Diablo the mafia game!

[Shad_]

Going to bed.

[Zander?]

 

I recognize Pral had some major irl issues come up.  NotBob needs to catch up and show me something.

 

 

 

This is the first post after DL.  If I can maybe offer my 2 cents worth, nothing went terribly wrong for NotBob because it maybe didnt matter to him because he knew both trains were gonna flip town perhaps....  I mean his timing, statements and attempt at seemingly to Derp Clear himself make me wonder if this isnt perhaps the case.  But I'll keep going.

 

 

Posts #932 and Post #936 I already addressed.

 

 

 

From what you did read, do you have any thoughts on Clov?  Do you have any thoughts on um, anyone beyond Bender?

 

Not really.  He's capable with plenty of rationale.  In other words...he lies well.  Just too early to tell at this point.

 

Yates and Zander are two I'm interested in.  Would like your alignment as well. 

 

 

Says its too early to tell with Clov

 

 

 

 

What's your opinion on Tabor?

Undetermined. But I had her at like 60% likely scum with Bender at 95% and Clov at 85%. And the crazy thing is? I can see a scum team of EXACTLY Bender/Clov/Tabs based on interactions and certain posts directed at me.

 

 

I can support a lynch of Bender or Clov

 

 

 

Next post half a day later willing to lynch Clov but really for raisins atp?

 

 

 

I have good feelings about Zander. I kinda had zander as scum in the previous game when everyone was reading him town and it was mainly because of subtle things he was doing like trying to score townie points unnaturally etc. I don't see that subtlety in this game and I am kind of convinced he is town. I don't know much about Blessie's gameplay but I haven't seen anything bad from her so far.

 

Yates also looks fine to me. The argument between yates/zander looks v/v to me.

 

Thane is relatively less involved in the thread. That however is not alignment indicative as he is kind of more involved when he is scum and you can see through his actions. I think he is town in this one based on what he has posted.

 

(I also had AJ as town because hsi reads matched quite with mine. But, that is moot anyway now. We know who AJ was)

 

Clov and BFG are somewhere in the middle but leaning towards town. I have a hard time reading Clov but I have noticed that he questions a lot as scum. In this game however, he is more focused on giving out his reads straightforwards. But, that is something which looks too straightfoward. 

 

As to BFG, I didn't like her reading dice as town and reading clov as scum. However, her posts have been good and looks like the town BFG that I know.

 

 

Taborline, Notbob and Tress are null. The vote by Tress on Lenlo at the end of the game was the only thing that needs to be looked at,. Frankly, there was no need for the vote and could have done by both town or scum. Want to read her more before arriving at conclusions. Taborline, I don't have an opinion yet. Again, she is a new player and I need to see more. Notbob, well, you know why.

 

Shad and Dice are my top contenders for scum. Shad has felt odd for me since the beginning. I know he has claimed seer but I am not buying that. Posts like this and this looks like he was nudguing without willing to take a firm stand on Lenlo initially. I am more or less sure he is scum

 

I was kind of uncomfortable with dice earlier in the game. Similar to the earlier game, I see him coming occassionally and posting, just as if to show he is in the game. And, that feeling is why I think he is scum. In addition, I see soem nudges like this.

 

Okay, I know you said later that you haven't FULLY caught up, but explain to me why you think Yates and Zander are likely v/v?  I think this is considerably more likely than w/w (I swear to god, if you two are doing a Lenlo-Zander thing I'm never talking to either of you again.  Not even kidding), but I don't know if both sides would just be hounding one another the way they have if they were ever trying to discern each other's alignment.  I fully understand that Yates is convinced Zander is guaranteed scum, and maybe he is, but barring a red check I don't understand how you don't stop to consider the merits of things they say.  Same can be said for Zander.  Do you think the two of them are just so bullheaded they're locked in their positions?

 

I don't get your point on Thane at all.  I've played with him as scum...one time?... and he wasn't overly active that game at all.  Beyond that, if he's MORE active and you can see through him, how is his play this game not alignment indicative?

