Morning Ithi. I'm having trouble forming reads in this game. Bizarrely enough I'm feeling good about most people rather than suspicious. Like Dice I'm a bit sketchy on the Sinister/Teph bussing. That doesn't seem to make any sense as a play, and I seems to me they were interacting as they were the two most active people at the time. Plus photoshopping wolves in someone's garden must the most terrible way of throwing shade I can think of. @Tigraine no need to apologise for thinking I was mafia. Honestly, it's a common misconception, lol.

Well I'm off to bed. Though nice to see another player weigh in on the new player issue. So can we now draw a line under it and just treat each player like they are a player?

You'd think we should start at 1 with the trial of beginning but I suppose we should ask Nyra?

Let's get to hunting wolves then. And that will go easier if everyone is suspected and everyone's intuition and reasoning is listened to. This is a long day. Things will get heated and to point as DL approaches. We need to sound each other out so it would be great if everyone could contribute.

Yeah I am not going to answer that.

BS. The premise is new players are stupid and cannot find their own rear ends with both hands. An unknown quantity does not mean illogical or poor play. And wolves can only easily jump on new players if you normalise jumping on new players as town behaviour. Wolves taking advantage of you is part of the game. Having everyone treat you like a second class player because you are new should not be, yet currently is. I will absolutely die on this hill. This should not be any part of the game, it is insane that you are arguing that new players should be treated differently.

I am most definitely sure.

Guys if you are really saying that only established players deserve respect I think you need to rethink your biases against new players. I cannot believe this is even an issue. I'm not ever going to let someone call new players a danger to themselves and those around them without saying something so maybe just stop making or supporting that analogy, however it was meant?

So instead of them being treated with respect and them exiting on D1 due to their own play (obviously not the people voting for them) it is better to insult them and treat them like children that are in danger of disrupting your game? Hard disagree.

Ok thanks for clearing that up. I still don't think the mental image of someone cutting their own body parts off a accurately sums up an unknown quantity, but thanks for the clarification.

You forgot inconsistent tone. That is always a favourite regarding me. But your reasoning is my logic gives you bad vibes? OK. Can't say I find that particularly convincing but I suppose I'm biased. I don't get this "let's steer the conversation to eliminations" is the same as giving reads argument. Words literally mean things. If you mean reads, say reads. If you mean wtl, use that. Why use different concepts interchangeably?

Yes but a new player has intelligence, intuition, and problem solving all at their disposal. Categorizing them as a danger to themselves and to others, is pretty far from the mark and fairly insulting. Plus in this context I only know Teph hasn't played here, I have no idea about any experience elsewhere. Though asking would probably clear that up, but I personally don't think that experience is quite what some seem to think it is in this game.

Which emotional attachments? Honestly don't get what you mean. But anyway I don't like how much noise we are making. I think words are important. They have meaning. Asking someone for their top mafia read is completely different for asking how they are willing to eliminate. Not in content but in tone. Tone is important. It would be good to hear from other people about their thought processes.

That is a spectacularly inappropriate metaphor for mafia in my opinion, Sinister.

Meditate?

Lol, I see your unnecessarily argumentative comment wasn't perceptive but just projection. Or are you really arguing that wtl lists should be spurious and whimsical? Honest question. @DPR do you really not see the difference between a reads list and a wtl list? Especially in the context of this early in the game?

Sorry that was directwd at DPR, over estimated my ability to get in before anyone else 🙂

So then we are agreed that asking/pressurising players for a wtl isn't town behaviour? The point at the bottom of all this is that multiple people thought that your interaction with Teph was a little odd. I don't think there is more to it than that but I do feel you are mudsying the waters a bit, or maybe we both are, so if we could just agree that wtl should have grounded reasons we can let it drop.

Could you explain how this isn't a wolf saying "no wolves are under suspicion, so let's just railroad someone randomly even if you don't think they're mafia"? Of course reads are good, in lists or post by post. But forced wtls are only going to muddy the waters, IMHO. We should be aiming to eliminate a wolf, not being resigned to not having a chance to. If people are giving wtls because they have to while not having mafia leans, I don't see how that is going to tell us anything. If people don't have reasons for voting there is no way to differentiate a mistake from a deliberate miselimination. I mean what is to stop a wolf from voting for whoever and then saying DPR made me? At least if they stay undecided we will have a better chance of reading if they are genuinely undecided and it will make any wolf moves more obvious.

No what I was saying is I can give a reads list like I did above, but I don't have a wte list as I don't feel that strongly about anyone. Asking for a wte this early in the game I find troubling, but not enough to break out the torches and pitchforks. And to clarify, I find it troubling not because I don't agree with this playstyle but because it opens the door to starting a train without anyone being responsible. The person saying wte player x is set up by someone just asking a question. So you can have a serious amount of shade thrown, maybe even a train started but no one has full responsibility. It is stretching yes, no where near a smoking gun but it troubles me still.

LD means lie detector, a power role so if there is one, or even the chance there is one, it can make people wary of outright telling obvious lies. We don't know if there is one, but is it AI if someone refuses to state they are town openly?

I see what you mean but it presupposes that the reads list contains enough mafia leans to run up or start a train on. That is what I meant.

It is just a neutral word. I can see that in some situations "lynch" would be a charged word and after reading about it online I also realised how difficult it would be to stop using it if it made someone uncomfortable. Plus as my name is literally Mr Lynch, I decided to attempt to simply not to use the word. As a personal decision. Same difference about would like to/willing, but I accept the correction, my bad.

Wtl - would like to lynch (I don't use the L-word, so you can also substitute E for elimination. WIFOM - wine in front of me, the princess bride, basically the never ending circle of is it what it appears, a bluff, a double bluff, etc. I know that you know that I know that you know...

3? Or are we leaning totally on Nyra for all this?