Tarmon Gaidon [Advanced Mafia] Game Over

[Darthe]

Dead air dead villager. These consensus reads are stale as hell, and id be saying so regardless of position.

[Zander?]

 

Also wrt Zander - Zander gonna Zander ldo Reading him from outside this slot, he's very focused on Kat, but he's not ignoring everything else. And to be fair, the exploitation thing goes both ways - it's also very easy for a wolf caught in the fury of TOWNZANDERWIM to exploit the fact that he's 'tunneling'. The difference is really in whether his excitement/tunnel is genuine. I guarantee you here it is. The boy has WIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMMM 

 

 

CassGOATENFPMUSICTWIN you are the best human being ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shad_]

Dead air dead villager. These consensus reads are stale as hell, and id be saying so regardless of position.

I would say I've been continually reevaluating players and coming up with roughly the same conclusions

[Darthe]

Yeah youre fine shad, though inarguably wrong somewhere

[Zander?]

So anyway I could find zero games in which Kat and Snow played together except Beyond the Wall, and in that game she does not comment on him. She quotes him for a joke at some point, no further mention.

 

sooooooooo

 

Kat

 

Can you explain to me how you always disagree with Snow and think he's scum when the two of you play together?

 

Is this some sort of off-site thing or :???:

 

So only one game where she doesnt comment on him?

 

 

Nights like this are why I need to quit Mafia.

 

I'll regret this tomorrow.

 

Feel a decent bit more comfortable lynching Kat after the last half hour or so though. <_<

 

You will never quit Mafia so dont kid yourself.

 

Prolly

 

Like how much more comfortable???

 

 

 

Right so you're joking and this doesn't have anything to do with this game in particular. Got you. In any case I just skimmed Dice's posts and nothing stands out as him targeting anyone except for a weird vote on Pral so I think that it's likely that one of the consensus town reads is just wrong. This hilariously gives Darthe some equity imo because of what he said in the QT and I don't think Pral would want to kill Dice after bringing up the fact that Dice's vote on him was weird as he did in the QT.

 

My ability to forget things I've read 30 seconds ago is amazing.

 

But can you point to what specifically you were thinking about here?

 

"Im not in a gpod pace to really cast suspicions with any authority, but knowing my alignment and that of believer I feel fairly confident that in some level town is being duped here. It could be one big player, it could be two. I dont mean to fearmonger by this, simply to recognize that I doubt the town has this game on lock from where I stand."

 

 

That post and the post before it. He was the one that stated that we need to go back and reevaluate town consensus players and I reached that conclusion too albeit from a different train of thought. My thought is that one of them should have been NK'd last night if we'd been as accurate. Why would they leave us alive?? 

 

 

I guess part of it depends on IF Maf can shoot across QT's?

 

If they can then Darthe/Kat still make a lot of sense.

 

If not then someone in T/A/R last night shot DIce.

 

Believer and Nolder are dead

 

Marsh claimed a x1 Vig and a little something else.

 

Hallia's claimed Doc

 

I KNOW me and Cass are Town

 

Dice prolly didnt shoot himself again imo.

 

 

D3 Votecount

 

 

Kat (2): Darthe, Tiinker

 

Shad (1): Zass

 

 

Not Voting (6): Hallia, Ironeyes, Kat, Pral, Shad_, WiFi

 

 

oh ya...lolololololol

 

[v] unvote [/v]

 

[v] Kat [/v]

[Zander?]

I was frustrated in the QT because the Believer kill happened quite similar to the Dice kill in the BM game (not as worse but the same feeling). There was no way Believer was scum based on what happened D1.  He was on 1 vote (by Dice) when I went to sleep and lynched by the time the day ended. All the votes on him happened in the last hour and it was a heist.

 

Which is why I think there is scum definitely in :

 

Believer (5): Darthe, Kat, Zass, Dice, WiFi 

 

Zander unvoted but I guess was too close to deadline or BFG missed it. Dice was 3rd party. That leaves kat/darthe/wifi.

 

Wifi's late vote was bad but then she was talking about Believer as scum from the start of the day. It is not like she changed her stance suddenly.

 

It would leave Kat/Darthe as the likely suspect and I was sure this was pretty much the case even on D2. Should have resolved it on D2 itself !

 

IRT Wifi's vote.

 

She voted RIGHT AT DL- Exact min.

 

And hadnt posted in like 3-4 pages beforehand.

 

Thats not a little sketch to you?

[Wildfire Sedai]

So yes I have a habit of flip flopping....and you know what I just realized: I told myself I wasn't gonna let it happen and I did... You probably wanna know what I wasn't gonna let happen...me being dissuaded from my reads....    Every time I go after darthe he goes after me and I back down and he turns out to be scum...not this time....  [v] darthe [/v]

[Zander?]

