[Basic]: Friends Mafia

[Eldrick4221]

 

Turin's points on zander's view on thane are ringing true to me. Turin looks better for it and zander worse. Both are still town to me, but Zander isn't as strong anymore.

 

WHAT POINT?

 

That I don think Thane made a slip.  Its really all Ive discussed about Thane.

 

The way how you are saying you don't have Tgane as town, but are defending him in such a way that it feels like you do.

[LilyElizabeth]

Z, For the record What I have a real problem with is soft claiming or hinting. I am not good at picking them up for the most part. (i.e. Lily in the last game). Especially if someone is trying to use it to get town read/cred. Lily claimed when she was getting heat. It was a situation that she would have to claim sooner or later. She claimed VT which means she is not a PR. I would prefer it to have been later nut can't fault it as it seemed she would be away for a while. Who was the other person that claimed? Eldrick or Thane?

 

TBH I am viewing this as most likely a vanilla game so I'm not taking into account any claims other than a possible doc or cop. Tina already said that all the character names are just thrown in a hat so anyone COULD be mafia. In this situation claiming doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot.

 

Also, It isn't that your read itself is different than mine on Thane it is that you don't really have a reason for it. I haven't seen anything about WHY he is town. Only that you don't like my pushing at him. And your using that to nudge at me. Make more sense?

 

Did I claim prematurely? I thought we claimed at L-2 routinely. 

[Zander?]

 

 

Turin's points on zander's view on thane are ringing true to me. Turin looks better for it and zander worse. Both are still town to me, but Zander isn't as strong anymore.

 

WHAT POINT?

 

That I don think Thane made a slip.  Its really all Ive discussed about Thane.

 

The way how you are saying you don't have Tgane as town, but are defending him in such a way that it feels like you do.

 

 

All Ive said was I didnt think Thane made a slip.  Ive asked why others do.  So that means I have him as Town?  Ive never said that at all this game nor implied it.  You know theres a Null/Undecided slot for reads as well right?

[LilyElizabeth]

 

 

And that is so not the only way. Cop could view him.

At the time, this made me think maybe Thane was GF on a Thane/Eld team. I've since revised my opinion on Eldrick. 

 

 

Ok, so I just want to make sure Im following you.  If Im incorrect here please let me know.

 

So atp you thought:

 

Thane and Eldrick were scummates in back 2 back consecutive games

 

and

 

In a 9er had a GF and Cop

 

and

 

somehow this change of heart you had on Eldrick occurred within 3 min.

 

 

The 3 minutes is incidental. I was catching up and commenting as I went. As for the rest, I thought it strange that Eld was suggesting a cop view. That's usually only done by scum with a GF. And you know as well as I do that it's possible although not probable that they could have been scum two games in a row. I've since changed my mind on Eldrick, as you know. 

[Thane Vakarian]

not a big fan of both claims that are already on the table to be honest. Unnecessary to do so early in the game.

 

Also townies that are saying things like: 'i'm alright with you lynching me'... i mean, ??? It's not really a towntell if you say it. Not for me. Sounds a bit too easy and doesn't really push anybody into thinking further on the subject.

[Shad_]

 

Different is a vague thing indeed. I'll try to rephrase:

 

Lily is being 'distracting', or is easily distracted, by off topic items. Didn't like her take on 'RL reasons to hide wolfy absence'. It's true that it happens, but nothing new. 

Eldrick posting more calculated and careful in this game. Lacks the confidence he had last game, or makes it look like it.

For Shad, as i said, it's more gut feeling than anything else. He needs to step up his game, though. 

 

Asking for explanations of things you all take for granted is perfectly acceptable behavior. And not alignment indicative. Take for example Eld's comment about Shad's headache. On JN people simply don't use RL stuff as cover. So, since it was looking like maybe people do here, I asked for clarification. 

 

I'm getting used to DM's mafia culture and y'all are getting used to me. If you need to lynch me a few times to "learn" me, then you do. Not much I can do about that. 

 

 

The problem with Eldrick's calling this out is that it hadn't actually happened yet, similar iirc to him voting Sooh for the possibility that she would sit on her joke vote until EoD.  The only time I saw someone pull a "this hasn't actually happened but it might happen later and it would be scummy so we should worry about this player" card was in TUS.  (Either Hallia or someone pushing Hallia, don't recall which.  Every player was scum in that game.)

