the Hunt for the Dragon Reborn [Standard Mafia] Game Over town wins

[Shad_]

Anyway, boo's finally asleep and I'm going to bed, looking forward to Thane's response in the morning.

[Shad_]

 

 

I feel a tunnel coming on. Choo choo Turin?

I'm pretty mixed/confused on him actually.

There's just too many weird things that make no sense to me as a villager. My vote is going there tomorrow regardless, and if he flips wolf, the last could be Sooh. (Granted I haven't looked at Verbal at all, but from what I hear there isn't much)

 

 

I think he might have more 3p equity than scum equity.

[alannalynn]

We'll have to see

 

Goodnight Shad you lucky sleeper

 

I stayed up playing this stupid game all day and now I have to do homework before class in ~4 hours

[Shad_]

I think he might have more 3p equity than scum equity.

Historically when I think someone is 3p they're usually just town being weird.

 

One was scum.

 

Never actually 'caught' a 3p unless Nolder in WoW counts. Lenlo in NBC really doesn't count.

[Shad_]

We'll have to see

 

Goodnight Shad you lucky sleeper

 

I stayed up playing this stupid game all day and now I have to do homework before class in ~4 hours

My ass. It's 4am when my body's been used to going to bed by 1 lately, and I have dreams about these stupid games that wake me up every hour.

[Thane Vakarian]

 

Calder is in the bottom due to my other townreads... Looking through his posts, I'm just not able to clear him. Can't tell if he's joking or trolling at times...

What do you make of his actions concerning Dice?

 

Mixed, to be honest. If i look at my own comments concerning Dice.... Well, sure he was at my bottom, but i still had some doubts if he actually was one. FTR, i did miss DL due to work and being stuck in traffic on my way home from my 12 hour shift.

 

Come tomorrow, i'll try to make sense of Calder. Keep me to that, please.

[alannalynn]

 

We'll have to see

 

Goodnight Shad you lucky sleeper

 

I stayed up playing this stupid game all day and now I have to do homework before class in ~4 hours

My ass. It's 4am when my body's been used to going to bed by 1 lately, and I have dreams about these stupid games that wake me up every hour.

Haha you should hear about my Monday, it was awful. So I woke up at 3pm on Sunday, went to work at 6-11, stayed up studying, had classes 8am to 2pm and then homework/errands. Work 6pm to 5am. I was so tired at work Monday night that I kept falling asleep where I was standing and I was stumbling and dizzy. I left work at 2am and ended up sleeping in my car for about an hour before actually getting to drive home this morning where I passed out.

 

And yet I didn't learn any lessons and here I am staying up all night again.

[Thane Vakarian]

go.to.bed.... it'd be the smart thing to do, right?

[alannalynn]

Still have one more assignment to do. At least I finished Econ!

[Thane Vakarian]

congrats

 

need coffee?

[alannalynn]

Probably. But let's not push it. I don't want to be up ALL day, just enough to make it through these two classes LOL

[Thane Vakarian]

I think I'll have more coffee than you will today

 

I'll check Calder when I can, busy morning and late shift at work *nods* (by tomorrow, i was actually thinking 'in game', as in, 'when night is over'   )

[Niniel]

I slept a lot last night. I´m almost not tired today. Yay! I have been too little involved in this game and now I´m way behind. I´ve read the thread but there is so much that I can´t follow. I will try to do some work after day starts. Or I will just sheep Cory. :D

[Turin Turambar]

Cory part 1:

 

 

 

 

I have a little doubt on you still because the way you are handling my slot. Your words are saying you aren't interested in lynching me but I seem to keep showing up in your PoE.

 

You doubt me because I have a middling villager read on you and stronger villager reads on others?

 

Because it's a 13er I can have 6 people in my PoE. Who do you think I should have you higher than in Shad/Zander/Hallia/Darthe/Thane/Tina?

 

It isn't just that you have other people higher than me. I can deal with being in the lynch pool. My biggest problem is that you seem to be looking at the things and coming to the conclusion that I really am town but then leaving that out to push at me. Then when I flip town you get to go "whelp, he really was a villager after all". I've been buddy pushed before. Hell Shad did it not to long ago. I don't remember the game but I remember my first or second post into the DT being "that awful feeling when you just KNOW the mafia piled on to lynch you".  That is the feeling I am getting right now. You giving me the willies Cory. I can't shake it right now.  

 

Considering that I have these 3 in my wtl and I KNOW that I am town I would like to be above them. Shad is very smooth and did some work on the Dice lynch so I can see why you could be reading him town. I may just be unwilling to let go on my suspicion because I find that when I do I end up letting mafia go. Thane has done literally NOHTING to justify his town read that I can see. Hallia hasn't done very much either. Her vote was parked on me most of the day and she just sort of slid into the Dice wagon. 

 

Turin's still very probably a villager I think, but his obsfucation and complete disconnect from the rest of the game are universal enough bad signs that I'd be hesitant to remove him from the PoE ever.

