I’m not gonna read this again 

19 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I presume they have some sort of guidelines, and it is not entirely left down to the whims of individuals 🙂 

I am not an expert but I would hazard a guess that this relates to the historical situation where the Netherlands did not have surnames pretty late in the day for that kind of thing. Until Napoleon (actually, probably the French Revolutionary Republic, so slightly before Napoleon, who would later install his brother as King) took over here in the name of liberté fraternaté and er, croissants, iirc, Dutch people had names like Jaap Jansen (son of Jan, in other words). The most famous coffee brand here is Douwe Egberts, named after one of the most famous owners of the company, though it was actually started by his father, Egbert Douwes. The efficient French republic was having none of this however and insisted everyone have a surname. The Dutch people to a great extent thought that this would just be passing thing and before you know it, it would be back to business as usual. However, given the benefits to the gathering of taxes when everyone has proper names and can be traced, the system never was gotten rid of. Which left a lot of Dutch people with the names they chose in protest or as a joke, such as Mr. Pisspot or other more obscene or vulgar names. I think this has given the Dutch people the collective idea that really, you just cannot trust people to choose names for themselves.

Though I am not Dutch, maybe I am misunderstanding the culture 🙂

Wow, that’s truly fascinating and I appreciate the education you provided! Thank you 😊 Now I’m curious how far it must have gone to require government intervention…imagine living in that time when the amount of people who had taken or given names that were extreme enough necessitated legislation. How colorful it would be to wave at people and say “hello Mr pisspot!” “Good day dick head!”  Fantastic!

On 9/15/2023 at 7:56 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I have never heard of anyone naming their kids after WoT, I had two Guinea Pigs called Esme and Nanny after Granny Esmerelda Weatherwax and Nanny Gytha Ogg. Closest I have gotten.

 

Though I bet someone has, I met a guy online in a game once that when he heard that I was from Scotland says, completely deadpan, "Cool, one of my kids is called that", yup he had three kids called Scotland, Iceland and Norway. Seemed completely sincere. 

 

One of the things I like about the Netherlands is that when you name your kids it has to be approved by the government and they can totally refuse accept the registration on grounds of stupidity. No one born here gets called Peachielalagoogles. It is literally the law.

Whaaa??!?? The Netherlands government has to approve of the naming of children? Fascinating. I’m imagining some government employee with a red stamp that says”approved” or “denied” having a bad day or in a silly mood just having a field day 

On 9/15/2023 at 11:29 PM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

must admit I did generally come down on the feeling that I did not pick it up well enough or the scene did not quite come off as planned, but you could look it that it was definitely meant to be completely confusing until you saw the events as they developed and then it would make sense.

I think you just described perfectly how I feel pretty much constantly when reading the books 😂 I’m always certain it’s just me and I’m slow and/or entirely blind in terms of picking up on the intricacies and intrigue and pieces of the puzzle and how they fit together but I’m captivated by the series and reread it anyway even though I feel like everyone else is in on the intuitively obvious scenarios that I have yet to grasp 

On 9/12/2023 at 4:13 PM, swollymammoth said:

I think the foreshadowing is the difference. A fake-out death is bad when the character just kinda turns out not to be dead. RJ set up the balefire thing, so when Mat came back to life, it was actually an earned bit of payoff rather than an instance where the author tried to just bait the audience with something cheap. 

Excellent forsights and observations of the build up and foreshadowing! I still didn’t catch it on my first read 

11 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

If it annoyed you, then it could be a sign that it was overused. I think it is a great way to describe a fight between masters of the sword, but that does not mean that it cannot be used too often, or in situations where it detracts from the action instead of adding to it. 

 

I cannot say it ever felt too much like that to me (but perhaps I was making exceptions due to my admiration of the writing mechanic), not in the way that, for instance, I was ready to throw the book out the window if there was another character who was physically perfect except for an over-abundance of bosom, or if a main female character borrowed clothes that were tight around chest and loose around the hips, as they are obviously all so anatomically bizarre that they need specially tailored clothes. 

