[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[wish-tree]

Please don't keep requoting a post to only make a small comment. It's better to snip it down to contain only what you're talking about...or just reference it. Otherwise it's hard to read.

Uh, sorry, just did that. XD

[wish-tree]

Turin and Zander -- talk to me! This means you!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Not quoting Turin/Pizza, but huh...

 

Two different interpretations of the same scenario - Pizza felt that the Shad explanation/reaction to the meta thing was towny, while Turin felt that it was scummy.

 

These are gut feels, right? No real basis? If not, please explain. The post rang null to me personally, but uhh, I would like to know why you think this.

 

I went into it, the reason I have is that it lacks a motive.

 

I feel almost every post a scumbag does has a motive or a reason to manipulate someone.

 

If hes scum he's got an idea of what to say there that advances his agenda.

 

It's not particularly strong as a tell but it's more than null to me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Please don't keep requoting a post to only make a small comment. It's better to snip it down to contain only what you're talking about...or just reference it. Otherwise it's hard to read.

 

+1000

[Kaylee]

Turin: apprently not clear to me. It is now though.

 

I sometimes miss things when playing catch up. Besides, I'd rather ask to clarify if I'm unsure then just assume I know what someone's point is.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Zander, put the pedal to the medal.

 

I don't like having you as a +1 villager. I should have like 7 points from you by now.

 

Hugs brother. Giving you the space to do your thing.

[wish-tree]

 

Not quoting Turin/Pizza, but huh...

Two different interpretations of the same scenario - Pizza felt that the Shad explanation/reaction to the meta thing was towny, while Turin felt that it was scummy.

These are gut feels, right? No real basis? If not, please explain. The post rang null to me personally, but uhh, I would like to know why you think this.

 

 

I went into it, the reason I have is that it lacks a motive.

 

I feel almost every post a scumbag does has a motive or a reason to manipulate someone.

 

If hes scum he's got an idea of what to say there that advances his agenda.

 

It's not particularly strong as a tell but it's more than null to me.

Hmmmm

 

Okay, I think that makes sense to me. I actually find that lacking a motive is kind of scummy... It makes me think of scum who wait on the sidelines while town flounders about.

 

Imma make my own estimation of things that have happened around Shad, but I don't particularly like rereading. I will do it, though. Switching to laptop.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

OFC YOU CAN USE THE LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

ALSO TELL CORY I LOVE HIM!!!!!!

 

 

:wub: :wub:

 

 

I've never played with you/seen you Town, but I'd expect you to just LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! (or at least Lol first)

No need to tell him, he's reading along :P

 

Cass I have no Meta on you...is joke votes normal for you?  How do you play?  What are your scum tells???  Or is it just straight Rand.Org has forever branded you a Wolf??!!!

 

lmklmklmk

 

- Joke votes are not normal for me except if I feel relatively comfortable with someone both inside and outside the game. 

- Dice and Penny are probably the only players I would jokevote at this stage of my career.

- Voting is not something I do lightly in any case (to this point). I don't like being wrong. I'm think I'm learning the advantages of throwing votes around, but it's not something I easily/naturally want to do when there's a game to win!!

 

I play... differently to this? More carefully/sensored? Usually. As either alignment. But I'm hyper! (winding down) and trying not to take the game so seriously, trying to be more me than a player, if that makes sense? Blame Chris/Cory if I don't make sense. They encouraged the unleashing of #FullCass! :D :D 

 

 

 

 

 

good morning

 

Morning Turin havent played with you in a long time or really much at all for that matter looking forward to it man!!!!

it has been a while. let's lunch some wolves.

 

 

Lets do this brother!!!

 

#Gutread awkward

 

Turin have you played with Cass??

 

Like do you have any Meta on her?

 

Im a pretty heavy Meta reliant player so I need some info on her.

#Gutread more awkward because bold reads forced/unnecessary

 

 

Z, I think I played once or twice with her in the game. I don't recall a lot about her but I think she is a more analytical player. I recall dice always having to tell her to go to sleep.