 

He cannot be allowed to win as a wolf on the very off-chance he is one, because that would be disgusting.

 

I don't think it's necessary wolfy he thought the Dice lynch was DADV, but the fact that he doesn't seem to even care about what it means for the game regardless is something I'll never understand.

I understand I don't think like he does, but I at least try to get inside his head.

 

His response to the lynch was exactly a begruding "well it might make you and Zander more likely to be villagers, bleh" type deal.

Bold, BUT....

Underlined: I don't get this. Again you are saying that I'm most likely town BUT...

 

It was one piece of information. We still have the night to go. I have the impression that I may not live the night. If that is the case then I'm not gonna worry about what it means. TBH I want to see what some other people think. I have seen more than one comment about how it means the "town core" is solid. This scares the hell out of me. Because if I'm right and there is someone is entrenched then D3 or D4 is gonna come up and there will be all the " if Z is a wolf then I don't mind losing to them" cause no one wanted to question enough at the start of the game.

 

Like I just don't get it.

 

It's pretty well-known that Dice is someone I read very well. I specifically remember Turin watched me annihilate him in the Death of Meta game after subbing in and commented on it. He's not unaware of this.

 

I spend a great deal of my time never letting Dice slip away from the day's lynch and he's like "DADV, probably".

 

Dice flips exactly what I said he'd flip, and he goes "Well I still doubt Cory because he doesn't seem to want to villager read me".

 

I have literally no use for that.

It's not all about you Cory. Right now it feels to me like you are looking hard at me primarily because I am not willing to follow you. Town leaders shouldn't be demanding fealty. You are acting like Frank Underwood. "Follow or Die!!!"

 

You are the one that has said that you can read me easily. I didn't say that. I will have my bit of suspicion because I am always suspicious that good players will trick me and the rest of the town. That is why I rarely give Darthe as much town cred as he might deserve. I KNOW from experience that he will say and do anything as a wolf to win. 

 

As far as DADV goes. YOU asked what I was thinking. There hadn't been a real counter train at all during the day. I don't like D1 to go without competing trains. I had the thought it could be. At that point it was pretty certain that Dice WAS going to get lynched. There was no support for anyone I wanted to push and I was out of time to make such a push. Like it was family time.  

 

And I guess the most frustrating part is that all of this is probably more likely to come from him as a villager somehow. I know that's true because I have enough familiarity with his wolfgame to realize it's a great deal safer than this.

 

I don't understand him at all.

Again I am most likely a villager. My play doesn't match my "safe" wolf game. The info is telling you that I'm town but you are insisting on pushing me. Maybe if you want me to trust you on your Shad read, you should trust yourself on your Turin read. Cause If you don't trust yourself on a read that I KNOW the answer to then why should I trust you on a read to which I don't know the answer.

 

And like, I get that Turin as a villager might be a little unhappy that he spent most of his day picking at the "town core" and specifically me/Shad/Zander and then having them basically come together to lead a lynch and have it hit a mafioso he thought was a villager because it means at least a decent portion of his thoughts were misguided.

 

And maybe he's right about something I'm not so it's not like I'll be perfect either.

 

But ffs he has zero interest in even working with me.

I can be very wrong and stubborn. Never gonna debate this. But if everyone just goes along with the same thoughts and doesn't consider other possibilities then mafia gonna win a lot IMO.

 

Fwiw, I think he's scum.

I put this in because it is evidence of Hallia just jumping in and +1ing someone. I think you might want to look here again.

 

In before it's just Laine/Verbal and all of this pursuit of Turin/Sooh was misguided.

 

Turin's going back on my radar in a big way, because I refuse to let him beat me if he's a wolf. I haven't scrutinized enough there, and I'm 100% ready to dig into his game more and figure him out completely so I can own his soul in any future game.

You refuse to let me beat you as a wolf. This sounds like you still don't believe I am a wolf but are determined to find something that will let you push a lynch on me. Or maybe will just force of personality it through.

 

You will never own my soul because someone else already does so I am safe. 

 

Like, you want me to dedicate my entire consciousness and energy into memorizing and observing every little tic and tac that you do as a villager or wolf so that I can out you when I'm playing against you? Get on my nerves.

 

Nolder made that mistake in World's End as a gambit to try and get my head out of the game and look where it got him there.

 

That's a tactic that's been used on me a hundred times in my career and it used to work but now it's just a massive backfire. I will figure you out.

 

I'll try to keep a tab up but I am going to read Turin's last however many games until I know what to look for fully.

 

If he's a wolf in this game you will know.

I think you already know that I'm not. I'm not sure why you seem to have so much confusion.

 

Um, major post fix:

 

Just to make myself clear, my frustration with Turin Turambar comes 100% from the fact that I lack the aptitude to understand some of his actions and it's hard for me to put the pieces together with him sometimes. There are times where I can read him pretty well but this clearly isn't one of them and it just frustrates me.

