Ragnarok Game Thread - Game Over, Town Wins!

[BFG]

Anyway, redoing some thoughts.

 

Scum: John Snow (he's been gone for a long time and I'd like him to post. Feel like he might hammer us during the deadline. Or has he already done that? Prolly.)

BFG (even after all that kerfluffle I threw at her, she remained calm and continued to try to see a situation in which we weren't Mafia/Loki. Also, Sooh didn't look good with sheeping the thread read of Celeste/me as scum.)

Sili (yeah. I'm suspicious of him because he votes us yet sort of defends us against others by mentioning my meta. Regardless what I flip, he'll look good. Don't like that.)

Mish (really don't like her suspicions of Talya and other town. Also don't like her insisting on having her way or calling everyone who doesn't listen not town.)

 

Loki: Lenlo (cute. I don't see how Loki thing is a survivor wincon. Being the last man standing sounds like SK wincon. It would be best to have a gun to be the last man standing.)

 

the rest: town

Lol? Why wouldn't I remain calm, and why would that be alignment indicative?

 

So far you've garnered a lot of -ve attention and I'm not sure why. I don't really have an opinion on your alignment yet and will keep poking until I do.

 

This is what I have on you so far:

 

Mish, who is looking ~good to me says that you guys talk about Loki a lot and if that's true then last nights conversation looks bad.

 

Other than that it's people saying you're ignoring questions, which again, makes last night interesting in that you were both answering mine.

 

Sili's argument is mildly frustrating in as much as his vote is based off impressions, that I don't yet have a clue where they came from or based on what.

 

Early game Celeste was accused of soft defending Ocicat, but when I read it it read like she was offering a meta statement that agreed that pressure should be put on him as it makes it easier to read. She also took a meta statement of Roderick into account in a way that could be soft defence, but if she's a meta girl could be nothing more than what's stated.

 

 

 

But in general I don't understand your reads? Do you literally pick the 4/5 worst looking people (in your opinion) and call everyone else town? You'd already stated a -ve on me (for liking Cory's reads) yet had me as town because you liked my responses in thread. Now you have me as mafia because you don't like my responses in thread.

 

You move Tabor/Tress out of your mafia reads and replace with Snow and I, but Snow didn't post last night?

[BFG]

EBWOP

 

Stupid autocorrect

 

Eldrick not Roderick

[BFG]

I need to run for work, I may make it on at lunch if not I'll see you later

[Niniel]

Hi guys. I kinda disappeared. Sorry about that. 

 

Mish, I think the people who were calling me feisty were in fact surprised by it, as I'm usually not in games. 

 

I do play differently here. Exactly why I can't tell you, except I tend to have good games and bad games. It depends a lot on how much energy I have to put into it I guess. 

 

Anyway. I think so far I feel pretty good about Sili, Lenlo, Tress, Mish, Eldrick, Taboo and JS.

 

I need to reread and ISO Tina, Talya and Leelou, as they are impossible to read for me usually. 

 

I'm even less sure about WishLeste and Ocicat. However, they might be this low in my list because I don't know them very well. 

 

And Verb is definitely bottom of my list. 

 

Come Monday Verb really needs to get some work done if he's Town. Because just saying "I'm town because" isn't cutting it for me. 

 

 

Going to try to get some ISOs done today, but I need to finish a report first. 

 

Hi BFG! It would be good to see what you think about Sooh´s list.

 

 

 

Now over to WishCeleste:

 

*That "claim" was really not good. First, I don´t think they or Talya (or anyone else) can assume anything about their roles since not everyone have a role. Second, how on earth could they think they could read anything out of their action that they don´t know if they have, when there are redirections. (Two people have said so today.) 

* Lenlo - you haven´t liked that I have nothing to say about you, but I really like your questioning/responces to WishCeleste. And I have no idea how they could make Lenlo´s post into a Loki read. It seems to be all made up, just like the "claim".

* It looks like their change of reads all of a sudden is mostly based on who suspects them, but to me it looks like a way to make it harder for us to read any connections to other mafia if/once they turn out mafia.