 

Null pile makes perfect sense and I have no issues with anything you've said there.

 

I sort of disagree with your scum suspects, Dice moreso than Shad, but I especially disagree with you reasoning on Shad.  I don't see how you can interpret that first post you linked as him nudging Lenlo.  I would argue that asking another player on someone's typical behavior is a pro-town move.  Yeah, any decent scum can DO it, but the move itself comes from a townie mentality of trying to figure out how to read somebody.  The latter is slightly more "nudgey" but I don't see why it can't just be him trying to get somebody else to make an opinion.  Do you disagree with this?

 

 

If it helps...I could lynch Thane here...what says you?

 

 

 

Now Thane wth?

 

 

 

This stuff just sets my teeth on edge.  And the fact he's basically sheep off of my top scum read Yates is not boding well for him.

[Guest]

Morning people.

 

So this is a bit bizarre. Still want to focus attention on the fact that we believe yates is scum. This I not because he lied. I mean, as shad said, mafia is a game of telling the truth, you know?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blom, have you spectated any games before or is this kind of a leap into the dark for you?

 

I followed that previous one... what was it called... euhm. I'll check and get back to you

Are you scum?

No.

 

Mafia is a game of telling the truth.  You wouldn't lie to me now, would you?

 

I really dislike lying, Shad. You'll learn this about me in time.

Also wanted to say: I miss your anime girly picture.

 

 

 

It's rather because we have no doubt that he's lying, at least about us. We are town.

 

Yes, we focused on little things like percentages. That's because every single thing he does rings wolf. I tried seeing him as town but it just won't. There's too many times that he focuses on exploiting these little things himself. If you're town, Yates, please play at least better in the next game we're together? Like... try to be townie? Because you're wolf this game.

 

I'm not asking everyone to vote Yates. I understand if you want to try believing his fake cop claim. I understand the fear. I saw it in the only game I read - matrix. In Matrix, lenlo claimed a town role and managed to survive as scum because of that. At least temporarily. I want to add that this probably adds to my distrust of yates this game. He lied about being cop. See both ours or even clov's arguments as to why. He's wrong about us. We are town. If he's lying about those two things, he's probably wrong about clov too.

[Zander?]

Ok.  I suppose I didn't read those comments through the same lens.  But what about the trade-off?

 

it doesn't seem likely at first but I also didn't think he would use the attempt of saying he thought Alanna peeked him in Star Wars either after  she dies when it was against the general town consensus either. Couple that with the bouncing around about peeks and with the stuff Ive been mentioning. And the fact that it is Yates and he's capable of some pretty ballsy moves and Gambits  Even the thought of it being unlikely is not enough to sway me off of him.  I don't think he;s the seer and I made the pretty obv. so Im not swayed by the Yates would NEVER do that idea at all.

[Yates]

If you're town, Yates, please play at least better in the next game we're together? Like... try to be townie? Because you're wolf this game.

Thank you for your constructive criticism. I will certainly ruminate on your suggestion in the dead thread.

 

In the mean time...

 

What was your case on Yates scum starting Day 2, again?

 

Either of you can answer. It should be fairly easy given you've had since early day 1 to compile this case. And it has GOT to be a doozy of a case since you have me as lock wolf. I mean... shoot... if you've caught me the least you could do is tell me how, You know... in the spirit of helping me in future games as with your suggestion to play better?

[seph]

Vote Count day 2

 

 

 

 

 

Bender (3/11) Yates, NotBob, shadooh

Yates (2/11) Clov, Bender

 

Clov (1/11) Pralaya

 

Not voting

 

Dice, Tress, Thane, Tab, BFG

[Yates]

I don't think he;s the seer and I made the pretty obv.

What if I hard confirmed that my peek was on Clov? Do you have Clov as 100% Town? Do you feel as though he is acting like "Clov being Clov" in this game? How do you feel about his buddying up of your slot? You don't seem to have a lot of direct interaction with each other with anything of substance.

