[Standard] Chrono Trigger Mafia - Town wins Day 5!

[Andrej]

I didnt say you didnt take any stances just soft ones that seem to leave you an out.  Usually I expect stronger reads from you is all.  Why dont you think Scum!Nolder would go at you like that?

 

Im not saying she is or isnt.  You thought she was a good train at one point iirc.  Just was wondering what in particular you were seeing,

Well it kind of has been a bit since I played last, though I'm not trying to lean on that as an excuse. The game also started kind of slow so maybe I was trying to force more reads than I probably should have given the content available. There's a reason I wasn't trying to make myself the immediate Town leader. Yates was actually right in this regard. Miss you bro.

 

With Nolder I just don't associate that sort of aggression with him being scum. Usually he gets into silly kind of arguments that revolve around a phrase or misunderstanding, and although he did blunder pretty hard on the Tina thing his purpose has obviously been to push the game and cause some reactions. I don't really like the tunnel stint anymore because he could hide behind that as a wolf but on D1 I think he was okay despite being wrong on me.

 

My read changed on Tina when she started posting more. She was asking good questions and has continued to do so whenever she is around.

[Andrej]

About me?

 

Thane's been making more confident reads lately he did so in his last 2 games one in which he was Town and the other as Scum.  As most people know hes usually someone who gets figured out as the game progresses but I need to see a lot more from him no matter what.

 

I dont hate your top 3 fwiw atp pending what everyone comes back with.

 

Yes, about you. I know you wont lie down easy and although I think a lot of your arguments are just trying to throw mud at me, I can't help but think maybe the emotional component of your posting style is genuine. What I would hate is for you to actually be a wolf and I got soft cause I feel bad for thinking I pegged you wrongfully. My biggest issue is how you handled me D1. From my POV, knowing my alignment, you seemed kinda shady when you seemed to start questioning me again when I was on the chopping block. It looked like you were gearing up to vote me but needed to show some work in questioning me first because obviously just throwing a vote down wouldn't have looked too good.

 

Honestly if Thane is a wolf and just straight up refusing to give reads or vote anyone, he's got balls of steel. I don't really have a "reason" from his content to think he's town because he isn't playing "like a townie should" but that sort of blatant stubbornness really tilts me. Scum know they have to look townie by way of giving reads and justifications on stuff, and Thane is doing the absolute opposite of that. So unless he is just leveling the crap out of me I am going to call him a villager and resist the urge to go at him.

 

I'm like very very confident my top three are all town. If you're not a wolf then that leaves what should be three within Leelou/Nolder/Turin/Lenlo.

[Andrej]

I screwed that up

[Andrej]

 

About me?

 

Thane's been making more confident reads lately he did so in his last 2 games one in which he was Town and the other as Scum.  As most people know hes usually someone who gets figured out as the game progresses but I need to see a lot more from him no matter what.

 

I dont hate your top 3 fwiw atp pending what everyone comes back with.

Yes, about you. I know you wont lie down easy and although I think a lot of your arguments are just trying to throw mud at me, I can't help but think maybe the emotional component of your posting style is genuine. What I would hate is for you to actually be a wolf and I got soft cause I feel bad for thinking I pegged you wrongfully. My biggest issue is how you handled me D1. From my POV, knowing my alignment, you seemed kinda shady when you seemed to start questioning me again when I was on the chopping block. It looked like you were gearing up to vote me but needed to show some work in questioning me first because obviously just throwing a vote down wouldn't have looked too good.

 

Honestly if Thane is a wolf and just straight up refusing to give reads or vote anyone, he's got balls of steel. I don't really have a "reason" from his content to think he's town because he isn't playing "like a townie should" but that sort of blatant stubbornness really tilts me. Scum know they have to look townie by way of giving reads and justifications on stuff, and Thane is doing the absolute opposite of that. So unless he is just leveling the crap out of me I am going to call him a villager and resist the urge to go at him.

 

I'm like very very confident my top three are all town. If you're not a wolf then that leaves what should be three within Leelou/Nolder/Turin/Lenlo.

Fixed.

[Niniel]

To Hallia: Verb is unclear so far. I'd like him to answer my questions and post some thoughts before I make up my mind.

[Andrej]

It made it easy for me to vote you?  Dude you were a suspect going into today.  So no i dont agree with that. 