 

I still don't really get Eldrick's reasoning when I started asking him about the first instance.  He insisted he found me null but still drew attention to it.

[Turin Turambar]

Making dinner right.now. will respond to Z when finished.

[Eldrick4221]

Are there wolves on my train?

 

Shad's gameplay is good. I just looked over it and he is asking questions. He's digging in and trying to figure people out. It's very towny. I don't think he's a wolf ATP

 

Sooh switched to me shortly after I started going at her. She still hasn't come up with a good reason. She has fixated on me too, as she mentioned recently. It's feeling like an OMGUS tunnel.

 

If there's a wolf on my train, it's Sooh.

[LilyElizabeth]

Hallia has 8 posts, which is more than I remember her having. She hasn't done much this game except vote me with no reason. I want an explanation for the vote and more content from her. 

 

 

Vote Hallia

[Eldrick4221]

 

Turin's points on zander's view on thane are ringing true to me. Turin looks better for it and zander worse. Both are still town to me, but Zander isn't as strong anymore.

 

WHAT POINT?

 

That I don think Thane made a slip.  Its really all Ive discussed about Thane.

 

I haven't ISO'd you. It's just an impression of what he said about you, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

i'm gonna go over your stuff and see if I see what he did.

[LilyElizabeth]

 

 

Different is a vague thing indeed. I'll try to rephrase:

 

Lily is being 'distracting', or is easily distracted, by off topic items. Didn't like her take on 'RL reasons to hide wolfy absence'. It's true that it happens, but nothing new. 

Eldrick posting more calculated and careful in this game. Lacks the confidence he had last game, or makes it look like it.

For Shad, as i said, it's more gut feeling than anything else. He needs to step up his game, though. 

 

Asking for explanations of things you all take for granted is perfectly acceptable behavior. And not alignment indicative. Take for example Eld's comment about Shad's headache. On JN people simply don't use RL stuff as cover. So, since it was looking like maybe people do here, I asked for clarification. 

 

I'm getting used to DM's mafia culture and y'all are getting used to me. If you need to lynch me a few times to "learn" me, then you do. Not much I can do about that. 

 

 

The problem with Eldrick's calling this out is that it hadn't actually happened yet, similar iirc to him voting Sooh for the possibility that she would sit on her joke vote until EoD.  The only time I saw someone pull a "this hasn't actually happened but it might happen later and it would be scummy so we should worry about this player" card was in TUS.  (Either Hallia or someone pushing Hallia, don't recall which.  Every player was scum in that game.)

 

I still don't really get Eldrick's reasoning when I started asking him about the first instance.  He insisted he found me null but still drew attention to it.

 

That doesn't change the fact that my asking for clarification is a null tell. 

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

Different is a vague thing indeed. I'll try to rephrase:

 

Lily is being 'distracting', or is easily distracted, by off topic items. Didn't like her take on 'RL reasons to hide wolfy absence'. It's true that it happens, but nothing new. 

Eldrick posting more calculated and careful in this game. Lacks the confidence he had last game, or makes it look like it.

For Shad, as i said, it's more gut feeling than anything else. He needs to step up his game, though. 

 

Asking for explanations of things you all take for granted is perfectly acceptable behavior. And not alignment indicative. Take for example Eld's comment about Shad's headache. On JN people simply don't use RL stuff as cover. So, since it was looking like maybe people do here, I asked for clarification. 

 

I'm getting used to DM's mafia culture and y'all are getting used to me. If you need to lynch me a few times to "learn" me, then you do. Not much I can do about that. 

 

 

The problem with Eldrick's calling this out is that it hadn't actually happened yet, similar iirc to him voting Sooh for the possibility that she would sit on her joke vote until EoD.  The only time I saw someone pull a "this hasn't actually happened but it might happen later and it would be scummy so we should worry about this player" card was in TUS.  (Either Hallia or someone pushing Hallia, don't recall which.  Every player was scum in that game.)

 

I still don't really get Eldrick's reasoning when I started asking him about the first instance.  He insisted he found me null but still drew attention to it.

 

Because scum did it in a game you played before in no way means I'm scum for doing it. One game isn't even an acceptable sample size to determine if it's a scummy action or not. It was done by scum there. It's being done by town here.

 

I still don't see a problem with pointing out what could be a problem before it comes one.

[LilyElizabeth]

After my reread, this is how I'm feeling. A lot of it is intuitive rather than having actual hard reasons, but it is what it is. 

