What exactly am I meant to do with this question? This helps solve how? If you could compare the two bolded parts and tell me why you think I'm trying to hide anything. And there is no point going back over it. But you misread Marsh and then never bothered to listen to him about what he really meant. DPR quoted what Marsh said but cropped it to make it look like it said something else. And Marsh flipped town, he had no need to catch a slip or lie about it. But since you totally ignored the issue D1 I guess you aren't going to look into it now. And Marsh pretty much had to be town. You said yourself his token vote for Key helped make you decide to vote for him. It probably did him No favours with Key who also voted for him. But his whole reasoning about me flipping then him flipping and all these different permutations leading to Key - all of that tested on me flipping mafia and him flipping town. If either of those first flips had gone against what he was assuming all the rest was meaningless. So he had to think I was mafia, but he could only do that if he was town because if he was mafia he would know I was town. And I argued he was town at the time despite him voting for me, something I have mentioned several times despite being accused of trying to hide it in the most improbable way.

Wrapper

Cannot sleep

Glad I checked back after brushing my teeth. Well you got me. I haven't played exactly the same (with completely unspecified differences) in the first three games I've played. Eliminate me now, what shocking anti-town behaviour. DPR lied about Marsh said, blatantly. He lied about how I popped up with correct and unconfirmed info about the Condemner. But my vote was parked makes me a wolf, especially as I wasn't around for either DL as they have been in the middle of the night for me? And I pointed out that if town is going to be triggered by someone saying remember how wolfy Heavy was on D1, you needed to eliminate me before the wolves could use that to derail the discussion or trains at a later point. DPR helpfully gave me an Oscar for my reasoning but you all ignored me and now just before the start of D3 we have people saying "remember how wolfy Heavy was D1? Let's inexplicably vote for him now, suddenly his behaviour a week ago is much more compelling". Now maybe I'm wrong, but called in advance that this would only be to the wolves' advantage. So you should have helped Marsh eliminate me instead of killing him if you're just going to come back and follow his reasoning anyway. Then at least he might have survived. Anyway goodnight. I'm going to bed finally too.

This is emo? Sure. I'm finding this frustrating be cause I'm being attacked with bad reasoning but let's write that off by me being emo. I'm trying to answer your points, and I'm trying to not get frustrated, and I might be a little bit more successful in that if you weren't baiting me. Really glad I came back itt to have this little talk to clear up the points you had. I feel so much better for it. How was it for you?

Definitely the first - I'm not a 100% sure on the second, he was to busy tunneling Dice to try to eliminate me - I think he had a mafia read on me, but nowhere near certain. And as I said previously, I've never been eliminated - denying me my "I told you so" moment and prolonging my suffering as long as possible.

What? Jumping on every mention? I thought I was inactive? You are prodding Zander with leading questions, he is giving inaccurate answers back, but I'm the bad guy for pointing it out? Sure, sorry my bad. I didn't realise you were so against getting any input from me when forming your read. Please go ahead with your questions to Zander. Going to bed now so about to hit another shocking period of inactivity that can only be explained by my being mafia, just thought I'd highlight that for anyone else making their wtl list for tomorrow. Thanks for the info about forming reads when Town, it is that kind of support that keeps us new players keep coming back. How are we going to learn if people don't teach us?

I'm sure there were other things that pinged me but this is what I could find. Had trawl through seven pages of your posts before I even came to the EoD. Non-specific tone criticisms - bearing in mind you have read me wrong every game we have played. Inviting other players to join in your criticism. Also having a go at me for holding DPR accountable for lying about what Marsh said and hammering on about his non-existent "slip", but to Z it is unfair to treat him as any other voter. I mean, lying about players is the towniest town thing to do no? Apparently so if you call it a gambit.

Perhaps it is just me but there appears to be an implication in there about my activity now. But certainly you did not simply ask how active I was.

