Star Wars the Force Awakens (Beware of Spoilers)

[thegakrules]

Who's going?   I have my tickets already for Thursday December 17

[thegakrules]

If you havent seen it... GO!! it is amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cory Caboose]

You have like five more days to avoid spoilers guys

 

Film is excellent

[Moon Sedai]

My thoughts "...!"

[Red2111]

we went and saw it.

 

all i can say is  ....  meh

 

 

granted, i've never been a star wars fan; its the one fandom that i've tried multiple times to get into and just cant for some reason.  the movies actually bore me tbh.

 

 

for all the hype though, and the money behind it with disney and the time they took to make the new movie and the evolution of technology since Episode 3 ...  i expected more than a rehashed Episode 4.

 

seriously, if Disney was writing a paper on Star Wars, they'd be kicked out of school for plagiarism.

 

 

its like when they were story boarding this movie the discussion went like this

 

 

alright, i have an idea!

 

instead of having the main protagonist and antagonist be Father and Son, we'll have them be Cousins.

 

And we'll make the protagonists mentor be her uncle.

 

and, heres the big twist, we'll have the main antagonist be his SON and we'll have the SON kill the FATHER!

 

and it gets better! instead of searching for yoda to make everything kick ass again, they'll search for Luke Skywalker; which will be the main protagonists father!

 

and to top it all off, the icing on the cake ....  we'll make the Death Star BIGGER (because Bigger is better) into a DEATH PLANET  and we all know the bad guys never evolve their security so we'll keep the same way they destroyed the Death Star in the Planet and have the movie end with the good guys blowing it up.  because who doesn't love a BIG ASS MICHAEL BAY EXPLOSION.

 

 

 

and then disney was all like

 

[SinisterDeath]

we went and saw it.

 

all i can say is  ....  meh

 

 

granted, i've never been a star wars fan; its the one fandom that i've tried multiple times to get into and just cant for some reason.  the movies actually bore me tbh.

 

 

for all the hype though, and the money behind it with disney and the time they took to make the new movie and the evolution of technology since Episode 3 ...  i expected more than a rehashed Episode 4.

 

seriously, if Disney was writing a paper on Star Wars, they'd be kicked out of school for plagiarism.

 

 

its like when they were story boarding this movie the discussion went like this

 

 

alright, i have an idea!

 

instead of having the main protagonist and antagonist be Father and Son, we'll have them be Cousins.

 

And we'll make the protagonists mentor be her uncle.

 

and, heres the big twist, we'll have the main antagonist be his SON and we'll have the SON kill the FATHER!

 

and it gets better! instead of searching for yoda to make everything kick ass again, they'll search for Luke Skywalker; which will be the main protagonists father!

 

and to top it all off, the icing on the cake ....  we'll make the Death Star BIGGER (because Bigger is better) into a DEATH PLANET  and we all know the bad guys never evolve their security so we'll keep the same way they destroyed the Death Star in the Planet and have the movie end with the good guys blowing it up.  because who doesn't love a BIG ASS MICHAEL BAY EXPLOSION.

 

 

 

and then disney was all like

 

You do know, that the exact same thing can be said about the prequel trilogy, and the original trilogy, right? 

The Prequel trilogy was all about mirroring the original trilogy. Rise and Fall of order to chaos, chaos to order, Dark to Light, Light to Dark.

 

On the bright side, it was just over 2 hours, so at least it wasn't a 3-4 hour movie like some of them! 

 

I actually did enjoy it as an Action/Adventure film. I'm hoping Episode 8 will flesh out a more gripping story that's less action centric.

 

 

As an aside, the leading theories out there, are that Snoke (the big bad hologram guy) = Darth Plagueis.

I can't help but wonder if it's not actually Palpatine... or at the very least that Snoke (Plagueis?) isn't just another 'pawn' of an even bigger baddie. (No one for a second thought Kylo Ren = Sith Master)

 

One thing that drew my attention on Snoke, was his forehead scars.

 

They oddly matched the location of Vader's head wound/scars. But that's probably just a red-herring.