 

 

[unvote]

 

[v] WishCeleste [/v]

 

 

I don´t know the vc, maybe they are already hammered? 

[Niniel]

I think this is the VC. 

 

 

Leelou (1) - Snow

WishCeleste (6) - Mish, Sili, Tab, Lenlo, Leelou, Tina

Verb (1) - Eldrick

 

 

So no, I didn´t hammer 

[Sili Quirrels]

Sili's argument is mildly frustrating in as much as his vote is based off impressions, that I don't yet have a clue where they came from or based on what.

 

Do you mean the possible angle shoot that sooh quits when mafia?

 

Well I am not 100% saying she absconds when she is mafia, but she did desert twice. I was her teammate both times, though, so maybe I was the problem. lol

[Sili Quirrels]

Early game Celeste was accused of soft defending Ocicat, but when I read it it read like she was offering a meta statement that agreed that pressure should be put on him as it makes it easier to read. She also took a meta statement of Roderick into account in a way that could be soft defence, but if she's a meta girl could be nothing more than what's stated.

 

I understand what she wanted to be looking to be doing. That's okay. What I don't like is it was pointless, ultimately because there was no substance behind it. Seems like she's lying on some level to me, or saying things just cause.

[Sili Quirrels]

So no, I don't feel comfortable putting Celeste down to only foot-in-mouth. Sometimes foot-in-mouth is a symptom of a bigger problem.

[Eldrick4221]

Oy. 21 multiquotes. so much to discuss today, apparently.

[Eldrick4221]

Ok. time to trim that into DM-acceptable length of replies.

 

First and foremost

 

[unvote]

[v]Wishleste[/v]

 

My reasonings will be in the following WoTs

 

(Bonus: No more hydras)

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

Looking up "disruptive town roles" to try and get a feel for what you're worried about.
 
So remembering this exists:

 

• Vote Thief - You can steal another player's vote for the next day. That player will have one fewer vote than normal, and you will have one more.

I don't think Loki as a character would fit this role especially if that was to ensure his survival. I also don't see this role used often.

 

 

I was asking Talya about lack of NA submission, because I saw the lack of doing so as possibly because she was Loki, but I didn't say that. That's not what you discussed, though,  you tried to connect this with the sample "disruptive role" I posted. I posted it cuz I liked the role, and wanted to remember it.

 

 

 

What I'm not getting is that some people refuse to answer people's posts and only pick and choose what they like answering, and they're calling Celeste out for, well, doing the same thing?

 

 

The irony. I've seen a lot of it this game. How is it this obvious and you guys aren't seeing it? I'm always super easy to lynch when I'm town.

 

I believe I'm a roleblocker of some sort because I did some research on my character. I targeted John Snow N1.

 

Remember how there were only two kills N1? One probably from town vig (who was Dice), and the other from either Loki/Mafia.

 

If I'm roleblocker, then I must have prevented a kill if both Loki and Mafia have NKs. John Snow is either Loki or Mafia.

 

This has what has been eating away at me. No one pointed that out, and it was so obvious to me. I've also been busy with friends, so I've had no time to post. RL is falling apart, and I'm kind of unstable atm, but Celeste hasn't been helping us look any more town, and I don't want to lose the ability I believe I can use for town.

 

@Sili: Earlier, I said that your posts made so much sense. I was being sarcastic. Could you read between the lines? I ISO'd you when you contradicted yourself. Are you that self-confident?

 

 

 

^lol, Other than not liking Sili?

Lol.

 

I do like Sili personally, but I'm not liking what he's doing atm.

 

So far, my reads are contingent on as far as I can tell, observable results. I've changed my mind a lot since my last reads list.

 

Top scum: John Snow. Read above explanation. Atm idk if I was redirected, but if he had a kill, then I stopped it.

Scummy: Tress, Mish, Sili, Taborline

Town: Talya, Sooh/BFG, Lenlo, Leelou, Ocicat, Eldrick, Tina, Verbal

 

Some things I don't like: Mish's 'lynch my top two lynch candidates or you're scum'. Mish's desperate pushing of the theory that Celeste and I are Loki (XD).

