On 9/8/2023 at 11:38 PM, A Memory Of Why said:

Balsy

Thank you for this, ishy will now be forever “ballsy” in my own personal head canon. Much more fun 😂

On 9/9/2023 at 9:41 PM, ForsakenPotato said:

I feel like I'm supposed to believe Liandrin is some kind of master manipulator

I love your post and insights! For some reason I felt the need to nitpick just for the eff of it….liandrin in the books did manage to get the girls to follow her through the ways and then be delivered to the seanchan. In addition to some other more subtle orchestrating of events. Just sayin

i most wholeheartedly can relate with your reluctance to dive into the forums after watching the new episodes. I have from the start loved the books and I also love the show. Blasphemy!! Good thing no one knows who I am or where I live 😬

 

11 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

Knock it off with the “fake-out” deaths

Well, to be fair, the books had their fair share of fake out deaths too. Like, a lot. 
 

I kid, I hear what you’re saying 😊

18 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

I don't think her son is a channeler; he's just old.

 

I really wanted Show!Liandrin to be around the same age as Alanna, Moiraine, and Siuan because then her and Moiraine being "Pillowfriends" would have a ready explanation.

Yeah, you are correct. I realize now that he would have died and worse a long time ago if his condition was caused by being able to channel. 

I’m with you in terms of the ages of the women you mentioned. Do you have any particular reasons why you don’t think they are contemporaries age wise? I’m not quite sure how to determine exactly how old they are, but moiraine has an old younger sister and liandrin has an old son. Alanna and siuan so far are harder to gauge but they at least seem to have been in a similar timeline to the other two in terms of their progression in the tower?

 I have only read new spring once so far, but next time I read I will definitely be paying attention to that aspect. Not that it will necessarily pertain to the show, but I’m still curious. 

On 9/7/2023 at 5:36 AM, DigificWriter said:

him physically waste away,

Could it be the wasting effect of being a male channeler?

Reading this thread triggered a couple of questions, not necessarily on topic but I wanted to express them anyway. First regarding liandrin and her (and the forces she represents) intentions with nyneave…I was wondering if it might be similar to attacks from the shadow in the books, which gave me the impression that it was basically a test of some sort to see what they’re up against. Meaning that if they actually managed to kill the target, that would be great, but learning how their adversaries react and getting an idea of their strength is the greater motive. The other thing that occurred to me based on liandrins elderly son is the nature of healing as a whole. We know that the most skilled healers can significantly turn a dire situation into a miraculous outcome. But what does that mean for the elderly and conditions of old age? Clearly the general population has a limited life span, and at some point in the aging process the properties of healing no longer apply otherwise we’d see regular folks who have the luxury of access to aes sedai healers living much longer lives. Or am I missing something?

Oh! Thanks guys. I misconstrued the unfolding of the fain pursuit. 

1 hour ago, Scarloc99 said:

It’s been so long since that first read I can’t really remember but I am pretty sure I expected Rand to balefire them back to life, RJ didn’t kill good guys off. 

Wow, my hats off to you for possessing such spot on intuition from the start! I’m impressed 

14 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

But also in the books she feels guilty about it and isn't a bad person.

I wasn’t entirely sure if verin may have influenced her to bond Rand by force in the books

4 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

No issue with the fakeout deaths,

Just curious what was your first reaction to the fakeout deaths of mat and avi (and others) when Rand is battling rahvin? I remember when I read it the first time how disoriented I felt going from the shock of believing these characters to be dead and then realizing they weren’t. Or was I the only sucker who believed them dead on first read?

Yes good point. In the books it’s emphasized that her viewings are never wrong. It’s sometimes only in hindsight that the correct interpretation becomes evident, however. 

22 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

so I watched that scene multiple times…it’s another “clever” fake out. If you watch closely she doesn’t actually see Matt stab Rand with the dagger (the face of the person is turned away), she does see Matt lower Rand to the ground. They’re making you think it’s Matt, it’s really Fain. 
 

I’m confident that what they’re doing is showing you that just like with Aes Sedai telling the truth, Min’s viewings aren’t infallible even though they always happen (i.e what she sees isn’t always what she thinks she sees). 

Ohhhhhh! Thanks for your response and for bringing that to my attention. I just watched that episode for the second time and still missed it. I was already going to watch the first 3 episodes again after this second watch but now I’m looking forward to applying this observation to it. Much appreciated!