 

What discrepancies?  Like explain to me the difference in our read progressions?  I havent even did an updated reads list yet AJ.  SO im wondering what it is youre trying to say here.

I know you had your "reasons" for sussing me, but after how I came out when D2 started I made it kind of hard for you not to challenge me if you're a wolf. That's what I mean.

 

Like I've said already, I don't think your progression on Nolder is very good. I also have to question your other suspects. I know I am town, Dice was town, Tina is pretty solidly town imo and Nolder isn't playing like I would expect scum!Nolder to as of yet. I also don't like you linking me and him as scum bussing because I don't think you should've been drawing that conclusion as early as you did. But maybe it's all legit and I'm not the only one getting spun around. I'm still undecided on that, but I do agree that this game does seem pretty one sided with who all is active and who isn't.

 

Another thing I don't understand is your fixation on read lists. You keep bringing that up but I don't think it's the only tool you could be using both to show your progression or read anyone else.

[Andrej]

I also dislike that you tried using Yates to vet your reads after he got killed. You should know that not every townie is going to be exactly correct, and just because he liked your reads and called you a townie doesn't make you one.

[Andrej]

With that I'm going to bed.

 

For now I'm gonna [unvote] but I will be around as much as I can during work.

 

My vote will land somewhere within the five I've talked about. Unless I'm just totally misclearing Thane there should be three wolves within that group.

[BFG]

Votecount

 

AJ (1/6): Zander

 

 

Not Voting (9): AJ, Hallia, Leelou, Lenlo, Nolder, Thane, Tina, Turin, Verb

 

[Clovdyx]

Nothing new since I went to bed.

 

Mods - could we get an extension?

I'll get back to this

[Niniel]

Okay.

 

 

I'm soon off to work. I will not vote Hallia or Turin today. Probably not Leelou since she won't be here to defend herself. I never re-read her posts so I have no opinion on her right now. I'll read her posts after work. I see that others suspect her. Nolder and Thane was okay yesterday but have to post today, otherwise they won't stay in my town pile.

 

Going to work soon and will probably not be able to log in before I get home.

[Turin Turambar]

Thane posts where he mentions a "take" on any other players. I think I got them all. I put this out because he stated that if we read his posts we would obviously know his thoughts on everyone. 

 

 

 

a few notes of mine that i feel like keeping for later

 

 

Turin paying attention, +1 post 126

130: Tina?? Statement and quote are odd together?

138 verb makes sense, maybe troo obvious remark?

146 Dice zander lol push… not really saying that much, gamerelated. More null at this point.

150 agree with Yates.

General: spot reads, ok. But a bit of explaning wouldn’t be too bad. How can we get into your head if you don’t share thoughts?

154: Yates sharing concern Turin about Dice…. Hold on to this thought.

158 lol

Page 9: dice addressing zander interaction as joke, Zan agrees, but with a little fos.

169: Zander: I hope the cop will stay hidden a long time. Town needs him/her to do the job well. *nods*

172: tone reading D1 is a thing imo. But, should be handled with care.

178: don’t feel too bad about that

182/184 interaction Yates/AJ… we’ll see *nods*

190: Feel like I have to agree with Nolder here. No real follow up to my liking to post 130

Page 10: not feeling too bad about AJ here *nods*

As for 207: read that too, but still doesn’t explain why Tina didn’t quote the player she was addressing with the post.

Nolder’s vote is odd… seemed like regular AJ to me. 213 Zan asking +1

Page 12, nothing bad about Lenlo, ok for now.

241 vote on Nolder for Tina thing… hmm…  

 

 

 

Recap: [v] Tina[/v]

 

come back in and play. I'm getting very mixed feelings about you, so i'd like you to be around more and be able to read you

Votes Tina in what looks like a prod vote. Mixed feelings. You unvoted her later Thane, Do you have her as null or town now? What specifically caused the change?

 

In general, not feeling too bad, so prolly town in my head, are the following people: AJ, Turin, Nolder, Zander, Dice.

 

Will need some more on the other people, haven't made up my mind about them

probably town but no real reasons for why. Easy to do this.

 

For Dice: for the moment, there's nothing in the way he posts that would seem odd. His 'push' on Zander is, for me, regular Dice. Him NOT doing it would have been a bad sign imo. He did respond well to the questions and remarks made towards him, so more town than null for the moment. At this point. 