We never saw Palpatine's body, but he's most assuredly space dust. I'm sure we'll get some kind of backstory as to the origins of Snoke & his Head Scars. (Luke?)

 

And did I hear mention from Solo, that luke was looking towards the First Jedi Temple for information on when the dark and light sides of the force were united?

 

[thegakrules]

I loved it, im a big star wars fan and it was what i was hoping for.  It answered to a degree some of the theories i had and it really makes excited for episode 8!! 

 

My son wasnt as excited as i was for the movie and he loved it!

[Nolder]

 

 

It was...ok.

Which is miles above anything that could be said about the prequel trilogy so there's that.

Visuals were good if overused (I'm tired of sand planets and lush green planets and ice planets), acting was acceptable but not great, story was very lacking.

 

Let's start with Finn. Ok he's a clone (UH? What happened to Jengo Fett clones? This is a new clone? Ok...) and he's been trained from birth to fight and kill for the empire The First Order. Only when he gets to his first battle he's horrified and doesn't want to kill. That's very weird but hey I guess stories are made of the abnormal right? So ok he doesn't want to kill and wants to escape the Order. It is pretty random.

 

Let's move on to The First Order since we're on the subject. Who are they? Are they the remnants of the Empire or something different? I mean they're using Star Destroyers, TIE fighters, super duper Death Stars, Storm Troopers, etc so they must be right? Of course that isn't explained.

 

And The Resistance...who are they resisting? They can't be the Rebel Alliance because they went on to form the New Republic...which the Order destroyed? Maybe? Or maybe they just blew up a few planets it's not clear again. I'm confused why Leia is a general in the Resistance though. Like if it's supposed to be the Rebel's why did they change their name? They could have dropped the Rebel part and just been the Alliance right? Why does the New Republic aid the Resistance? Do they have any authority over them or is it a symbiotic relationship?

 

Ok moving on...Han Solo. Why was he there? Tracking the Falcon? Kind of a big coincidence this guy seems to have it for years and years and year and finally when someone steals it Han and Chewie are in the area to take it back right?

 

Ray...I think he backstory is purposely vague and more will be revealed later but I want to note that in a movie already lacking a lot of back story and common sense this bugged me more than it probably should have. Oh and on that note that Star Destroyer she's looting? It should be way more smashed up if it crashed into the planet from space. Hell it should have probably exploded. That is ONLY there for cool visuals and completely defies any semblance of reality. Anyway even if they wanted to be vague on the back story could we at least have understood her current situation. Like was she some kind of indentured servant to that guy who was paying her for scrap or...?

 

Continuing on with Ray. I can accept that she's just learning to use the force randomly without training what I cannot abide is that the very first thing she does is a Jedi Mind Trick. I mean how would she even know to do that? If she had force pushed the guy or did some cool flip or something to show she was getting powers it would have made a lot more sense it was just a callback to the original movie. And her fight with the bad guy? Wow ok how was she able to beat a trained sith? Like he was lucky to be alive after fighting her even though she's completely untrained in both the force and lightsaber combat. Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

It's things like that that kept me from really enjoying the movie.

But...it was ok. I guess.

 

 

[Daruya]

I don't believe that Finn is a Clone. During the movie, there was an explanation that he was one of many children that were taken from their families and were trained/programmed as soldiers from a very early age. 

 

There were some interesting theories put forward in a Star Wars discussion going on in the White Tower (Tar Valon board).  Look for the thread with spoilers in the title.

 

One was that Rey was given some initial training by Luke when she was very young (and is possibly his daughter) but that he modified/erased her memories before he left to protect her.

 

Not having read any of the follow-on books (or any Star Wars books, actually) where the heck did Snoke come from?

[Nolder]

I thought he said he was a clone?

I'll have to rewatch it sometime.

 

Snoke is the new emperor guy right?

No clue.

 

I don't mind that they're going off canon from the books.

I would like it to make a bit more sense though.

Like I said, for example, The Resistance and Rebel Alliance and Republic? What's their relationship?