 

Or what if I just dropped the act all together and said - "geez Zander you know what? You're right. I'm faking this role claim just to get the lynch I want." Would that, in your estimation, be out of character for Yates Town? Have you never seen me gambit before? I ask because I feel as though this is something both you and Clov would actually EXPECT from me but for some bizarre reason that remains to be explained neither of you have left that possibility open.

 

But really you can skip all of this. It's just me babbling because I'm caught scum according to you and Besie. And I know I'm grasping at straws. And I'm lying. And I'm playing badly if I'm Town. And I get all that so all of the above is moot if I'm caught scum. So really? You should just hammer home my lynch by addressing one tiny thing. I'm not sure if anyone has asked you this but let me try asking for myself...

 

What was your case on Yates scum starting Day 2, again?

[Yates]

The above is important because my scum partner Dice has clearly suggest he is going to vote for you.

And my scum partner Tress has indicated she has a Town peek on my so she isn't going to vote for me which means she is going to vote for you.

And my scum partner Pral has suggested he believes I'm the cop so he is likely going to change his vote to you once he is caught up prior to end of day.

 

Oh.  Wait.  That's one too many scum partners.  Oh well.  As we've established; math is hard, right?  lolololololololololololololol

 

I'm pretty sure BFG votes you to test my claim and my case.  I could be wrong but every indication suggested she would be voting for you once she had read through to confirm some stuff.

 

So that leaves Tab, who thinks we are both scum, apparently?  So I'm not sure why she would care which order we are lynched in.  So I feel like she is going to vote for you.

 

And finally Thane is there to do whatever.  Because really?  With 11 alive I only need 6 to lynch.  And it appears as though I have a minimum of 8.

 

So if I'm obv Scum you need to change that.  I think the best way is to make that case, bro.  And you have to do better than "Yates is lying!" because everyone already knows that Yates lying is not an alignment indicative thing.  I lie in mafia games.  It's what I do.  You have won that argument already.

[Guest]

Yates, I think we've established that looking at you since d1 is just as important as looking at you since d2. That's the main reason we were upset with NB, after all. Or... would you say that you only decided to get your mafia game in line, starting d2? You're scum.

 

Oh, right... no. We did not put you as mafia with all those others. Maybe one or two of them. You're making up things now by fabricating who we thunk is scum. That's going a bit low, isn't it? A bit gross? Does is really matter who the others are when we have determined you as scum right now? Are you trying to draw attention away from yourself? It's sad, Yates. I hope others can see how hard you're trying to prove your clearly fake innocence.

[Guest]

Think*****

[Zander?]

 

I don't think he;s the seer and I made the pretty obv.

What if I hard confirmed that my peek was on Clov? Do you have Clov as 100% Town? Do you feel as though he is acting like "Clov being Clov" in this game? How do you feel about his buddying up of your slot? You don't seem to have a lot of direct interaction with each other with anything of substance.

 

Or what if I just dropped the act all together and said - "geez Zander you know what? You're right. I'm faking this role claim just to get the lynch I want." Would that, in your estimation, be out of character for Yates Town? Have you never seen me gambit before? I ask because I feel as though this is something both you and Clov would actually EXPECT from me but for some bizarre reason that remains to be explained neither of you have left that possibility open.

 

But really you can skip all of this. It's just me babbling because I'm caught scum according to you and Besie. And I know I'm grasping at straws. And I'm lying. And I'm playing badly if I'm Town. And I get all that so all of the above is moot if I'm caught scum. So really? You should just hammer home my lynch by addressing one tiny thing. I'm not sure if anyone has asked you this but let me try asking for myself...

 

What was your case on Yates scum starting Day 2, again?

 

 

ok here we go.like my case is here the thread Yates the same way i normally do it. but lets do it.

 

 

 

 

It's like you guys may be trying to go fishing and that's not sitting well with me at all...

More like I'm the crotchety old fish trying to teach these young whipper snappers [get it? snapper? HA!] how to roundhouse kick a hook instead of swallowing it.