 

It's not at all a slight against him, so I don't want to hear any griping that I'm being mean to Turin or w/e was going on in the Supernatural game that everyone freaked about. I'm trying to read his slot better because it's my job to make the most correct reads possible. We have incredibly different playstyles and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

I'm not so much critiquing his thought process as trying to understand whether or not it's coming from a genuine place.

 

I hit post before ending two sentences.

 

lolcory

It seems weird to me that these two sentences are unfinished. Actually the second one was re-edited. I will not make a judgement about it until I hear his response to my questions below. 

 

I don't get where there would be any need to even reference the Supernatural thing. That was a case of "town core" deciding that I needed to go and didn't really care if I was town or not.  

 

 

 

Questions for Cory:

When you asked me about Dice and I answered DADV do you agree that it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that Dice was getting lynched? Does it make ANY sense for me as a wolf to make that comment if I knew Dice was gonna flip mafia? 

On the last post, did you take one paragraph and turn it into two? 

 

In what way do you want me to "work with you"?

[Sooh]

 

 

 

Right now what are your snap reads of everyone? Just say who.you legit think is town or mafia. Feel free to leave out the nulls. I'm curious.

 

Right now I will say I am suspicious of all the people that say things like "hopefully we will read each other right" or things like that.

 

Hallia, Shad, Thane jumping into the 4 v's.

 

I actually lean town on Sooh for the controversial post. I just don't see her making that post as mafia. Too likely to draw negative attention.

 

I think rest null. But only on phone so might have missed something.

 

I think Sooh drew negative attention by accident and the 'controversial' post came later, so I'm intensely null on it.  I have some silly gut thoughts that certain people are town, and they really aren't worth sharing atp.

 

Why not share your "silly thoughts"? 

You seem to be locked in about the one post questioning too early town reading/buddying/"backslapping". I still don't see why Sooh questioning the early interaction is so troubling. Explain please?

 

 

Because I (and Zander) felt she should have known better.  If she's town, then hey, she didn't and I can pocket that information for future games.

 

But like, when was the last game Zander as either alignment did not call Cory or Laine lock town or Lenlo lock scum within the first 5 minutes?

 

I expect Sooh to recognize that, to a degree that I'm wary she might have been faking but not prepared to call her scum for it.  I don't necessarily expect you to.  But why were you so concerned with me yet seemingly pretty comfortable with Zander when he was the one you thought had been dead serious about soul reading Cory lock town?

 

Noting that several people, jokingly or not, called Cory town straight from the get-go was something I wanted a response to. If that response is "It was a joke." then I will note that response and work with the information accordingly. If the answer is "you should know better", I'm not liking that response. That requires me to make assumptions about people, assumptions which they later can refute. I don't want to assume in mafia. I want to know.

[Turin Turambar]

Cory Part 2:

 

 

I'm actually pretty confident on Thane and he's another person I've always read well.

 

He's one of those monstr types that tends to be a hard read for everyone except me for some reason.

please explain your thought process for you Thane read if you can.

 

Ugh

 

I think Turin really is just a villager

Villager

 

Actually nevermind

 

He could totally be a wolf

two minutes later ... retracts that statement and replaces it with might be a wolf.

 

 

Ugh
 
I think Turin really is just a villager

Felt super villagery early on. Although I also thought he was a girl at that point lol.

 

Included cause had to LOL. It must be the fuzzy avatar

 

Like there's two really big elements of his game you can see between Chrono Trigger and his villager games (I read Friends, Supernatural and Warcraft)

 

As a wolf he generally tries to hide behind large "player" ISOs where he reads a bunch of player posts, comments and asks questions. He does this extremely often as a wolf and I remember that was one the reasons I had a jump on him reading Chrono Trigger. He is less driven to interact and when he does it's mostly fluff around those MQs where his "real gameplay" is. He asks a lot of questions, specifically to focus people away from him.

 

His villager game has a lot of bite and is very non-compliant, generally giving flack to players, interacting, having very large WTLs containing most of the game, is just sort of eccentric and literally tunes out everything except what he's thinking.

 

This game is completely mixed. His neck's out a little more here than it was in CT and he's a bit more willing to pick fights and his posting has been mostly serious (something absent in his wolf games barring the MQs and ISOs), but he's just way more villagery in the other villager games. There's a pronounced difference.

Here, I can see shades of his villager game but it's not all there.

I came to a similar conclusion when I ISO'd him last night so not entirely sure why I thought I'd come with a different conclusion. His short term posting in American Gods helped me shore up his general wolf strategy / what he tries to accomplish, but I don't see a drastic difference here.

I don't know. I wish I had a more confident read on that slot.

some examples to support this take please.

 

Also, in American Gods I replaced into a slot that was nearly universally mafia read so I had to fight for my life first and also push a town lynch at what was basically lylo IIRC. It was push hard or basically die and lose.  

 

I have a ~secret read~ I don't want to share right now.

 

I'm confident in it and you'll get it before the end of night because I noticed something I didn't before and it drastically changed my opinion of someone.

 

I'll let you all stew for now 

are there POE TAY TOES in the stew?