I don't care if the New Republic never becomes a thing in the films but at least explain how we got from the end of Return of the Jedi to Force Awakens you know?

[SinisterDeath]

Let's start with Finn. Ok he's a clone (UH? What happened to Jengo Fett clones? This is a new clone? Ok...)

From what I've read on the matter, he's not a clone rather he's the product of the One Order that kidnaps children and reconditions them basically from infancy. They never get to know their parents, and are only given a number. Course if he were a clone, he could be a Fett clone... But then Solo shoulda recognized him so that kills that idea.

Note: What's his hitler like guy telling either Kylo Ren or Snoke, that they should get back into clone armies.

 

 

 

The First Order. Only when he gets to his first battle he's horrified and doesn't want to kill. That's very weird but hey I guess stories are made of the abnormal right? So ok he doesn't want to kill and wants to escape the Order. It is pretty random.

It is odd. It was mentioned by the female trooper, that this was his first infraction. But it was also his first combat experience to.

Kylo Ren seemed to have sensed his switch to the light side... Which might imply that Fin maybe a force user.

 

 

 

Let's move on to The First Order since we're on the subject. Who are they? Are they the remnants of the Empire or something different? I mean they're using Star Destroyers, TIE fighters, super duper Death Stars, Storm Troopers, etc so they must be right? Of course that isn't explained.

Yep. They are. It's implied that when the empire was defeated Snoke wrestled control of the Empire and renamed the remnants of the empire The First Order.

 

 

 

And The Resistance...who are they resisting? They can't be the Rebel Alliance because they went on to form the New Republic...which the Order destroyed? Maybe? Or maybe they just blew up a few planets it's not clear again. I'm confused why Leia is a general in the Resistance though. Like if it's supposed to be the Rebel's why did they change their name? They could have dropped the Rebel part and just been the Alliance right? Why does the New Republic aid the Resistance? Do they have any authority over them or is it a symbiotic relationship?

The New Republic / First Order are the two major political forces in the Galaxy. 

So the Empire = Rome, It was a Republic, after the Empire's fall, it broke into many pieces, the Republic formed, as did the First Order. Leia, probably set up the Republic, and left allowing other's to lead in her place.

She then probably set up the Resistance, to fight the First Order, which was just the Empire in disguise.

Republic probably aids the Resistance, because they knew the First Order was up to no good.

 

 

 

Ok moving on...Han Solo. Why was he there? Tracking the Falcon? Kind of a big coincidence this guy seems to have it for years and years and year and finally when someone steals it Han and Chewie are in the area to take it back right?

As Obiwan said, there are no coincidences.

He was in the area. Doing that smuggling mission.

His sensors picked it up and he had a major woody for getting his ship back.

It's almost implied that the Falcon was majorly bugged as he might have literally spotted the Falcon from the other side of the galaxy. We also don't know exactly how long they were sitting there for.... 

And with Ray being a force user, it's entirely possible (probable) that the force guided her to Solo.

 

 

 

Ray...I think he backstory is purposely vague and more will be revealed later but I want to note that in a movie already lacking a lot of back story and common sense this bugged me more than it probably should have. Oh and on that note that Star Destroyer she's looting? It should be way more smashed up if it crashed into the planet from space. Hell it should have probably exploded. That is ONLY there for cool visuals and completely defies any semblance of reality. Anyway even if they wanted to be vague on the back story could we at least have understood her current situation. Like was she some kind of indentured servant to that guy who was paying her for scrap or...?

Some theorists are stating that the scrap guy was the one holding her back when she was left there as a child.

As for the destroyer stuff... that's why this is Science Fantasy.

 

 

 

Continuing on with Ray. I can accept that she's just learning to use the force randomly without training what I cannot abide is that the very first thing she does is a Jedi Mind Trick. I mean how would she even know to do that? If she had force pushed the guy or did some cool flip or something to show she was getting powers it would have made a lot more sense it was just a callback to the original movie. And her fight with the bad guy? Wow ok how was she able to beat a trained sith? Like he was lucky to be alive after fighting her even though she's completely untrained in both the force and lightsaber combat. Makes no sense whatsoever.