 

 

 

Sorry brother but you're not doing anything to make me feel better about my concerns.  You ignored my point about you leaving out AJ's peek while responding to stuff afterwards, your responses are seemingly coming off as nonchalant or brushing them aside instead of trying to help explain it out and address the actual concerns and it seems like you ARE role fishing.

 

[v] Yates [/v]

 

 

 

While I WAS WRONG about that you didn't respond to my AJ question before the vote still doesn't change the fact that you leaving it out was still pinging me man.  Which I feel was pretty self evident.  And the rest I feel speaks for itself and I've mentioned numerous times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You ignored my point about you leaving out AJ's peek while responding to stuff afterwards

No I didn't. I'm telling you that you have no point.

 

You said: "But Yates! You forgot about something that happened 8 pages ago, what about that?!! AH HA!"

 

I said: "8 pages ago it wasn't a trend. 6 pages later it became a trend. So I quoted the most recent people to join the trend in order to address the trend in general.

 

I'm not sure how I can be more clear? Maybe I can give you a lazy answer like; I've played enough games with AJ that I feel comfortable letting him do what he's doing because I'm not worried about AJ providing proper cover? But while that's all true, that's not the actual reason.

 

...your responses are seemingly coming off as nonchalant or brushing them aside instead of trying to help explain it out and address the actual concerns...

My responses are nonchalant. Not really sure how much effort you expect me to put in to responses to questions that, from my pov, are pretty dumb at best and really aren't alignment resolving anyway.

 

...and it seems like you ARE role fishing.

This is probably the dumbest thing you've ever said to me. Please explain how asking someone to firm up a read/peek is in anyway even remotely role fishing? This is a turd. You should feel like a turd.

 

 

 

I'm on my mobile between meetings so I won't quote.

 

 

Bessie can you explain why you're ok with Zanders vote on Yates, because I don't see why from your posts above.

 

Interesting thought on Lenlo, but I got the impression from the DT that he didn't really enjoy the bussing in that game and my (admittedly not great) recollection from that game was that the bussing was initiated by Zander and Lenlo just got caught up by it. I do want to check/compare tone from Ragnarok, but that will probably have to wait till I'm home again.

 

 

Ok thanks Besie, was asking because you said 'for this reason' implying something in your post that made you agree, but I didn't see anything. So its just a phrasing issue? I pretty much agree with the read and Zander explained it far more eloquently than me. I'm curious as to your opinions, what do you think about AJ? You say Lenlo and AJ, but don't mention AJ in that spoiler

 

Bluntly it's going to take a while to get a read on you, first time players have a decent record of fooling people as mafia and I don't have town meta for Zander.

 

 

Regarding Dice, I was thinking about this and wondering if I need to be more cautious. As mafia in Matrix he had conviction on a 'out of game' reason, he's managed it with game mechanics and people (Tommy) fake claiming. I don't think I've ever seen him fake conviction in a read yet as mafia, so I'm inclined still to say town. Is it a certain read, no, but I'm willing to roll with it for now. I will be watching to see if he disappears at a later stage though :P

 

Thane, yeah I still haven't had time to sit down and write what I had earlier, but weird is the overall vibe. Can you explain what you mean about Clov? Everything you quoted is either null or positive.

 

 

 

 

No, nobody is OBLIGATED to give an explanation, but he had been asked about it and DID offer up a reason - just a vibe.  I'm saying that I assumed if there was more to it than that, he would have said so.  If he could have backed it up with reasoning for the vibes, he likely would have included it when he replied to Tab.

Maybe. There are loads of reasons he might, but I dont wanna argue for him.

 

Clov, whats your take on Yates while im tryin to figure out this god forsaken search function?

 

 

Pretty much completely even.  Both of the posts from Shad and Blesie were quite obvious in their purpose, so I saw absolutely no reason for him to question them, and I didn't think Zander's point about him ignoring AJ's peek was bad.  I think Yates could see them as being either unconvincing/possibly inaccurate though, so I'm not ruling out the possibility he was trying to be "helpful".

 

If deadline was in five minutes, I would lynch him just to save Bender, but numbers alone would make me expect him to flip town.