 

I think one major difference is that Villager!Turin constantly gives out his WTLs and is interested in the lynch and constantly remarks on gameflow, who he feels will be lynched, and what he feels people should do.

 

He's not really doing that at all here. He didn't seem to care about the d1 lynch, wasting his vote on Shad despite it being meaningless and never really trying to get anyone to vote Shad.

 

He didn't talk to me about Shad once either, which is weird for me because as long as Shad was on my village list d1 he was never getting lynched. He really hasn't talked or interacted with me at all. Maybe like once or twice over mostly inane things.

 

His early bit of posting was okay and looked more like Villager!Turin but his content really dropped off a cliff d1 and he's super uninvolved.

Re Shad: I voted who I thought was mafia. I thought I gave my reasons. Everyone else was pretty much going Dice.I didn't agree with the Dice train because IMO Dice has a personal ethic that overrides his  gameplay and I felt that was triggered and that it became irrelevant that he ended up being mafia because I thought he was being ran up for his stance on an out of game issue. I can see where it caused him to not talk about other things because he was derailled/tilted pick a word. Basically he couldn't see straight because his honor code (if you will. I still don't think that part was fake) was tripped. It has happened to me before and I have seen it happen to other people.  

Activity. I post when I can. I am in the middle of applying for my further leave to remain in the UK right now so priorities. Also I am now in UK so the time most of my posts happen (7 am - 1230 pm GMT) is 2 am to 530 am for you Cory. 

 

Turin was a wolf in the last game here - Chrono Trigger. His ISO is pretty short and his game has changed over the past couple months.

Give it a look if you can.

Turin was also town in his previous 3-4 games here. mislynched D1, killed N1, mislynched D2, IIRC. Raad the DT of those games if you want also. The CT one as well and you will see how Cory states I am an easy read for him. Except now that he is actually in the game with me... 

 

If Verbal's slot is a wolf we should be golden

If not this game is going to get harder

Agreed. A verb wolf flip gives a lot more wiggle room to get the rest right. 

 

 

 

Here it feels like Cory is working towards calling me a wolf. I have a thought about this but I am not sure what to make of it yet. gonna hope I live tonight and might expand in the morning. If I die then you will see I was town and might be willing to take a harder look at the people I am suspecting. 

 

I see that there are more people with questions for me. Laine next I  think. Hopefully will get to Shad after.

[Cory Caboose]

Just going to say outright I'm not answering your questions.

 

"It seems you know I'm a villager but want to call me a wolf!!!"

 

Okay Turin.

[Turin Turambar]

Alanna Part 1:

I was gonna start from the beginning but changed my mind to just start at her ISO on me and add whatever after I can fit in. I hope I don't have to delete much on the end but we shall see. Actually, taking out all the rest for now and will address other things later.

TURIN ISO
LINK  1. This one is throwing me off because of the Shad suspicion. Nothing had happened besides him coming in and joining the v/v/v circle, saying he was excited to play, and wanting to play tanks. I can see where you commented on "backslapping" and him seeming overeager but I also feel like this "bad feeling" read on Shad so early is a little awkward.

Link  2. Would like to note he comes right out defending Sooh and taking a stance against Zander asking him why he's voting her for something that's her opinion and Zander's actions can be interpreted a different way. I don't exactly see in any world where people town-core right out the gate and refuse to adjust reads. I know that Zander/me tend to read each other quickly and often at start of game but there's always an adjustment period. And if someone is lock-cleared at start of game for little reason, there is no way it's ever serious.
 

 

Cory

3. This is Zander's second post of the game and nothing has happened. How does anyone take this seriously??

Also a note that Turin seems a nervous about the green team. Link

Link 4. Linking this because of the inside quote of Thane's irt Dice. The wording is weird. Instead of "are you town, why?" it's "are you wolf, why not?" Being that Dice flipped wolf, it's something to look at both Thane and Turin for. Thane because the wording is awkward and Turin because he pointed it out for that precise reason. Turin's next post has a little more on Thane but I'm more curious to see if Thane responds/Turin follows up. [spoiler alert: Turin asks this question three times (see below) but I don't see where Thane responds or it leads anywhere]

He brings this post up 3 times on the first page of his ISO trying to point attention at Thane's wording irt wolf!Dice. THANE: Did you ever respond to this?!

Link 5. Turin's entire two WoTs on Shad rely on the assumption that four people are going to buddy up at start of game and town read each other for zero reason and make the town come crashing town because of deep wolves. He's villianizing Cory/Shad/Zander/Thane(?) for doing the early game buddy buddy routine in case there's a wolf there yet clearing Dice's view supporting Sooh because he' can get distracted by out of game talk.

Reads List:

9. Dice: slight town- His stance on Z/Sooh is totally null to me. I do want him back in here also and giving more thoughts.

6. I'm pretty sure all of Dice's game at this point was non-game related yet he has a slight town lean here. And then like, Shad is his top suspect because of this:

5. Shad: mafia- I still think that he was the main party in the early stuff that read to me like he was attempting to create a "let's all town read each other" vibe.