Taborline's lurking and posting only to drop a vote on Celeste and me gives me a really bad feeling. It's too easy. Too convenient. :/

Sili's strong stance that we were town and then suddenly swapping his vote 'for reactions' while the thread was shifting towards us being the top WTL.

Tress, Talya, and Sooh using Cory's reads list to determine their own reads, but not even using the most updated version of that reads list.

 

 

Process of elimination says that Sooh, Verbal, Ocicat and Eldrick are town, when I before believed they were scum/null. Liking BFG's calmness and good analysis so far.

 

 

 

If you are a roleblocker, as your research apparently makes you think, then you didn't get a result back. You have no way of knowing if you are or not. And I have reason to believe all the roles got jumbled last night. We won't know for sure until tonight, which could easily mean you didn't really target JS in the first place with whatever you do.

 

This case on JS is epically weak.

 

 

 

 

 

OMG

 

LENLO = LOKI

 

THIS PUSHING YIELDED SOME RESULTS

 

Even if I haven't done anything else helpful for town, I at least achieved this.

That means that my reads list changes again.

 

Loki= Lenlo

Scum= Sili, Taborline, Mish, Tress

Town= Sooh/BFG, Tina, Eldrick, Leelou, Ocicat, Verbal

 

Probably means that there's a chance I'm vanilla. Meh. Oh well, that means that I don't need to survive. Eh.

 

 

How do you have Verbal as town? 

 

 

The town list read to me as "everyone else". I got the feeling Verb was there by PoE, as in "my nulls are town if these are the mafia"

 

I don't agree with the list. At all. But that's my take on why Verb is listed as town for her.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, that doesn't make any sense. Wish clearly thinks Verb is scum, and is pushing for his lynch. Verb should be bottom of her list.

[Eldrick4221]

Here are some observations I made that I would like explained, so I can better read people by knowing how they think.

 

 

Wishleste [wishtree/celeste hydra] - picking and choosing what they answer, coming off as they don't really care how they are seen. The post that really stuck out was Celeste's answer to Mish. It didn't even touch upon most of Mish's concerns. 

 

 

Underlined. Why is this a bad thing? IMO only mafia should worry about how they are seen. It's town's job to hunt mafia and mafia's job to "appear town".

 

 

 

 

 

 

And hi BFG! It's nice to play with you again 

Hi Tabor!

What's going on?

 

 
Trying not to boil, it's so hot here! How are you?

 

I'm good :) watching Iron Man 2 and wondering where everyone is

 

 
Playing WoW >.>

 

Why were you worried about misclearing people in your reads list earlier (before you've resolved your mafia reads)?

 

 

+1. Want to hear this answer.

 

 

 

 

I disagree with wish on some of her town reads and scum reads. I think Tayla is scum still along with Verb. I also think taborline is town. Also I'm not that new to mafia as I seem.

I don't have much of an opinion on how new you are or not, besides which we've had a succession of excellent noob's so don't really give leeway for that anyway (any more).Why do you think Talya and Verb are mafia?

 

Interactions with people seem sparse or odd in tone. The mindset doesn't seem to very town like. I figure out my reads through the tone or interactions I have with people. I don't find speculation to be a scum thing like some people think. I also think some of the reasons for voting me are weak. Also I don't get the "they seem to know too much" reason that I saw some where.

 

Can you give specific examples of this?

Whose reasons for voting you are weak? You have Tabor as town, yet she's voting you, so Mish and Sili?

 

 

This, in itself, isn't a problem. I don't see an issue with thinking someone is town if they are voting you. Town is commonly wrong. That's how mislynches happen.

 

Posted too soon. To the last quote - do you want me to vote you? Does Oci have a better role than you? Oci has been my main suspect so far and so I vote him. Might change today though.

 

 

About Oci: I looked at Tress´ chart again. A lot of people suspected Oci yesterday. It was only Celeste that townread him. But today most people don´t mention him at all. I find that strange. 

 

Why is it strange that people are noticing other people? 'Most people' includes both town and mafia. Everyone is paying attention to more than one person. And a few people have mentioned him (myself included). I don't see what you're getting at here.

