[Basic] I <3 the 90's Mafia: Music Edition - TOWN WINS!

[keyholder21]

Okay, I'll stop spamming now .

[Lenlo]

I have no read on Darthe.  He's firmly in my POE because he's done nothing to remove himself, and he's nowhere near the bottom because he hasn't done anything to draw my suspicion.  I won't vote him over Lenlo, Tina, Zander, and maybe throw Lily in there, but I'd CFD his ass in a heart beat if the counterwagon was one of the people I mentioned earlier.

 

Hallia I feel good about.  There's not a single post I would say couldn't come from Hallia as mafia, but her entire game total makes me feel good about her.  She's taken a few pretty strong stances, and none of her reasons seemed scummy or that they couldn't be genuine.  Her post about Alanna's stfu comment sounded REALLY pure to me.

So what, thats your wolf team? How does that fit?

[wish-tree]

Lenlo, where are you at?

[Lenlo]

Lenlo, where are you at?

Work? On phone. Slow day so far, but that all changes when a tour decides to come through.

[wish-tree]

I have no read on Darthe.  He's firmly in my POE because he's done nothing to remove himself, and he's nowhere near the bottom because he hasn't done anything to draw my suspicion.  I won't vote him over Lenlo, Tina, Zander, and maybe throw Lily in there, but I'd CFD his ass in a heart beat if the counterwagon was one of the people I mentioned earlier.

 

Yeah, I have a lot of similar reads on people I put near the middle category of my reads. I'm too chicken to CFD them or vote them atm b/c I have stronger scum reads. That makes sense, I have him in about the same category.

 

Hallia I feel good about.  There's not a single post I would say couldn't come from Hallia as mafia, but her entire game total makes me feel good about her.  She's taken a few pretty strong stances, and none of her reasons seemed scummy or that they couldn't be genuine.  Her post about Alanna's stfu comment sounded REALLY pure to me.

 

So this is purely a tone read?

[BFG]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-1/page-51?do=findComment&comment=3663480 (part 1ish sorta)

 

 

Interestingly you point out one of the posts I had an issue with, there's no value in saying that Dice called me town as well, and saying I'm not out of mafia range is sort of redundant at this stage. In itself doesn't mean much, but as a stand alone post I didn't like it.

 

However what's the point in asking 'why choose the posts you respond to?'

 

More importantly, you quote me saying 'catch' up and give a lengthy analysis of what you think I mean by it and yet in the same post you quote me saying it's because he read ahead and so isn't reading it raw...

[wish-tree]

 

Lenlo, where are you at?

Work? On phone. Slow day so far, but that all changes when a tour decides to come through.

 

lol Mr. Literal

 

I meant, where are you at in terms of your reads, the game state? Again, as I said before, I skipped the majority of what Sili and you were arguing about because it was just a downer.

[Clovdyx]

 

I have no read on Darthe.  He's firmly in my POE because he's done nothing to remove himself, and he's nowhere near the bottom because he hasn't done anything to draw my suspicion.  I won't vote him over Lenlo, Tina, Zander, and maybe throw Lily in there, but I'd CFD his ass in a heart beat if the counterwagon was one of the people I mentioned earlier.

 

Hallia I feel good about.  There's not a single post I would say couldn't come from Hallia as mafia, but her entire game total makes me feel good about her.  She's taken a few pretty strong stances, and none of her reasons seemed scummy or that they couldn't be genuine.  Her post about Alanna's stfu comment sounded REALLY pure to me.

So what, thats your wolf team? How does that fit?

 

 

No, that's my list of people who have stood out to me as independently scummy.  I would be shocked if there's not one - and probably more - townies in there.  But I would also be shocked if there's not one - and maybe more than one - mafia in there.

 

In terms of teams, I really don't see any group in there that I couldn't fahtom being teammates.  Zander said earlier he doesn't always bus.  I'll vouch that.  But you and I both know he absolutely will do it.  All I remember from you is interactions with Seph and Sili, so I can't rule you out from being teamed with any of them.  Neither Tina or Lily has said a whole lot to give me reason to eliminate potential groupings.

[keyholder21]

Official Vote Count:
 
Zander (1) - Niniel, 
Niniel (2) - Hallia, Zander,
Lenlo (3) - Clov, alannalynn, Sili

Sili (1) - Lenlo
 
Not Voting (9) - Darthe, Thane, BFG, Katiora, Lily, Wistork, alannalynn, Lizabeth, Seph


DEADLINE: Wednesday, June 8, 4:30pm CST
 

[BFG]

For wish

 

 

 

 

 

@Dice what do you mean by short posts being town Sander and which posts are you paying attention to?

