Balthamel Is A Trans Girl

[Kwom Masbag]

It was rly rly rly sweet of the Dark One to resurrect her in the proper body, tbh ;u;  Like, seriously, what a thoughtful dude.

It kind of sucks that the transition process in WoT involves... y'know, death, but I mean.  You do what you gotta do.

[Guest]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the goal of gender transition was to change the body to cosmetically match the individual's gender identity, make the outsides match the insides so  to speak. If so, in RJ's universe Balthamel would be transsexual insofar as his sex was completely and truly changed, but he wouldn't qualify for the psychological requirements of transgender  both in that he didnt have any desire to have changed sex even if he decided to take advantage of it and that he can still channel saidin which is fundamentally male, and at least according to Theoryland, RJ once referred to him as a male spirit in a female body. That means he is pretty much in the wrong body - the fact that it was the work of the Dark One, who is antithetical to all that is "good and natural," would suggest a negative, perverse connotation to the matter if we are supposed to read that far into it. Though RJ didn't seem that deep - I think Balthamel was just one more of his manifestations, and an experimental one, of his taste for lesbianism.

[reyler]

As nice as it is when there's trans representation (or, really, any lgbt representation), I don't believe for a second that Balthamel/Aran'gar counts. We don't get any sense of Balthamel as a person before he is unceremoniously disposed of, and he is SUPER ticked when he wakes up in a woman's body - Osan'gar outright thinks it's the Dark One playing a nasty prank based on who Balthamel was in the past. Like Taltos said, Aran'gar is more Jordan indulging in his fetishes (in this case, m2f, or, "damned if a woman's body isn't a pleasure car, must be nice to be behind the wheel instead of in the passenger seat") rather than any legit attempt at having a trans character. 

[threadnecromancer]

Isn't transgirl a term only used of boys who were determined to transition from childhood?
 

Seems a little inappropriate for someone who received a sex change at the sprightly age of well past 3,000.

[art336]

To be completely honest, and not to try to start any controversy, but let's keep in mind that Jordan never really intended to support a political group with his book series. Balthamel was reincarnated, but nothing suggests he is *sigh* a "trans" anything. He does not suffer from the mental condition known as gender dysphoria, which is still considered a mental illness, according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Volume 4. And I quote

"The terms transsexualism, dual-role transvestism, gender identity disorder in adolescents or adults and gender identity disorder not otherwise specified are listed as such in the International Statistical Classification of Diseases (ICD) or the American Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) under codes F64.0, F64.1, 302.85 and 302.6 respectively. The DSM-5 refers to the topic as gender dysphoria."

 

So no, Balthamel is not clinically insane or confused about his physical body. He does not rail against the reality that he is a man and wants to be a woman, in fact he was upset, the books tell us, at the condition. He does grow to accept it, but also the books tell us that his memories change so that he was always a woman, even when he slept with women.

[threadnecromancer]

RJ's approach to gender dysphoria was actually kind of interesting, the mind rapidly adapted to the body, so in the long run there did not appear to be any serious dypshoria with all the body swaps.

[szilard]

By the way, what constitutes a suitable body from the Dark One's perspective is not that of the recipient. Certainly Aginor would never have chosen to be reincarnated in his, shall we say, less than imposing body, nor would the womanizing Balthamel have chosen to be reincarnated as a beautiful woman. It was only chance that Moridin ended up in a body that is young, fairly good looking and physically imposing. Those things simply don't matter to the Dark One. But the body has to be basically healthy and sound, and neither too young nor too old. After all, the Dark One wants his servants to be effective, and a body that meets those basic requirements is more desirable than one that doesn't. Since there is no stockpile of such bodies, the only way for someone to die and immediately be reincarnated would be a matter of pure chance. That is, the death occurred when a suitable body was on hand for some other reason.

 

 

Apr 20th, 2004 TOR Questions of the Week Part I

[threadnecromancer]

The problem with that of course is that someone is evidently being a little bit picky with the bodies, given that all of them with the exception of Moridin are jokes (and Moridin is the DO's favourite).

 

The first two could just be coincidence certainly, and Graendal's was explicitly a punishment but even Lanfear received a pretty, but essentially opposite, body.

 

It seems an odd joke for Darkfriends to pull, but Myddraal weren't supposed to have senses of humour.

[Sabio]

One was out of need. putting Bal into a female body enabled him to go to the rebel Aes Sedai and not be detected as a channeler.  Making him hot also allowed Bal to basically seduce whoever he wanted to.  For Aginor it really didn't matter what he looked  like.

[threadnecromancer]

But then why did Cyndane end up a short, buxom, blonde?


Irony seemed almost de rigeur in the selection process.

[jack of shadows]

whereas lanfear was tall,lithe,extremely beautiful with raven hair and dark eyes,

cyndane was short,bossomy,pretty with silver hair(not blonde) and blue eyes.

irony indeed,lol.

[Sabio]

Most probably come from those captured to be used as sacrifices for blades or possibly unfortunate Df's.

[DemandredFO]

But Lanfear's body wasn't her real one, didn't she drop the illusion for rand in Shadow Rising?

[Sabio]

Anything before she went into the doorway was her real body, as she showed Rand in the Stone.  Min also saw Lanfear's real look.  She just used different disguises with the power.  Moridin killed her in order to free her/punish her.  That's when she got stuffed into a new body.

[Jessica]

While Balthamel was in female form, he was equivalent to a transgender man, who had not transitioned.  A male brain in a female body is the definition of a transgender man.

[threadnecromancer]

That isn't quite how it worked though, it was made fairly clear that his/her dysphoria was short lived because, I cannot recall the quotation but "the body will adapt to the mind, and the mind will adapt to the body'.

Lanfear was the only one of the characters who didn't quite accept her new form.

[Sabio]

Exactly as Bal was told soon it would be like he always had that body. 

 

Also it's not a male brain in a female body, the entire soul was stuffed in the body.  Since the ability to channel is tied to the soul.

[jack of shadows]

@threadnecromancer,

what lanfear got to do with this?

her soul was transmigrated from one female body to another female body,that's all.

[Kesiera_Sedai]

But then why did Cyndane end up a short, buxom, blonde?

 

 

Irony seemed almost de rigeur in the selection process.

[Kesiera_Sedai]

I think she just received an equivalently attractive body....off topic, but it does seem RJ prefers buxom women....there are several times in the books when the young women have another woman's dress, and the fit is always described as being too tight in the chest but roomy in the hips...

[jack of shadows]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder,but more than a few men(and women)

were attesting to lanfear's unequaled beauty during her first tenure(books 2-5).

[Kesiera_Sedai]

Yes...this is why unlike with Graendal and possibly Arangar, I don't think that her new body was in any way a punishment, except for maybe the height..in fact, the description would indicate that Cyndane was as beautiful, just in a different way, (platinum blonde instead of brunette)

[Kesiera_Sedai]

But Lanfear's body wasn't her real one, didn't she drop the illusion for rand in Shadow Rising?

[Kesiera_Sedai]

It was TAR, so all it means is that she still sees herself as Lanfear.