 

 

 

Funny thing is Yates that I'm not the only one who feels this way.  Strange, maybe were all dumb? 

 

Can you post that EXACT post you made addressing my "not including AJ's peek" post BEFORE I posted my Vote on you?

 

As far as not responding to "what I find is dumb from PoV".  Seems like a cop out scum response to me.  I'd like to think Town!Yates knows what I'm like and would work WITH me to address my concerns as opposed to just saying that my line of thinking was dumb (you may include that as a joke as well....lolololol) but I FEEL like you would still work with me to help me get there.

 

And as far as the role fishing part. Again to me, i feel like you should know when someone is providing seer cover man.  It's as simple as that.  Like it's not a huge deal asking to shore up reads but according to what I got from your "Seer Cover 101" link, everyone who did pretty much followed what you yourself put there. So I can hope you'd at least try to understand why from my PoV that seems strange.  Also again the fact you left out AJ's peek is factoring into my read on this.

 

I hope you can at least try and understand where I'm coming from with this Instead of just saying I'm dumb brother.

 

 

 

Again I'm not the only one who though that Yates atp.  Now if I can make a guess here I think you're gonna respond with "Well Clov's your scum partner" But I'm pretty sure not everyone feels that way and as well BFG who I believe (?) you're town reading or at least not in your PoE  as well.  So really it shouldn't be as far fetched, stupid or wrong as you make it out to be.  And before you say something like shouldn't need to reference other people or follow or whatever them crap, the point I'm making is clear and I cant see how YOU would think this was something OFF coming from me as either alignment.  So like iyo is this line of thought and post something that COULDN'T come from Town!Zander?  Anyone else can feel free to weigh in on this please.

 

 

 

It feels like you're being overly defensive, hon.

With all due respect, do you know what I look like when I'm being overly defensive? Also, care to list the "others" where I'm being what you characterize as "overly defensive?"

 

I ask these questions because acting "defensive" is often a crutch accusation thrown around that is actually completely worthless. A good Towny has every bit as much at stake as scum. Why would I not defend myself against what I perceive as garbage logic and a fake excuse for a vote, in your opinion?

 

 

Obv she doesn't Yates and obv you know this and obv that matters squat because she's a new player and that's the feel SHE is getting from reading your responses hence why she said it.  So why say that at all man?

 

And obv no one ever as any alignment ever gets defensive at all........

 

 

 

 

 

Zander - since it will be a while until I can finish my catch up I need you to answer some questions real quick:

 

1. When have I ever been lynched Day 1 and things ended well for Town?

2. Given your stated opinion on Clov, when did I become a Day 1 lynch candidate for you - EVER?

3. Have you ever actually caught scum role fishing?

 

I won't even get into the OMGUS accusation thing. Because that fake "tell" has been disproven time and again.

 

1, What does that matter if I think you're a wolf?  Basically why does that matter at all?

2. My stated opinion on Clov?  Please provide me that post and while we on providing posts, please provide me with the one YOU stated you answer my why leave AJ out before I voted cause if you did I  must have missed it.

3. Nope but there's a first time for everything right?

 

And again with the dismissing of something else..."Defensiveness" is a  crutch. "OMGUS" is disproven.  Dude if these things weren't real and didn't happen or matter THEY WOULD NOT BE USED IN MAFIA GAMES.  So they must have some sort of value right?

 

 

And again stuff like these last 2 posts are not coming from a Town!Yates PoV imo.  I honestly feel like Town!Yates works with me man.  You just brushing stuff aside and saying well IT CAN'T PERIOD, I WOULDN'T DO THAT PERIOD, COMMON MAFIA OCCURRENCES LIKE OMGUS AND DEFENSIVENESS MEAN NOTHING Like REALLY come on man.  That's just plain bad.

 

And really at this point your case against me is my case against.  You keep saying I never moved off or adjusted my read of you.  Well I think a somewhat decent case could be made about you doing the exact same thing imo.

 

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

Good luck. Hope this is right.