It's possible she's heard stories of what the Jedi can do, so she knew the story of how Obi-wan tricked the stormtroopers when he said "these are not the droids you are looking for".

As to her beating him.. I guess it comes down to Arrogance on his part, and already being kind-of-wounded.

[SinisterDeath]

Not having read any of the follow-on books (or any Star Wars books, actually) where the heck did Snoke come from?

 

The Expanded Universe novels have been branded no longer canon with disney's acquisition of Star Wars.

 

Snoke is thought to be Darth Plagueis... He was Palpatine's Master, and was thought to have figured out how to overcome death itself.

[Lanthirrhos]

No clones (Source: Movie VII. No Empire as such (Also no Emperor). First Order is pretty much the anti-Luke/Jedi group (Source: JJ Interviews, and obvious hardware/tech connections in Movie VII). Of course they hate the Republic too (Source: Movie VII). Expect to hear about a ceasefire and deescalation of conflict where the Imperial remnants are left in the gutter... eventually leading to a Post-WWI---Pre-WWII Germany(Source: JJ Interview, basing First Order off of Nazis)-like state where one side is victorious and the other is downtrodden, leading to a militaristic revival with a vendetta built upon re-establishing previous powerbases. What is the Republic going to do without starting another war? (Keep in mind the deescalation of violence, specifically their fleets being reduced to about 10% of its original size. Source: Aftermath; New Canon) Fund a Resistence movement that isn't directly affiliated with them (Source: Movie VII, Assuming Hux is correct in that assertion).

 

As for some of the plot questions... I didn't find it all that hard to follow. It's not too weird for soldiers to decide that battle/killing isn't for them. Especially if your first battle is killing a lot of random unarmed/captured people to get to the few fighters... or a small droid. Plus-- The Force Awakens. It is doing things.

 

How does Rey learn to use powers so quickly (she already knew how to fight)? The Force is awakening. You could use this to explain any number of fortuitous things that happen in the movie--like why is Han there? Because the Force. Because Plot. Where else would he be? Not in the Republic. He didn't like the responsibility in the first place (Source: Movies IV--VI), let alone after his son betrayed Luke. He's probably not going to hang around the Core Republic systems, because he's a smuggler. The job doesn't mesh well with the galactic authority... outer rim scrap planets seem a pretty likely place as any, especially if he had an idea where the Falcon should be... and he clearly did (Source: Movie VII, knew some of the previous owners and some sensor data). Plus the Force. Plus Plot. I'm not sure why it is worth questioning?

 

Next... Kylo Ren isn't a Sith. (The word has never been used to describe him or the First Order. It also implies a certain belief system the he clearly has not embraced as of yet) Dark Jedi at best, for want of a better term. Not even particularly well trained. He is pretty good at making things stop in place, mind probing, and picking on people without the Force--or who aren't well trained themselves (ie all those dead "jedi" from the past). You never once see him take on a powerful opponent, so lets not assume that he is some sort of Darth Vader 2.0. He is a conflicted individual who doesn't even have conviction in his chosen path, of course he didn't win. He can't even use the Dark Side properly because he is still drawn to the light. Simple as that. Note his lack of mad cackling like the Emperor, and the lack of dead lackeys, like Vader. He isn't very Dark Sidey now is he? And wounded with a weapon that flipped stormtroopers around like toys. Yeah. He lost. Go figure.

 

Who says that the Star Destroyer crashed? Why would it have exploded? If anything, the force of a crash would have caused the ship to disintegrate and tear itself apart... not explode. Most things in "reality" do not typically explode when they crash. But if we're going to think way too hard about this, lets do it properly and not make assumptions. 1) Star Destroyer Largely Intact (not crumpled, not exploded) 2) Star Destroyer is not in an impact crater. 3) Star destroyer is placed on a ridge of sand (implying a largely intact structure under the sand for it to build up against) 4) We don't need to go farther. Conclusion: No crash. Emergency landing during battle. Mystery solved... again, I'm not sure why we had to over analyze that.