7. Which I feel is flawed reasoning. Why would a wolf want to create an environment where townies can easily read each other? You're saying that Shad is trying to deepwolf everyone and he's spreading the buddy buddy atmosphere but his entrance into the game, to me, was just friendly and jokey like /most/ games are at the start. I'm not sure where you're getting either of these reads from, tbh.

8. You also have Thane really low because of "too much fluff" but I haven't looked in that direction enough to decide yet, so I'm getting there. And Darthe is mafia lean because that's where you start him? WHAT? Why? He's been pretty obv villager so far this game. Other reads I generally understand. Explain a little more on Shad, Dice, Thane, Darthe though please.

Linky 9. Did you have to read Zander town here because you were also reading Dice town?

LinkyLink 10. There's a certain way that I want to read this which makes sense and makes me want to read Turin wolf. Imagine you join a game and you see this "clique" or "town core" forming which is extremely dangerous and you're going to take it seriously. You want to break it up. What do you do?

11. You support the person who has complained about the early town reads and how they're clique-y. You support the arguments of wolf!Dice and base your town read on non-content,  letting him float because Dice would comment on the situation regardless. Yet you don't get flack for it because it's a legitimate stance. You try to break up the group by attacking Shad, Thane for acting like deep wolves trying ot get in on the town action even though for example, Shad's actions were nothing to worry about. You continue to have opposing reads to solidly held town members so that you aren't supporting the town core that formed early game and only got stronger. Basically a lot of his game looks like he's rejecting concensus reads in favor of being the voice that sees wolves instead of villas.

Postt 12. This is the DADV post that I posted in my catch up and caused Cory to take a second look at Turin. I'm trying to work my mind around why he says this at all.

As mafia: last ditch effort to throw doubt on this lynch. He's been pushing the town core that they're a group of wolves who have banned together to sweep the village and it doesn't seem to be gaining any traction. He's defended Dice a little bit on Dice's arguments being non-game related but hasn't had any other reasons to be town reading him besides that from what I can tell so I'm not sure where the town read is coming from. So as mafia at this point, he's dropping the loaded "DADV" while there's still plenty of time left in the day. Or maybe he's not trying to save him? Maybe he's just throwing that out there to comment that it's a foregone lynch and he knows he can't possibly change his position at this point and vote Dice because it would be too suspicious.

As villager: Turin truly believes Dice is town, even with no reason to be doing so and thinks the town core is here to take down everyone after they coordinated on thread at the beginning of the game. By saying DADV he's clearing himself of responsibility in case this goes wrong and Dice flips villa.

13. He comments his WTL is Shad, Thane, Hally, Verbal. 3/4 are consensus-ly blue, iirc.
 
I want to hear from Turin, right now I'm wolf reading him.

 

 1. Why is it "too early"? I find that the fact that it happened so early is exactly why it is suspicious. If you don't see it that way then we have different ideas. I feel that the tone of it was too much, too early and that is why I called it out.

2.  I defended Sooh because IMO she was correct that she was treated differently than the rest of the group initially. I further defended her against Zander because he seemed to be going @ her for something that was an out of game reasoning. I have been on the receiving end of Znader when he was just bent at me for saying something he thought was low. ( I will let anyone look at D0 of GnD to decide themselves) I even tried to ascertain from Zander if he was really reading her as mafia for it or if he was just pushing back with his vote. Caught flak about it too. So make of it as you will. 

Bold: I HAVE seen it. Think about Thane as mafia a few times. town read for tone early and just never quite making it back to PoE. 

Underline: You think mafia wouldn't do it in a pocket attempt? You are more trusting than I am then.

3. YES. I do. I treat almost everything as serious unless clearly displayed as a joke. there is no context to mark it a joke so until shown otherwise it is serious. The game starts at the first post and everything is serious unless shown otherwise.

4. Yes, Thane looked bad for that post. I find it a bit odd that you noticed it but don't seem to hold it against him in your ISO of him. In fact the way this is written it looks to me (I might be biased) that you knew he answered it and made it look like you wanted to see what he said in an attempt to push at me. I don't know if I missed it or just didn't have time to respond at the time. I will go back now to find out what he in fact said.  If it was some sort of a bleh response I will be very much more suspicious of you.

5. I'm looking at TWO possibilities and clearly stated as such. first possibility is that there is ONE of them attempting to slide into the town core and deep wolf all the way to the end. The second is that ALL of them(or possibly even just two really bold ones) are in fact wolves and are going to try to steamroll the town with sheer post volume and personality to stay above the fray. This has happened before. I think Shad was mafia in that game but I don't remember the game itself.

6. IRT Dice, do you think that post he made after being lynched was gameplay or do you think that was what he really thinks? I believe it was genuine. I know that I have been where he was i that I have felt that people were doing things that were wrong on a personal level. It definitely takes me away from my game. So I can see that it could happen to Dice too. Hence game wise it was null but it gave me a good emotional feeling as I could relate. Hence the town lean. I was wrong and it makes me look bad. I can deal with it. 
7. Bold: Do you really think that was what that backslap fest was doing? We see things very differently then. Shad also stated that he wanted a huge game. I pointed out how mafia is more likely to benefit from that and he even acknowledged it  to be true, but pushed it away as a passing whim basically.