 

 

And ofc there is this horrible switch from your top scum read to a town read.  Which I think you claimed as something like to see who reacted or whatever it was you were slinging.

 

 

And I mean there's also other reasons why I have my scum read of on you:

 

I think you weird comments about me being mean to NotBob and Dice were very strange coming from you.  First off neither one mentioned it themselves, they were certainly not the worse comments I have ever posted and I don't feel like I was  out of line.  Also factor in that you've said stuff to me like some my posts have been dumb and idiotic and I'm a turd.  Obv not big deals but again its strange you called me out for it while doing it yourself.

 

I straight up don't believe your claim.  I've made the crystal clear.  And that was made evident and I posted where I thought the real seer was and adjusted my reads accordingly.  The bouncing around on who you peeked and the reasons why and my plan was this then that, no I peeked Zander no I peeked Clov its more likely I peeked this guy or that.  When in my response to Shad numerous reasons why it made me cringe and not believe you.

 

Then there's they maybe im just pretending to be the cop but could be VT stuff as well

 

Then there's that complete and total BS crap about faking being drunk that you know was just plain wrong Yates and something I just would not ever do man.

 

 

So all in all man I just straight up think you're scum. And ofc there yours blatant refusal to accept just about any of my argument is coming from a Town!Zander PoV. at all.  There's enough players here that no that'ss not the case here otherwise you'd have more votes on me.

[Taborline]

How long do we have before EOD? 

[Pralaya]

Pral - there lies a very real possibility that I'm VT faking my cop claim and that I'm simply more certain of Bender being scum and my READ on Clov is predicated on Bender being scum. So please vote Bender so I can maintain this illusion. If Zander flips Town? Hold me as responsible as if I claimed the peek was on him.

if you are actually VT and this is a gambit, I would be very disappointed. I would understand if you did this as scum but as VT?

[Pralaya]

ok i screwed up the quote   this is from  pral

 

 

A) I post when i post i am not going over the activity argument AGAIN.

 

B) Some nudges like what? give examples of where and who i nudged this game?

 

C) Yates I think we found the third scum   this post just feels off for me. i dont know what it is but something about it bugs me

A. Activity was just an observation. Not a definite reason why I feel you are scum

B. I did mention the example

C. So, a gut feeling. Fine

[Yates]

FINALLY!!!!

 

Okay.  So let me see if I can boil this wall of text down to bullet points since that's what I was really looking for.  I'll go ahead and type up your case on me for you.  Pleasde let me know if I miss anything or have something wrong.

 

1. You think I'm scummy because when I made my post about peeks I didn't include AJ's peek.

2. You think I never addressed why I left AJ's peek out.

3. Role fishing.

4. You think I responded to your points in a nonchalant manner.

5. You think Clov and BFG agree with the above and are thus justified.

6. You didn't like that I questioned Besie on what "overly defensive" was after she accused me of being over defensive.

Side bar:

You said this, "And obv no one ever as any alignment ever gets defensive at all........"

Why did you make that statement and include the Big Bang sarcasm gif?

7. You don't know why I asked you when I became a day 1 lynch for Town!Zander.

8. You don't know why I asked you about your overall impression of me as a player.

9. You think I haven't adjusted my read on you with new information.

10. You don't understand why I switched my vote to Lenlo with 8 minutes left in the day.

11. You didn't like me questioning your openly hostile approach to Dice or NotBob.

12. You think that my calling your logic dumb is the same as the insulting behavior I accused you of.

 

End of Day 1 stuff.

 

Day 2 reasons:

 

1. You don't believe my claim.

2. You don't understand why I would leave open the possibility of backing out of my claim.

3. You don't like that I brought up the possibility of you fake drunk posting.

4. You don't think Town!Yates would refuse to accept the possibility that any of this is coming from a Town!Zander.

 

Is that about it?  Did I miss anything?  Did I misinterpret anything?  I just want to be sure.  Because, as you say, Town!Yates absolutely wants to work with you if you are Town.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

I have an idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's lynch Bender.

[Yates]

While I wait for confirmation; I can go ahead and address these points.