 

@Zander but what does Laine not posting have to do with the fact that something Seph said makes me think she's unlikely to be mafia with him?

 

Because it didnt make any sense to me. 

 

Usually connects are more based on interactions.

 

Like a comment to me would more likely be player x prolly doesnt say this as Scum.

 

Does this make more sense to you?

 

Ok

 

fwiw this is the post I made. I think it quite a convoluted thought process for mafia Seph to say this about Laine if she's his teammate. I don't think it's impossible, and I haven't scratched out that possible pairing yet, but I find it unlikely that he thinks it through so quickly.

 

 

 

Why does 20% of the game checking in or otherwise make the statement odd?

because he called them necessary reads for a wolf seph. When around 4-5 poeple out of 16 have checked in, i only had a handful of people to try and read at that time. So it isn't like i just jumped into the middle of the game and randomly picked them out of the pile, to fit my own benefit.

besides if I was a wolf I would try to get on bfg/alanna's good side haha. I am pretty sure I have wolfed against them the most, and they figured me out the earliest before I killed them :)

 

 

 

[Clovdyx]

 

I have no read on Darthe.  He's firmly in my POE because he's done nothing to remove himself, and he's nowhere near the bottom because he hasn't done anything to draw my suspicion.  I won't vote him over Lenlo, Tina, Zander, and maybe throw Lily in there, but I'd CFD his ass in a heart beat if the counterwagon was one of the people I mentioned earlier.

 

Yeah, I have a lot of similar reads on people I put near the middle category of my reads. I'm too chicken to CFD them or vote them atm b/c I have stronger scum reads. That makes sense, I have him in about the same category.

 

Hallia I feel good about.  There's not a single post I would say couldn't come from Hallia as mafia, but her entire game total makes me feel good about her.  She's taken a few pretty strong stances, and none of her reasons seemed scummy or that they couldn't be genuine.  Her post about Alanna's stfu comment sounded REALLY pure to me.

 

So this is purely a tone read?

 

 

No.  It's a combination of tone, content, and meta.  Probably in that order.

[Katiora]

 

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

I'd be fine with a lynch Niniel or Zander at this point too, but the disconnect between what Lenlo claims to be thinking and what he's saying just doesn't seem natural.  It's not exactly backtracking, because he didn't take a stance, but it seems like he's twisting his own words to mean something different (or nothing?).  Even now, I have no idea where he's at with Sili, and a lot of what he said makes me think he ought to be actively PUSHING Sili.  

 

 

I still don't feel better about Lenlo than I did before, though.  His defense against Sili basically boils down to the fact that Lenlo didn't say anybody was scummy, verbatim.  He's not wrong...but I don't see why Sili SHOULDN'T have read into Lenlo's post that way.  Saying somebody 'seems off' has a certain connotation to it.  It's no different than saying somebody 'sounds good'.  

 

So again, if Lenlo honestly WASN'T trying to imply a...lack of towniness?... he made that catch up post to contribute nothing.

 

And the entire time he was going back and forth with Sili over the same points, he still didn't really give any opinions that MATTER.  Even when he was saying Sili seemed like an over-committed wolf, Lenlo still treated him like he knew Sili was town.

 

 

Like, im trying to understand where your coming from and your reasons. But all your doing is hardlining against me and refusing me at almost every turn. Its not the attitude id expect of someone trying to solve the game, but rather someone who had over committed to a wolf read and knows theres no backing out now. Rather then discussing it and your other reads with me your shutting it down and saying "piss off wolf".

 

Cmon dude. Not talking aint gonna resolve/solve anything.

 

 

 

Like, im trying to understand where your coming from and your reasons. But all your doing is hardlining against me and refusing me at almost every turn. Its not the attitude id expect of someone trying to solve the game, but rather someone who had over committed to a wolf read and knows theres no backing out now. Rather then discussing it and your other reads with me your shutting it down and saying "piss off wolf".

 

Cmon dude. Not talking aint gonna resolve/solve anything.

I don't want to be stuck here for another 3 hours trying to communicate with a wolf when the wolf is intent on not understanding anything.

 

Quit it with the narrative. Im trying to move away from our argument because we both know the other wont budge. Fine.

 

So help me figure out everyone else. If im really a wolf, talking about other people will help you ferret them out. If im town it will give you more to go on in the future. Your not getting a lynch with just you so until other people weigh in and add something new, talk about other reads.

 

 

How do you make the red statement and the blue statements to/about the same person?