Underline: Why can't it be both? Jokes can have meaning and purpose. I really feel I'm banging my head against a wall here. Hopefully I do get shot tonight and then I won't have to worry about it and you can see I had no anti town agenda.

8. Darthe: I have a pretty long history with Darthe. Some really good, some really bad. What i do KNOW and have already related is that He will do/say anything in game if it helps him win. I think he may have coined the advanced bussing phrase in the hydra game from a while ago. (nice shooting Len/RTE). So I will not give him as much credit for a series of posts as i might someone else. 

Dice: I think I explained my Dice read above. I was wrong. Surprise!! 

Shad: Shad is very smooth. He has pinged me early and again on other occasions. He was the largest contributor to the buddying early IMO. He did state he wanted a big game which I don't like for stated reasons and also because I have limited time which means every minute I have to read is one minute I can't post. A few other things I will recall when I look at his ISO because he acknowledges them himself. Very agreeable Shad always feels mafia to me.

Thane: participated in buddygate. odd way he dealt with Dice. Hedged reads. Everyone is town comment. Doesn't really look at anyone tho. He had 8 people as town early which looked odd to me. 

9. I didn't click link TBH. I was afraid to kill my post. I will do so after and comment. I believe I read Zander as more solidly town when he started doing some things that looked like he was town. I remember he asked a question about which cleared player might be maf (or which PoE player was town?). There was another post right there that looked really towny too. 

10. Feel free to interpret things as you wish (again didn't click just now) All I can give is my PoV. I have seen numerous games start out with people getting cleared fairly early for reasons I don't understand(Toan, effort, thread presence). Later in the game when it becomes obvious that someone is miscleared the "town core" (plus the wolf) go after the wrong person and the game is lost. I don't subscribe to the " well if player ??? was a wolf then they played great and deserved to win. Especially if what they did was ingratiated themselves into the town core early thru personality.

11. What happens if everyone sees everything the same? Wolves win a LOT is what happens. I attacked Shad because I saw him doing things that I have seen other mafia (including shad) do. I attacked Thane because he is floating and that Dice comment felt inconsistent with his earlier buddying of others. Now that Dice flipped mafia it reads more like a early distance post. I' ll look at your ISO of Thane and see if he did anything with his Dice suspicions or if he "threw them away" to use your phrase. 

12. Which makes more sense to you considering it is D1 and I have NO knowledge of anyone's alignment? If i'm mafia and I KNOW dice is gonna flip mafia why in the world do I put myself out there that far? Dice is the ONLY real wagon of the day. You say there was plenty of time left in the day. I thin that when "I made the comment Dice was at L-1 or L-2 depending if Darthe had unvoted yet or not and shad had already stated he would hammer that evening if no one else had. He got hammered within the next two hours IIRC. There was no way that it was going to DL. It was already very late for me so I wasn't going to be around to do anything. Cory asked and I answered. Simple.  

 

Hint: I really did just think he was town. 

 

Something is bothering me about the enlarged section. Why in the world would I as town care to clear myself of responsibility as town? Only mafia think that way and it troubles me that you are still putting a mafia mindset into a section that you are trying to portray me as town. Either you are already in the tunnel or you are projecting your mindset onto me. Probably doesn't matter cause I think my lynch if it happens will lead to you. 

13. Who cares if other people think they are town. I'm not trying to fit in i'm trying to find the wolves. BTW who are the 3/4? 

 

My WTL quoted was:

Shad- pretty much town read to some degree

Hallia- more in the null slightly town IIRC

Thane- definitely more in the null IMO 

Verb- certainly now in people's PoE 

 

Where do you have them Alanna? I think in your previous list they were all around me. Verb lower and the other 3 just above in sequence. I will need to verify but If I'm right then I would say that doesn't look good for you.

 

 

 

 

[Cory Caboose]

I remember you getting NKed early twice - once because you hardclaimed doctor d1 as docto (lol) and the other because bgshrinko was an old school player and wanted a low info kill which basically outed him since he was the only person that would ever do it.

 

Thinking you're in the n1 death pool here is super odd to me.

[Turin Turambar]

Just going to say outright I'm not answering your questions.

 

"It seems you know I'm a villager but want to call me a wolf!!!"

 

Okay Turin.

fair enough. Then at least think about them if I should die. As I will flip town 

[Cory Caboose]

Why didn't you care at all about the lynch on d1?

[Cory Caboose]

I have trouble genuinely believing you actually suspect me as well because you seem to imply it a lot, and it's also your implicit reaction whenever I think about your wolf equity.

[Cory Caboose]

As for thinking you are an "easy read" for me I will say exactly the following:

 

I thought you were an obvious wolf in CT.