I appreciate your open minded response to my reaction to that aspect of the writing. 
 

as for all the focus on bosom…that always threw me off too! For just one example, why do we need to know the are females folding their arms beneath their breasts? We know how people fold their arms! The amount of bosom exposed in the way women dressed is frequently described. Don’t even get me started on the rampant spanking going on all over the damn place 😂

I’m definitely trying to figure some stuff out regarding the bond as well. Admittedly I may be operating on a flawed assumption from the start, but I had the impression that the bond and the emphasis on its affects established a deep and intrinsic connection that once in place it was essentially like the bonded parties were completely and mutually transparent for the most part. Like when lan tells Tomas they didn’t need to verbally communicate thanks to the bond. So the idea that moiraine and lan have been together and cultivated their bond for 20+ years yet in all that time he wasn’t aware of her main purpose and motives has me baffled. I’m referring to Alanna’s statement that he didn’t know her “before” and other indicators that he’s not aware of her intentions and still in the dark about her and who she is in many ways. I will admit though that I am aware that I may be seriously misunderstanding what is actually going on between them on screen. 

3 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I think actually the sword forms are actually a method of describing the fighting without the having to go into the minutiae of the movements. I don't know how much RJ knew about sword-fighting, and it could be tricky to keep describing the actions of blademasters in a way that would be convincing to anyone. The forms give an easy way of describing the fight that is full of imagery, and is very succinct. 

 

Boar rushes down the mountain meets Parting the silk, says nothing concrete but the conjures up a lot of feeling and for me at least translates well to a vague feeling of a very involved sword fight. It also emphasizes that the combatants are highly trained, performing exact movements, and also stresses the chess-like aspect beyond strength and reactions. It is a mechanic I think is very well executed to convey a lot of imagery into the readers mind with few words and being vague enough that it is generated from within the reader so never can feel out of place. 

 

Of course, apparently it doesn't work for everyone 😄

Absolutely! You have beautifully illustrated the significance of incorporating sword craft in such a meaningful way and the exquisite artistry involved in order to embed it so authentically into the story and world building. I completely get it…which is why I was so hesitant to admit that it didn’t appeal to me 😂 it’s kinda like when people want to talk to me about sports and I’m like…meh

Following along the topic of Mat’s supernatural luck ability…I always felt there were moments where he had extraordinary lucky breaks that he was clearly certain had nothing to do with his “luck” but just happened to go his way. The main example I can remember is when he bets a significant amount of his money on the horse race with olver, but beyond this there are numerous times where he manages to come out of encounters where the odds were stacked against him and the circumstances should have not worked in his favor. The overall point or observation I’m attempting to convey is that Mat seems to attribute his luck as only activated in certain ways, but in my opinion it seems to permeate his life and outcomes much more than he realizes. On the other hand, maybe those other things are due to his being teveren and not intrinsically connected to the luck gift?

19 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

A heavy half moon blade balanced by a thick spike.

 

I was wondering if I was the only one that was affected by such phrases so often repeated, maybe I was being unfair and just sensitive about sections that possibly weren't even that similar. 

 

But no, apparently not.

Haha, nope, you’re not the only one! I always had that same thought until I joined this forum not all that long ago. One example for me personally that I’m hesitant to admit because I don’t think anyone would agree, but what the hell…the points in the books that were saturated with descriptors of the sword forms during training but especially in battle are always distracting and irritating to me when I read them. I’m sure for most readers it enhances their immersion into the story, but for me it served the opposite purpose. I personally don’t need to know every minute detail of how each sword form could be described metaphorically! Ok, with that off my chest, I feel the need to clarify that I say this out of love and I love this series and the world of WOT, so it only adds to my enjoyment and devotion when I have gripes or annoyances. 

14 hours ago, Cipher said:

Devoted married people have more sex and better sexual satisfaction than single people.

Really?? In all seriousness. Is this a proven fact? That’s fascinating if it’s been somehow scientifically studied and proven. Especially considering the subjective nature of classifying marriages in this way narrowing the subject down to “devoted married people”. A lot of devoted married people have open relationships. A lot of devoted married people don’t have sex, at least after some time has passed. 

I’m curious about this too. For some unknown reason I figured the sky battle from the books wasn’t gonna happen as a sky battle on screen. The eventual gathering of key characters culminating in some climactic event was still something I expected or at least anticipated including the incorporation of horn stuff. As mentioned by @Kaleb verin  mentioned the prophecy about a battle in the sky so now I’m wondering how that will look and really interested to see what the show does with it and how it handles everything for the 4 episodes that are left in remainder of the season. Also wondering if/how the capture in TGH by the suldam of one of the main characters might play out. A lot of ground to cover in 4 episodes!