 

I went through the whole game and reread everything again. (I ignored Zander and it was so much better, lol). 

 

Adding my points on who cannot be wolf:

 

Ironeyes - The vig shot was legit and non-countered.  And now we know that Dice was 3rd party. This pretty much clears him.

Zander - Has been quite active and his thoughts match with mine. He is quite verbose about it though. DOn't see him scumming here.

Hallia - Pretty much the below read list she gave on D1 shows that she is not wolf

 

Zand/Cass - Obv Town

Kat - I feel that vibe from her.  She's here, she's present, she's in a great mood

Dice - Tone is villagery af

 

 

Shad - He's improved a lot, I was having trouble earlier but he's got his head in the game

Tiinker - I feel like he's towny, seems different from his scum games

Nolder - Townish lean to me - This is different for me, as I recall scum reading him a lot back in the day.  I feel like he's being open and honest

Ironeyes - I'm on the cusp of town here.  I like his level of involvement.  He's my lowest town lean.

 

Bee - On the fence about - Want to give him more time though

Darthe - Felt more confident initially, that is fading into doubt, though.

Wifi - I feel like I always scum read - Others are town reading, so will give time.

 

JS - Still suspicious of, but as people say, he's got his head in the game right now.  May unvote, but I still think wolfy.

Pral - Did not like his read list, or level of involvement

Hellian - I don't know if it's because he's new.  I find it odd also the people that are normally all about d1 passes for new people aren't doing it here.  It says more about them than it does Hellian to me.

 

She has both Hellian and JS in the scum list. If she is busing here, she could have easily bused JS instead of Hellian and voted him. She was already suspecting JS and had already voted him earlier, so it would be a good continuity. And, busing a weaker role than the stronger Hellian. But, she stuck on the Hellian push and actually cleared others from giving him a newbie pass. If Hallia is scum, she played real smart here (I don't see how she is, though). 

 

 

sadface.gif

 

Would 3 Scum/Sk/Survivor make ANY sense?

 

Would legit lololololol if wolf team was Pral/Hellion/JS/Hallia

 

But again I dont see how we dont have a Doc this game but Im not great at figuring out roles and balance.

 

Also Hallia made comments that Ive not seen come from Scum!Hallia that I recall.

[Zander?]

So remind me, how many wolves do we have left wifi?

 

Obv if you have a point to this wait but why are you asking Wifi this specifically. 

 

Dead air dead villager. These consensus reads are stale as hell, and id be saying so regardless of position.

 

or Could be

 

WKTATDAGU

[Pralaya]

JS did inadvertently slip that there are 4 scum.

[Zander?]

 

So remind me, how many wolves do we have left wifi?

 

Obv if you have a point to this wait but why are you asking Wifi this specifically. 

 

Dead air dead villager. These consensus reads are stale as hell, and id be saying so regardless of position.

 

or Could be

 

WKTATDAGU

 

 

Weird it cut off the rest/

 

What has given anyone here the impression that are reads are or even could be stale?

[Pralaya]

[v]kat[/v]

[Shad_]

 

 

/m170 she says that at the time (EoD1) she thought Believer might have been pushing Snow to take the pressure off Hellian (~~doesn't totally add up since he pushed Snow before there was any pressure on Hellian, but he did continue to push Snow at EoD~~) Says that D2 she was so bogged down arguing with Zander that she didn't have time to reevaluate. But then adds that since Snow died N1 she wouldn't have been able to evaluate further Believer/Snow interaction anyway (~~so apparently the unlikelihood of w/w/w didn't phase her at all?~~) Adds that while she made her comment on Snow he wasn't super high on her suspect list and she hates D1 and she thought Believer's choice to avoid interactions with other players was really scummy (~~I would say he interacted a lot, he just only ever took one hard stance.~~) Says irt my question about Pral's activity level that she's not the sort to ISO other games but she remembers him being more active, says towns should be trying to solve rather than just fly under the radar

Red is inaccurate. She suggested it was something she'd thought in the past and I took it for granted in paraphrasing that she meant EoD1. Could have meant N1. Noticed this because if she'd specified EoD1 she'd be blatantly contradicting herself.

 

I didn't understand it at the time - thank God it was not just me. believe what she was trying to say is that she thought Believer was scum because she thought on D2 that he was busing JS to prevent a Hellian lynch. Which doesn't make a lot of sense because Believer town train was right there instead of JS.

 

And, no, I am not busing Kat. Really?

