Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Volume Concerns: An Open Discussion


Cory Caboose

Recommended Posts

Posted

Just wanted to bring up something a lot of us have discussed in private or in various threads and maybe spitball some ideas on how to make the Mafia Forum more inclusive to different playstyles and players.

 

Over the past two years, the typical volume of Mafia games here have ballooned for a multitude a reasons; one being that the Mafia community itself has started to become a large, multi-forum community with the Champions series of games, bringing players in from larger volume communities and changing the standard for newer players, another being the shift in focus from night action and lynch-related reads to a thread-related reads for a lot of the player base.

 

As someone who originated from a very low-volume forum, I too remember when you could allot maybe 10-15 minutes every other day playing a Mafia game and still have little trouble keeping current. Nowadays, that amount of time probably wouldn't get you through a third of the game thread, and I understand that this has caused some grief and disconnect.

 

The counter to this is the increased level of competition in games isn't something I think should be dissuaded. Just as there are players who are more casual in nature, there are many that are high-effort and very involved in games (including myself), and I don't think it's fair to place the blame on them. Basically:

A) Finding to way to limit the volume of games will lead us to be more inclusive and force less "lower content" types out of playing here. While 10-15 minutes every other day may not be a possibility anymore, I don't see any reasons why something like 45-1hr/day wouldn't be possible and I think that's manageable for most players. Finding a way to control volume and make threads more readable for the less hyperactive players would help resource that time and give each player a better chance of contributing. Some of this is self-policing, but maybe we can come up with better ideas.

 

B) Discouraging players from being highly involved / interested is something I at least believe is bad for the game. Just as there are people who would prefer lower volume games, there are people who have a lot to say and are very committed and I think that's a wonderful thing. Many of us have had moments where we felt we were "in the zone" and wanted to get our thoughts out there and make an impact, and that probably leads to volume increases in general. I think that's fine, as it is essentially a text-based educated guessing game.

 

So how do we do A without doing B? I have some ideas, but they probably aren't all that great, so that's why we are having an open discussion :P

 

Here's some things:

 

A] Create a new queue of "casual" games with firm rules on things like post-count limitations and etc. for more manageable games.

PROS: Will create games for "lower volume" players with manageable threads.

 

CONS: Is kind of exclusive and segregates the player base to some deal; requires more effort on the part of moderators; DM games don't fill quickly so adding a third queue might strangle how fast games fill; having multiple ongoing games tends to lead to game integrity issues.

 

B] Have games with real day / game day post-count limitations.

 

PROS: Has most of the benefits of A with significantly less drawbacks. I've run and participated in these in other forums (usually something like 100 posts per game day maximum) and they usually are manageable and enjoyable.

 

CONS: Enforcement and game balance. Usually games with post-count limitations cannot have majority lynch for gameplay reasons I can discuss if necessary.

 

C] For the love of god, trim multiquotes when you are responding to a quote. If you are addressing a specific thing, cut out everything but what you are addressing and anything that requires context for it. This one's a no-brainer and just being considerate. This doesn't do much for game volume, but it will at least make the thread more readable.

PROS: Yes

 

CONS: No

 

---

 

These might not be very good ideas (IDKIDK) but I wanted to see if we could get a discussion rolling. Any ideas or commentary would be appreciated.

 

I also have some general ideas on how to get better mileage out of your time in game threads that are too long to read (as someone who's subbed into games with 10,000+ posts having read nothing, lol) if that's something anyone wants to discuss.

 

- Corky

  • Replies 378
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Posted

This is very well thought out and said, Cory. I for one am not the most voluble, but I would never be angry at someone because they were, any more than I would someone who wasn't. Blaming either side isn't right, and I think you raise some good options, and a sounding board for ideas.

Posted
  On 3/17/2016 at 5:38 PM, Clovdyx said:

Quote trimming saves lives.