11 hours ago, Gary Again said:

I like how Ishy and the dark are making people doubt their power. Fain started by commenting that Perrin was chasing the shadow when he picked up his axe starting the whole axe/hammer plot, Ishy continued it this season by saying that the more Perrin embraced the wolf the more he belonged to the shadow. Ishy seems to have convinced Min that her ability is a curse and is apparently torturing her dreams.

 

Liandrin was trying to convince Mat he wasn't a good friend and wasn't there for his friends. Even with Selene and Rand I felt like she was really dragging out his torture when he thought she was shocked and devastated that he was channeling she was enjoying making him feel like a monster.

 

Then you had Machin Shin laying into Loial telling him that he's a hypocrite because books are made of trees (sorry this one was a meme but I thought it was hilarious). I think it fits the betrayer of hope and is really effective reason for the characters to resist their powers which a lot of them do in the early books.

 

 

I absolutely agree with your observations. I felt compelled to add some of my additional thoughts. The dark forces are exceptionally skilled at knowing and zeroing in on the fears and internal struggles and triggers of each individual. For example, machin chin was directed in a very personal and specific way to each character. This is how the dark ones hook people and gain control by planting seeds of doubt and what gives them such power and influence over people. They focus in on and then exploit and magnify the deepest fears specific to the individual. Every character is affected in a unique and personal way based on their already existing, deep and troubling internal conflicts. For example Perrin feels conflicted with the wolf connection and struggles with fear of violence and ishy reinforces this by saying that his wolf nature is in fact dark and by acknowledging that therefore Perrin himself must accept that his true nature is also dark. Min and her inherent ability of having visions is presented by ishy as a curse implying that this natural expression from her basic nature is wrong. Liandrin honing in on mats struggle with his actions that appears to be abandoning his friends and subsequently magnifying his fear that they’ve abandoned him. Rands fear of not being able to control his power and hurting those around him has also been exploited by ishy and lanfear. The list of examples goes on and on, but my basic point is that the representatives of the dark forces have a masterfully strategic and intricately well thought out and implemented design for exposing and amplifying the deepest and most troubling aspects buried within each individual, thereby ensuring at the least significant influence over the “target’s” psyche and at the highest level complete control. 

3 minutes ago, Guire said:

I am wondering if this is just tv writer mystery box stuff.  or show Mo and Siuan were in a happy public relationship.  they witnessed the dragon foretelling, then manufactured a huge public betrayel/break up to cover their mission. So to Alanna this could be a foundational change in Moraines life.  Why she has stayed away from tower and might challenge Siuan's rule.  but to Lan who knows truth there is something else Alanna is referencing or he has to play along to keep up secret.

Yes, agreed! Thanks for articulating it better than I did.
 

Some of my confusion comes from the plot development focused on how significant and powerful the warder bond is, and the impact of its loss. So initially the sense of distance between lan and moiraine since the bond was no longer intact (which is also reflected in the books) made more sense to me. Now we see show moiraine has been periodically masking the bond and keeping many secrets from lan from the start, implying that he never knew her as much as he thought and wasn’t truly bonded to her the way he believed and described to Tomas in terms of the bond eliminating the need for communicating verbally. I’m curious to see if this is lan committing to protecting moiraine or if he actually is in the dark. 

23 minutes ago, Guire said:

I always assumed Liandrin was instructor that beat her.  I do think that Liandrin does have feelings for Mo and Nyn in show world.  She is a very self centered power hungry person who believes her view of the world and men as the problem is the correct view.  She needs powerful allies to achieve her goals and seems to want allies/tools in her journey.  But at this level of narcissism and this far into her life any person or bond is subservient to gaining power because she is the one who knows how to use it.  Basically she is 3/4 of the worlds politicians and upper business elite.

Interesting insights. So in your view, is liandrins narcissism/self interest entirely complete or when you say that you think she does have feelings for moiraine and nyn in show that you think she’s capable of experiencing genuine feelings for others, at least on some level? And what do you make of her emotional reactions in other scenarios such as her son?  Do you buy it or do you suspect that she has no capacity for authentic displays of emotion and rather is putting on a performance based on her own personal motivations? I’ve heard convincing opinions on both sides but I’m not certain yet of the current intent of her character 

7 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

the Liandrin / 3 girls action in this episode is that it was daft to knock them all out

Is that action by liandrin a concrete reveal of her book nature in show or is it still supposed to be uncertain what her motives are?