 

I mean I get where a villager already sussing Believer could think he was pushing Snow to pull a lynch off Hellian, during N1.  That's fine.  I don't know how a Snow scum flip doesn't slap you in the face a hundred times over and scream "my theory on Believer is necessarily wrong" though.  The natural conclusion is to either think you had it backwards and Snow was pushing Believer to protect Hellian, or else to think w/w/w hardcore bussing.  Even if she somehow didn't think this on her own, she was frequently reminded of it.  I get that Zander tunneling her is pretty distracting but it's a massive disconnect from her thought process as described N2 to not stop and consider this.  She says things like "Beleiver is gonna continue to scum it up and you will ignore him" so it's not like she's not thinking about him at all and is just completely focused on self defense.  I expect town!Kat to see Snow flip scum and go "holy crap I'm confused now".  That's normal for her.  Does the fight with Z distract her from drawing a new conclusion?  Maybe.  Does it distract her from being confused about the state of the game because her theory N1 has been proven false?  I would say no.  But she expresses no confusion at all about Believer until he claims.  Up to that point he's scumming it up and that's all there seems to be to it.

[Shad_]

[v]Kat[/v] I'm ready to get on with this.

[BFG]

D3 Votecount

 

 

Kat (5): Darthe, Tiinker, Zass, Pral, Shad

 

Darthe (1): WiFi

 

 

Not Voting (3): Hallia, Ironeyes, Kat

 

[Shad_]

Dadv

 

How does this measure up with your opinion on what happened at EoD 2?  Do you have an opinion there?

[Shad_]

Like how much more comfortable???

Regarding the Snow thing, only slightly after thismorning, because it is quite possible she played with him years ago on Myndjack. Still seems weird that that meta would carry more weight in her mind than games she's played with Pral in the last few months, especially considering she acknowledged that she only played a few with Snow.

 

But I've mulled this over from a hundred different angles and I don't see a believable internal thought process in her. I mean Crush in Overwatch etc there are some people whose thought process just plain doesn't make sense and they're still villagers, but if she flips villa at this point I won't feel bad for lack of effort on my end. She's probably just a wolf.

[Darthe]

D2 ended how it did because of self pres. Kinda artificially altered, dont you think?

[Darthe]

 

Like how much more comfortable???

Regarding the Snow thing, only slightly after thismorning, because it is quite possible she played with him years ago on Myndjack. Still seems weird that that meta would carry more weight in her mind than games she's played with Pral in the last few months, especially considering she acknowledged that she only played a few with Snow.

 

But I've mulled this over from a hundred different angles and I don't see a believable internal thought process in her. I mean Crush in Overwatch etc there are some people whose thought process just plain doesn't make sense and they're still villagers, but if she flips villa at this point I won't feel bad for lack of effort on my end. She's probably just a wolf.

Js was on myndjack?

[Shad_]

So yes I have a habit of flip flopping....and you know what I just realized: I told myself I wasn't gonna let it happen and I did... You probably wanna know what I wasn't gonna let happen...me being dissuaded from my reads....    Every time I go after darthe he goes after me and I back down and he turns out to be scum...not this time....  [v] darthe [/v]

The only game you played in where Darthe was a wolf, you were a wolf too. 

[Shad_]

Js was on myndjack?

No clue but no way of proving he wasn't since the site's offline, and he was an active player on DM when Kat was an active player on MJ so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on claiming to have played with him before.

[Zander?]

Im trying to figure out what roles make any sort of sense here.

 

Hallia claimed Doc.

 

Marsh claimed x1 Vig with a x1 something else iirc.

 

Kat claimed Tracker or Watcher

 

Tink claimed Tracker or Watcher.

 

OP wasnt updated so I forget what Nol flipped but I think he was kinda VT?

 

Believer flipped some sort of BPV/IC combo.

 

Darthe claimed Commuter iirc.

 

 

Am I missing anyone?

[Zander?]

[v]Kat[/v] I'm ready to get on with this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

sadface.gif

[Shad_]

D2 ended how it did because of self pres. Kinda artificially altered, dont you think?

D2 Votecount

 

 

Kat (3): Pral, Zass, Darthe

 

Believer (1): Dice

 

Darthe (3): Believer, Hallia, Tiinker

 

Not Voting (4): Ironeyes, Katiora, Shad_, WiFi

 

 

You have until phase change to decide where to stay the night

After this vote count Iron voted you. 4 Darthe 3 Kat 1 Believer.

 

You moved from Kat to Believer to make it 4 Darthe 2 Kat 2 Believer.

 

Kat then voted Believer to make it 4 Darthe 2 Kat 3 Believer.

 

Neither of those are self-preservation votes.

 

From there is was CFD chaos by people who were in no threat of getting lynched.

[Shad_]

Darthe I recognize that if you are a villager you know town is being fooled in some capacity, but do you think there are two deeper wolves and Kat is also town? That's the impression I'm getting.