 

For me, I'm Turin and I like lazy Sunday mornings in bed, medium sized walks in the park and living here in the shire.

 

I'm town. Like always.

 

I can be analytical when I put my mind to it. I like sifting through stuff and finding nitty-gritty inconsistencies. That goes for play in either alignment.

I've tried to sleep more the last couple of games. I think you're more likely to understand me correctly this game if you think like Dice and just question if I seem like me.

 

 

TLDR I'm wary, but I doubt I'm voting you today Zan, because I want fun :D If you're Town and we figure each other out this game will #FULLTWINENFPFTW!

 

 

 

(1)How serious, if at all are you with the lolololololol part??? And also I always need to tell Cory i love him ldo!!!!! lollololololol

 

Thanks for the Meta info, I look forward to hearing others weigh in on it!!!  and I cant wait to see #FULLCASS....i picture something like this....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems like you've already come in with the preconceived notion of reading me scummy and that's not a good look my dear (2)...Like each of my interactions youve felt off about,  I mean I get that people Ive never played with before may sense that but its just that all youre using is Forced and Awkward....and like 6 pages in, that seems very weird, but then I'm also weighing in the ENFP (3) so Im kinda meh with this, but something Im noticing fwiw.

 

4. Why would you think my Meta talk is forced or unnecessary, especially sense theres a bunch of players I havent played with much or at all and the fact that everyone who has played with me will tell you IM EXACTLY a Meta reliant player???!!!!

 

 

Well I want to make sure we figure each other out because so far it feels a little off putting to me my dear!!!!

 

 

1. Pretty serious that I thought you'd be less serious tbh!

2. Potentially I expected you to be obvTown to me if you were Town and I'm honing in on you because you're not yet. So kinda the opposite to pre-conceiving that someone's scum (lolannoyingwolfgifisannoyinglol);

3. Yup. That's what, if anything, will have me lean you Town right now.

 

4. The meta questions stood out to me because I expected you to try and read me on your own. 

 

Basically, looking at it, I think most of it comes down to #assumptions (on my part), and those assumptions are quite potentially silly given that we've never played together before. I'll reign in the tinfoil for a while if you do! :P

 

 

 

1. As surprising as this may seem I can actually be serious from time to time my dear....especially when Wolf hunting time!!!!  I still love to have ofc but sometimes I need to be serious to get points across and get what it is Im looking for from people.

 

2. You expected me to be obv Town...ive got no problem with that.  What i do have a bit of a problem with is the fact you really did come in seemingly reading me from that standpoint hence why i brought it up.  Maybe that wasnt YOUR intention but it was what it FELT like to me.

 

3,  I think im missing something here can you explain it please?

 

4.  The Meta questions felt off because you expected me to read you on my own AFTER I've mentioned that IM A META RELIANT player??? Cass you'll have to understand my #ENFPROCKNROLLMUSICTOWN why that statement really really pings me I hope......

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ wish-tree

 

That's valid, but do you think that's what Shad has been doing all round? Or most of it, or is his main motivation so far today?

 

I hadn't gotten that impression. What do you see when you look beyond that one post?

 

Keep in mind it was page 1. There will be a lot of posts on page 1 and many of the early pages which lack a motive. Most of the first few pages are garbage posts.

 

I read them anyway just in case. Shad was an exception to my usual nulls that early.

[Zander?]

 

 

Want to vote Celeste but hesitating hard.

Why? Is it because I randomly voted Cass? Or something else.

 

 

I like Penny for Town here. Will be interested to see Pizza's response.

 

 

Why?

 

 

 

 

 

Woo. I am awesome. That value.

Oh wait it isn't hearthstone.Still cool.So wassup.

Is the first one a quotation or reference to something?

 

The first thing my character made me think of.