Ummmmmm :unsure:

 

I play on mobile and tablet. Trimming multiquotes takes me many minutes (literally if it's a long MQ) using delete on tablet, and loses me the stuff that I want to say on my mobile when it tries to be clever. If it's horribly long I'll either post a page number (no post numbers on mobile), or spoiler the unwanted bits (takes seconds)

 

Formatting posts takes me far too long and is mostly unenjoyable. I don't really see myself doing anything other than what I've said tbh :(

 

Volume wise I don't think there's much that 'can' be done. The only time that I really have issues when catching up is when you see a repeat of the exact same argument from 3 people that were involved in the discussion to begin with and 5 other people who are commenting as they catch up, one or two is fine but when there are lots of people saying the same ting it gets tedious. BUT this is a play style choice of lots of people and is a way or getting reads on many people, so I don't know if there's a solution there either.

 

I also don't think it's been an issue for a while so... lol!me? I have to admit that I skimmed the afternoon posts (20 pages or so) looking for votes in the last game so I may well have missed stuff, but I didn't see many people 'catching up' as they go. It was mostly IT interaction, I don't think there's a way to limit that.

 

And I say this KNOWING that I'm guilty of all the above, I've tried to change styles a little, sometimes more successfully than others :p

 

 

 

 

I think maybe we need to adjust our thoughts on what a large/mid/small game is. Fewer players, fewer posts. The games that take a while to fill are the 15 player plus ones, because with current average volumes that's now a very large game that not many people can commit the time to :/ and even if that's not the case, that's the perception so

 

Dunno really

Posted
  On 3/17/2016 at 6:19 PM, BFG said:

 

Ummmmmm :unsure:

 

I play on mobile and tablet. Trimming multiquotes takes me many minutes (literally if it's a long MQ) using delete on tablet, and loses me the stuff that I want to say on my mobile when it tries to be clever. If it's horribly long I'll either post a page number (no post numbers on mobile), or spoiler the unwanted bits (takes seconds)

 

Formatting posts takes me far too long and is mostly unenjoyable. I don't really see myself doing anything other than what I've said tbh :(

 

I feel ya there. I've tried cutting quotes while on my phone before and sometimes it works (while taking forever) and sometimes you lose everything. :( 

Posted
  On 3/17/2016 at 6:21 PM, cory caboose said:

Instead of quoting a multi-quote if you are addressing something, why not just @ that player?

:dry: I just said I do that <3

 

It really depends on the quote, how specific the response is and how I'm feeling

  • Moderator
Posted

Thanks for this thread, Cory - good idea.

 

 

  On 3/17/2016 at 5:29 PM, cory caboose said:

B] Have games with real day / game day post-count limitations.

 

PROS: Has most of the benefits of A with significantly less drawbacks. I've run and participated in these in other forums (usually something like 100 posts per game day maximum) and they usually are manageable and enjoyable.

 

CONS: Enforcement and game balance. Usually games with post-count limitations cannot have majority lynch for gameplay reasons I can discuss if necessary.

 

Personally, I think this is a good solution.  I know it is done on POG, and I think we could implement that here without too much of an issue.  Although I don't see why you can't have majority lynch with post count limitations - can you expound on that one more for me?

Posted

Speaking from past experience, rereading a thread used to be easy, now it's a chore that I typically don't have the time for anymore. Makes the game feel more like work going back and trying to catch a slip in someone's posts. Also, when I've been gone for a day, or a few hours and come back to over 100 posts, it's discouraging to try to read it all. 

 

I don't know what to fix it though. 

Posted

If people went the PC limit/day thing I'd suggest having a N0 where the PC restriction is lifted. Simply because start of game is typically fluffy, but it's needed and is fun :)

Posted

Pretty much what Laine said. Specifically hitting your post count limit disallows you from changing your vote in a majority situation or achieving a lynch in a hybrid format, which I don't think should be discouraged.

The first solution to this was "you can still vote after hitting the post count limit", but this can easily be abused.

