Tarmon Gaidon [Advanced Mafia] Game Over

[Darthe]

I feel I've stuck up for Shad a decent amount this game and I don't like it. But he's been one of the main contributors to the game and it seems like a lot of nitpicking. I really hope I'm not wrong.

If this is a fake wolf post its a good one, should be regarded as objectively townie

[Hellian]

Back and reading up.

[Darthe]

Seriously marsh is such an easy early game town read. Ive not seen him have this much wim in a long time.

[Hellian]

anyone having problems multiquoting? every time i do it it replies

 

 

 

@Hellian   Zander is right  im talking about the timing of ure response

Random luck of when I saw the PM and said wtf game started.

[Hellian]

 

 

 

 

Running the thread is classic scum play. Easy to hide behind false content.With that said, it's only day 1, so I'm still watching player interactions.Why do you call scum wolves?

So what are your thoughts on me?

Still waiting on an answer to this.

You don't have a job?

Zander and I were both dominating the opening phase of the game. You could have argued that either of us were trying to "run the thread".She should have some sort of opinion on my slot at that point, if she's ready to drop a serious vote on Zander for this reason.Can't beat an answer out of her all day.Wolf who thinks its safe to blow off a player she perceives as lynch bait, or just a really apathetic villager?

Actually while you both have high post counts, I see more content in your posts than spam. ATM I am reading you as hyperactive townie.

[Hellian]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I might just give up.  This village is pretty hopeless.

 

 

 

[v]Shad[/v]

 

I will not address any further idiotic suspicion on my slot.  I"m going to state my reads and you can all piss off.

 

 

[v] unvote [/v]

 

[v] Hellian [/v]

I'll admit to reading backwards, but I see no case here.  If this is supposed to be an OMGUS, then you didn't read that I did not think my vote on you had counted because I hadn't followed protocol.

 

Its 100% not OMGUS

 

I know you mentioned your vote.  Im the one who told you how to properly do it and that your vote likely didnt count.

Well, when you lay out your case so clearly like that, how could I possibly defend myself?

 

You could I dunno I suppose read the thread and address questions and concern addressed to you?

I could if you didn't spam up the thread.  Again, something that pings my scumdar about you, but I chalk it up to too much time on your hands.  TBH, much of the past 20 pages has been LOLing at eachother and talking about past games.  If there was a question in there I more than likely missed it.  So I'll be online for about 10 more minutes.  Ask, and I will answer.

 

This sounds like a you problem.

 

 

I'm out for tonight.  Will check back tomorrow. 

 

For now [v]vote Zaner[/v]

 

And yes that is pure OMGUS.

 

 

lololololol

 

 

First, did Ironeyes say that myself and John could be on a team?  Literally makes no sense.

 

 

wrong

 

i voted you for that then ive been catching up and evaluating while putting these posts up

 

im not moving my vbote simply cause you went all fake ate. You wanna do that? you wanna vote ureself cause people are sus of you in a game where you have to be sus of pretty much everyone if ure town?  then im more then happy to put you out of your misery and take you out of the game.

 

 

that ATE blast says NOTHING for your alignment. Its the easiest thing to do as scum. Thats why its styupid for Zander to instantly unvote for it.

 

 

so no im NOT tunnelling you for claiming mafia on page 2, tho i will say that, particualrly for you Mr Spreadsheet, that if ure stupid enuff to claim mafia in a game im in then you should be expecting me to go you for it,  I am staying on you for that little blow up

 

 

I do NOT see that coming from scumDice

 

I'm out for tonight.  Will check back tomorrow. 

 

For now [v]vote Zaner[/v]

 

And yes that is pure OMGUS.

 

OMGSUS is never pretty.

 

Can you elaborate please on the bold??

 

 

 

 

Char claiming this early is disgusting.

 

 

my first thought on seeing this was that snow was spewing halli pulled a strong character so thats gonna make her harder to mislynch

 

my second is thats hallia. Deal with it.

 

For me  that claim almost locks her in blue  will take something big for me to lynch there

Char claiming this early is disgusting.

 

 

I said it was disgusting. I think it's antitown. Claiming doc day 1 is always bad for town. 

 

It's not scummy, just bad play. 

 

-snip-

John Snow: Pops in, votes me for lame/unexplained reasons, disappears. Pingy for sure, and like I said before this reminds me of Scum!Clovdyx in the beginning of Demons Cove. He directed all of the attention toward me right from the start and not only gained towncred for it, but was able to keep the heat off of his lurky teammates. They won that game in part because of his calculated risk there.

 

 

 

A) I gave a reason. 

 

B) I said I would be sparse for 12 hours (aka until about now)

 

C) I'm not Clov

 

Also, Zass is 26 posts from cap lmao. It's been barely 24 hours.

 

You keep talking about the cap and not much else.

 

FYI- (therers no real cap)

 

You cant hide from me.

