This is one of the things that bugs me about the Three Oaths - Jordan seems constantly confused about what they actually were. This means that for example if you go to Fandom, it repeatedly claims that there is a clause including the exemption of Darkfriends. This isn't true. Here is a direct quote of the Oaths that Moiraine swears, The show - according to Fandom at least - does not even include this exemption, and they are forbidden from using it as a weapon, except in defense. Which would explain why the Black Ajah was so much better at fighting, at least initially (I don't think a close inspection of the fight scenes probably would support this argument though). The thing is that as early as The Great Hunt, Sheriam is explaining that it does include Shadowspawn and Darkfriends, but only in paraphrasing, not direct quotes. Now I get Sheriam is Black Ajah, but it seems beyond credulity that she would go about lying about factual things like this novices when she so easily could be caught out. It seems to be inherent that Shadowspawn can be interpreted as "and Darkfriends" showing how plastic the Oaths are and how little can really be gained from arguing about their wording.

Thank you for your explanation, very kind and town-like of you. Though if course everything as always is subject to WIFOM. And just to clarify - if we assume that you are the mafia RB - just for the sake of the example - you claiming cop with 2 minutes left of the day ensured that a town player was eliminated, and gave you two nights to use your PR as even if the real cop CC's the next day they will be eliminated first? If following standard procedure? I just want to get the benefits of false claims clear in my head, not insinuating anything.

@Darthe can I ask if your wonderful scenes are indicative of gameplay? As in it really seems like in your story someone got NKd and then revived by the Doc. Can we take this as what happened or could it be due to hider or bpv?

So you are saying that if Dice is the wolfiest wolf of all time or lock clear town that is irrelevant? I think even if we are not going to eliminate him it still feels pretty important to resolve this issue (if possible) to help solve. Something about your logic is just setting me on edge. Cannot put a finger on it. Can I ask why did you bring up we should all post if I were cop, doctor etc., just to drop it again without further mention. Did DPR think it was a bad move? Too obvious? Something doesn't feel right. Did anyone else notice that in the night Turin pops up to set up an attack on Verb and then DPR takes over. Like a tag team. After a bit Turin comes back into the thread and walks back his pro-Dice arguments. Am I just paranoid?

Sure let's try 2.

Nonsense

No I meant the sisters Vandene and Adeleas, specifcally - I'm rubbish with names so I had to look them up. From The Path of Daggers, Here we can see that it is the laws of the Tower that are specific in deciding what constitutes a weapon or the limitations of use of the Power. This text also makes it difficult to see how Elaida could use the Power to punish Egwene, at least without breaking the law. But it is clear that Sisters can put people to the Question, with Power-fueled violence that is far more limited by in its scope by Tower law than the Three Oaths. It seems fairly clear to me that questioning and punishing, in the terms of the Aes Sedai, don't constitute weapons. It is entirely consistent that a legal execution would also not come under this category. "Use as a weapon" is a phrase that is nearly meaningless without context. It is like the Roman concept of violence. Caesar's last words were reportedly "What is this? Violence against Caesar?" (not "Et tu, Brutus?"). Caesar was indignant as though Roman society was to our language inherently violent - to the Romans, such things as gladiatorial games, warfare, executions, etc., were not violence, they were morally and socially sanctioned actions. Illegally stabbing someone in Rome (where all weapons were banned, except for the Praetorians) was a shocking and, moreover, rude act Caesar considered himself above.

It is also worth pointing out that civilisation is further complicated by the patriarchy. And I'm not meaning that all men are mean and horrible, but the inheritence of property through the male line. The more advanced your civilisation, the more property you have. In a patriarchal inherentence model, female fidelity becomes incredibly important to ensure property remains in the "right" hands. Laws were introduced to protect property, not liberty, I believe is the accepted truth in sociology. When we are looking at customs in ancient civilisations we are generally looking at the upper classes, not the peasantry or the lowest social orders. And I have certainly never seen anything to suggest that poor, ill-educated people in any age don't rut like bunnies. It is definitely an interesting theory, but I think it would be difficult to estimate the impact of STDs in a world with no antibiotics, no germ theory, no access to clean water etc etc. Anyone surviving childhood is going to be as tough as nails.

