You cannot have it both ways. Either the changes are bad writing, so the feminism motivation you assign to it does not matter, or the changes are not bad, so the feminism motivation you assign to it does not matter. I don't get the "tell" thing, if I had to guess I'd say it was just Nynaeve annoying Lan, but I have no idea at all. The point I'm trying to make is that many people, like you, are arguing the writing is bad because it is feminist motivated, and that good changes are bad because they are feminist, so ergo feminism is bad and bad for the writing and bad for the plot. Meh, don't feel I am explaining this well. But what I mean is that the motivation for changes or features is completely different issue to how they are implemented, but many tie them together so that no matter what they can bash the showrunner. While ignoring Mat's mother, Logain's greater role, or anything that does not fit into this narrative of anti-feminsim.

I have to say that I have hard time but equating the American accent with modern, which is probably dumb, but there it is. Like in The Eagle, where they have the Britons with British accents and the Romans with American accents (even for British actors like Mark Strong). And it should give a clear idea of two different accents, yet... just did not seem right somehow. And yet I often don't notice American accents spread throughout a cast, or at least it does not jar. Then again, I grew up thinking Scottie was Scottish despite being Scottish myself. Maybe there is simply something wrong with my ears...

I think actually people get irked about how threatened some people act because a female character is doing well. I mean just because Logain is a woman, she gets to kill a very powerful Aes Sedai and her strength outshines everyone til Nynaeve. And the show really concentrates on her noble motivations, her people skills and her ability, in a way that the books do not. Why is that such a problem? Just because she is a woman that kicking ass on screen? Your explanations only explain certain things that you make a big deal about, and you are really quiet about anything does not fit your narrative.

My point is that it is not as simple as cutting a scene here, or merging two characters there. You also have to at least consider adding new content that can achieve the same goals more succinctly. You also have the issue that there might two scenes or plotlines that you want to keep and you have to have something that bridges them. What I mean is that additions are not by definition bad, it depends on how much plot carrying weight they assume, what they bring visually, what they do to the tone, etc.,. and of course, extremely important is how entertaining it is. For example, I am rewatching season 1 mostly as I really don't get the whole Steppin interlude. It seems to derail Lan's arc, rather than complementing it, and seems unnecessary. But even if my opinion is right, that does not mean such an addition has to be a bad thing. Abridging the story does not just mean cutting things out. And apparently lots of people really liked the Steppin bit, and at the end of the day, that is the whole point.

Dual-bonding, I could not possibly comment. Momentary amnesia, though that said, I have not read the final books very often. So it is a bit hazy. Some good examples. Very well put. About the bubble on a raken's head, I think that has to do with that you have to catch it, if that makes sense. Like why throw fireballs, that slowly arc through the sky, rather than applying the weave directly? I think distance has a lot to do with it, the fireball you create nearby and send on its way, which I think would be less fatiguing than weaving hundreds of meters away. Also you have to direct the weaves so they touch what they want, so touching the orifices of a moving flying lizard must take some dexterity which could be again, more fatiguing, like not just weight lifting, but throwing darts with those weights hanging from your wrist. I guess that gives some weight to the prevalence of lightening (where you make the conditions, and then guide it with minimal effort) and fireballs (low effort ranged attacks). But Androl was very, gah, spoilers. Meh. But still, it would have nice to see channelers out-thinking each other more often, in ways slightly more satisfying that Nynaeve hitting Moghedien in the face with the male a'dam, though to be fair, that was true to character. And magic is just a bugger, it is not rational. Very difficult to make it make sense, and I think overall, WoT does a pretty good job.