The bold you keep referring to is a post from Hallia. Are you deliberately trying to confuse us?

[Believer]

Meh.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]John Snow[/v]

[Ironeyes]

Not trying to be confrontational but why?

[Believer]

Not trying to be confrontational but why?

I assume you're talking to me.

 

I don't like his opening.

[Darthe]

Me too thanks

[Darthe]

Ninjad. Not liking his opening is it?

[Ironeyes]

 

Not trying to be confrontational but why?

I assume you're talking to me.

 

I don't like his opening.

I was.

 

But you did nearly the same thing as him in the first few pages of the game.

[Shad_]

Believer, you've been extremely disengaged so far.

 

What's up with that? 

[Shad_]

Actually while you both have high post counts, I see more content in your posts than spam. ATM I am reading you as hyperactive townie.

I suppose that's fair.

 

Zander's a villager. I have a lot of experience playing with him and a great track record reading him and I would be very very surprised if he was anything else in this game.

 

It will help me a lot towards reading you if you spread out more and express your thoughts on the whole player base instead of just focusing on him.

[Shad_]

 

 

I think I'll answer both of these together because the majority of the "defensiveness" I saw was statements of "you're wrong." 

 

Hmm. Reread pages 12-15 and Shad comes out of it looking pretty defensive. At first Nolder was looking hypocritical because he was FOSing Shad for acting without explaining himself, but refused to explain himself either. But when I asked, Nol immediately explained. Whereas Shad refused to give substantive reasoning and kept falling back to insults. This post in particular pinged me: 
 

You're freaking out because Zander's telling you I'm a wolf and you trust his ability to read me.
 
Zander's never read me correctly out the gate in any game ever.
 
I'll humor you later if I have the time, but I'm not particularly interested in defending myself at the moment.

Not interested in defending himself but spent his last like six posts on just that.

 

Finally got to looking at this.
 
The only post in that whole sequence that was remotely defensive was the first one, that I made at you, where I immediately posted again calling myself out on it.
 
You wouldn't be the first person to interpret my bluntness as defensiveness, as bewildering as that is to me.  But I need you to talk me through your thought process more here.  You pulled a post where I was responding to Cass's request that I go back through early Cass and Zander posts and pull out individual quotes that I liked.  Do you feel that my response to this is applicable to my conversation with Nolder?
 
It's easy to pull an out of context quote where I say I'm not interested in defending myself [by doing tedious work that I find unnecessary] and point to some other posts and mislabel them as defensive and say I'm contradicting myself and that's wolfy, but it's never going to catch scum > rand of the time.  Talk me through your thought process when you made this connection.

 

OK maybe I just see insults as defensiveness. It's a holdover from following politics. I read a lot of you calling Nolder things like ridiculous, which to me reads "I don't want to answer you." 
 

 

I understand you don't have to post a WoT every time someone challenges you, but for the three pages I read all I saw was "you're wrong" and no "this is why."

Show me these things.

 

 
Posts like this: 

 

If you are a villager and have any interest in winning this game you will answer me.

 

 

 

It's not clear to me. Could you give us a bit more detail on your reasoning?

He's laughing off Zander's concern instead of addressing it head on. Much like what he's doing with me right now.
 
He appears to be caught and doesn't know what to do.

 

 
I asked you three times to explain your point and you refused to, then told Iron I'm laughing you off instead of addressing you head on.

 

 
 

ugh
 
Nolder's probably a villager.
 
Reference massive thread derailment in Nightmare Before Christmas to see what I'm talking about.  If I get into this with him it will be a never ending cycle of him refusing to talk to me because of some imaginary slight on my end.
 
Moving on.

This one seems out of place in my response but I included it because after this I saw a pattern of trying to shut down the disagreement without resolving it. 
 

 

I gave my answer and I am confident others will come to the same conclusion I did regarding your posts.
I'm not going to get sucked into an endless debate about what you really meant.

You gave your answer to Iron afterwards. You consistently refused to answer me. You're ridiculous.

 

 
 

I'm more amused than annoyed by this, but I'm putting you on ignore for a while for the rest of the thread's sake.

 

 

Alright. As a villager, it's my job to find other villagers and wolves. When a player is willing to share their thoughts and engage the game and maintain a dialogue with me, I talk to them and try to figure them out. When a player is closed and resistant and refuses to communicate, it's my job to beat a read out of them. I could choose to get frustrated with Nolder's refusal to talk to me and just OMGUS vote him out of annoyance, similar to his method of lynching players based on policy rather than read, or I could accept that he's not going to freely offer information and just drop him into my null pile and eventually lynch him by POE, or I can dig into him and provoke him and force him to react to me so that I can actually generate something to read him by and improve my chances of winning a game.
 

As a wolf, it's my job to look like I'm a villager.