Easy? I feel that he over comitted, either tunneling or what have you can be done as either alignment, and as such was refusing to talk to me. I recognized that the argument was going nowhere because neither of us were budging. Seeing that and that Sili was still around, I wanted to get his thoughts on other people. I dont understand the disconnect between red and blue.

 

At that point in the conversation all Sili was doing was calling me a wolf, hes a wolf, lynch the wolf, never unvoting, throw him in a hole. That kind of talk just isnt helpful. It doesnt move the game or anything forward. So I tried to get him to talk about something else because I wanted the game to move forward. I wanted to see if he was a towny tunneling me hard for stupid reasons or a wolf who went to deep and knew he couldnt back out. I didnt act like I knew he was town, I acted like I didnt know his alignment and was trying to figure it out.

 

As for the catchup post, I meant to spoiler it. It was mostly to let people know id caught up, here were some small things I noticed. Nothing was particularly wolfy or towny in the early posts imo. Atleast not on their own.

 

Also my defense against Sili is that hes twisting things, stretching things, saying I said things I didnt or phrasing them in ways that werent what I meant. Sili never even tried to understand anything he just shut me down over and over and said I am a wolf. I had to fight him tooth and nail to get him to explain anything in any sort of detail, cause Sili doesnt like explaining anything to us plebeians.

 

 

The disconnect is the red seems to suggest it was deliberate.  You're right that somebody can tunnel as either alignment, but I have never seen a townie say "ah, well, I've come this far - I have no choice but to lynch him, even though I think he's town."  If he's feeling trapped in a read, it basically means he has to be mafia.

 

And if you felt that way, it wouldn't be an issue.  But if you felt that way, why would you expect him to help you figure other people out?  I think Mafia!Sili - and probably anybody - is just going to sit and continue to attack the person they've decided they have to lynch, not try to offer the person a way out.

 

 

 

Len this is the post I was talking about in that post. I'm not saying you're trying to drag someone down. I'm saying that you are insinuating that Sili is trying to drag YOU down even though you say he thinks your town. That doesn't add

[Hallia]

Hallia

 

People I would not lynch.  Feel good about.

Clov

Zander

Lenlo

Seph

Sili

Katiora

Darthe

BFG

 

Not enough from these people:

Dice

Lily

Lizabeth

 

Null/Subbing

Thane

 

Less than comfortable with:

Wistork

 

WTL:

 

Laine - Misrep, making cases on people, and when called on what's wrong with them, uses skimming as an excuse.

Niniel - For reasoning listed, interaction in game

[wish-tree]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-1/page-51?do=findComment&comment=3663480 (part 1ish sorta)

 

 

Interestingly you point out one of the posts I had an issue with, there's no value in saying that Dice called me town as well, and saying I'm not out of mafia range is sort of redundant at this stage. In itself doesn't mean much, but as a stand alone post I didn't like it.

 

However what's the point in asking 'why choose the posts you respond to?'

 

More importantly, you quote me saying 'catch' up and give a lengthy analysis of what you think I mean by it and yet in the same post you quote me saying it's because he read ahead and so isn't reading it raw...

The point in why choose the posts you respond to is more something irt Zander's meta. This is my main problem with him, as I've stated before. As scum there's a definite delay, and there's really no order to what or who he pushes, just tons of little jabs everywhere. Here, I'm seeing a similar thing, which is why I asked the question. If Zander can explain why he chose what he did, that would make me able to reevaluate just in case I'm wrong on him. I also want to see if he can explain it, which I doubt he can. The post that you just pointed out was one of the posts that I didn't think there's a towny reason for him to point out, I don't know why he chose it out of the other posts at the time, and it feels like an implicit push on you without actually building a case or solidifying anything. That's why I noted it.

 

Another thing, lol, is that I don't do these analyses in order, I marked down the "read ahead and reading it raw" as a possible reason that you were suspecting him, but I inserted my own reason/my own analysis of what I thought you meant in the part that you called lengthy (nah, I write far lengthier things if I feel up to it), because that's why I was suspecting Zander. I wanted to hear from you what exactly you meant by read ahead and reading it raw, but I tried my best to interpret it.

[BFG]

Hallia

 

People I would not lynch.  Feel good about.

Clov

Zander

Lenlo

Seph

Sili

Katiora

Darthe

BFG

 

Not enough from these people:

Dice

Lily

Lizabeth

 

Null/Subbing

Thane

 

Less than comfortable with:

Wistork

 

WTL:

 

Laine - Misrep, making cases on people, and when called on what's wrong with them, uses skimming as an excuse.