 

I thought you were an obvious villager in your first run in Supernatural and I had no clue about the second.

 

I don't have a great grasp on you here.

 

Maybe it's different actually being in a game with you instead of unspoiled spec / mentoring.

 

Maybe you're playing a better wolf game than usual and that's why you're not an obvious wolf.

 

Maybe my initial thread run - where I thought you were a villager - was correct.

 

Time will tell, I guess.

[Turin Turambar]

Thane. I started to look back at his reply to me which I either missed or forgot to del with. Fiar enough but I am trying to follow his Dice progression. I just can't and I don't see how Alanna can.

 

 

im annoyed Thane.
 
no wolfin. why? cause my pm says im not.
 
 
you?

A.) I get that you're annoyed. It can be annoying being accused when town and nobody seemingly gets what you really mean. Happens to me all the time. *hands beer* Now, let's continue the game, alright? We'll figure things out
 

Just getting ready to try to get caught up. Saw this and had to say I really don't like this post.

Dice, buddy. How are you doing?
 
Are you a wolf this game? Why not?

Can someone tell me why I don't?
 

This is the kind of post that leads to the clique thought. afaik Thane hasn't been mush into the thread aside from the jokey posts at the start of the game. So it reads EXACTLY as what Sooh was talking about. Thane comes in and buddies Z, Cory and Shad. Then his interaction with Dice is the opposite. His stance seems to be that He is convinced that Dice is mafia (for bad reasons IMO) and is in effect trying to get Dice to prove a negative when it should be more on Thane to show why Dice is mafia if that is his take. 

 
Okay. back in a bit

 

B.) Dude... bolded in the spoiler. You got it wrong. I'm not at all convinced he is mafia. That's what YOU make of it. 
 

Expanding somewhat on my Thane impression.

 

 

Zander Cory can we be v/v/v scumslaughter apocalypse?

 

Jokey? town reading (buddying?)
 

I wanna keep Cory, that's for sure.. so... either you or Shad, let gameplay decide
 
Best case: we can do V/V/V/V Makes hunting easier, no?

More of the same. Note to self Has Corey as town read. Z and shad as maybe. Then reconsiders as both maybe okay.
 
People are saying these are just jokes but IMO if it is in thread it is valid for dissection. Basically there is nothing from Thane aside from the fluffy stuff until his "restart" post. 1)
 

So.... let's restart the game!
 
First post!!!
 
Hiyas all
 
Now, let's hunt some wolves, right?
 
ok, now for some thoughts of mine... it's a silly little thought i have, but i get the feeling (<- important word there) that we just might have all town players at the moment. Don't crucify me for that statement later if i'm wrong, but you may worship me if it's true

Everyone is town. Something to keep in mind if Thane should flip mafia later on. 2)
 

Gut, for now, says:
 
Zander good
Hallia good
Sooh frustrated townie
Turin looking ok, but still cautious
Shad alright; for now
Cory (Wanna make Zan jealous)

snap reads that I was asking about, I think...
his early three buddies are still where they were apparently. Somewhat odd to me that his Shad has a caveat. Can you show/say what is giving you pause on Shad? What is your actual Cory read? wub isn't really alignment indicative to me.  
Turin read also couched. Why are you cautious of me? 3)

Dice, buddy. How are you doing?
 
Are you a wolf this game? Why not?

This sounds like you are mafia reading Dice. When did this read develop? 4)
 

Hi Tina
 
looking forward to your thoughts

quoted just to show the difference in tone between Dice and others. 

 
a few questions inside

 

C.)1) All fluff, or a lot of it, is normal for me D1. Deal with it. You should know that after the games we did. 
2) Ah yes... lol.. right... ok... seriously?
3) Cautious of you because you can hide from others as a wolf. I pinned you last game, so I know what I'm looking for. 
4) As i said, that's your interpretation. I never stated i had a wolfread on him. Why are you putting things in other peoples posts that are not there? hmm...
 

People I wouldn't lynch:
Calder
Zander
Calder
Turin
Calder

Lets get'em:
Not Calder
Dice
Thane
That dwarf in my book club who steals my opinions

some reasons for that would be appreciated... to share with others... get to know what you think... and all...

D.)

 A,) this looks like Thane being sympathetic with Dice. Propping him up if you will. 

B.) Here was his answer to me. Basically saying that I got it wrong. Do you understand why I thought what I did? does anyone else?

C.) 1.) So you are using meta as your defense. I believe that you said you don't do meta.
C.) 2.) Yes. Seriously. And I definitely think you are mafia now.

C.) 3.) What are you looking for. Tell me why I'm a wolf.

C.) 4.) Because you didn't state your position prior to that and your tone in the post reads like you are thinking he is a wolf? So now that he was a wolf, was it TMI?

D.) Odd that he pipes up to ask for reasons from Calder about why Calder suspects Thane and Dice. 

 

Also something that I just really noticed in the initial post Thane makes about Dice. The words buddy and Wolf both appear. I wonder if that was a slip. 