No, no you don't. But you do have to think of ways that you can condense story lines, how you can have visual sequences that convey written information, how you can flesh out character motivations and to best let your abridged story flow. This means that there will be changes, and it is not a question of the changes being intrinsically bad or good, it is a question of what they bring or take away. Too many present changes as being bad per se whereas there are going to be changes, period. Especially season 1, in the book we were left guessing what was going on. Why were the trollocs there? What was the real story about the Aes Sedai? Lots of features were brought in, first the unreliable narrator of the folk tales, and even Thom claiming the Dragon tried to break the Dark One out of his prison. Then you learn about the OP through Egwene, then about the Dragon through stories about Logain, and so on, leaving a first time reader to organically learn the background. In the show, you could not have that kind of mystery about what the show was about. It had to be in the media, discussed and publicized. And that meant there had to be wholesale changes. And I think personally that it is very reassuring how well the story has been brought back on track, rather than let it run off on changes from season 1. But that is just me, apparently. Edit: like for instance, looks like to me everyone can see weaves in the show, because the viewer can see them. It would confusing to try and show character's POV and that they cannot see somethings that others can which is easy in books. So that would mean you could not have Rand channeling in front of anyone like he did in the books with Bela, and that could have implications for the story, but unless it is really important, it would take too much dialogue to explain that not all characters can see the snazzy special effects. And that kind of change can have big implications, especially taken in context with other changes and that is why whole sections could be changed for example. Not sure exactly what point I was trying to make with the edit, but meh, who cares.

That said, it is also a dramatic visual scene, that does not involve a long drawn out explanation of the May poles, and the agenda of Beltine, etc., that the books easily have time for. It also seems to be an analogy to embracing the source, perhaps similar to Rand learning the Flame and the Void from Tam that made him particularly adept at learning to seize the source, so are Two Rivers women by coming from a nutcase society that hurls them into raging white water rivers (you can see when Egwene finally turns up at the inn that they are all Christian Slater in the Prince of Thieves "Blow me, she made it"), are particularly adept at embracing the source. So it is a visually compelling set up, that does not need a lot dialogue, that foreshadows of the OP, and provides an interesting juxtaposition and change of pace from the lovey-dovey "we are always with you" dialogue, when they forget to add, "except for now when we chuck you in the river". So I don't think whether it is a good idea or not really comes into it. That is what poetic license is for.

Thank you for the welcome, Elgee 🙂 I have managed to find my way to the Book discussion forum, where I can discuss fine points of the story and the insane theories that we think up for no other reason the books simply are not complex enough. And my way to the Series discussion forums, where I have learnt that they are actually a vehicle for a world view that wants to crush my masculinity. Or something, I was a bit hazy on the details, but thankfully now I am forewarned and can wear some kind of protective underwear when watching episode 6. As I am sure you can imagine, that is a weight off my mind. Think of what might have happened otherwise! The social clubs all look a little bit scary to a newcomer like myself. I'm sure in time I'll venture deeper, the pull I think will be too strong. Just like when you are standing there with a metal fork in your hand, looking at the toaster with a piece of bread stuck in it. You know you shouldn't, that nothing good is going to come of it, but your going to ram it in there and have a good shoogle about anyway. That analogy was actually slightly more graphic than I had intended. That poor toaster. And on a first meeting as well. I fear I am painting myself in unfavourable light. And mixing metaphors for good measure. I'm sure everyone will be as welcoming in the other parts of the website. Well, until I start talking about toasters, anyway...

Yes, at first due to fear of Saidin he is refusing the void,

Actually thinking about it, So definitely WAFO. Will be interesting. Yeah, for Mat, it would make sense being trained by the best quarter staff wielder in the Two Rivers, who has been a close friend of Tam. Perrin is more of an inner rage fueled character, Against other troops perhaps it would fly, but the Aiel are meant to be nearly superhuman. Power creep, what can you do, huh?

And remember Liandrin was editing the mail to the folks from EF so that Mat was feeling left out, as if he had been abandoned for his abandonment. So of course he has been feeling distanced from everyone. I cannot imagine that it would take much for Mat to find his inner hero

In my experience, visual mediums tend to avoid this. It is too confusing for viewers, gives issues with actors etc. Just like Selene looks exactly like Lanfear, I would imagine that most characters will continue to look the same. Of course it could be that being reborn by the Great Lord will be so significant that they will do it, with the suspense of who are these characters, but my guess is no. Perhaps a Quantum Leap moment of looking in the mirror, and saying "Oh, boy" with perhaps an interim actor while it is unknown, and then he will just use the Mirrors of Mist. I'd say it is just one of the rules of TV, that characters need to be instantly recognisable. Of course, we'll have to WAFO.