If you are still trying to pin wolf equity on me for D1, I don't like it. You should have voted for me then and cleared it up. Holding onto it for the rest of the game only makes it easier for the wolves to use me as a useful idiot for them to manipulate the rest of you and miseliminate me when it is most convenient for them. Not telling you how to play, just pointing out that having unresolvable suspicion of someone from day 1 onwards does not help town, and in my opinion, should not be allowed to fester. I don't know what is accurate about Turin's play - I'm talking about how it fits with my worldview, which has since been blown into irrelevant shards. I also pointed out how much of a stretch that feeling was even to me but I was trying to show what was going on inside my head. What I meant was Ithi was saying I'm playing my own way for example when Verb was asking her if she should not consider the possibility of Marsh being Town (in hindsight a rather relevant question). I was saying I'm playing my own way when Ithi was telling me I should not find things sus which I most certainly did. I think there is a meaningful difference there.

I've been the fourth most active or higher consistently in this game. I decided to take this Night off for a little bit of me time. This makes me, to Nyn and Z, "this" inactive. Glad at least I'm not being misrepped and definitely true there is nothing that Zander is saying that does not fit with the facts. Maybe others don't see it as it is not them he is inaccurately casing in preparation for miseliminating tomorrow, cannot say. @Tigraine pinning your WTL on me because I didn't run off like a good little boy for quotes for Zander when I clearly stated that once I had posted my list I would be signing off (a list that took a long time to make). I also clearly pointed out I was drinking so I think I was doing everyone a favour by not engaging at that point. I don't see why I should be under any obligation to do what Zander says or be voted for but sure if you feel that strongly about it

No, no I won't. Anything else I can help you with today?

Just to qualify - the different section are probably quite fluid. Have a lot of suspicion regarding everyone, difficult to accurately quantify it. But I have tried.

Well I said I would do a list but I have been at work and other things like that that are completely out of character for me. Cracked open a beer so I'll probably sign off after so I don't inflict a drunk hairy Scotsman on you, DL is too late for me anyway, and I don't think anything will happen to convince me to change my vote. One incredibly depressing point is that should I be wrong on DPR I may as well throw the rest of the list in the bin as I'm so convinced on his alignment every other player has been judged on how they interact with him or seem to collude in achieving goals or have weird possible distancing exchanges. Tentative Town: Nynaeve - seems to be making the most sense, when she can stop with the sarcky one liners. Don't feel a great urgency about solving or hunting, more observing, prodding and commenting. Key - started strong, but tailed off. Some of her reasoning has seemed a bit lame. Unfortunately RL seems to have swallowed her while most of the drama has been going on. Did not approve of her on Marsh's train. Verbal - Seems to be making sense, agree mostly with him about DPR, in his arguments with players like Turin he seems to be have at worst a reasonable position. Nothing has pinged me about his play. Null: Ed - Flashes of insight, seems to make sense when posting. Humourous, confrontational style seems slightly counter productive given apparently RL-enforced low activity. Missing voting completely is never a good look regardless of your ability to be online at DL. Turin - Did not like him buttering me up on D1, especially not then him using Verb not going after me as a reason to case Verb. But in general makes sense, though I don't like his lists, they sketch me out as if they are just accurate enough not to be suspicious, but wrong enough to through a spanner in the works, and everytime it seems either swinging to town or mafia for me he seems to walk back the arguments to leave himself more neutral. Almost feels like precision bombing - hitting very specific targets and then backing off. But even for me I recognise that is reaching a bit. Would not go on a date with on a night with a full moon: Rand - WIM. But seems like too much going on about the same WIFOM. Perhaps just cannot stop responding - can relate. But feels frantic, distractionary (that is tots a word) and while I have a hard time thinking he is working with DPR I cannot avoid the violence even if it is coming from a Town pov. Zandlo - Lenlo went for low hanging fruit and not much else qualify if for poor reasons or town reasons. Zander has been pretty null, but enough of his comments have rubbed me the wrong way - like he is deliberately misunderstanding or oversimplifying to state wolf-friendly propaganda. Not active enough to have a real read, though I did not like that Lenlo's vote on me could have been an opening for a train on someone with wolf equity at DL if everything went wrong for our furry friends. Would shoot with silver bullets: Ithi - Decided on a target in the opening exchanges of D1 and then pretty much ignored the rest of the day. Has backed DPR repeatedly. Has often shut down discussion by asserting she will play her own way as if that is not a nothing burger response to anything regarding content. Accused my post about nothing of being a carefully crafted post about nothing so therefore AI. My flabber is still gasted. Tigraine - Makes far too many pro-DPR arguments for my liking. Reasoning that a player saving the unCCd cop is scummy stands out in a way that I don't think can be washed away. But deliberate? Also did not like the DPR vote immediately after what felt like a change in DPR's tone. Tinfoil moment but felt like DPR had accepted his wolf equity was past the point of no return and therefore Tig jumped on the bus. Think I'm mixing metaphors there. Dice - Feels like Town. Sounds like Town. But... immediately accuses players of saving him of being wolves. Claims with only 2 minutes to go. Thinks saying in the last hour "you should not be voting for me" should have been significant rather than laughed at. Massively downplays the advantages to the wolves to false claim, which as far as I can see far outweigh the benefits to the real cop on D1 claiming. That could be my inexperience, but "only buys me a day or so" seems such an understatement to be an outright lie. Seemed to work with DPR at EoD and Night, but then was distanced by DPR with his Dice is definitely scum (though actually it was Rand and Heavy that said that, not the innocent pirate). Totally sketched out by this slot. No idea really. I guess at least I don't need to make a decision until more flips happen, thank the Light. As above but repeatedly. Reload and shoot again. Use a wooden stake and bedeck in garlic. DPR - Anti-town, deflections, lies, kill it, kill it with fire. Have gone in depth about my suspicions elsewhere. If I'm wrong, I dunno, this presumably is not a game I'm any good at then. I'd apologise for the WoT but then I would lying. Suck it up peeps.