 

1. Thane – If I had to decide on him right now, I’d lean scum.
2. Shad – post #58 feels town
3. Sooh – liking her posts so far. She seems to be thinking and honestly scum hunting
4. Hallia – scum lean. Really don’t like the vote with no explanation, even after being asked for one. She doesn’t give one.
5. Zander – Not sure. Want him to be town, but null for now
6. Eldrick – His meltdown felt like frustrated townie to me. Town
7. Lily – utterly townie
8. Taborline – null. Not much content yet
9. Turin – Not sure yet. He’s very focused on Thane. Tunneling may be his style. 

[Sooh]

 

 

 

 

SHad Turin Scum Team?

 

LMK.

What's your take on him so far? What strikes you as different from Turin1?

 

 

 

 

 

He seems odd, i guess.  The OMGUS vote was bad imo.  He voted Thane again to start off this game as well as the the last game so kinda null.  But i dont like the reasoning for the switch and I kinda disagree that dropping a 2nd vote someone isnt a big deal in a 9 player game.

 

I'm on board with this. I like what I see from Zander so far!

 

 

It's one vote in 5. I have reason to think he could be mafia. Others have mentioned his posts. If he had no votes would you have considered voting him for those statements?

I don't remember who else really sussed Thane for that post that Turin voted him for other than Lily. The way I read the reactions to Turin's initial vote I think what people including myself are reacting to is that Thane came across (at least to me) as joking, however I can see the other interpretation if I want to as well. The vote also came really close to mine, which was truly a joke vote based on the previous game. Zander asked later about if the vote was a joke or not, and I asked the same thing, because I didn't see Thane's post as anything but a joke, and I'm guessing others might have felt that way too. 

 

I don't think Turin works with Thane either as a team. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SHad Turin Scum Team?

 

LMK.

What's your take on him so far? What strikes you as different from Turin1?

 

 

 

He seems odd, i guess.  The OMGUS vote was bad imo.  He voted Thane again to start off this game as well as the the last game so kinda null.  But i dont like the reasoning for the switch and I kinda disagree that dropping a 2nd vote someone isnt a big deal in a 9 player game.

 

 

 

 

Eh, it didn't feel like something I would call 'omgus', probably because I was leery of Eldrick when I read it.  I disagree with red, quite a bit actually.  When scum smell an easy lynch and piggyback a poorly developed train, they get outed for it more often than not.  When scum acquire a small train early, they're prone to make goofy/unnatural reactions.  Two early votes on a player is never an inherently bad thing.  Make what you will of his reason for dropping the vote.  I"m not bothered by it.

 

Can you point out to me what posts by Eldrick that made you leery before this point? I'm also not entirely sure what you mean by the rest. Does it mean anything directly in relation to this game? 

 

 

 

It's one vote in 5. I have reason to think he could be mafia. Others have mentioned his posts. If he had no votes would you have considered voting him for those statements?

 

Good question. I haven't seen enough to lay down a vote, but I am watching him. It isn't because he already has votes. 

 

Can you point out what you were watching Thane for here? 

 

I agree with Turin on this one Zander, how are we supposed to push people if you can't cast two votes/provoke people to make moves?

 

Again another diplomatic post by Taborline. 

 

I like Hallia's #87. It's short and not commenting on much, but it is commenting. 

 

 

 

 

 

If you read someone as null then you DO NOT KNOW that person is NOT MAFIA.

 

5 to lynch means 2 votes is not gonna cause a lynch. most likely scenario is 2 mafia so need at least one more town player to vote him before that could even be a possibility.

 

someone is gonna eventually get two votes, what difference does it make if it is now or later?

Of course not. All it means is Sooh is probably not your teammate. Both voting someone at the beginning is a risky move.

 

Your reasoning is crap, though. I'm pointing out my side of it so it doesn't build on its own.

 

Is Sooh exactly null to you at present?

Do you think it is riskier to make the first vote or the second in this circumstance?

why is my reasoning "mother's milk in a cup"? 

Why do you not want to have a train build up? Again it will have to happen sooner or later. Is it "too early" to play or is it because it is on Thane?

 

 

 

 

At the time, yes, I thought she was null. I read her vote as a joke vote, and joke votes are null.

I think the second vote is riskier. I've already covered this. You voting someone with an existing vote was the issue.