 

The things you are taking as defensive here are the exact opposite.  They're aggressive and confrontational.  (and extremely unrelated to my comments at Cass that you'd pulled into the mix)  You think that it's out of place for me to resolve on a town read, but if you're a villager it's because you fail to grasp what I'm doing in the first place.  If I wanted to fight for the sake of fighting with a predetermined conclusion that I'm going to call whoever I'm talking to the bad guy, I would go hang out in the debate forum or watch Fox News or something.  I'm interested in people's alignments.

[Believer]

Believer, you've been extremely disengaged so far.

 

What's up with that?

I wouldn't say "extremely".

 

Coupled with RL things and my general dislike of D1 shenanigans, I'd say that my level of participation has been quite normal.

 

 

Expect me to be fully present from D2 forward.

[Hallia]

*nodnod*  I see that, Bee.

[Hellian]

 

Actually while you both have high post counts, I see more content in your posts than spam. ATM I am reading you as hyperactive townie.

I suppose that's fair.Zander's a villager. I have a lot of experience playing with him and a great track record reading him and I would be very very surprised if he was anything else in this game.It will help me a lot towards reading you if you spread out more and express your thoughts on the whole player base instead of just focusing on him.

Don't you find it odd that he accuses me of ignoring questions that are referencing another player?

[Cass]

im taking a break  im now annoyed 

 

Dice, what exactly annoyed you enough to leave?

 

Doesn't seem to gel with a) being sure Shad is wolfy enough to keep your vote or b) Zander doing Zander things and I don't see anything else. 

 

Since when do you up and leave over either of those?

[Shad_]

 

Believer, you've been extremely disengaged so far.

 

What's up with that?

I wouldn't say "extremely".

 

Coupled with RL things and my general dislike of D1 shenanigans, I'd say that my level of participation has been quite normal.

 

Expect me to be fully present from D2 forward.

 

These were all your read-related posts that I could find:

 

 

 

Hey all, innocent child reporting in.

 

[v]Ironeyes[/v]

 

Da freak? Believer hasn't unvoted? Dude, it's WAY past time to leave a joke vote there. I need to move him down the list.

Why do you assume it's a joke vote?

 

Why do you think it's past time?

This is not a majority lynch game, no votes until 1 hour before deadline actually matter.

 

 

I will change my vote though, after I've caught up, unless that person improves or you do something scummy.

 

Meh, I was going to vote John Snow but now I kind of like Ironeyes again.

 

Bothers me slightly that I'm voting with John though, meh.

 

 

Consider me engaged, anyone here to talk to?

Meh.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]John Snow[/v]

 

Not trying to be confrontational but why?

I assume you're talking to me.

 

I don't like his opening.

 

 

 

 

Meh. Maybe your IC game set a standard that you're going to have a hard time living down, but you were more engaged early in Star Fox even if it paled to Disney.

 

I suppose there's only 14 players here though.

 

I guess that having seen what you're capable of as a villager I have fairly high expectations, but it also tells me you're not going to just be frozen as a wolf. You're a player who knows what he's doing.

 

I certainly haven't seen anything to make me want to lynch you today, was hoping to have a decent read on you early though.

[Believer]

@Shad

 

I can't promise glory, but I can promise entertainment. It'll be amusing to play with me.

 

That's a faith-based guarantee.

[BFG]

Hydra "cap" was lifted to 300 posts and an earlier "lift"

 

Please note this is not in the game rules, it is a (strong) suggestion and something I'm monitoring :)

[BFG]

D1 Votecount

 

 

 

Shad (2): Dice, Nolder

 

Ironeyes (1): Snow

 

Snow (3): Ironeyes, Hallia, Believer

 

Hellian (1): Zass

 

Zass (1): Hellian

 

Not Voting (6): Darthe, Katiora, Pralaya, Shad_, Tiinker, Wildfire Sedai

 

 

[Shad_]

Don't you find it odd that he accuses me of ignoring questions that are referencing another player?

I don't because I know him.

 

 

This is Zander.

 

It might literally be Zander and not just a metaphor.

 

He's going to misread things and overreact because he's flying through the game at a mile a minute, but if you engage him directly and talk him through it town!Zander will recognize he misread something if he did and continually readjust. He might still tunnel you to oblivion, but he'll have reasons that make sense in his head.

 

Scum!Zander can replicate the outward appearance of his paranoia and tunnel vision, but if you take him to task on it you'll see it's a facade. He'll overplay the dumb card and pretend to not understand you. He'll ignore points that conflict with his argument. He'll raise new issues that contradict his original stated concerns.  I'm not seeing any of it.  But he's easiest to communicate with one on one in real time, where you can directly convey your points to him.  In his catch-ups he's too distracted worrying about 12 other people.

[Shad_]

@ Cass sorry for not getting to your question last night, but I got a late start and ISOing Iron was the main thing on my mind.