 

I like where your head is at for reasons I've been criticized for in the past. I think this comes from town more often than not.  I will hold you accountable to character claim later in the game, fine with you not doing so right now.

 

 

I hope you can read Csarmi cause I tend to not understand what he talks about and find him inherently scummy like in Star Wars.

[Zander?]

 

 

Wish you said you'd be leaving in a few hours, then you left immediately.

 

I'm not saying it's a tell or a major concern, but I generally dislike the fly-by and the lack of real time involvement.

 

Pizza this feel a little more like NBC where i was able to get a bit better read of you.  Its still different but Ive more stuff to look for and compare some to.  I know you change it up.  But theres still gonna be some similarities imo.

 

This is accurate but I'm not outside my scum range yet.

 

I am villagery-null so far, imo.

 

 

 

lololololololol

 

Pizza GOAT

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

@ Cass, I would say that Lenlo posting in that manner is completely null for him (1). Also too early for it to mean anything about Shad as they were basically the only two in thread at that time (2).

Ty! (*Numbers added to points for reference)

1) What differences would you expect from Lenlo as either alignment?

2) Do you have a read on either?

 

In that particular jokey exchange I would expect Len to be exactly the same in either alignment. He loves to have fun with the other players even if it makes him potentially look bad. The fun is (or at least was) more important to him. That is why I said it is completely null.

 

Now if at a later time he tries to use that read as valid then I would find him most suspicious.

[Turin Turambar]

Turin and Zander -- talk to me! This means you!

hello?

 

What you wanna talk about?

[Cass]

 

 

FWIW I've played with Penny more than I've played with anyone else (twice). I'll let her play a bit and when I think I've got a better handle/she's settled properly into a groove I'll compare her play more thoroughly with what I've seen. She was fairly closed but straight-shooting in the last game. Gut says she's probably pushing you for reactions, using the joke vote on me to test. I don't have a problem with that vote.

 

With the bold:

1. Why don't you agree with the vote?

2. Are you against joke-votes in general?

3. What are your own philosophies/tendencies wrt voting, when you're Town?

 

I can potentially understand the reserve, but I want explanations in your words. It stands out to me because so far I haven't seen experienced players hold back early votes as Town if they think the player deserves some actual pressure?

1. The target is my current easiest-read villager. That's unrelated to when the vote was cast, or even if it was before you started looking townie to me. I feel scums are going to vote for villagers more today than each other. When your vote is on someone I think is town-telling I don't care when you cast it, it still concerns me and I want to know more. Example Turin's vote on Shad.

 

2. No, but I hadn't any inkling it was intended as a joke. Missed the humor there if it was. Joking is part of the game but I do have issues when I can't see the humor in something and I generally read it scummy.

 

3. In general just to avoid voting for people I think are town, until it's a question of being required to make a choice between them.

 

Further, voting for someone I find scummy, or just to get the discussion going, or someone I have as null if I don't have any scummy people, or my scummy person is already getting multiple votes and I want to gain more data than just wagoning one person.

 

Why I'd hold back on voting someone is sometimes I'd rather draw them out more, whereas voting sometimes provokes a defensive / shutting down reaction. Example, I felt like I'd be able to read NotBob better a couple games back by not voting him, than by voting him. Plus I had a more scummy target for most of the game.

 

I had early suspicion of NotBob and Nolder in one game and I voted Nolder, and pushed on NotBob, and then I had early suspicion of Lenlo and tried to resolve it through pressure, and then when I got enough from him that caused me to see it was outside of a typical scum behavior, I dropped it and went after a different suspect. I thought that was much more useful in solving Lenlo than not engaging him because he's already an open player and drawn out. Nolder I had also pegged as someone who was a more open townie than not, but NotBob I felt was a closed player.

 

Closed players have a very different style from me, and pressuring them doesn't get a reaction. I vote them to lynch them, not pressure them.

 

I try to solve the open players with pressure votes more. Gets their attention, gets their reactions better.

