Tarmon Gaidon [Advanced Mafia] Game Over

[Shad_]

Honestly after reading that the things that bother me most are your "I probably don't need to explain myself here." irt calling Zander a villager and your "I dunno." irt labeling Believer a wolf lean. You were fairly descriptive in that game about the players you did have reads on, whether I agree with them or not, and never minded having a big null pile.

[Shad_]

And the Snow/Clov parallel is just o_O. I was making that expression a lot reading your first game though so I don't know how much it should bother me.

Meh that was a lot of work to walk away indecisive but I could go either way with you.  A lot of what bugged me ISOing you in this game earlier was definitely just the way you play though, especially the awkward vote switch.

 

Going to read whatever Snow just posted and go to bed.

[Shad_]

...Snow didn't really post much of anything.

[Shad_]

VILLAGERS BE VILLAGERY

[Shad_]

sleep

[Shad_]

I could actually see Nolder being SK again with all the policy chatter and lack of real focus on anything not directed at him.  /shrug

[Shad_]

Or my nice guy meta on him could just be dated.

 

But he can still be a D1 villager.

[BFG]

D1 Votecount

 

 

 

Shad (2): Dice, Nolder

 

Ironeyes (2): Believer, Snow

 

Snow (2): Ironeyes, Hallia

 

Hellian (1): Zass

 

Zass (1): Hellian

 

Not Voting (6): Darthe, Katiora, Pralaya, Shad_, Tiinker, Wildfire Sedai

 

 

[BFG]

Please note that hydra postcap is extended due to Day 1 being longer than normal

[Nolder]

What is it extended to?

[Believer]

Da freak? Believer hasn't unvoted? Dude, it's WAY past time to leave a joke vote there. I need to move him down the list.

Why do you assume it's a joke vote?

 

Why do you think it's past time?

This is not a majority lynch game, no votes until 1 hour before deadline actually matter.

 

 

I will change my vote though, after I've caught up, unless that person improves or you do something scummy.

[BFG]

A reminder to PM questions to me and that I will not answer questions asked in thread

[Believer]

Meh, I was going to vote John Snow but now I kind of like Ironeyes again.

 

Bothers me slightly that I'm voting with John though, meh.

 

 

Consider me engaged, anyone here to talk to?

[Tiinker]

Just woke up. Sup?

[Tiinker]

wrong

 

i voted you for that then ive been catching up and evaluating while putting these posts up

 

im not moving my vbote simply cause you went all fake ate. You wanna do that? you wanna vote ureself cause people are sus of you in a game where you have to be sus of pretty much everyone if ure town?  then im more then happy to put you out of your misery and take you out of the game.

 

 

that ATE blast says NOTHING for your alignment. Its the easiest thing to do as scum. Thats why its styupid for Zander to instantly unvote for it.

 

 

so no im NOT tunnelling you for claiming mafia on page 2, tho i will say that, particualrly for you Mr Spreadsheet, that if ure stupid enuff to claim mafia in a game im in then you should be expecting me to go you for it,  I am staying on you for that little blow up

Mate, I feel you, but he voted himself and then unvoted the post after. It was clearly a joke and he wasn't going to dick himself cause he's frustrated. I can recall it happening twice on the site (Sili, and I think I remember someone else, though could've been a while ago) and both times the player was town. I get you're annoyed but this just reads like "I'm annoyed, I'm voting him" rather than "He's scum".

[Tiinker]

I feel I've stuck up for Shad a decent amount this game and I don't like it. But he's been one of the main contributors to the game and it seems like a lot of nitpicking. I really hope I'm not wrong.

[Tiinker]

Will try and reread in a bit and adapt a reads list, some people have shifted.

[Katiora]

 

wrong

 

i voted you for that then ive been catching up and evaluating while putting these posts up

 

im not moving my vbote simply cause you went all fake ate. You wanna do that? you wanna vote ureself cause people are sus of you in a game where you have to be sus of pretty much everyone if ure town? then im more then happy to put you out of your misery and take you out of the game.

 

 

that ATE blast says NOTHING for your alignment. Its the easiest thing to do as scum. Thats why its styupid for Zander to instantly unvote for it.