 

Not convinced that Snoke is Pelagius, Vader, or the Emperor. Pretty sure JJ gave an interview saying that Snoke had no connection to Palpatine in the slightest. But that could just be JJ being JJ. Fair enough. However, considering he has been divorcing this trilogy from words like "Empire" and "Sith", I think that it is a safe bet that he is telling the truth. Plus, Han and Leia talk about Snoke like he is a known quantity to them, not some age old Sith Lord.

 

Now that that is all out of the way, we can focus on the real issues with the movie--Who the heck cast Hux? And why did they think that he could pull that off? Maybe he'll grow on me... but he doesn't particularly look like a general to me. He did OK on the rhetoric I suppose, but even that felt a bit off. Hard to take him seriously.

 

And last... I really wish we hadn't followed the story beats of A New Hope so closely. No more super weapons, no more blowing up the shield generator, and no more "We're about to get blown up but we blew them up first".

 

I get why they did it. I do. It's reassuring to know that they are looking at what worked in Star Wars. It's celebrating the return of Star Wars and the old characters by re-inventing the original. (I loved the little call backs btw, I just disliked the larger plot similarity). It's playing on your nostalgia to get you invested in the 1)Movie-so they can kick you in the teeth with it near the end; and 2)New Trilogy so that next time, when they can do something new and different, it is less risky because they have credit built up with the first movie. And let me be clear: I believe that they calculated that move for exactly that reason. They had a lot of pressure to get this one right--new owners, new directors, new characters, new trilogy--so they played it safe to engender good will and trust in the fans. Now they can move on and do something new and cool without people losing their minds. I fully expect to see bolder content in the future.

 

It's just a shame for me, because I felt that the Episode IV rehash was the worst part. The movie was great when doing it's own thing. At least the Budget Death Star makes sense for a smaller empire. Less money to excavate a planet and use (perhaps too literally) solar energy to power the weapon as opposed to generating their own power like the Death Star... but whatever. I digress. I don't think we'll be seeing anything else like that in the future.

 

Oh, one last thing. I don't think the familial relationship between the characters is a "twist" of the movie. The trilogy was ALWAYS going to focus on the Skywalker family, and nothing changed when Disney and JJ took over. You aren't supposed to not know. You aren't supposed to be surprised. That's what the main story of Star Wars is. The Skywalkers. It's not a twist. It's the cornerstone of the series. It is a given.

[Nolder]

Next... Kylo Ren isn't a Sith. (The word has never been used to describe him or the First Order. It also implies a certain belief system the he clearly has not embraced as of yet) Dark Jedi at best, for want of a better term. Not even particularly well trained. He is pretty good at making things stop in place, mind probing, and picking on people without the Force--or who aren't well trained themselves (ie all those dead "jedi" from the past). You never once see him take on a powerful opponent, so lets not assume that he is some sort of Darth Vader 2.0. He is a conflicted individual who doesn't even have conviction in his chosen path, of course he didn't win. He can't even use the Dark Side properly because he is still drawn to the light. Simple as that. Note his lack of mad cackling like the Emperor, and the lack of dead lackeys, like Vader. He isn't very Dark Sidey now is he? And wounded with a weapon that flipped stormtroopers around like toys. Yeah. He lost. Go figure.

Well that's kind of what I was getting at. He's the bad guy in this movie. He is supposed to be scary and intimidating.

 

And he entirely fails at that.

[Lanthirrhos]

I don't think he is the bad guy. I didn't get that at all.

[SinisterDeath]

 

 

Not convinced that Snoke is Pelagius, Vader, or the Emperor. Pretty sure JJ gave an interview saying that Snoke had no connection to Palpatine in the slightest. But that could just be JJ being JJ. Fair enough. However, considering he has been divorcing this trilogy from words like "Empire" and "Sith", I think that it is a safe bet that he is telling the truth. Plus, Han and Leia talk about Snoke like he is a known quantity to them, not some age old Sith Lord.

Well, he could be a known entity to them, and still be Plagueis/Palpatine in a new body. We already know they made EU non-canon, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to use ideas from it.