Gives some thought about Dice. 

 

 

 

In general, not feeling too bad, so prolly town in my head, are the following people: AJ, Turin, Nolder, Zander, Dice.

Great. I only disagree with the people in red.  

 

I don't understand how you have ANY of those 4 in your Town pile based on the current game state never mind ALL four.  Like, I think all 4 of them will admit in thread that they aren't playing to their usual meta.  I know Zander, for one, has already stated as much in thread and AJ and Dice more or less hinted at it as well.

 

So, uh, can you expand on these Town reads a bit?  For a friend?

 

quick reply here, before catching up. Nolder seems town to me here. Reacts well to questions and all, no worries about him so far;  Zander is ok, I'd be surprised if he'd be wolf. Dice is interacting well, so not on the radar at all, for the moment.

 

Now, I see the comments about AJ, but I don't feel it's enough to see him scummy for it. Slight town lean still, but not clearing him 100%. Not very possible D1 anyways.  

 

gives "reasons" for rest of town reads. The one that looks odd to me is his comments about AJ. He sees the comments on AJ but don't feel  it is enough to see him as mafia. I am having difficulty matching that with his reasoning for voting Tina. I may be biased in this because I had Tina as town once I cleared up the post to Nolder that I thought was to Dice. 

 

So honestly, i don't really know who i would vote. I'm conflicted. I see the votes on Dice, see the 'cases' against him.... but yeah, i dunno. I doubt he's wolf.... 

 

on the other hand, i don't really have a feel on people I'd be WTL. Add Verbal to the NOT-WTL pile, though...

Still thinks dice is town. Does not want to lynch Verb now.

 

too early to call for a CFD on Thane?

 

oh, wait, that's me.....

 

never mind, carry on

I posted this because it felt like he was trying to basically say "don't CFD me cause I'm gonna be asleep." Thane, at the time of this post, did you think that you should be a town read for people?

 

The thought going through my mind was this: The current player list is quite a good one. I'd say nearly every player in here is cautious enough not to get himself, or herself, killed D1. Which makes it a challenge for town. I don't know who will be lynched D1, honestly, I don't know who should (i guess the majority here can figure it out) and I'm hoping to get some results from NA's to work with start D2. I generally don't like D1, but this one is killing me.

 

I can't stay awake any longer, i got up nearly 20 hours ago... I'll see you all on the flip side, i guess.

I hate this post. Translates to me as "This is too hard so I'm not gonna try." 

 

aha, so I am seem as scummy for not voting D1? Not giving a reads list? If one would have read my posts, one would have known my opinion. I even explained why i saw certain people as town and the rest null. So, accusations on that, I call nonsense. You're either unable to read what I post, or purposefully trying to make me look bad.

 

Not voting Dice? I had him town (and i was right). Not voting AJ? i think he is town too, which still has to be confirmed, one way or another. Voting someone else with little hope of other people doing so? Don't think it's quite that useful. Hallia didn't vote me, for instance, seeing she thought it had little chance of succeeding. Yet I'm being called out for it.... interesting.

 

Verbal didn't change, 'cause he saw no reason to. Hybrid hammer and all. Would he have changed if it weren't hybrid-hammer? I don't know. Care to answer, Verbal?

 

Dice wasn't around. Too bad. We'll have to see now what we can learn. I fear not much....

 

Leelou didn't vote either. Did she have suspects listed somewhere? Would be nice to know what she makes of the flip and tell us why she didn't vote.

 

To investigate tomorrow: Hallia, Turin, Verbal.

 

That, however, doesn't mean that other players shouldn't be looked into. I agree with Verbal that wolves have done a good D1, they hide well. (That's basically what i said in my last post D1, actually) 

 

Good night all, sleep well and wake. Can't wait for this night to be over and get to wrek

Yes, not giving reads is not town. I disagree that you gave real reasons for why you had people where you did. The only one that I think was sufficiently backed up was your Dice opinion. It is now D2. Let's see what you really think now. 

 

You still want to investigate the same three people. Hallia, Verb and me? 

 

Does it matter, really?

 

They have NOT changed.

 

leaning town: AJ, Zan, Verb, Turin, Nolder. 

 

null (meaning no clue): the rest of you lot.

What is your current take on AJ/Zander?