 

 

so no im NOT tunnelling you for claiming mafia on page 2, tho i will say that, particualrly for you Mr Spreadsheet, that if ure stupid enuff to claim mafia in a game im in then you should be expecting me to go you for it, I am staying on you for that little blow up

Mate, I feel you, but he voted himself and then unvoted the post after. It was clearly a joke and he wasn't going to dick himself cause he's frustrated. I can recall it happening twice on the site (Sili, and I think I remember someone else, though could've been a while ago) and both times the player was town. I get you're annoyed but this just reads like "I'm annoyed, I'm voting him" rather than "He's scum".

I self voted. And hammered myself in darthe's last game. Lololololol but in my defense I was jester. Easiest game ever. Lololololol

[Ironeyes]

 

 

Char claiming this early is disgusting.

 

my first thought on seeing this was that snow was spewing halli pulled a strong character so thats gonna make her harder to mislynch

 

my second is thats hallia. Deal with it.

 

For me  that claim almost locks her in blue  will take something big for me to lynch there

Char claiming this early is disgusting.

 

 

I said it was disgusting. I think it's antitown. Claiming doc day 1 is always bad for town. 

 

It's not scummy, just bad play. 

 

-snip-

John Snow: Pops in, votes me for lame/unexplained reasons, disappears. Pingy for sure, and like I said before this reminds me of Scum!Clovdyx in the beginning of Demons Cove. He directed all of the attention toward me right from the start and not only gained towncred for it, but was able to keep the heat off of his lurky teammates. They won that game in part because of his calculated risk there. 

 

 

A) I gave a reason. 

 

B) I said I would be sparse for 12 hours (aka until about now)

 

C) I'm not Clov

 

Also, Zass is 26 posts from cap lmao. It's been barely 24 hours. 

 

You did not give a reason. This (below) is the only thing you posted "explaining yourself." You said you thought that another pingy post was mine, then said you'd be on mobile, which is not necessarily the same as completely gone. But you then posted twice more, both times about Hallia's character claim, and didn't post again until the one I'm responding to. 

 

Also, I'm not saying you're clov. But I think it's perfectly acceptable to look for patterns in mafiaz and expect them to show up later in other mafiaz

 

 

John's pop-in with no other input stood out. Also, as I said, Iron's jumping around.

 

Re:shad I don't know that he wouldn't do all that joking as scum, so it's null for me. The rest is pretty much joking.

I'll be on mobile for the next 12 hours so don't expect too much from me.

 

There's another post that pinged me, and I'm 60% sure it was from iron. I'll get it later if I have time.

[Ironeyes]

Lots to respond to this morning. I'll do it now because I have a physics lab and work for the rest of the day and won't be able to be as active as I was yestereday. 

[Ironeyes]

First batch of Shad's stuff (out of chronological order but this is the part that doesn't require me to go back and reread. 

You town read Sooh for intentionally drawing a lot of attention to herself but think I'm a wolf.

 

I scum read Sooh at one point in that game, though. Made a lot of folks mad. 

 

Extremely and openly self-conscious about not wanting to appear scummy.

 

Pinged when players defend their town reads.

 

Pinged when players pursue their scum reads aggressively.

 

Encourages lynching PRs to test their claims without actually presenting a case for why they're scummy.

 

Still null on most of the player base on day 3.

 

Clearly from another era as far as how he perceives the game, for better or worse.  GOAT reads, has the wolves in his bottom four for a lot of the game and bottom three for a while.

You're giving me too much credit. The only reason I had good reads was luck. Most of the flaws in my playing that you've pointed out are simple because I go with the flow of the game and sometimes forget what I've said in the past. Which is why I usually look inconsistent. Case in point: I've already town read Hallia and scum read her in this game, because the second time I didn't remember what happened the first time. 

 

Meh I think I might have lynched you in Demons Cove

You and everyone else... Talmanes's cop read is the only thing that saved me. 

 

I see zero parallels between Clov's posts leading up to his vote on you and Snow's posts about you at the start of this game.

The parallel I see is a wolf picking out a townie who looks bad in the beginning of day one and directing attention that way. It sows confusion and sets up a possible mislynch early on. Granted, Clov pursued it a lot more aggressively. But I still see a pattern. 

[Ironeyes]

 

Da freak? Believer hasn't unvoted? Dude, it's WAY past time to leave a joke vote there. I need to move him down the list.

Why do you assume it's a joke vote?

 

Why do you think it's past time?

This is not a majority lynch game, no votes until 1 hour before deadline actually matter.

 

 

I will change my vote though, after I've caught up, unless that person improves or you do something scummy.