Niniel - For reasoning listed, interaction in game

possibly my favourite none mine list yet :)

[wish-tree]

For wish

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, thanks. I think that makes sense. I find it interesting that seph talks about both you and Lainey, but you only note her/seph not being w/w. I like that you don't use this interaction to say that you and seph are never w/w, because you could have easily done that as well. I don't see mafia not taking that opportunity to set that out. May be a stretch. 

[wish-tree]

 

 

I have no read on Darthe.  He's firmly in my POE because he's done nothing to remove himself, and he's nowhere near the bottom because he hasn't done anything to draw my suspicion.  I won't vote him over Lenlo, Tina, Zander, and maybe throw Lily in there, but I'd CFD his ass in a heart beat if the counterwagon was one of the people I mentioned earlier.

 

Yeah, I have a lot of similar reads on people I put near the middle category of my reads. I'm too chicken to CFD them or vote them atm b/c I have stronger scum reads. That makes sense, I have him in about the same category.

 

Hallia I feel good about.  There's not a single post I would say couldn't come from Hallia as mafia, but her entire game total makes me feel good about her.  She's taken a few pretty strong stances, and none of her reasons seemed scummy or that they couldn't be genuine.  Her post about Alanna's stfu comment sounded REALLY pure to me.

 

So this is purely a tone read?

 

 

No.  It's a combination of tone, content, and meta.  Probably in that order.

 

Okay, got it. 

[Zander?]

 

I know.  Was kinda my point.

 

 

...Then I have no idea what point you're making.  

 

Are you saying I ought to think it's a good sign you seem to disagree with me on almost everything of value so far?

 

 

No.

 

Im saying you shouldnt ASSUME its bad where we think and process things completely different.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

I like thia post because as Scum imo she'd have the opportunity to push at least someone from this list.

 

Can you elaborate on the Bold? 

 

Yes... to elaborate... From what they're saying neither one of them particularly think the other is scum. They're just arguing about phonetics lol They don't agree.. they should, to use something else.. LET IT GOOOOO LET IT GOOOOOOOOOO 

 

 

I mean more along the liines of you think its T/T?

 

Or like do you feel ONE of them has an agenda?

 

 

I think it's POSSIBLE both of them have an agenda or one, or neither... At this point though it doesn't matter. The fights killing the thread and I don't think it's good for town regardless of their alignment. It's one thing to have a few post argument or if you legitimately think you have a scum and are going after them. It's something else entirely if you're just arguing because you wanna look right and go on for PAGES and ignore everything and everyone else. 

 

 

What did you think of Chris's correct comment about him Scum reading and voting Lenlo?

 

... your'e really going to make me search through 64 pages of stuff.. i remember the comment, kinda... but it was during one of those altercations where my brain partially shut down... lemme find the quote... 

 

Ok.. first off what do you mean by "correct comment" I don't understand the question fully. 

 

I understand his vote on lenlo, and I don't disagree with his reasoning. But I'm not SOLD on his reasoning. I agree that a town would never say "Well i've gone this far might as well screw town over and keep draggin this towny to the lynch" If town does that then they is bad town and they no need to be here lol. He acted like he knew that Sili was town and trying to drag him down. He even said "if i'm wolf" I wouldn't say that... ever.. I never want you to associate me with a wolf... no if.. I'm not. just how it is. So I see his point. But idk... though the more I type it out and think about it the more sense it makes.. lol 

 

 

Correct mean that he was Scum reading and voting Lenlo.

 

ok.

[Lenlo]

 

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

I'd be fine with a lynch Niniel or Zander at this point too, but the disconnect between what Lenlo claims to be thinking and what he's saying just doesn't seem natural.  It's not exactly backtracking, because he didn't take a stance, but it seems like he's twisting his own words to mean something different (or nothing?).  Even now, I have no idea where he's at with Sili, and a lot of what he said makes me think he ought to be actively PUSHING Sili.  

 

 

I still don't feel better about Lenlo than I did before, though.  His defense against Sili basically boils down to the fact that Lenlo didn't say anybody was scummy, verbatim.  He's not wrong...but I don't see why Sili SHOULDN'T have read into Lenlo's post that way.  Saying somebody 'seems off' has a certain connotation to it.  It's no different than saying somebody 'sounds good'.  

 

So again, if Lenlo honestly WASN'T trying to imply a...lack of towniness?... he made that catch up post to contribute nothing.