I actually don't remember why I thought this. I may have not read the spoiler. After looking over it again, I see your point that it looks like he has TMI.

I'm not against the idea of a train building up. I just thought it was building up too quickly. There was barely any discussion and someone already had 2 votes. It had nothing to do with who was being voted.

 

This post is sort of backtracking what has been a discussion for most of the game up to here. Why not clarify this earlier? 

[Eldrick4221]

I vote Turin. Turin votes me. Zander sees it as OMGUS

 

Zander explains that he sees people reacting to being voted by voting back as omgus

 

I vote Sooh. Sooh votes me. Zander likes the reasoning.

 

Noted.

[LilyElizabeth]

 

 

It's one vote in 5. I have reason to think he could be mafia. Others have mentioned his posts. If he had no votes would you have considered voting him for those statements?

 

Good question. I haven't seen enough to lay down a vote, but I am watching him. It isn't because he already has votes. 

 

Can you point out what you were watching Thane for here? 

 

I think it was the wolfy thing that has got Turin on his case. 

[Zander?]

I vote Turin. Turin votes me. Zander sees it as OMGUS

 

Zander explains that he sees people reacting to being voted by voting back as omgus

 

I vote Sooh. Sooh votes me. Zander likes the reasoning.

 

Noted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No. I already stated that I had you as null.

Well, I think we've just walked in a giant circle.

 

I didn't realize you were saying I might use it as an excuse to lurk even if I am town, which is a weird thought to me because I don't think towns look for excuses to lurk, but I'm getting the impression that's really what you meant to suggest, so I suppose the statement's null.

 

What do you think of Sooh's reaction to your vote?

 

...because I didn't say that. I have no idea if you are town or not. As such, I look out for things that could mean you are scum. I.E. a reason to lurk.

 

Do I think you're scummy? No. I have you as null.

 

Having you as null doesn't mean I think you're town either. I look out for reasons to think that too.

 

As for Sooh's reaction to my vote, I'm not sure how to take it yet. I don't remember if that's how she plays or not, and I'm not just taking her word for it. I didn't, and still don't, like the concept of leaving a joke vote on someone after stating that it's a joke vote. She hasn't stated a reason to leave it there, and her continuing to do so has bought her my vote.

 

Feel free to go back and look in my other games, especially the most recent ones. I tend to stay put until I have a reason to switch. Thanks for giving me one I guess.

 

[v]Eldrick[/v]

 

This seems weird and reaching, even for you.

 

I don't read other games. I go by what happens in the game itself, and general feelings on how someone plays. I also don't listen to what someone says about their own playstyle, as that isn't to be trusted. If someone else can confirm they noticed that about you, then I will consider it.

 

I have a problem with you not seeing the issue of leaving a joke vote on someone. If that is indeed how you play, you should consider how that looks. This is not reaching, it's a legitimate bad concept imo.

 

Eldrick, I'm literally talking about the last two games which you were in. You have already read them. I did the same thing there. 

 

The ONE THING I find you CAN trust about people in mafia games is when they talk about playstyle, because it can be so easily checked. Like, I don't even tend to read when people talk about their meta, because they don't have to lie about that. The most clear example I can come up with here is Pizza. If he talks about his meta, then those posts ring true because they are 100% true. You can't ever nail him on that. IF I say that this is how I play, it is because that's how I play. The fact that I pointed it out should be null to you, but should also get you to reconsider your approach to saying the initial behavior is scummy.

 

There is no issue in leaving a joke vote on somebody unless they are in danger of being lynched. Like I said, had Thane gotten more votes than Turin's on top of mine I would have unvoted, flat out. I wouldn't have waited for someone more scummy to come along if he was at L-2 unless I actually thought he was scummy. The only danger I see in leaving a joke vote is if they get speed lynched, but seeing as this is D1 I don't think that was ever going to happen. Then it would have been a bad vote in that I couldn't ever have blamed anyone else for a possible bad lynch. 

 

 

 

First of all, both of those games, I knew who the mafia was (at the beginning in GnD's case) and it skewed my interpretation of what people did.

Secondly, watching how long someone keeps their vote on people isn't something I tend to do. You could very well be telling the truth here.

 

But I disagree with your reasoning on why you left your joke vote on. It's clear to me now that it's just an issue with differing playstyles. It's a scummy move to do so IMO, and is still a good enough reason to vote you. I am notoriously bad at reading you. I usually have you in null for a good part of the game. It's still the best reason for my vote ATP.