Does anyone know what moiraine means to do by going back to the WT? She was exiled from the tower but is evidently planning on going to tar valon anyway. How restrictive is the oath of exile and what is her intention? Can she stroll up to the tower, knock on the door, and as long as she doesn’t go inside then it’s all good? Where is siuan and does moiraine believe she is there? I’m guessing she’s going to enter the city and remain incognito but still not sure why she herself needs to go there. Maybe so she will be able to receive reports from verin on her research of the prophecies more quickly? It’s moiraine, so she probably has many reasons and most of them known only to herself. Anyone know what made her decide to go there? It’s probably obvious but I didn’t pick up on it 

17 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

So to get us started it seems the main questions have been about. 

 

1) Moraine, does she go through the door and get written off for a couple of seasons to be saved in season 7 and return to Rand in season 8, or, does that whole storyline change. 

2) the Dagger and the nature of Fains evil and what changing that does to the events involving cleansing the taint and shadar logath. 

3) Verin is she a darkfriend and will she be hunting the from the inside, or is she not a darkfriend in the show. For that matter, who is a darkfriend that was in the books and who might not be? 

Thank you for initiating and facilitating this thread! I’m relieved that we have a safe space to discuss without having to navigate the issue of spoilers. I don’t even know how much what I know is so ingrained in my perspective that I can’t separate what is a spoiler and what isn’t. Really appreciate it!

excellent questions to get the thread started  

moiraine is so full of areas to speculate on how the show will approach her arc. I have a hard time imagining her being killed off early on, and kinda feel like they will fast track the apparent death and resurrection rather than get rid of her entirely or leave her out for an extended period of time. On the other hand I could see the show runners looking for their shock opportunity (Ned stark and the red wedding to use GOT as an example) and deciding to use moiraine to achieve it. 
 

im also very curious about how the dagger, fain, and mat for that matter will play out 

I also wonder about verin but more generally if we will see some characters that are or aren’t Darkfriends in the books be different in the show. 

curious how the madness attributed to saidin might be presented differently. Logain says something along the lines of it’s not actually pure madness, and we do see some elements of this in the books where the voice of LTT isn’t total nonsense. Of course hearing voices no one else can hear isn’t exactly sane, but the voices in this case have some significance. 
 

will Alanna forcibly bond lan instead of Rand? Moiraine mentions something to that effect 

A few things off the top of my head but there will be so many more things to unpack so thanks again for providing the safe thread

I kinda feel like the Perrin, elyas, and wolf storyline is just at the beginning of being introduced and will be developed more and more as we go along. 
 

regarding the seanchan and how some fans feel that it’s too soon and/or too obvious in the way that the connection of some characters to the dark one is portrayed…in book 2 we see liandrin (who we know by now is a Darkfriend) deliver the girls to suroth…so for me, at least, that element was introduced as early in the books as the show. Yes maybe more subtle, but still present. 
 

I love the idea that ishy is not necessarily literally visible in his presence, but maybe we’re seeing his presence and influence visually since it’s more evident on screen than trying to incorporate it the way it was done in the books. I’m on board with either scenario, but there’s something about the possibility that we are seeing how much influence he has over the minds of people by placing him in the scene as though he really is or might as well be there in the flesh. 
 

As for moiraine it will be interesting to see how that unfolds. Lots of possible routes the show might take. I don’t have any specific predictions or preferences but I think that the need to massively condense the source material and move along the plots will make a big difference whatever happens. Could be resolved within one season depending on how swiftly the progression is handled. 

Didn’t we see pain pull back his hood in the Darkfriend scene or am I mistaken? I thought he showed himself which connects him to the ones the group is pursuing, plus the little girl who appears to have escaped looked like the same one to me, and we see a shot of what I believe is the same clothing with a bird or something on one of the dead people as we saw in the first scene of the girl under the table seeing the different identifying features of the attendants. 
 

one other thing I can’t figure out is when Perrin has the vision (the one based on rands in the books) it almost looks like Ingtar is part of the vision and only after his appearance in that same spot did it initially on my first watch made me assume we’re actually only seeing him in the present moment. On rewatch it looks to me more like he’s part of the vision. 

Forgive me if this was discussed previously, admittedly I haven’t had time to read every post in the thread. Do we think mins viewing of mat stabbing Rand means that he will be the one to deliver the fateful wound instead of pain? Presumably being reunited with the blade and possessed by it in some way? 