Duck

Street

Don't worry, there are only 61 pages...

Why in the name of the wee man did I even ask? Thanks but that didn't help my headache or resolve anything either lol. Can we not just boil it all down to he might be, he might not be?

How? Me? I admit during the night when it seemed to be a Verb and Rand showdown with Dice and DPR about how the two players that saved Dice were somehow scummy for it, it seemed very likely that Dice and DPR were wolves and it was a false claim. But since Dice has been much more Townie and DPR came out with Dice is obviously mafia while still arguing with Rand while actually agreeing with him on Dice. Which has left me scratching my head with all the WIFOM. So much I don't like about Dice's claim but I suppose that is always going to go with this territory - a claim that cannot be sensibly CCd immediately. Complete mindf**k, and a completely new situation for me.

Inspector

Absolutely you can vote who want you want for, I did not mean to imply otherwise at all. Just a bit frstrating to see you start a new one on someone I have townish when there is already one on someone I have wolfish. Just checking we couldn't get your desire for a competing train (as you did have Tig 3p-lean) to better mesh with my reads and having actually a competing train as opposed to a whole bunch of single votes. I do think Rand's instance on the spotlight and his fixation on Dice (or at least the rehashing of the same WIFOM over and over again) is sus, but I feel it is more town tunneling than misdirection.

Kid

Squeals Did Nyra just speak? Did we know she could? Happy dance I'm down for trusting her personally. I didn't hear anything, lol

@Turin Turambar There already is a competing train on Tig. Why are you starting a new one? Isn't that a little unhelpful at this point?

Like concentrating on players that misrep other unto death? My case is hardly solely based tone, it is based on how seamlessly your tone dovetails with your actions. As I say, I'm as convinced as I think I'll ever be. Which doesn't mean all it takes is one post to make me rethink everything - but that uncertainty just throws even more into focus your certainty that you know which players are making sense, which are being Wolfy, that you know exactly what went down at night, etc. It is all part of the feeling I'm getting from you.