 

The way POG does it is much smarter, I think: you have set deadlines and then the post count restriction is lifted 30 minutes to EoD so that people can achieve a lynch or get the lynch they want without having to be worried all day about hitting their limit. So people technically surpass the "limit" at times, but they have a very limited amount of time so it's usually not significant.

  • Moderator
Posted
  On 3/17/2016 at 6:26 PM, alannalynn said:

Verbal I would guess since we generally don't achieve a lynch until right at deadline or CFD that if someone has hit their post limit, they cannot switch over for majority?

 

Hybrid hammer helps that

 

As well as self-policing your own post count, I guess.  I don't want people to feel like they need to hardly post, but when you say the same thing 10 times within the span of 5 pages, it really doesn't add anything but "bulk" to the game (IMO).

  • Moderator
Posted
  On 3/17/2016 at 6:31 PM, cory caboose said:

Pretty much what Laine said. Specifically hitting your post count limit disallows you from changing your vote in a majority situation or achieving a lynch in a hybrid format, which I don't think should be discouraged.

 

The first solution to this was "you can still vote after hitting the post count limit", but this can easily be abused.

 

The way POG does it is much smarter, I think: you have set deadlines and then the post count restriction is lifted 30 minutes to EoD so that people can achieve a lynch or get the lynch they want without having to be worried all day about hitting their limit. So people technically surpass the "limit" at times, but they have a very limited amount of time so it's usually not significant.

 

That sounds reasonable (lifting the limit before DL).  Some mod should just try this out and see how it works here for our playerbase.

Posted

Basically while the post count restriction is there to limit volume, it's not there to change effect the lynch.

 

And yes, self-policing is part of that, but that can only do so much. I know I try to limit my own post count a lot but always end up exceeding it  :sad:

Posted
  On 3/17/2016 at 6:33 PM, Verbal32 said:

That sounds reasonable (lifting the limit before DL).  Some mod should just try this out and see how it works here for our playerbase.

 

I would, in two years when it's my turn on the queue  :tongue:

  • Moderator
Posted

Well, here's the thing.  If we do nothing, then some players just won't end up playing much.  As that is probably the minority, I don't think it is that big of a deal.

 

Take me, for instance.  I can't keep up with that level of activity like I used to be able to.  So if we do nothing, I'll:

 

1) Probably only play in games that are 13 or less players, unless

 

2) there are notoriously high post count players in the 13er, in which case I'll have to pass on that one

Posted

Verbal who do I have to pay off to get us a higher post count per page BTW? I think one thing that magnifies the problem is the 20 post per page limit.

 

I don't know if this is an Invision Power related limitation by nature, but people have told me the limit used to be bigger.

  • Moderator
Posted

^ which is a bummer, because there are players I won't be able to play with when they are together, which would both greatly limit the # of games I can join, and also not allow me to play with certain other people that I might like playing with (but can't because they only play with XYZ players that are super high post count players).

 

But that is my problem, not "yours".

Posted

Perhaps it should just be moderator choice to have a limit on post counts or not and play a game based on that. That way we're not squeezing everyone into that same bucket of being "restricted" but those who can and want a PC limited game can play where they want but we can still have those games where massive post counts are allowed. It would give everyone a chance to play in the style they choose and they'll know what type of game it is going in.

  • Moderator
Posted
  On 3/17/2016 at 6:39 PM, cory caboose said:

Verbal who do I have to pay off to get us a higher post count per page BTW? I think one thing that magnifies the problem is the 20 post per page limit.

 

I don't know if this is an Invision Power related limitation by nature, but people have told me the limit used to be bigger.

 

It used to be more, but it is now limited as far as I know.  I'll ask.

 

 

But does it really matter?  100 posts in 5 pages or in 1 page is still 100 posts.

Posted

I dont think post count restriction would help much at all. I just see it causing way more huge multi-quote responses that require 5 minutes alone to read.

 

I dont care if someone like Zander has 300 posts bc I can read them quickly. I far prefer that to enormous analysis posts. I already skip them for my sanity.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...