 

1.  I don't see why this was ever a talking point in the first place, tbh. 

2. I believe I have clearly articulated why I left AJ's peek out.  If anyone besides you needs me to explain it again I will.

3. The only role a cop can fish for is scum.  So in light of my claim?  This point is likely moot.  Even if I were VT?  I'm not sure how asking people to provide better cover is ever characterized as role fishing.

4. I did respond in a nonchalant manner.  I did brush aside points that I thought were obviously false because I assumed people reading the thread in context would see where you were making an "error" in interpretation.  Is that atypical of a Yates Town game?  I just don't even see how this could be characterized as scummy either.

5a. I don't know what BFG was agreeing to in that statement, to be fair.  BFG?  Do you still feel this way?

5b. Clov: "I think Yates could see them as being either unconvincing/possibly inaccurate though, so I'm not ruling out the possibility he was trying to be 'helpful.'"

6a. Mafia is a two way street. If someone accuses you of something you need to be able to respond in kind. If anyone else think I was being OVERLY tough on Besie they can bring it up and I will address it. But you and I both know that it isn't scummy to question the intentions of your accuser. That's pretty much how this game works on it's most fundamental level.

6b. Also, ftr, you seem to be agreeing that someone being "overly defensive" is NOT an alignment tell. Besie accused ME of being overly defensive. I didn't accuse her of anything at that point. So your gif actually proves my point - to your other head.

7. Sorry but I don't believe you vote for me, Clov, or Cory on Day 1 if you are Town unless you have some HUGE smoking gun. Instead it is WAY more likely that you decided to big game hunt in an attempt to be able to sell yourself as someone who would never big game hunt on day 1 as scum. It also gives you a great excuse to not be on a mislynch because you know my wagon will never go through on Day 1.

8. As with Clov it was important to establish a baseline understanding on what you thought my mafia game was like. It was important because you were accusing me of trivial missteps and ploys [role fishing, OMGUS, overly defensive, etc] that I don't think you can associate with my play as EITHER alignment. That should have suggested to you that you were merely MISINTERPRETING my actions/motivations/posts.

9. I literally pulled teeth all of Day 1 trying to get you to respond to me in a coherent and reasonable manner. You gave me literally nothing with which to reassess your slot. In fact, I would say you more often than not doubled down and/or dug in on points of questionable value.

10. If anyone else is confused about my Lenlo vote, in light of posts I have made this day phase, I will be happy to address it. I think it's clear that it was a gambit and I think it's clear that it helped me find a 2nd scum.

11. I will let NB and Dice address this themselves. I think both questioned your attitude/motives. I could probably quote them each but that's not my fight.

12. If anyone else thinks calling arguments dumb is the same as saying "get back to me when you are ever as good as me" [paraphrasing your post to Dice] is the same I will be happy to explain the difference. But I think everyone else can make this assessment for themselves.

 

So there is literally nothing here that I would ever BELIEVE would cause Town!Zander to maintain a scum read on Yates. This is especially true in light of the fact you would have had to reevaluate your "case" on me after you were soundly disproven in the court of public opinion in thread and were forced to apologize. Thus your morning of Day 2 vote made no logical sense outside of carrying over a fake read from day 1 that you had forgotten to adjust.

 

Day 2 stuff:

1. You don't believe my claim. Wow. Shocker. Do you want me to pull up a couple of quotes from other games where you lol about how I gambit?

2. If anyone else needs me to explain why I would leave an out as either VT or Cop I will be happy to explain. Otherwise I am going to assume the motivation is evident.

3. Who brought up the drunk posting garbage on Day 2? It wasn't me. It was your partner Besie. And she seemed to be using it to explain behaviors. As soon as she did that? I felt like it was fair game. Because, again, you have to be able to address stuff people bring up in the game. I'm not even using it as a reason to lynch you. And I dropped it because it was a gross thing to bring in to the game in the first place and I felt gross for needing to address it. And the fact that you are bringing it back up again is gross because you know this should have never been brought up in the first place and no one comes out of an argument about this angle shooty stuff looking clean.