Are they not in some rural backwater in the mountains? There may be only one reasonable escape route on horse back, and if you are looking for someone, checking the stables seems a reasonable thing to do whether you know they have gone there or not.

Absolutely, Tam taught him it for archery, Lan brings it up for weapon use in general, iirc, to all the EF boys. But he did need it to channel, as it is part of the process of seizing the source. However, the fact that he had already mastered the Oneness means that we did not have to watch him fumble about again and again like some Novice with her exercises, but could leap straight into him not being able to control it.

Is difficult for me to say, I have no idea what happens in each book. I even find extremely awkward to work out the initialisms used for the book titles on the forum (yes, even though the forum explains them, I've only been here a week, somethings will take time). The beginning of the Aiel story through tDR and tSR, is great and I think probably is the part of the story that carries much of the rest of the plot. An awful lot of the plotlines are ultimately disappointing taken on their own, imo, it is them taken together that makes the book the masterpiece it is. Though if I must choose, I would go for the tEotW. The subtle way the story is spun out, really drew me in, with the background being laid down by unreliable narration, and the emphasis on the breaking and the past, that for at least (maybe I am slow) not apparent what the main plot line was, and your understanding evolves organically as you progress. I think it may have been stronger if the book had kept some of this haziness about the past, the Aes Sedai etc., really seemed to have far too much knowledge about the past, even down to biographical information about the Forsaken. It could have made the world seem more real, and would be a greater contrast to sources of knowledge directly out of the AoL, or the surviving Ogier accounts, etc. Especially as this should have been a chosen one to save the world trope, I am still amazed by it, how such a story line can be presented subtly. Thinking about it, this is something that the show could never do - it had to layout the essence in a press release to sell it to potential viewers, the plot boiled down to one line, hence the whoisit of season 1, and possibly why season 1 so far seems so much weaker than season 2.

I would have said it was simply that without the oneness, he was just not as good, just as if he was shooting arrows. He became one with sword, with Turak, calmed his nerves and found peace. I thought the book was quite explicit, but that is the great thing about books is that the words are only the seed of what happens in your mind.

Here is me not remembering well, I thought he was being completely outclassed by Turak because he refused to enter the void, but when he did he put up a much better fight, "forcing Turak to frown in concentration". I wonder if I made that quote up 🙂 So yes, while he was not blademaster quality yet, he was signposting his way to become one. In show, unless they are just going to ignore it, the only way I can think of him gaining skill with the sword is by channeling his inner LTT, but that would also seem to be a very problematic thing, unless they go whole hog which it seems far to early for.

This is not true. Here again you are using circular arguments that the reason for changes are bad, and the changes are bad for the reasons. Book Mat was awful in book 1. He is a naughty school boy, pouring scorn on everyone at every chance. He want to leave EF because he does not want to milk his Dad's cows. (And if you notice, he has more sisters than appears to have later on, amateurish writing or a forgivable error?) He is obviously completely unprepared for outside the village, but is completely whipped into submission by Moiraine, not even so much as talking to a single person about leaving because she said so. Forgets to think about a quarterstaff, despite being one of the best warriors in the whole of the Westlands with one. Completely two dimensional, with all his later development completely lacking. Did not drink, smoke or gamble, yet overnight these became his favourite pastimes. And what about his mother, you highlight his father, which matches your prechosen narrative, but don't mention his mother, which doesn't. Why don't you mention the way he looks after his sisters, and protects them, and his mother to an extant while obviously being conflicted about her, and the way she so coldly accuses him of being like his Dad. You completely ignore where a female character has been torn down much more thoroughly than Abel, and you ignore the positive traits in Mat, and refuse to reflect on the much deeper character that Mat now has. All because you have a narrative in your head, fueled by your anti-feminism (which you protect with your "True Scotsman" logical fallacy, to pretend that you are pro-feminist). Everything bad about the show is because the showrunner is a feminist, all changes are bad due to their motivation and the motivation is bad due to the changes. It is tragic. And you are completely welcome to your views, but you don't need the lack of respect and the personal attacks.