See above re Verb and me. 

 

 

 

 

Thane, please give us a current and reasoned reads lists. D2 and time to bring it. 

[Turin Turambar]

gonna try to slug thru the Zander/AJ interactions accusations. I see some valid points from both. 

 

Why did it have to be the two highest posters? 

[Nolder]

Reads list, no special order other than town/null/scum.

 

Town

Verbal - I have a town read on Verbal mainly for his warning about watching for people playing the middle ground or the mediator. It's a great point and one I don't think scum Verbal would bother making.

Thane - I liked that Thane was willing to back me up on Tina I think he saw what I was going for and added pressure. Also he seems calm under pressure. I have misread him before though so there's that to keep in mind.

Tina - Tina is doing early what usually takes her awhile to get going. She is probing the game and getting answers to hard questions. Usually she doesn't do this as much when she's scum.

Halia - Seems like town Hallia to me. She's engaged but not overly aggressive and she is fluffy but not too fluffy.

 

Null

Lenlo - Can't really decide about Lenlo. There's been a couple posts I didn't like (including when he sniped at me) and a couple I thought were pretty good. Right now I'm most comfortable having Lenlo as null.

Turin - I can't read Turin. I've pretty much given up at this point. 

Leelou - Hasn't posted much and I think she said she'd be gone until Monday or Tuesday.

 

Scum

AndreJ - Top pick for scum. Thought it was slimy how he said Tina was worth voting and then never voted her. Also this thing that has cropped up with him and Zander looks like distancing to me.

Zander - Has a scumread on me but it's unclear why and has continued to fumble explanations when asked. As mentioned I think his spat with AJ is distancing.

 

 

[Turin Turambar]

If Nolder is scum then he obviously hid behind his tunnel on me D1 to avoid doing anything else. I would like actual reads from him sooner than later and not just NK spec.

 

Turin kinda vanishes which always makes me nervous but he does seem really level headed and reasonable most of the time. His suspect list I'm not the biggest fan of atm. Hallia and Thane are kinda easy targets for scum reads. Will need to see what he comes back with when he returns.

Just a quick note. I was away for the weekend (which was awesome) and now I'm back. I only really post when I have time by myself. Less so when family around. TBH I just rather be with them.

 

I have now read AJ and am gonna go thru Zander. I'm gonna post a few thoughts NOT related to your Zander back and forth.

 

Questions for AJ: 

 

Can you show me what gave you your initial ping on Tina and then what the turning point was that led you to find her no longer mafia? I see that you say you made it obvious but I am just not seeing it in black and white. 

 

Same thing on why you changed on Nolder. I know why you initially read him as mafia.(the Tina thing and it coming off as "fake derp"). 

 

On Lenlo, you say that he looks worse because Hallia has claimed informed townie. I am a bit concerned that this is a case of taking later events into account to paint Lenlo as mafia. No one knew what her role was when the questions started.  Now I see it as very unlikely that Hallia is mafia based on her breadcrumbs on the role and reading Yates as town. If she (or her team) came up with that I think I need to tip my cap to them. My point here is that Len didn't have that knowledge when He was questioning her so for you to say that he should have known Hallia was town from the start is unfair at least and manipulative at worst. 

 

Off to read Zander now... wish me luck. LOL

[Turin Turambar]

AJ actually had more posts than Zander but Z's were longer and harder to read. I actually have some questions for Z based on the other parts of my reread.

 

You had initial mafia reads(or at least not  town) reads  on Tina and Nolder. I think that you said that Tina "digging in" led you to move her up. You still have Nolder as mafia. Is it entirely based on his push on Tina? I am a little confused because you had her as sketchy for a fairly long time as well. Why would you be reading him maf for having a similar view that you have?   

 

You seemed to be pretty rough on Lenlo for his treatment of Hallia. What early on had you leaning town for her? Is this similar to your penchant for reading Alanna town unless shown otherwise?

[Turin Turambar]

Tina, you said that earlier you thought Z/AJ might be w/w. You later said that you don't necessarily think that anymore. Can you expand on what caused the original idea and now what has you changing your mind. 

 

I am asking because I am seeing some potential here as well. My thought is that they are talking about a lot of different things but they seem to be taking similar stances with the exception of on each other. 