4. I tried? I did respond to Shad wrt one interaction. But really the biggest thing was that neither of you ever brought this case forward despite me LITERALLY BEGGING FOR IT. How could I assume this was ever coming from a Town slot if you gave me no frame of reference? You gave me no opportunity to understand your stated perspective.

[seph]

9 hours and 36 mins to dl

[Pralaya]

Zander, yates is not going to get lynched today. With that in mind, how do you want to proceed?

[dicetosser1]

 

 

 

I think you weird comments about me being mean to NotBob and Dice were very strange coming from you.  First off neither one mentioned it themselves, they were certainly not the worse comments I have ever posted and I don't feel like I was  out of line.  Also factor in that you've said stuff to me like some my posts have been dumb and idiotic and I'm a turd.  Obv not big deals but again its strange you called me out for it while doing it yourself.

 

 

 

 

Id suggest that if you want to lie about what someone did or said to you that you wait for that person to be dead. Because I ABSOLUTELY had a go at you for your scum hunt comment. AJ even REQUOTED it!

 

vote Bender

[Taborline]

9 hours and 36 mins to dl

 

Thank you, Seph.

 

[v]Bender[/v]

[seph]

Vote Count day 2

 

 

 

Bender (5/11) Yates, NotBob, shadooh, Dice, Tab

Yates (2/11) Clov, Bender

 

Clov (1/11) Pralaya

 

Not voting

Tress, Thane, BFG

[Yates]

[Zander?]

 

 

 

I think you weird comments about me being mean to NotBob and Dice were very strange coming from you.  First off neither one mentioned it themselves, they were certainly not the worse comments I have ever posted and I don't feel like I was  out of line.  Also factor in that you've said stuff to me like some my posts have been dumb and idiotic and I'm a turd.  Obv not big deals but again its strange you called me out for it while doing it yourself.

 

 

 

 

Id suggest that if you want to lie about what someone did or said to you that you wait for that person to be dead. Because I ABSOLUTELY had a go at you for your scum hunt comment. AJ even REQUOTED it!

 

vote Bender

 

 

 

 

And as far as me not game solving...when you do more then I do in a game to solve then you can make that comment Dice.

Rude.

 

 

 

 

I need to finish reading the Yates/Zander thing again

It should really be a fairly quick read. It essentially boils down to this:

 

Zander claimed to have taken issue with my quoting of the two most recent "seer cover" posts but not including ALL previous peeks, specifically AJ's.

I told him I was just making a general point.

He then accused me of role fishing.

I explained that I wasn't role fishing - I was suggesting that people need to do a better job of shoring up their "peeks."

Zander accused me of dodging his point about ignoring AJ.

I explained that from my pov it was covered when I said I was trying to make a larger point wrt seer cover.

Bessie said I looked overly defensive.

I was perplexed by this accusation so I asked her to extrapolate on her basis for saying this and if she thought that me being defensive was = to me being scummy.

Zander [and now Clov?] took exception to my addressing Bessie's concerns - because she is new??

I believe that Zander is scum and voting me because he thinks people will say "scum Zander will never try voting Town Yates on Day 1!" [which already happened but via the Bessie head]

I don't believe that Town Zander ever votes for Unknown Alignment Yates day 1 for the same reason Town Zander doesn't vote Clov day 1 or expect Town Clov to be alive D3 ever.

At the very least, there is a zero percent chance Town Zander thinks Yates is scum for role fishing.

There was some other ad homonym stuff like OMGUS and a really low blow wrt Dice but that's sort of tangential to the current thread of argument.

 

Finally - I am concerned that Zander has not reevaluated his position on ANY of his accusations in light of all evidence to the contrary.

 

 

 

This is what that is in reference to Dice.  Nothing to do with AJ;s seer cover.  So I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[Zander?]

Zander, yates is not going to get lynched today. With that in mind, how do you want to proceed?

 

Not Bob

 

But there's still a couple more I'd like to look into. Like Tress and Tab