 

[Eldrick4221]

I'm disappointed in you Sili. I thought you were town. now I'm not so sure.

 

 

Sili's argument is mildly frustrating in as much as his vote is based off impressions, that I don't yet have a clue where they came from or based on what.

 

Do you mean the possible angle shoot that sooh quits when mafia?

 

Well I am not 100% saying she absconds when she is mafia, but she did desert twice. I was her teammate both times, though, so maybe I was the problem. lol

 

 

Weird post that doesn't look good for you. Are you doing it again?

 

 

 

 

 

Mish

Tina

Song

JS

Eldrick

 

Lenlo

Talya

Lee

Ocicat

 

Taborline

 

BFG

Verbal

Celeste

 

 

ebwop

 

 

So, compared the 2 cuz of your EBWOP. The only difference I can see is Lenlo moved down to Light green for you. Reasons?

 

 

 

How about we chill on theory crafting Loki and focus on lynching? Theory crafting with no info is useless imo and only distracts.

Well, we can probably ascertain tomorrow what the likelyhood is ocicat is loki based on how many are killed. if only one person dies, then likely dice targetted loki and it backfired. or if 2 ppl die then we might assume john snow is loki because celeste claims to be a rb.

 

 

I really don't like this post. It has a lot of assumptions to how things are working, and even if it's true, it tells Loki, so he could easily not submit a kill (if he has one), to make you suspect JS.

 

 

 

 

 

Not even about me, just her belief in astronomically low odds, then attempting to turn it on me and call me scum/loki and everything else going on. All in the name of surviving cause she believes they have a town power role.

 

You found none of that even worth commenting on?

No, and who am I to presume to know their role?

 

Celeste and Wish are desperate, but desperation is a trait of all players. Is it wolfy and arbitrary? A little, I think, but no point to put a nail in the coffin before their time is up.

 

I disagree, but each their own

 

Dunno why Wisheste would think Lenlo is loki if they roleblocked John Snow...

Because they are talking out their bum.

 

I wouldn't peg Lenlo as loki. I'd peg him as mafia trying to divert unwarranted attention.

I wouldnt say im diverting anything. I was very upfront and direct with my opinion that what they were saying was just garbage.

 

You're not just upfront, you are yelling it to the four winds.

 

 

Am I the only one that thinks this didn't answer the problem? Sili thinks Lenlo is trying to avoid unwarranted attention, but doesn't push the problem, just agrees with how Lenlo describes what he's doing.

 

 

[Eldrick4221]

 

I like Taborline's case on Oci.  Easy to follow and clear/concise points.  I'm a fan.

 

 

 

 

Don't like the Pral wagon, specifically the last 2 votes.  Ok with Cory and Leelou on it, as I'm differing degrees of town on them atm.
 
Pral (4) - KeyBOOSE, Leelou, Ocicat, Sooh

I know you don't like the wagon, but what about Oci and Sooh do you not like?

 

 

Looks like low hanging fruit, and I think Taborline made some good points on Oci.  Sooh I have nothing on  - I literally don't remember any of her posts.  No offense, Sooh!  I'm just not picking up anything from my memory on her this game.

 

So yeah, could probably vote Ocicat.  Maybe Talya because I'm in the mood for OMGUS, too.  hehe

 

 

 

 

What do you think of the others voting you?

 

I like Taborline and Sili's vote, but I could do without the rest, lol.

 

 

 

 

I thought you didn't like Sili's unless I'm reading wrong, lol.

What do you like about them?

 

I said I didn't like the case, but I like the poking & prodding.  As for Taborline, I've already posted about how I liked her ISO of Ocicat and agreed with her thought process.  For somebody who says they are looking for my content, you seem to be completely missing the little content I've provided - both in the last couple of days, btw.

 

 

It actually makes me slightly uncomfortable that you bring my name up several times, given that few others do in that kind of way, and I don't really like being the reason why someone who I find scummy is voting a certain way when there were plenty of other people talking about Oci as well. Especially the little comment about you liking my vote for you, shouldn't I have voted Oci? 