 

Both sussed Tina but may not have gone as far to say they actually had a mafia lean/read on her. Now both are town reading her but trying to say the other was wrong for their process in getting there. 

Both pretty much hard defended Hallia against Lenlo before Hallia had claimed and showed her work on it. I was leaning more that Len was in the right. That may be because I am more logical in my process as well.  

Both seem to be more than willing to leave Thane on the sideline despite his lack of effort. 

Both had Leelou as null. AJ has moved her down but I think just for activity. 

 

Z what is your current read on Leelou?

 

I'm gonna try to find your most current reads lists and see what I can see. Actually I would like to see if you could each  post your most current thoughts and reads on everyone. I know is night time for you all right now but as soon as it is practical if you please.

[Turin Turambar]

Lenlo/Verb are on that fringe of scum range for me.

 

Neither have really done anything constructive, Lenlo especially so. This looks bad after seeing how he's played in our more recent games.

 

Verb has asked some game play-ish questions but I don't think they were truly progressive.

 

Atp I don't think they are bad wagon options.

 

I want to see Nolder respond to my questions. That was a pretty bad mistake he made earlier and I know it's kind of his scum play to pull stuff like that. Act confused, etc.

Why did you vote Verb over Len at this point? I know you had them both as options but if Len was worse then why vote Verb? and why hold it there for so long?

 

AJ, from going back over your posts from D1 the biggest concern that came up to me was that you posted and said things but didn't seem to actually "Do anything". You voted Verb early and held it there and then just basically self preservation voted Dice although you seemed to be town reading him all/most fo the day. I would have expected you to make a real case on someone and work at showing what you were thinking since you were in the lynch pool. If for no other reason than you would want to give us your thoughts that we could use as confirmed town after your flip. 

[Turin Turambar]

These are the most recent complete lists from Zander and AJ. I know there has been some limited updating but I don't have enough time to go thru all of it.

Yates- Yates has been on point, involved and engaging, he's also been explaining things out and almost acting like an intermediary when theres been a disconnect between players.  That being said Yates is also 100% capable of fooling me but as of now, no one feels Townier then he does to me,

Hallia- Wasnt a fan of the Yates town read joke thing,  But Hallia has picked it up considerably after that.  Hallia like me doesnt always convey things clearly and also like me marches to the beat of her own drum. But Hallia's biggest town tell is volume and presence and I highly doubt Scum!Hallia cant replicate this imo.

Verb- He started off slow but has really picked it up.  And other then Hallia I think were seeing eye to eye on things which makes me feel better about him, 

Lenlo- I still cant believe im typing this.  But after his catch up hes feeling more involved and Lenlolike and fwiw this doesnt feel like Matirx or GnD to me,

 

Lee- Will need to look her over to form a better read.  I dont have a lot of experience with her.

Thane- Once I see his reasoning for reads Ill have a better idea of how to read him. 

Turin- Hasnt done nothing to ping me really so thats a good sign but ive also totally read him wrong the last couple games.  Will need more time to figure out.

 

Tina- Has been weird. but thats not totally uncommon for her. Ive liked her catchup posts more so theres that going for her.

AJ- Well heres the tough spot.  I felt he was defensive irt to me.  I havent liked some of his responses in regards to me.  And I feel like some of the stuff hes tried to sell us on like the constancy thing with Verb, hes backed down on.  My biggest thing is that Im not seeing Boss Town!AJ which Ive come to expect.

 

Nolder- His scum meta is to derp so to speak a bit.  I can kinda see where he came from irt to the Tina thing but still its hard to shake that feeling like hes well into his scum range.  I also think there may be ties between him and AJ.

Dice- Straight up doesnt feel like Town Dice to me.  He's been overly jokey.  No votes as of yet which is kind of uncommon for Town DIce imo.  No strong stances.  And really hes made a few solid game posts but there few and far between.

 

[v] Dice [/v]

 

Not my strongest scum read ever but my reads have also been pretty crappy lately.  Theres still some time left before DL to see what shakes out.  But atp prolly willing to lynch out of my bottom 4.

 

 

I'm phone posting so not gonna do all the colors and what not.

Turin - Town lean. Not completely sold on this read yet but overall I'm not getting terrible vibes from Turin yet. His case on Dice is heavily subjective, but I know he would probably do the same as either alignment. He's made some pretty good points and seems to be evaluating everyone with a level head. The only real knock on him is that sometimes I feel he's playing a bit 'too clean' so to speak. Will need further info to lock this one up.