 

And the entire time he was going back and forth with Sili over the same points, he still didn't really give any opinions that MATTER.  Even when he was saying Sili seemed like an over-committed wolf, Lenlo still treated him like he knew Sili was town.

 

 

Like, im trying to understand where your coming from and your reasons. But all your doing is hardlining against me and refusing me at almost every turn. Its not the attitude id expect of someone trying to solve the game, but rather someone who had over committed to a wolf read and knows theres no backing out now. Rather then discussing it and your other reads with me your shutting it down and saying "piss off wolf".

 

Cmon dude. Not talking aint gonna resolve/solve anything.

 

 

 

Like, im trying to understand where your coming from and your reasons. But all your doing is hardlining against me and refusing me at almost every turn. Its not the attitude id expect of someone trying to solve the game, but rather someone who had over committed to a wolf read and knows theres no backing out now. Rather then discussing it and your other reads with me your shutting it down and saying "piss off wolf".

 

Cmon dude. Not talking aint gonna resolve/solve anything.

I don't want to be stuck here for another 3 hours trying to communicate with a wolf when the wolf is intent on not understanding anything.

 

Quit it with the narrative. Im trying to move away from our argument because we both know the other wont budge. Fine.

 

So help me figure out everyone else. If im really a wolf, talking about other people will help you ferret them out. If im town it will give you more to go on in the future. Your not getting a lynch with just you so until other people weigh in and add something new, talk about other reads.

 

 

How do you make the red statement and the blue statements to/about the same person?

Easy? I feel that he over comitted, either tunneling or what have you can be done as either alignment, and as such was refusing to talk to me. I recognized that the argument was going nowhere because neither of us were budging. Seeing that and that Sili was still around, I wanted to get his thoughts on other people. I dont understand the disconnect between red and blue.

 

At that point in the conversation all Sili was doing was calling me a wolf, hes a wolf, lynch the wolf, never unvoting, throw him in a hole. That kind of talk just isnt helpful. It doesnt move the game or anything forward. So I tried to get him to talk about something else because I wanted the game to move forward. I wanted to see if he was a towny tunneling me hard for stupid reasons or a wolf who went to deep and knew he couldnt back out. I didnt act like I knew he was town, I acted like I didnt know his alignment and was trying to figure it out.

 

As for the catchup post, I meant to spoiler it. It was mostly to let people know id caught up, here were some small things I noticed. Nothing was particularly wolfy or towny in the early posts imo. Atleast not on their own.

 

Also my defense against Sili is that hes twisting things, stretching things, saying I said things I didnt or phrasing them in ways that werent what I meant. Sili never even tried to understand anything he just shut me down over and over and said I am a wolf. I had to fight him tooth and nail to get him to explain anything in any sort of detail, cause Sili doesnt like explaining anything to us plebeians.

 

 

The disconnect is the red seems to suggest it was deliberate.  You're right that somebody can tunnel as either alignment, but I have never seen a townie say "ah, well, I've come this far - I have no choice but to lynch him, even though I think he's town."  If he's feeling trapped in a read, it basically means he has to be mafia.

 

And if you felt that way, it wouldn't be an issue.  But if you felt that way, why would you expect him to help you figure other people out?  I think Mafia!Sili - and probably anybody - is just going to sit and continue to attack the person they've decided they have to lynch, not try to offer the person a way out.

 

 

 

Len this is the post I was talking about in that post. I'm not saying you're trying to drag someone down. I'm saying that you are insinuating that Sili is trying to drag YOU down even though you say he thinks your town. That doesn't add

I never said I thought he thought I was town...

[wish-tree]

Also, Zander, now that I'm actually going through and not meta/tone reading you off for your entrances, can you respond to what I've asked?

 

I have questions that I'm posting in around an hour

[Zander?]

For you Zander:

 

7. You may roleclaim or character claim whatever you please. Mafia will be provided fakeclaims.

and hey! There is nothing wrong with your band .

 

 

its complete Garbage imo.

[wish-tree]

Lenlo pls

[Clovdyx]

 

Hallia

 

People I would not lynch.  Feel good about.

Clov

Zander

Lenlo

Seph

Sili

Katiora

Darthe

BFG

 

Not enough from these people:

Dice

Lily

Lizabeth

 

Null/Subbing

Thane

 

Less than comfortable with:

Wistork

 

WTL:

 

Laine - Misrep, making cases on people, and when called on what's wrong with them, uses skimming as an excuse.

Niniel - For reasoning listed, interaction in game

possibly my favourite none mine list yet :)

 

 

Yeah, mine, too.

 

 

 

But really?

[wish-tree]

stop the bickering and give me info