 

Do you still think I'm reaching? Do you not understand why I think it's scummy? You are voting me because of why I'm voting you, are you not?

 

I'm voting you because I think your reason for voting me as well as your reason for sussing others earlier on is basically you just throwing dirt to see if something sticks. It may be a townie move, in that you are paranoid enough to do so, and it may be a scummy move in order to throw suspicion on people. Jury's still out, but right now I'm leaning towards the latter. I'll keep you posted

 

 

i dont hate this post from Sooh.  Its a good observation.  Ill wait to see how she progresses with this,

 

 

 

Can you please show me where this occurred....

 

Eldrick please stop and read the post and look for the context before making comments like the one in the top quote.

[Eldrick4221]

Finished Zander ISO. Confirming that he never said he had a read on Thane. His only reference to thane has been questioning if his early post was a slip or not, and questioning Turin's push on Thane.

 

Gonna go back and check Thane's stance on it now.

 

@Zander what is your read on Thane ATP?

[Eldrick4221]

 

I vote Turin. Turin votes me. Zander sees it as OMGUS

 

Zander explains that he sees people reacting to being voted by voting back as omgus

 

I vote Sooh. Sooh votes me. Zander likes the reasoning.

 

Noted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No. I already stated that I had you as null.

Well, I think we've just walked in a giant circle.

 

I didn't realize you were saying I might use it as an excuse to lurk even if I am town, which is a weird thought to me because I don't think towns look for excuses to lurk, but I'm getting the impression that's really what you meant to suggest, so I suppose the statement's null.

 

What do you think of Sooh's reaction to your vote?

 

...because I didn't say that. I have no idea if you are town or not. As such, I look out for things that could mean you are scum. I.E. a reason to lurk.

 

Do I think you're scummy? No. I have you as null.

 

Having you as null doesn't mean I think you're town either. I look out for reasons to think that too.

 

As for Sooh's reaction to my vote, I'm not sure how to take it yet. I don't remember if that's how she plays or not, and I'm not just taking her word for it. I didn't, and still don't, like the concept of leaving a joke vote on someone after stating that it's a joke vote. She hasn't stated a reason to leave it there, and her continuing to do so has bought her my vote.

 

Feel free to go back and look in my other games, especially the most recent ones. I tend to stay put until I have a reason to switch. Thanks for giving me one I guess.

 

[v]Eldrick[/v]

 

This seems weird and reaching, even for you.

 

I don't read other games. I go by what happens in the game itself, and general feelings on how someone plays. I also don't listen to what someone says about their own playstyle, as that isn't to be trusted. If someone else can confirm they noticed that about you, then I will consider it.

 

I have a problem with you not seeing the issue of leaving a joke vote on someone. If that is indeed how you play, you should consider how that looks. This is not reaching, it's a legitimate bad concept imo.

 

Eldrick, I'm literally talking about the last two games which you were in. You have already read them. I did the same thing there. 

 

The ONE THING I find you CAN trust about people in mafia games is when they talk about playstyle, because it can be so easily checked. Like, I don't even tend to read when people talk about their meta, because they don't have to lie about that. The most clear example I can come up with here is Pizza. If he talks about his meta, then those posts ring true because they are 100% true. You can't ever nail him on that. IF I say that this is how I play, it is because that's how I play. The fact that I pointed it out should be null to you, but should also get you to reconsider your approach to saying the initial behavior is scummy.

 

There is no issue in leaving a joke vote on somebody unless they are in danger of being lynched. Like I said, had Thane gotten more votes than Turin's on top of mine I would have unvoted, flat out. I wouldn't have waited for someone more scummy to come along if he was at L-2 unless I actually thought he was scummy. The only danger I see in leaving a joke vote is if they get speed lynched, but seeing as this is D1 I don't think that was ever going to happen. Then it would have been a bad vote in that I couldn't ever have blamed anyone else for a possible bad lynch. 

 

 

 

First of all, both of those games, I knew who the mafia was (at the beginning in GnD's case) and it skewed my interpretation of what people did.

Secondly, watching how long someone keeps their vote on people isn't something I tend to do. You could very well be telling the truth here.

 

But I disagree with your reasoning on why you left your joke vote on. It's clear to me now that it's just an issue with differing playstyles. It's a scummy move to do so IMO, and is still a good enough reason to vote you. I am notoriously bad at reading you. I usually have you in null for a good part of the game. It's still the best reason for my vote ATP.