 

 

I don't think he is the bad guy. I didn't get that at all.

 

I'd say he's bad at being a bad guy.

[Lanthirrhos]

All true, although I'd counter that he isn't trying to be a bad guy. Most probably the opposite. Antagonists are great, bad guys are boring. I think they are writing an antagonist. We'll see where that goes eventually.

 

I'm hoping for more than continued reuse of ideas and characters and ideas from previous movies (and even books). I'd be more than happy to never see Palpatine (or Pelagius) again. I'd be happier with the below... which is ludicrous. But goes to show that people see what they want.

 

http://moviepilot.com/posts/3690499

[Nolder]

I absolutely disagree. A hero is only as good as their villain.

[Red2111]

100% agree about the good guy only being as good as their villain is bad.  a horrible villain can ruin a great good guy.

 

 

@ Lanth - main antagonist = bad guy 99.9% of the time.  the antagonist's job is LITERALLY to antagonize the good guy.  he may not be the main bad guy, and he maybe a pawn in the bigger picture, but you're arguing semantics and splitting hairs by trying to make a separation there

 

 

Next... Kylo Ren isn't a Sith. (The word has never been used to describe him or the First Order. It also implies a certain belief system the he clearly has not embraced as of yet) Dark Jedi at best, for want of a better term. Not even particularly well trained. He is pretty good at making things stop in place, mind probing, and picking on people without the Force--or who aren't well trained themselves (ie all those dead "jedi" from the past). You never once see him take on a powerful opponent, so lets not assume that he is some sort of Darth Vader 2.0. He is a conflicted individual who doesn't even have conviction in his chosen path, of course he didn't win. He can't even use the Dark Side properly because he is still drawn to the light. Simple as that. Note his lack of mad cackling like the Emperor, and the lack of dead lackeys, like Vader. He isn't very Dark Sidey now is he? And wounded with a weapon that flipped stormtroopers around like toys. Yeah. He lost. Go figure.

Well that's kind of what I was getting at. He's the bad guy in this movie. He is supposed to be scary and intimidating.
 
And he entirely fails at that.

 

 
 
imo, i think they are trying to turn him into Darth Vadar.  he had the same vibe that Anikan had pre-getting thrown into a Volcano.  now he's going to complete his training, he'll be 100% Darth Vadar.  only instead of a Son giving him his redeeming factor on his death bed, it'll be either his cousin or his mom.

[Nolder]

I agree with that.

This was his final transition to the Dark Side at the end of the movie.

He wasn't full blown evil yet.

 

But because of that the movie lacked a proper villain.

[Red2111]

@ nol - big hologram Thanos wanna be dude said directly at the end "bring him here to complete his training"  he said multiple times through the movie that his training tot he dark side wasn't complete.  what exactly is your beef here??
 
 
gah, you're making me defend this movie you know that right??  this is chess, not checkers.  the movie wasn't trying to say "here ya go, this is your good guys this is your bad guys, theire at full strength now watch as they wrestle in the mud"
 
the movies aim was to introduce the main players in their infancy, to ... i guess or assume, so them progress into their powers later on and become mega bad asses by the 3rd movie  (which is what we saw with Luke in the middle trilogy)

 

Who says that the Star Destroyer crashed? Why would it have exploded? If anything, the force of a crash would have caused the ship to disintegrate and tear itself apart... not explode. Most things in "reality" do not typically explode when they crash. But if we're going to think way too hard about this, lets do it properly and not make assumptions. 1) Star Destroyer Largely Intact (not crumpled, not exploded) 2) Star Destroyer is not in an impact crater. 3) Star destroyer is placed on a ridge of sand (implying a largely intact structure under the sand for it to build up against) 4) We don't need to go farther. Conclusion: No crash. Emergency landing during battle. Mystery solved... again, I'm not sure why we had to over analyze that.

 
you're arguing semantics in this paragraph.  what you're doing here is akin to me saying the sky is Blue and you saying, no the sky is powder blue.
 
 
the main point is that the damn thing was destroyed in the same exact manner (or near enough) as New Hope.  they could have had the good guys win a different way, instead it was lazy and done before. 
 
if you go to the work of creating a new big bad planet destroyer, that destroys stuff in a new, yet very cool way (... i mean sucking up the sun to convert it into an ultra death ray that vaporizes multiple planets at once 0.0  that shit was epic XD )  only to have it have the same defense weakness as the smaller Death Star and for it to be on the surface is just ... weak and unoriginal.
 
and it was a copy of New Hope that they didn't have to do.
 