Leelou - Starting to scum lean. I know she's busy so I won't list her overall lack of thread presence as a reason. I kind of get the vibe she's focusing on the wrong things though as the game has picked up. Not really fan of her tunnel regarding Halla's spot reads. Seems like a somewhat minor detail to nitpick. Not really sure where she's at as far as scum reads go.

Nolder - Feel pretty good about Nolder being town. His mistake regarding Tina's post was pretty bad imo but I think his aggressiveness is a positive sign. I don't associate scum!Nolder with pushing his reads as hard as he has in this game.

Verbal - town lean. He's gotten considerably better now that he is involved. I wish he'd take a more 'leader' role because I find him easier to read that way but that's not really his play style. I can tell he's catching more of the undercurrent stuff so I think that's a good sign.

Yates - reads extremely genuine with his trepidation on my slot. I know exactly how he feels as I've been in the reverse a time or two dealing with him. One of my stronger town reads.

Tina - her content is getting better now that she's more involved and digging in. I think Tina lurks more as scum and that's not what I'm seeing here. Town lean.

Hallia - vastly improved with her latest content. Looked sketchy early on, but I think she may be getting targeted as LHF. Feel pretty good about town!Hally this round.

Lenlo - mixed. I get a feeling Lenlo has improved his play style across the board. I'll need to comb over his content later with some flips in mind before I'll feel confident making a call here.

Zander - sorta mixed here too. Wasn't getting particularly bad vibes from Zander early on but I'm still a little bothered with his handling of me, though I can understand this may just be bias on my part. Will be keeping on eye on him as things develop.

Thane - null. Thane's entry seemed okay and he was quick to give his opinions which I take as a positive but overall would like to see more to make a better call.

 

Dice - MIA. I can see the points people have brought up about him being different than usual. There have been snippets where I thought he sounded like his normal self but I agree that the lack of aggressiveness and absence troubles me. I'm afraid he might be a scapegoat lynch but if it comes down to me or him I won't gamble on being wrong.

 

Yates - strongest town read for Z, "one of strongest" for AJ

Hallia- sketchy early but town now. Both of these were prior to the entire Lenlo interaction. 

Verb- solid town read at this point for both.

Lenlo- Town for Zander, Mixed for AJ

Leelou- Null for Z (basically too small a sample?), mafia lean for AJ due to "looking at wrong things" (I disagree FWIW).

Thane- Both Null wanting more but not really very bothered about it.

Turin- Z has as null says has read wrong. AJ has as town lean but "too clean". So both basically leaving their options open wrt to me.

Tina- Z had her as mafia lean at that point but I think he is more to null or town wrt to her. AJ had her town by this point but had her as a ping at least earlier.

 

Nolder- Z has as mafia IMO based upon the "derp" thing. AJ has as him as now town but said that his mafia meta is to "derp". 

 

AJ on Zander - sorta mixed here too. Wasn't getting particularly bad vibes from Zander early on but I'm still a little bothered with his handling of me, though I can understand this may just be bias on my part. Will be keeping on eye on him as things develop.

 

Z on AJ- Well heres the tough spot.  I felt he was defensive irt to me.  I havent liked some of his responses in regards to me.  And I feel like some of the stuff hes tried to sell us on like the constancy thing with Verb, hes backed down on.  My biggest thing is that Im not seeing Boss Town!AJ which Ive come to expect.

 

 

I really would like to see where you guys are with the game in general. 

[Clovdyx]

Deadline options:  

 

​1) Leave as is.

2) Extend deadline by 12 hours and shorten nightphase by 12 hours (those players with night abilities will be allowed to submit during the extended day, should they choose).

 

The later deadline is actually preferable for me, but it's not about what I want/benefit from.  If you have a preference, PM BFG and me.  If a majority of living players express the desire for option 2, I will change it.  Otherwise, it will remain for tonight (my time)

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

Until Verb shows up and posts some stuff

[Turin Turambar]

Is this where Verb is right now???

 

[Andrej]

Turin, before I answer - did you read my entire ISO?

[Andrej]

Nolder - did you just call me a good wagon and not vote?

 

Must be scum lololololol

[Turin Turambar]