But that is not what is happening, people are peddling hate. It is sad to see. I love these books, the characters have been my friends since before I was an adult. I personally find it tragic that WoT is used as vehicle to attack people based on their world views. None of your points in any way contradict my assertion that we should be able to discuss the books and the show with respect for each other and respect for the author and the showrunners, even when we disagree with them. This is not what I am seeing, not even on these forums, let alone something like Twitter (damn you WoT, I have never used Twitter until now, only lurking but still, everyone knows where that leads to). I am seeing hostility and hate towards sections of our community, and it deeply saddens me. Obviously, I am not making any inroads into your opinion so I'll stop, feel free to message me should you wish to discuss it further - doing so on these forums seems unhelpful. Edit: and I missed your rant against feminism. Which highlights exactly what I am saying. Your criticism has nothing to do with the show, it is all about your views on feminism that your own words show do not understand and you have demonized it. Through extension, the show is demonic, any changes are demonic, anyone who likes it are demon worshippers. There is no discussion, everything is black and white and of course people are hurling abuse and insults at such demonic people. But they are just people who think differently, and are people that you will not be respectful towards. But please feel free to message me if you want to discuss it further.

Absolutely false. A show with "injected politics" should be judged on the final product, not what you think about the politics. Trying to create something should mean that you are exposed to the vitriol that is being thrown about. Having political views, or a worldview is something that we all have, and this is not a bad thing, nor should we be attacked for it. If one character is favoured over another, you don't need to analyze the reason why, you should be looking at how it works. Discussing the show should only touch on politics as they are shown in the show, not on what is going on around it. And with the source there are some issues with it, like the obsession with breasts and corporal punishment, the sapphic love nest that is the White Tower's novice quarters, and probably way more than I have even noticed, so wanting to change some of the book is not sacrilege, it is a choice. And we should be discussing what we think of the choices made, not attacking the reasons that we assume they are being made for or attacking the person that has made them.

From what I have seen, there has been precious little respect from some segments of the community, none of which could called warranted. And the show should be judged on its final form, not on the politics of the showrunner. And given that the original author's philosophies seem to revolve around boobs and spankings, and the books are great anyway, I think there is room in the show for other philosophies too. But anyway, I digress, and sorry for derailing the discussion.

I am so far behind on watching the show that I only got around to watching the Origin extras last night. And given that they have already used the warder trainees fighting with quarterstaff against sword, and have the exact dialogue after the encounter, I would guess there is zero chance that Mat and bros would meet up like in the book. Could be in a different setting, maybe even two different cocky swordsmen, perhaps to show off the ashandarei,

Not beyond reproach does not equate to deserving of personal attacks. I find it worrisome as to how much criticism is directed at the showrunner personally and his supposed worldview, instead of discussing the show itself. It does this community no favours, and makes me hesitant about feeling as if I belong here. Whatever your views are, respect for your fellow human beings should not only apply if they agree with you.

I think that would be pure speculation, as there is nothing that I can think of in the books that would offer any confirmation or contradiction to the theory. It also would not really make any difference if a thread was momentarily used for a prebirth hero, I cannot see any consequences one way or the other.

I cannot think of many. That was one of the nice things about last books was the cunning ways that Gateways were used to great effect. But for me it was always a little bit annoying how the One Power was nearly always used as weapon of blunt force, with pure strength being the only required skill. Especially given how important a role channeling exhaustion is given later in the books, you would think that channeling smarter, not harder would have been more valued. One thing that always stood out for me is when channelers are facing a cavalry charge, why did they not just weave air into an obstacle at about waist height and watch the horses go down hard, breaking legs, rolling over their riders. Surely that would be simpler and less straining than fireballs, lightening and explosions? I think their lessons in Defense against the Dark Arts were lacking, looks like holding onto teachers in that subject is a pretty universal thing. Were any moments where you guys felt that the One Power could have been used better, or conversely where it was used cunningly and I am just being a forgetful old sod being unable to remember it?