 
 

Oh, one last thing. I don't think the familial relationship between the characters is a "twist" of the movie. The trilogy was ALWAYS going to focus on the Skywalker family, and nothing changed when Disney and JJ took over. You aren't supposed to not know. You aren't supposed to be surprised. That's what the main story of Star Wars is. The Skywalkers. It's not a twist. It's the cornerstone of the series. It is a given.

again, its not that it wasn't expected, or even a shocker.  neither was Han dieing, as soon as they went back into the planet and Han went where he did i was like "oh hes gonna die just like Obi Wan did .... llllllllllaaaaaaammmmmmeeeeeee"

 

i also enjoyed all the nods to the original, i always do (the reboot for Clash of the Titans made me smile serveral times because of this).  the Bar scene, the Chess Board, the Jedi Mind trick while she was captured ...  and the numerous other ones that seemed to happen like every 5 minutes were all well and good.

 

BUT ...  if it just stayed at nods and not stolen plot points twisted slightly so people wouldn't feel entirely jipped out of money, i'd be fine.   thats not the case though. 

 

 

Han being there was pointless plot wise.  he was the "token death" because they felt they needed to have an "obi wan" motive to give the chick motivation to accept her fate  (which is what Obi Wan's death did for Luke New Hope).   its a stolen plot point that they used because they were too lazy to think of another way to force their main protagonist to accept her fate to save the universe.

 

every single main plot point this movie had was stolen and slightly altered from New Hope; which brings the question as to why even do the damn thing in the first place.

[Nolder]

I'm just saying what I've been saying. I don't understand the problem? Unless you just want the last word then that's fine.

All I'm saying in regards to the bad guy is he wasn't a good bad guy. This was intentional on the films part.

However that choice left the movie wanting for a good bad guy.

 

My point is the movie was weaker overall because of that choice.

Maybe the next two movies will be better for it who knows but all I have to go on is what we've seen so far.

[SinisterDeath]

if you go to the work of creating a new big bad planet destroyer, that destroys stuff in a new, yet very cool way (... i mean sucking up the sun to convert it into an ultra death ray that vaporizes multiple planets at once 0.0  that shit was epic XD )  only to have it have the same defense weakness as the smaller Death Star and for it to be on the surface is just ... weak and unoriginal.

 

and it was a copy of New Hope that they didn't have to do.

 

It actually wasn't the same defense weak spot the death star had.

It wasn't an exhaust port going into the ship's reactor.

Rather, it was an entire structure devoted to storing said energy, and they were only able to even touch the damned thing because of bombs (chewbacka set off) that destroyed major defensive structures within that weakened it enough for them to even do anything.

 

If anything my biggest complaint with the whole thing is why the hell they even need star destroyers when apparently an X-wing is capable of basically taking down an entire ship. >_<

But that's just my beef with small-fighters in Sci-Fi/Fantasy in general....

[Leelou]

 

 

Han being there was pointless plot wise.  he was the "token death" because they felt they needed to have an "obi wan" motive to give the chick motivation to accept her fate  (which is what Obi Wan's death did for Luke New Hope).   its a stolen plot point that they used because they were too lazy to think of another way to force their main protagonist to accept her fate to save the universe.

 

Actually, I'd say Han's death had more to do with Kylo turning more towards the darkside and not being as tempted by the light. Yes, it made Rey pissed off at him, but they both needed it. Vader did not need it in that sense. He just wanted to become the master over Obi Wan and best him. 

[LilyElizabeth]

I'm just going to say that any time Han Solo is on the screen is not wasted time. I can never get enough of looking at him.