 

But that's one reason in a stew of reasons why I'd vote a certain way. Sometimes that gets overridden by other concerns, so I wouldn't say I have a definite pattern here. Just some principles that shine through to the surface more than others, at certain times.

 

 

I think that's a comprehensive answer but let me know.

 

 

Very comprehensive TY! I also really struggle with closed players I don't know, and I get the logic. Not as worried about how you mentioned 'could vote' instead of just voting now. 

 

@Zander!!! - Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kaylee!

 

Can you elaborate on the bold please?

 

- What makes you feel good/Why?

- What meta do you have on Town!/Scum!Lenlo?

 

 

 

I like the feel of your posts. You don't seem to be reserved as you do when scum. I've been scum with you and as scum you tend to come across as being careful. This game you seem to be trying to figure things out. Basically saying things \pointing them out as you see them. You're thinking things through but don't seem to care as much how you're coming across... More focused on the game and less on yourself I guess is what I'm saying.

 

On Leno: As town he's more likely to say whatever pops in his head, less filtered. As scum he's very careful what and how he says things. As I said it's early yet but leaning town.

 

Ok for Kaylee's rational on me - I've seen her make the same call on me as Town before with similar reasoning.

 

Ty for the input on Lenlo. Watching that space.

 

 

Noted this. Penny is my name not one of my many usernames.

 

Penn, current leans?

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, lovelies. I forgot about this game while trying to fill in signups for my own game.

 

Anyway, I'm about to leave in a few hours.

 

First things first, I haven't played very frequently with many people.

 

I'd like to say from initial post reads, my two solid town reads are Cass and Celeste.

 

Enthusiasm and involvement looking good from Cass.

 

Celeste is town because of her tone. You'll have to trust me on this. Played with her a lot.

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

Who... are you? Have we met?

I like the vote of confidence ( ) but how am I a solid Town read? Seems odd, but I'll wait for your identity and answer before I comment on my lean.

 

 

 

Hi, I'm Lenny! Feel free to call me that in thread.

 

 

Lennnnnnyyyyyyyyyy!

 

I thought from the reads it might be you, but.. Why on Earth did you use the word lovelies???

 

@Penny is this normal in game??

 

@Thread - I fully expect these two to be able to figure each other out. 

 

Lovelies is weird because Lenny's not usually a flowery/emotive sort of girl. I've never played with her before.

[Songstress]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT (unchanged):
 
Shad (1): Turin
 
Not voting (12): Shad, Kaylee, Zander, Pizza, Csarmi, Laine, Lenlo, Wish, Pral, Nolder, Celeste, Cass

 

----------

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

No deadline has been set at this time.

[Kaylee]

[unvote]

I'm curious why the unvote? The timing, seeing as Pizza had been questioning/pressing your on it, just feels...off.

[Cass]

This is to clarify my town read on Celeste.

Don't call me crazy. This is a combo of tone and meta.

Hello

  

You might be thinking that I'm making a mountain of a molehill, but this is simple and no frills. That's towny coming from her.

 

Well, unfamiliar relatively speaking.  I think I've played with all of you at least once except Cass.

I think we played together twice if you were in raganorak.

  

Just a simple statement of fact. Not very jokey, which is what she uses more as scum.

Anyways I am simply excited to be back

  

Also before I head to bed [v]Cass[/v]

She's honest and to the point as town. Even if she joke votes, it's not done with a certain flippant attitude that I see when she's scum. More sass would be scummy, and usually she's super calm as well.

 

 

Accurate read from Wish-Lenny on Celeste-Penny IMO (You two need to stick to one darn name!). 

This based on her D1 in a game that ended less than a week ago, where she was exactly as Wish-Lenny describes. I'm waiting for something more.

 

I kind of wish Wish-Lenny had let a bit more time pass though so I could see how Penny continued on her own.

Null for Lenn because she'd have to say this as either alignment IMO.

