I need a favor!

[Ironeyes]

Hello mafia players! I’m writing an essay about irony and sincerity in one of my college classes, and I’m hoping to use mafia as an exhibit. Would you all mind helping me create that exhibit?

 

My argument (in part) states that changing one’s opinions in response to changing evidence displays sincerity, and as an example I want to show how that kind of behavior is a town tell in mafia. This is with the background assumption that townies are inherently sincere. So if anyone could give a good explanation of how changing one’s position constitutes sincere (town) game play I’d really appreciate it! Or even if more than one person wants to weigh in, that’s even better. 

[Verbal32]

What if a scum player faked that sincerity?  Would you then read them as town? (that would be their intent)

[randomh3r0]

There is an inherent issue with creating logical arguments and being sincere when you're mafia, and it's the same issue that comes up when you are lying about anything. Liars (or scum in this case) must pick the lie they're going to tell and create logic around it - town (or honest people) use available logic to make their decisions. When the facts / logic change, so can their opinions. When a person lies in the real world, they also have "tells" - they do things they think give credence to their lie, such as constant eye contact, in the hopes this sells it because it's generally accepted as fact that you will avoid eye contact when lying. Unfortunately this isn't accurate, and someone doing this constantly can be a strong indicator they're selling you snake oil. 

Online mafia games completely remove the physical "tells", meaning you have to go for implied / verbal ones. A player who flip-flops or jumps on bandwagons could seem like a "scummy" player, so actual mafia players might over-correct and refuse to jump on any train too soon. The unfortunate result of this is that it shows they're not necessarily reacting to the ongoing logic against said player(s). 

Great mafia players utilize gambits in order to win over town votes. They might decide early on to case one of their own to gain loyalty, they might even use this gambit to pretend it confirms a role such as Cop. But coming from a place of knowledge can be spotted if you come from the innocent "town" side, because you just follow the logic. You don't KNOW who anyone but yourself is, you only have the gameplay and the results to go on. This leads to focussing on anything newly revealed instead of things from pages ago that mafia might be relying on. 

Ultimately, this is a game of logic, deceit and protection. In an odd twist from the real world, the "bad" guys in mafia are the only ones with people they know must be protected to win. "Good" guys, or town, simply know there are bad guys out there to be found, whereas mafia aligned players know specifically who they need to keep to win. This, combined with the knowledge that they themselves are bad, makes it exceedingly difficult to present cases against good players based in real, actual logic. Skilled mafia players find ways to twist words and cases rather than follow anything empirical or logical. 

The best part about mafia games is how both sides carry double-edged swords. Players who are mafia know who all the bad guys are, but being one themselves they must work extra smart and hard to avoid suspicion. Town aligned players know who no one is for certain, but can play with honesty and go along with the facts or logic presented to them, regardless of where it leads. You can fake sincerity of comments, but it's exponentially more difficult to fake when you have the burden of actual knowledge of people's alignments. 

[randomh3r0]

I know that's coming from a relative newbie, but hopefully it helps?

[Verbal32]

wall of text crits you for 1,000,000 damage

 

you are incapacitated

[Ironeyes]

I know that's coming from a relative newbie, but hopefully it helps?

LOL I'll tell you once I manage to read it...

[Nolder]

Sincerity is good...but it can be faked by a good player.

Also, mafia can be genuinely sincere at times even when it is against their own interests to do so (at that moment) such as admitting a case against a teammate is very solid.

Sincerity is a way of earning trust essentially but trust can be given to the wrong people.

Better yet you want to analyze peoples actions in order to judge their true intent.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is your argument for your essay can be right but it is also less reliable than you want it to be in this game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I successfully faked sincerity during this game, particularly in this Day phase that started here

 

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111-Futuramafia-Concluded&p=2053717234&viewfull=1#post2053717234

 

Culminating around this point.

 

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111-Futuramafia-Concluded&p=2053717323&viewfull=1#post2053717323

 

I appealed to sincerity. Fakely.

 

Should be useful to you regardless.

[Nynaeve]

wall of text crits you for 1,000,000 damage

 

you are incapacitated

 

This is exactly why I don't want to be seen in public with you, fyi.

[Ironeyes]

Sweet, that helps a lot. Truth be told, in this essay I would count fake sincerity as ironism, since it consists of creating a divide between what you say and what you think.

[Lenlo]

 

wall of text crits you for 1,000,000 damage

 

you are incapacitated

 

This is exactly why I don't want to be seen in public with you, fyi.

 

The fact that hes only incapacitated means it hasnt done more than 1.5 times his max hp. He has yet to exceed his negative threshold or he would be dead, atleats by 5E rules. Its rather impressive.

[Eldrick4221]

There is an inherent issue with creating logical arguments and being sincere when you're mafia, and it's the same issue that comes up when you are lying about anything.

 

Mafia is also able to use the logic around them too. I do it all the time. I avoid lying as much as I can. I point out reasons for me to think someone is scum regardless of my alignment.

 

Opinions changing due to evidence doesn't need to be faked as scum. The only time it matters is when the evidence in question is about a teammate.

 

Edit: Literally only read the first sentence before I replied. It's what I replied to, so I snipped the rest.

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

wall of text crits you for 1,000,000 damage

 

you are incapacitated

This is exactly why I don't want to be seen in public with you, fyi.

The fact that hes only incapacitated means it hasnt done more than 1.5 times his max hp. He has yet to exceed his negative threshold or he would be dead, atleats by 5E rules. Its rather impressive.

You're forgot to account for his damage reduction. Forum posting comes with a 900,000 DR against text damage.

[Verbal32]

See, now you guys made it dorky.

[Eldrick4221]

See, now you guys made it dorky.

You say that like you didn't contribute.

 

 

Edit: Stupid autocorrect