I've said it before, and I still believe that joke votes shouldn't last long. That just throws confusion into the mix when we should be using our votes purposefully.

And I didn't think it odd to assume that the vote you threw down in your first post of the game was a joke. Everyone else's were, and you were clearly referring back to Disney. 

[Ironeyes]

 

Da freak? Believer hasn't unvoted? Dude, it's WAY past time to leave a joke vote there. I need to move him down the list.

 

Now that I think about it I'm happy to leave the Shad train as it is but let's have some more options. [v]John[/v]

This is kind of awkward.

 

I mean I get "I think Joe's wolfy for doing this" . . . "oh crap I'm doing something similar" moments. But my reflex isn't going to be to adjust my vote to be in accordance with my stated reads. It's going to be to qualify my previous opinion on Believer.

 

I don't see a connection there. I stated that I think believer looks bad for leaving his vote there so long, but I voted Snow to put up competing trains. The phrase "now that I think about it" referred to the vote count that had been posted just before. There were only two trains on it, and I wanted more to get some more input. But I disagree with "not adjusting my vote to be in accordance with my previous reads." In fact, I think the purpose of a read list, among other things, is to clarify my thoughts and make it easy to see why I vote the way I do. It should be in line with my vote because I vote my scum reads. 

[Ironeyes]

My joke vote was gone after just a few pages. 

[Ironeyes]

I think I'll answer both of these together because the majority of the "defensiveness" I saw was statements of "you're wrong." 

 

Hmm. Reread pages 12-15 and Shad comes out of it looking pretty defensive. At first Nolder was looking hypocritical because he was FOSing Shad for acting without explaining himself, but refused to explain himself either. But when I asked, Nol immediately explained. Whereas Shad refused to give substantive reasoning and kept falling back to insults. This post in particular pinged me: 
 

You're freaking out because Zander's telling you I'm a wolf and you trust his ability to read me.
 
Zander's never read me correctly out the gate in any game ever.
 
I'll humor you later if I have the time, but I'm not particularly interested in defending myself at the moment.

Not interested in defending himself but spent his last like six posts on just that.

 

Finally got to looking at this.
 

The only post in that whole sequence that was remotely defensive was the first one, that I made at you, where I immediately posted again calling myself out on it.

 

You wouldn't be the first person to interpret my bluntness as defensiveness, as bewildering as that is to me.  But I need you to talk me through your thought process more here.  You pulled a post where I was responding to Cass's request that I go back through early Cass and Zander posts and pull out individual quotes that I liked.  Do you feel that my response to this is applicable to my conversation with Nolder?

 

It's easy to pull an out of context quote where I say I'm not interested in defending myself [by doing tedious work that I find unnecessary] and point to some other posts and mislabel them as defensive and say I'm contradicting myself and that's wolfy, but it's never going to catch scum > rand of the time.  Talk me through your thought process when you made this connection.

OK maybe I just see insults as defensiveness. It's a holdover from following politics. I read a lot of you calling Nolder things like ridiculous, which to me reads "I don't want to answer you." 

 

 

I understand you don't have to post a WoT every time someone challenges you, but for the three pages I read all I saw was "you're wrong" and no "this is why."

Show me these things.

 

Posts like this: 

 

If you are a villager and have any interest in winning this game you will answer me.

 

 

 

It's not clear to me. Could you give us a bit more detail on your reasoning? 

 

He's laughing off Zander's concern instead of addressing it head on. Much like what he's doing with me right now.

 

He appears to be caught and doesn't know what to do.

 

 

I asked you three times to explain your point and you refused to, then told Iron I'm laughing you off instead of addressing you head on.

 

 

 

ugh

 

Nolder's probably a villager.

 

Reference massive thread derailment in Nightmare Before Christmas to see what I'm talking about.  If I get into this with him it will be a never ending cycle of him refusing to talk to me because of some imaginary slight on my end.

 

Moving on.

This one seems out of place in my response but I included it because after this I saw a pattern of trying to shut down the disagreement without resolving it. 

 

 

I gave my answer and I am confident others will come to the same conclusion I did regarding your posts.
I'm not going to get sucked into an endless debate about what you really meant.

You gave your answer to Iron afterwards. You consistently refused to answer me. You're ridiculous.

 

 

I'm more amused than annoyed by this, but I'm putting you on ignore for a while for the rest of the thread's sake.