[alannalynn]

Catchup will be a little broken since I'm cooking/eating/getting ready for work

Easiest RT interaction for me is 530am-8am EST until Tuesday.

 

 

:dry:   Thought I would get a chance to find out from Cass, but I'm going to bed. Goodnight all

Noooooooooooooooo!

 

In a nutshell, Zander feeling a little forced and you... something. Potentially related to something I half-remember from our scum-game, potentially nothing. 

 

Way too early for any of it to be significant, so don't stress. Unless you're a wolf. Then stress.

 

Because Cory and I will catch you! :P

Two things:

1. Our scum game was literally my first game back to mafia and I wasn't comfortable yet being back and playing. I would say generally I try to take a more lighthearted approach to mafia and don't get srs until later, though I welcome content to look over and note for myself. I also tend to throw comments and reads out early for funsies. Just because I note something doesn't mean it's useful until later (added to a broader observations/trend/whatever). 

2. Zander and I always joke back and forth and pretty much always town read each other early. Doesn't mean I'm not wary of him, because I've seen him play as mafia. We did the same thing as scum mates and nobody thought it was forced lol

 

 

:flamingsword: :flamingsword: :flamingsword:  CLOUDFLAREEEEE

 

Laine what's this mean?

I was mad because I was finally getting to post and Cloudflare shut me out. Stupid servers or something.

 

 

OFC YOU CAN USE THE LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

ALSO TELL CORY I LOVE HIM!!!!!!

 

:wub: :wub:

 

I've never played with you/seen you Town, but I'd expect you to just LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! (or at least Lol first)

No need to tell him, he's reading along :P

Zander always jokes. Until he finds scum or "finds scum." Then he's SRS BNS.

 

 

 

1. Why Lenlo over Shad? Shad can play a good wolf game and Lenlo is pretty null so far.
 
2.The being cute joke comment was saying that they're being really chummy. It wasn't meant to indicate alignments of either, but it is good to note for later in case one of them flips.

 

1. Explained this thought process somewhere earlier (after your post), lmk if something stands out. 

2. Can you elaborate on what conclusions you would draw based on each flip?

 

It was the fact you commented an observation without giving indication of why it was important that stood out. If it's good to note for later, why? If you're Town, why not explain that's what you're thinking? Felt like commenting just to comment because it was the most interesting thing in the thread, but it didn't give us anything to work off - wrt to you, or either of them.

 

Yo! Cass, calm yourself. I'm not a wolf. Why are you wary of me?

 

I can't calm! I'm #CASSUNLEASHED!

And I won't believe you're just a wolf because you say so :P

 

Question: Why are you so serious here? I mentioned wary - not gunning for your lynch!

yet :P

 

 

For better or worse, I was wary because feels on the 'looking forward to some content' part of your first post; the Shad/Lenlo observation that tells us nothing; and you keep mentioning when you'll be back etc.

 

I'm going to reserve my actual read on you until I re-read our joint game (won't be reading it tonight).

/snip/

I would actually say Lenlo (I originally just wrote Lenlove? wtf) a little more likely to be town than Shad, due to his willingness to give Shad a town lean like that.

For now..

Lenlo

Shad

Is this a meta thing you have on Lenlo? (Can you explain?)

 

I don't understand how one can be more Town to you when they both committed the same action (calling each other Town).

Underlined: I need to go back and look..

Bold: Well it's just an awkward interaction if they were both mafia together and I'm not sure I see either of them deciding to just do that to get town read. More likely v-v but I can see v-w too. Would say right now I'm rating Lenlo a little higher for raisons I can't explain. But Shad also feels different from his start last game and I consider that to be positive as well.

Red: I literally said it wasn't meant to be alignment indicative. I think you're jumping on things that mean pretty much nothing right now FYI Zander has a nice beard.