Could the party crash scene be partially explained by Lanfear using some form of compulsion or mind control to manufacture and manipulate the people’s acceptance of their presence with the OP somehow? Or is that too much of a stretch?

A scene I wondered about was when Alanna tells lan, regarding moiraine, something along the lines of he didn’t know her “before” and that something “happened to her” about 20 years earlier that changed her. Side note, he asks if she was happy before and Alanna says she doesn’t know if moiraine was ever happy. Anyway, I can only think of one event that happened 20 years ago that I assumed lan knew about. Was there something else that happened at the same time that lan had no awareness of or was my assumption that lan was more informed of moiraines motives and their basis than I thought?

Regarding the liandrin face caress, if I was on the receiving end of such a thing from anyone besides my SO or a beloved family member, I’d be too shocked, confused and uncomfortable to respond. But I’m an introvert and not sophisticated in the ways of manipulation and scheming and power moves. 

I’m so baffled by the thought that liandrin ever engaged in the necessary act to result in procreation 

I acknowledge that I’m on my own island here but I’m ok with the forsaken being imprisoned at different locations in the show. Admittedly due to my limited imagination of how that could look on screen. Just gradual awakenings in one location might be harder to pull off on screen than each forsaken being somewhat simultaneously awakened in a unique way and location drawing more emphasis to the specific character. I recognize that the majority of fans have envisioned a well thought out way to focus on the awakenings in a superior way, and I’m here for it, just giving voice to my minority of one.

ps…I’m also ok with the efficient visual portrayal of the nature of the forsaken and their immortality. Ok, I’ve said too much. 

I’m clearly on board with going along for the ride that the show has been taking us on…but I do have confusion about how the AS know things so currently and how the mail system is so efficient. How did Alanna know moiraine needed them etc

On 9/7/2023 at 12:33 PM, Cipher said:

Be cool to see her practicing curses

And experimenting with the effects of terangreal…especially a red rod shaped one 😂

14 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I don't think the arches accelerate time like that.

I think it was more of a dream like experience, where nyn felt like years passed when in reality she just skipped scenes.

I don't think it will be ever expanded upon, though

I got the sense that it was similar to portal stones in the books or the ways, where time passes differently depending on which world you’re experiencing. Meaning that the experiencer feels the passage of time in a real way but it’s all relative and individual perspective doesn’t influence the fabric of the whole timeline. Just my take on it, and like you said it may not be expounded upon. As with certain elements of book lore, we can speculate but not always know everything. My main observation was that Nyneave experienced it as absolutely real and lasting for years of her experience. 

Not on current topic but regarding the episode, I have to just say….when nyneave says regarding her experience in the arches “I was in there for years” and clearing up the possibility that it was more of a dream like experience, it really struck me. Holy eff! She has lived years in her awareness of a life that actually happened and suddenly has to adjust to returning to a reality and world that she had probably lost all memory of. That’s mind blowing. 

On 9/1/2023 at 8:35 PM, Guire said:

On youtube season 2 episode 4 promo trailer at minute :54, it appears to be Mat on left side of screen leading charge against Seanchan across sea fort parapet.  The group he is leading appears blurred with different clothing, armor, and weapons.  Heroes of Horn sighting? No obvious Rand or Mat.

 

I am going to rewatch episodes a few more times before any other comments.  Not enough benadryl to stop itch from current nits over running me.

I also caught a glimpse of something in one of the promos that made me think it was the heroes of the horn

36 minutes ago, Ralph said:

interesting, because I think exactly the opposite. the point is that we are supposed to think it has been broken - that is why he could not sense the Fades. but Alanna etc are not aware Moiraine has been stilled/shielded. we are supposed to be wondering if he really is like Stepin just is covering it up better or is more in control, or whether really not. I am very curious to see the denouement of this

I’m curious as well. Verin and co seem to believe that moiraine is stilled, using that assumption to explain her state of mind to lan, but imo Alanna and co isn’t clear how they perceive the situation. At first when ep4 began I thought they had bonded lan. Moiraine herself has a deep understanding of the impact of the loss of access to the op in the way she relates to logain. It seems like as far as she’s aware/concerned, she doesn’t consider it a likely possibility that she isn’t cut off permanently. She does seem to know the difference between being stilled and being apparently cut off beyond the ability to currently know how to reverse it….as I see it based on her continual attempts to channel and her continued identification as aes sedai