 

 

People commenting on Shad's perceived eagerness to play. Is this unusual for him? He was more reserved as the devil in Clov's game that I played, but his in thread actions werent really all that important (compared to a normal game). So curious.

For me it isn't his eagerness to play. He does like to mafia and IMO he is happier to be mafia than town. What is really pinging me is that he seemed to work a bit too hard to get into the "backslapping" fest that started the game. 
 

Dice, buddy. How are you doing?
 
Are you a wolf this game? Why not?

The fact that you phrased your question in this manner leads me at least to think you were predisposed to thinking that dice was in fact mafia. The second question is superfluous if you have a null read on him. 
 
so what is your actual current read on dice? Reasoning?

 

My actual read on Dice is null, with very light town lean. I'll need a bit more to be able to read him better. But, seeing it's early in the game, that shouldn't be a problem

 

 Here Thane has Dice as a null to slight town read. 
 

 

 

 

 

People commenting on Shad's perceived eagerness to play. Is this unusual for him? He was more reserved as the devil in Clov's game that I played, but his in thread actions werent really all that important (compared to a normal game). So curious.

For me it isn't his eagerness to play. He does like to mafia and IMO he is happier to be mafia than town. What is really pinging me is that he seemed to work a bit too hard to get into the "backslapping" fest that started the game. 
 

Dice, buddy. How are you doing?
 
Are you a wolf this game? Why not?

The fact that you phrased your question in this manner leads me at least to think you were predisposed to thinking that dice was in fact mafia. The second question is superfluous if you have a null read on him. 
 
so what is your actual current read on dice? Reasoning?

 

My actual read on Dice is null, with very light town lean. I'll need a bit more to be able to read him better. But, seeing it's early in the game, that shouldn't be a problem

 

Reasoning????

 

it's D1, he seems genuinely frustrated. He doesn't do emo stuff as wolf as far as i can remember. His content over the next few days will make him easier to read, instead of falling back to what had happened. There's more for him to work with, let him prove himself.

 

 light defense of Dice for not being "EMO" as a wolf. Give him time...
 

I'd like to know what Dice is thinking at this point. Let me know when you're done re-reading

 Just wants to know what Dice is thinking. Seems to still fel good about him tho. (yes this is my opinion because Thane hasn't stated any change in his dice read at this point)
 

Hmm.... let me shuffle that a bit, ok?
 
Cory[/size]
 
Zander[/size]
 
 [/size]
Darthe[/size]
 
Tina[/size]
Shad[/size]
 
Hallia[/size]
 
 
 
Verbal[/size]
 [/size]
LaineyKat[/size]
 
Turin[/size]
 
Calder[/size]
 
Dice[/size]
Sooh[/size]
 
 
It's always possible that i have miscleared someone. It's D1.... but, my bet is that the wolves are hiding in the orange (and grey, but i'm giving Laine some time to catch up) [/size]

 Dice moves from null light town to orange.( I will assume that this is a light to medium mafia read) Why the change? I dunno. Explain Thane?
 

 

@ Thane
 
Explain your certain PoV comment irt Dice please.
 
Also you have Laine/Kat grey which I assume is null but earlier when you were asked by Cory I think who'd you shoot you said Kat.  If shes null which Im assuming you have her from your list why would you shoot her over one of your oranges who you cant clear?
 
Like what stuck out from her that pinged you more then those you had orange/cant clear?

I believe that Dice is genuinely frustrated. Frustrated people don't put as much effort into a game than others. But, other people see it as a scumtell of his, not 'willing' to solve or provide a reads list.  I can't clear him, but I can't purely condemn him either.... I want him to be town, but... i dunno. 
 
As for Laine: players who sub in automatically get a null read until they start doing some work. It's what i do. Even though people would think that one should clear the slot and not the player, a player subbing in still deserves a shot and shouldn't be auto-lynched due to the predecessors' work (or lack of)

 

 this is the person he has as his second most likely mafia. Then he is gone until after the flip but appears  not too much after. He never voted Dice. ( ireally should have added his first post flip post. I think it was close after (like within an hour) though.
 

well, i'll try to have a good nights sleep and will see you all in the morrow.
 
Current feeling: gonna stick with the reads i had, we seem to be having a solid town core at this point.
 
 
one last thing: Keep it civilized, in-game and fun, people.... didn't really like reading through the past couple of pages.

Bold: Seems pretty confident that he will be alive in the morning. I never feel that way as town even if I'm in the PoE like I am now.

Underline: he mentions the "Town Core" again. Do you think you are in it Thane? Do you think you deserve to be?  

 

 

 

Why is Thane such a town read??? I just don't see it. 

 

Off to look at Alanna's linked posts form her ISO. Shad may have to wait until much later. If I'm alive. When is DL for day again?

[Cory Caboose]

I actually just went through Thane again just to confirm some things and I am pretty damn confident he's a villager

 

It's hard for me to explain exactly why but I will try to do so once I get my thoughts more gathered

 

Got maybe four hours of sleep last night