Do we know where siuan is at this point? Also curious if any hints regarding other forsaken lurking about have been made that I may have missed, aside from the 2 I’m sure of? I hope that was vague enough to not be a spoiler. One more thing I have to mention, imo wow to the portrayal of ishy. I’m loving it. Also, I would be lost without my dependence on turning on subtitles/cc. I didn’t know who many characters were without them…masema for one. 

this is neither here nor there but just a random thought since you all are doing a fine job of laying out the significant elements and opinions regarding them.
 

 I was thinking about the nyneave test in the show and it struck me that it seems to me like it might be the most true to book unfolding of a plot we’ve seen so far. I’m not saying it’s exact, clearly it’s not, just that I can’t think of anything else up until that point that was as recognizable in its translation and portrayal from page to screen. I personally don’t need the show to be more identical to the books and have enjoyed them as they are…but I was so accustomed to the interpretation being less literal that until that happened I didn’t expect to see anything on screen be so close to the way it was written in the books. 

 

I’m loving it so far but because so many reasons have already been stated I’m going to mention just a couple of things that rewatching made me even more intrigued. When domon tells moiraine that the cuendillar is from cairhien, the moondial shattered 2 months ago or something, I didn’t catch it first time but on rewatch it hit me that it could be a Lanfear reference. Also the child who escaped from the Perrin vision looked like the girl from the first scene so it seems like that was the Darkfriend group they are tracking. I’m sure you all noticed that but for me rewatching really makes me more able to catch those things. I’m enjoying the elements of the show that are subtlety introduced that book fans will be able to recognize. 

On 9/2/2023 at 7:27 AM, DigificWriter said:

 

They weren't dead, but the show did skip over their being found and healed.

Yeah I knew they weren’t actually dead, but I thought it looked like they were in dire enough condition to require a mention of some sort to explain how they were healed in time when the women who could channel and heal them were all occupied at the time. Oh well, it all worked out!

4 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

The only possible way for anyone to like him is to completely redo his character to make him less whiny and annoying.

Heard. Word. But IMHO I don’t need to like the m*****f****r to appreciate his right to exist….just need some humanity to relate to 

10 hours ago, Sabio said:

there was no reason to have them journey to White

I hear what you’re saying, and I hope you have a sense of humor, but forgive me for being a see you next Tuesday because I can’t help myself, …there was clearly not NO reason according to the folks who actually had the balls to give it a go 

20 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

I went in hopeful and came out deflated.  CGI and overall visuals were improved over S1.  I understand the need for changes in the adaptation and even like some.  But too many I don't like, understand, or agree with.  The show is definitely not for me.

• Nynaeve training with the warders for 5 months - shouldn't she be working on her block?
• Nynaeve open rudeness to sisters with no punishment
• Lan - I have no problem with Daniel's acting or fitness (beast!), but he looks like he's had his sword for two days not his entire life
• Moiraine - a 'broken' Aes Sedai plays cat-and-mouse with a Fade before killing it with a dagger
• Domon - silly, but the moustache was an unnecessary change.  Very small, but they add up
• Fade fight - though two have already been killed, whenever the remaining Fades have an advantage they pose and loom rather than finishing the kill

I hope those that are enjoying the show continue to do so.  It is the books for me.  Wish I could love both...

Thanks for sharing your experience regarding season two. I was hoping you would. 

I’m going way off topic here to get back on topic and simply want to comment on my thoughts about S2E1.  I’m still on board with the show, I don’t take the changes personally. Having said that, plus the fact that I’ve only watched the first episode, here is my main observations. Did I miss something or did loial and co go from real dead in the last episode to overtly quite not dead in this episode with no courtesy explanation? If it’s addressed in later episodes, then please disregard my confusion. Also it’s hard to reconcile my next question within the many opinions based on the premise that moiraine is stilled. However, imo, unless I missed the mark I thought we were seeing her attempt to access the OP on more than one occasion. Did I misinterpret? I thought she kept trying to access the OP which doesn’t make sense if someone knows they’ve been stilled. 

19 hours ago, DojoToad said:

My assumption was that since the bowl accessed saidin, that men were involved in creation of the bowl.

Ohhhh the creation of the bowl!!! My brain misfired and thought you were referring to men being somehow involved in its use in story rather than involvement in its creation. My bad, thanks for clarifying.