 

 

I didn't notice that. Good catch. I don't like how much he was agreeing with you either. I believe the term is sheeping?

 

 

 

VOTE COUNT

 

Ocicat (3) - Tina, Dice, Verbal

Pral (7) - Leelou, Ocicat, Sooh, Lenlo, WishLESTE, John Snow, Eldrick

Verbal (5) - Talya, Songstress, Sili, KeyBOOSE, Taborline
WishLeste (1) - Mish

Not voting (2):  Pralaya

9 to lynch

DEADLINE IS NOON EASTERN (GMT - 4) ON WEDNESDAY. No Majority = No lynch

Correh last reads list.

 

Dark greens: Lenlo, Tress, Mish, John Snow

 

Light towns: me, Dice, Leelou, Sooh, Taborline

 

Nulls: Tina, Ocicat, Talya, Eldrick

 

Scum list: Pral and Verb.

 

 

Cory's view color coded lynch list is a point against Verb. That's all I see from this.

 

 

 

[Eldrick4221]

Sorry for the WoT spam. Like I said, lots to discuss today.

 

Sili has moved down to light town for me.

Lenlo has gained Loki equity, for thinking Loki could be survivor. It just doesn't make sense.

 

What if- a theory- loki reflects attacks. Therefore dice puts loki's name in, and loki kills dice.

 

This theory also fits the theme. Loki could be a mirror.

 

Slot of these Loki theories on who is who seems pretty loose imo.

Can someone get them in full? Like whole arguement?

 

My theories on who could be Loki don't have substance because I have no idea how he is working in this game. I have decided to look for him the same way I look for scum, in the sense of looking for people that are being too careful with their words.

 

Survivors have to achieve a similar wincon with even less powers. Doesn't stop them

 

I have NEVER seen a survivor that had the wincon of "last man standing". survivor is typically "be alive at the end". Sometimes they have bonuses to their role, (active NA, BPV, etc) but I don't see how you could think Loki's wincon could mean survivor. SK makes a lot more sense than survivor.

 

And they have no guarantee that they are correct!

I got no info back, for all I know I could be freaking gunsmith or some other obscure role that never gets used.

 

Most roles don't get info back. they just do stuff. Plenty of these are commonly used roles. Doc is a good example of this.

 

 

[BFG]

On mobile so I won't quote.

 

@Eldrick, the question was the whole thing, who were voting them with weak reasons, since she had Tabor as town, so was she reading Sili and Mish as voting with weak reasons?

[BFG]

@Sili in a generic sense I don't like your angle shooting Sooh but it's easily demonstrably false. She's stayed in games as mafia and subbed out of games as town.

 

That post was all to do with Wishtree Celeste.

 

There seem to be 3 arguments against them, Mish doesn't like that they keep talking about Loki.

 

Most other reasons are that they don't answer questions, except they were answering them last night. Or non specific stuff that I haven't read yet. It's frustrating that I don't understand the 'big' read related talking point at the moment.

 

Your post earlier about Celeste and Ocicat is the clearest I remember reading so far and makes a lot more sense :)

[Eldrick4221]

It's bugging me that I didn't know for sure what the VC was at. I knew I wouldn't sleep not knowing.

 

Last Official VC

Vote Count
Ocicat (1) - Tina
Tina (1) - Leelou
Leelou (1) - John Snow
WishLeste (3) - Mish, sili, Taborline
Verbal (2) - WishLESTE, Eldrick
8 to Lynch

 

Votes since then:

 

 

Well crap

[unvote][v]Wishlete [/v]

 

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Wishleste[/v]

 

 

 

Hi guys. I kinda disappeared. Sorry about that. 

 

Mish, I think the people who were calling me feisty were in fact surprised by it, as I'm usually not in games. 

 

I do play differently here. Exactly why I can't tell you, except I tend to have good games and bad games. It depends a lot on how much energy I have to put into it I guess. 

 

Anyway. I think so far I feel pretty good about Sili, Lenlo, Tress, Mish, Eldrick, Taboo and JS.

 

I need to reread and ISO Tina, Talya and Leelou, as they are impossible to read for me usually. 

