said the day before? How does being the hider answer any of those things? I don't have any answers but it makes more sense that he is mafia than hider. My vote can obviously still be moved, but I don't have any where better to put it.

Well thank the Light Zander doesn't post WoTs, this is so much more pleasant.