 

Joking aside though, I don't have to explain every thought that I have on thread because more often than not, they may mean nothing or I have no way to substantiate them at that moment.  When I made the "cute" comment, it was barely pages into the game and nothing was happening, I was hoping for more content by the time I got off of work. I have two 10 minute breaks a night, and one 30 minute lunch, I'm not going to write a whole dialogue to explain myself and my every action. Thems the truths

 

Blue: I wasn't being that serious? Also, refer to the above for why I'm back and forth ^^

 

Re-read complete, and my villager leans are thusly

 

We're not giving points for everything this time, that leads to runaway (Lenlo) scumreads which are sucky and don't reverse until it's problem. Instead posts which are likely town but more easily faked as scum are 0 with the word town next to it.

 

Askthepizzaguy (again!)

Cassy +5 initial wtf reaction has been clarified a lot. Yeah blue.

Shad +3 not outside his scum game but much improvement

Laine +2 Not confident but in my top 3

Zander Null points, but +1 overall (Not outside his scum range but I get good vibes)

Csarmi Null points, but +1 good feels

Turin Null points, but +1 good feels

Kaylee Null

Lenlo Null

Celeste Null

 

Wish True Null

Pralaya True Null

Nolder True Null

Don't disagree with this, but I'm realizing I haven't heard much from the bottom of that list. If anything.

 

stopped top of page 8

back to cooking

[Cass]

 

[unvote]

I'm curious why the unvote? The timing, seeing as Pizza had been questioning/pressing your on it, just feels...off.

 

 

*Waits, with popcorn*

[alannalynn]

 

@ Cass, I would say that Lenlo posting in that manner is completely null for him (1). Also too early for it to mean anything about Shad as they were basically the only two in thread at that time (2).

 

Ty! (*Numbers added to points for reference)

1) What differences would you expect from Lenlo as either alignment? 

2) Do you have a read on either?

 

I can believe Lenlo's tone is null, given my complete and utter misread of him in Diabolo. But still, this post stood out:

I think this is the post you're referring to Cass? Or was there another one?

 

Also, what experience do you have with Shad?

[Zander?]

Going to brunch bbl.

 

MAKE SURE TO ANSWER MY QUESTION IF YOU HAVENT ALREADY!!

 

I answered this jokingly already.  Is this actually something serious brother?

 

 

 

Want to vote Celeste but hesitating hard.

Why? Is it because I randomly voted Cass? Or something else.

 

 

 

[unvote]

 

This is unvote to some questioning is very strange imo.

 

Why unvote now Penny?

[Zander?]

 

 

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

this is not true all the time and you know it.

 

 

Do you believe, even if it is inaccurate, that this is her honest opinion? You're saying she's remembering incorrectly or is lying deliberately or neither.

 

 

Pizza really otb thus far.

[Zander?]

 

 

Shad, please attempt to describe your take on Lenlo's meta.

First ya Id like to hear your thoughts on Len's Meta.....and mine as well!!!!!!

Summarize everything I think I know about how Lenlo thinks and behaves as town vs as scum?

 

That's a long exercise, and one I find borderline counterproductive at this stage, and I don't really think of people as a list of dos and don'ts in the first place. The whole value of a meta read is that it allows you to catch people being dishonest in subtle ways that are not objectively alignment indicative.

 

I'll call what I see when I see it.

[V] Shad [/v]

 

 

 

Why???

[Lenlo]

 

Going to brunch bbl.

 

MAKE SURE TO ANSWER MY QUESTION IF YOU HAVENT ALREADY!!

 

I answered this jokingly already.  Is this actually something serious brother?

 

I assumed it was.

[Zander?]

 

Trust is earned. ;)

 

Go ahead and back up your Celeste town read. Cite the posts you're looking at and the reasons you're using. Use examples (plural) of her acting that way as town and contrast with a scum game of hers.

 

You want to persuade me she's town you have to work at it.

I agreed with this. Liking Pizza's tone.

 

 

 

..........Strictly uneasy of Kay because #Frozen......

 

i wanted to "lolololololol" but I can't because well you know.....#Frozen