Can anyone point out the difference to me between "I don't want to be modkilled" Dice's answer and "I got answer from the mod" Dice's answer? I'm so dumb they look exactly the same to me.

This seems a bit sus (you can follow the quote to see full context). Dice was leading 5/4. Then Rand votes DPR (so now 4/4) then Verb UNVOTES as above in Dice's commentary. So the trains aren't tied and it had nothing to do with Verb. We're not talking about Zander here so why the issue basic arithmetic that is being used to throw shade on Verb?

Engine

Rave

Talk to him again before starting while the bonus is still active?

We come in peace, take us to your leader.

Thank you. At last, some appreciation.

Sure, we don't have to deal in absolutes - but I still think it is a smoking gun that DPR's "mistake" was a large contributer to a town miselimination, and Marsh pointed out he was wrong, and so did another player, but he brushed it off, and after the elimination he doubles down on it wasn't his fault.

Irrelevant point maybe but Sinister knows how to nest quotes without it becoming unreadable.

My point is that you (though thanks for at least noticing) are making it sound like a plausible wolf tactic of being overly critical. But Im saying he was definitely misrepping and 100% ignored people pointing out his "mistake". I don't see how it isn't a smoking gun for everyone (on town at least).

That isn't true. All his convoluted theorising all would come crashing down if I flipped town or he flipped mafia. The plausible reasons he would go to all that effort and potentially ping Key or anyone that was reading her as Town is that 1) he was play acting as town to get me miseliminated which is dumb as he could have just like Ithi said I had convinced him. All the rest of it was wasted effort that would only make him look more wolfy. Or 2) he was town and he really thought I was mafia. Nothing else made sense. You misrepped what he said, brushed off his reply and brushed off my reply and my vote on you. Bizarre that you are now claiming you couldn't have known you were making a genuine error. You knew what you were doing, I just don't get why no one else cares. Not even Marsh did.

Not a fan of Patch Adams then?

And after that I murdered my father with a pogo-stick. It is such a shame that no one can read anything I'm posting otherwise I could have saved you from your "mistake", DPR. But obviously me posting immediately after you was completely invisible just like my posts now. Marsh didn't make a mistake or slip, and his convoluted theorising proved he was Town, if you assume I'm Town, so you could have cleared him by eliminating me. Dont know why I'm bothering actually *sighs*

No it is not about the Oaths but it shows what gaps there are in them and the Aes Sedai lax approach to legality. When the Aes Sedai sisters are interrogating the Black Ajah member, pretty sure there were no ter'angreal used, only the Power. If memory serves correctly, at least.

But it is canon that literal torture - as long as it follows set rules (healing offered, doesn't continue past sun up/down) is not using it as a weapon. It doesn't seem a huge stretch to include a legally sanctioned execution as not being a weapon. While this is a dodgy point, it is entirely consistent with the books in this regard. Remember in the books they could stab her Warder to death just to make arresting her easier. Also the Oaths don't mention Dark friends another confusing point, especially regarding the Last Battle etc. The Three Oaths are a very awkward subject in book canon, I don't see that the show has done much worse. Possibly with the exception of the S2 finale, which seemed tenuous.

Shot yourselves in the foot, sorry, lol. Ah, got to love rude typos 🙂

I'm not sure I really like how "be more Zen Heavy" Turin is now using my wolf equity to incriminate another player. Like I said, if you are town and think I'm mafia you should have voted for me. Otherwise the only people benefitting from my wolf equity is the wolves. If you really think I'm mafia but decided it was better to leave me with a 66% chance of being the RB or Strongman, and go after someone else instead, it seems like you have rather shit yourselves in the foot. For the wolves keeping me in game makes sense, I'll confuse everything with WIFOM and I'm an easy out if you get to close to a wolf. Lenlo of Town made the right play since he suspects me, though still not convinced he wasn't just keeping the door open to miselimination if everything went wrong at EoD. DPR straight misrepresented Marsh, and set up his elimination and no one, including Marsh seems that bothered about it. Anyone want to explain to me why this smoking gun was ignored or why Marsh wasn't saved by people pointing out the "honest" mistake? I'm confuddled. Kinda disappointing to be still alive actually. No idea what you guys are up to or how to help you. But you need to trust me since you haven't eliminated me, not trusting me (as much as anyone else obviously) and leaving me in game only benefits the wolves.