 

Do you still think I'm reaching? Do you not understand why I think it's scummy? You are voting me because of why I'm voting you, are you not?

 

I'm voting you because I think your reason for voting me as well as your reason for sussing others earlier on is basically you just throwing dirt to see if something sticks. It may be a townie move, in that you are paranoid enough to do so, and it may be a scummy move in order to throw suspicion on people. Jury's still out, but right now I'm leaning towards the latter. I'll keep you posted

 

 

i dont hate this post from Sooh.  Its a good observation.  Ill wait to see how she progresses with this,

 

 

 

Can you please show me where this occurred....

 

Eldrick please stop and read the post and look for the context before making comments like the one in the top quote.

 

You straight out said that if someone votes in reaction to a vote that it's omgus. Is the fact that I pushed my position on her a little before she reacted your deciding factor?

[Shad_]

Can you point out to me what posts by Eldrick that made you leery before this point? I'm also not entirely sure what you mean by the rest. Does it mean anything directly in relation to this game?

Red, I sort of covered both of these on the last page and a half. #22 and #24. The first didn't sit right with me, and I couldn't put a finger on why at the time, but I explained it on re-read. I've been taking issue with the business of calling out my headache comment all game.

 

Blue, Turin dropped a second vote, Zander didn't like the idea of two votes on a player that early,  I explained why it didn't bother me.

[Eldrick4221]

Good observation = liked reasoning = not omgus iyo

[Eldrick4221]

So voting me while still considering the option that I'm town makes it not omgus?

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

If you read someone as null then you DO NOT KNOW that person is NOT MAFIA.

 

5 to lynch means 2 votes is not gonna cause a lynch. most likely scenario is 2 mafia so need at least one more town player to vote him before that could even be a possibility.

 

someone is gonna eventually get two votes, what difference does it make if it is now or later?

Of course not. All it means is Sooh is probably not your teammate. Both voting someone at the beginning is a risky move.

 

Your reasoning is crap, though. I'm pointing out my side of it so it doesn't build on its own.

 

Is Sooh exactly null to you at present?

Do you think it is riskier to make the first vote or the second in this circumstance?

why is my reasoning "mother's milk in a cup"? 

Why do you not want to have a train build up? Again it will have to happen sooner or later. Is it "too early" to play or is it because it is on Thane?

 

 

 

 

At the time, yes, I thought she was null. I read her vote as a joke vote, and joke votes are null.

I think the second vote is riskier. I've already covered this. You voting someone with an existing vote was the issue.

I actually don't remember why I thought this. I may have not read the spoiler. After looking over it again, I see your point that it looks like he has TMI.

I'm not against the idea of a train building up. I just thought it was building up too quickly. There was barely any discussion and someone already had 2 votes. It had nothing to do with who was being voted.

 

This post is sort of backtracking what has been a discussion for most of the game up to here. Why not clarify this earlier? 

 

Why would I clarify it before I changed my mind? After I did, I went back to reread and noticed the post.

[Eldrick4221]

Z, they both claimed character and role. I don't care about the characters TBH. They gave the names but I did not get the impression either of them thought it was an automatic clear for giving them. In both those games you were claiming like your character in one and your PM colour in the other AUTOMATICALLY LOCK CLEARED YOU AS TOWN. That isn't what either of them did. They gave the info and went about their business (or can you show me where either of them did). You are trying to compare apples and oranges.

 

If you don't have Thane as Town why do you seem so adamant to not believe anything bad of him? Did you ever read him and give thought like I asked for earlier? 

 

So before it was me and Shad and now it is me and Lily. It seems you are very convinced I am mafia. If you are so sure why are you still voting Lily? 

 

It's this post here that got my attention. The problem he seems to have, the one I agree with, is you having an issue with someone seeing Thane as scum withut having your own reason of him being town. Why is Turin's push on Thane bugging you so much?

[Sooh]

 

 

 

It's one vote in 5. I have reason to think he could be mafia. Others have mentioned his posts. If he had no votes would you have considered voting him for those statements?

 

Good question. I haven't seen enough to lay down a vote, but I am watching him. It isn't because he already has votes. 

 

Can you point out what you were watching Thane for here? 

 

I think it was the wolfy thing that has got Turin on his case. 

 

That thing about Zander all the way at the beginning?