 

I'm even less sure about WishLeste and Ocicat. However, they might be this low in my list because I don't know them very well. 

 

And Verb is definitely bottom of my list. 

 

Come Monday Verb really needs to get some work done if he's Town. Because just saying "I'm town because" isn't cutting it for me. 

 

 

Going to try to get some ISOs done today, but I need to finish a report first. 

 

Hi BFG! It would be good to see what you think about Sooh´s list.

 

 

 

Now over to WishCeleste:

 

*That "claim" was really not good. First, I don´t think they or Talya (or anyone else) can assume anything about their roles since not everyone have a role. Second, how on earth could they think they could read anything out of their action that they don´t know if they have, when there are redirections. (Two people have said so today.) 

* Lenlo - you haven´t liked that I have nothing to say about you, but I really like your questioning/responces to WishCeleste. And I have no idea how they could make Lenlo´s post into a Loki read. It seems to be all made up, just like the "claim".

* It looks like their change of reads all of a sudden is mostly based on who suspects them, but to me it looks like a way to make it harder for us to read any connections to other mafia if/once they turn out mafia.

 

 

[unvote]

 

[v] WishCeleste [/v]

 

 

I don´t know the vc, maybe they are already hammered? 

 

 

 

Ok. time to trim that into DM-acceptable length of replies.

 

First and foremost

 

[unvote]

[v]Wishleste[/v]

 

My reasonings will be in the following WoTs

 

(Bonus: No more hydras)

 

 

 

Unofficial Current VC

Vote Count
Leelou (1) - John Snow
WishLeste (7) - Mish, sili, Taborline, Lenlo, Leelou, Tina, Eldrick
Verbal (2) - WishLESTE
8 to Lynch

 

Wishleste at L-1

[michellem]

FFS DM JUST MESSED UP ALL MY QUOTES AND I GOTTA GO BACK AND GET THEM.

 

FUDGE THIS SH*T. I'M *THIS* CLOSE TO RAGEQUITTING OVER WISH AND CELESTE'S COMPLETE DISREAGRD FOR GOOD PLAY. IM SO FREAKING PISSED OFF. CAN SOMEONE PLZ JUST HAMMER THEM SO I CAN MAYBE HAVE SOME HOPE OF CONTINUING THIS GAME.

 

Mod approved edit for pg13 reasons.

[Eldrick4221]

 

FFS DM JUST MESSED UP ALL MY QUOTES AND I GOTTA GO BACK AND GET THEM.

FUDGE THIS SH*T. I'M *THIS* CLOSE TO RAGEQUITTING OVER WISH AND CELESTE'S COMPLETE DISREAGRD FOR GOOD PLAY. IM SO FREAKING PISSED OFF. CAN SOMEONE PLZ JUST HAMMER THEM SO I CAN MAYBE HAVE SOME HOPE OF CONTINUING THIS GAME.


Mod approved edit for pg13 reasons.

 

That's why I copy to clipboard first.

 

Mod approved edit for quoting PG 13 edit

[Kivam]

 

 

Vote Count

 

Leelou (1) - John Snow

WishLeste (7) - Mish, sili, Taborline, Lenlo, Leelou, Tina, Eldrick

Verbal (1) - WishLESTE

8 to Lynch

[Eldrick4221]

I get the feeling you just copied my VC. I forgot to change Verb back to 1 lol.

[Celeste]

I'm trying to answer you guys. My play style isn't perfect. I honestly don't get the reasons against me. I'm just playing the game the way I play.

 

@Mish you may be getting annoyed by this but stop thinking that I am disregarding good play.

[Lenlo]

 

Are you talking to me? Cause im not sure what this is aimed at/talking about.

 

@Lenlo, yes to you. You are taking this business waaay too seriously for someone who seems to think Celeste is mafia.

Oh be quiet. You can't tell you've never been frustrated at someone's complete disregard for a game before.

 

Eld I was just throwing it out initially as an example of just how many parts of their RB scenario were completely unknowable.

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone Loki is a survivor

[Songstress]

Mish. PG-13 dear.